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Posted: 12/14/2003 5:47:12 AM EDT
I know it’s been brought up before, but maybe someone with some different or better advice will have something to offer this time…

What is the best tool to use to get behind the upper’s locking lugs to remove carbon?

I’ve heard about the chamber cleaning brush (in fact I use one), but unless you have one permanently attached to a cleaning rod, you can really only spin the thing one way. Otherwise it will unscrew itself from the rod. I’m not sure how well that brush cleans anything other than the chamber anyhow.

I’ve heard about Sinclair Intl.’s tool. But that little swab thing doesn’t seem like it would be abrasive enough to remove a bad case of carbon.

Lastly, one of the forum members here suggested wrapping a patch around a properly angled dental pick to reach behind the lugs and scrape. Anyone tried that? Does anyone believe they have had good luck with any of these methods, or do you do something that works better than what I’ve mentioned?
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 5:57:42 AM EDT
I've never had a big "Carbon" build up problem that far back.

But yes, It definitely gets gunked up.  I just use the usual chamber brush, then follow up with some yoga like contorsions with q-tips.

A good tool that would hold a patch and allow you to clean back in there would be nice.
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 6:12:00 AM EDT
I don't have much trouble cleaning the lockup area (lugs/grooves). If you're seeing a lot of carbon buildup you might try (more?) CLP as a preventative. It works for me.
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 6:16:15 AM EDT
I have the Sinclair tool and am very happy with it, and it does get stuff left behind with other methods of cleaning.  But unless you have alot of ARs or just must have all the bells and whistles its uneccessary.
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 7:04:31 AM EDT
What's a Sinclair tool?

Gotta have new tool!
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 10:02:33 AM EDT
I bet R2D2 had a sweet robotic attachment to make short work of the job!
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 11:03:22 AM EDT
http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=search&item=14-925&type=store
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 12:01:25 PM EDT
I use the chamber brush to loosen up powder residue and (assuming if I’m feeling industrious) I then swab the residue up with the Sinclair tool.

Some folks prefer to flush the loosened up residue out with brake cleaner or such.

And some folks just leave it there.    
Link Posted: 12/14/2003 12:58:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Robertesq1:
http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=search&item=14-925&type=store
View Quote


Thanx. Gonna add that to my Christmas list.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:20:36 PM EDT
Slip 2000 makes a Carbon Cutter product that will disolve this carbon and you will then be able to wipe it away. works better then any of the other nasty cleaners out there. Give it a try. They are sending out free samples of it if you e-mail them and tell them what your doing. You can also see it at http//:slip2000/carboncutter.html or www.slip2000.com

crisco
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 4:56:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 199:
And some folks just leave it there.    
View Quote


I Shot some guys COLT SBR at a rifle class...   And that thing had the most gunk I've ever seen in the lock up area.  you could have spooned it out.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:17:29 PM EDT
Check this out... [url]www.slip2000.com/carboncutter.html[/url]. I got a free sample and although I don't own an AR, (stupid CA) I've used it on my other guns. Works like a charm.
Link Posted: 12/16/2003 9:33:21 PM EDT
Does Slip2000 hert chrome?
Link Posted: 12/17/2003 4:54:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/17/2003 4:54:53 AM EDT by Firepower-MPC]
Originally Posted By Mr_D:
What is the best tool to use to get behind the upper’s locking lugs to remove carbon?
View Quote

[url]http://deweyrods.com/cgi-bin/ccp5/cp-app.cgi?usr=DEWEY74874&pg=prod&ref=M16&cat=M16_AR15&catstr=HOME:M16_AR15[/url]

Without a doubt. Does it ALL!

Best regards,
George
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 7:10:22 AM EDT
556Cliff,
Slip 2000 Carbon Cutter will not attack or create any problems with the chorme lined bores. It has been being used by a growing number of shooters with chrome lined bores and also on their bolts, bolt carriers and we have had no reports of any problems. Slip 2000 Carbon Cutter was designed to dissolve carbon on contact. You should not leave any blued parts in this product for any extended time. With regular cleaning 15-30 min. is all it takes to clean. (It can fade or remove bluing if left in this product more the 48 hrs) It is a water based cleaner and will strip all oil protection from the metal surface therefore it is recommended to relube with Slip 2000 Lubricant or any other quality lube that will protect against corrosion.

We will send you a small sample to try if you like. Just e-mail us and tell us you saw it here.

Thanks for asking,
Slip 2000

Link Posted: 12/19/2003 12:45:24 PM EDT
E-mail sent!

I can't wait to try this stuff!
Link Posted: 12/19/2003 4:05:46 PM EDT
Email sent ( WarDawg )
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 4:01:23 AM EDT
I get these q-tips from a medical supply store.  They have wood shaft instead of that plastic or paper, and the cotton tip is very secure on it.  Then I break it off about 1/2 inch from the actual tip and hold that piece in a set of hemostats.  It holds very nicely at a 90º angle and now it's very easy to get behind the lugs.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 10:45:07 AM EDT
glennda, thanks for the reply. I have the [i]stuff[/i] to waste carbon, I guess I just needed a good way to get back into that PITA part of the weapon. [>:/]
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 11:16:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2003 11:19:02 AM EDT by Shadowblade]
How clean do you need it to be?  Most carbon buildup is self limiting and as long as you keep things oiled corrosion is not a problem.



I used to be really anal about getting every speck of anything off of my guns after shooting.  Came to the conclusion that it really didn't matter as long as it is oiled.  I still clean, but a quick wipe down and bore clean is all that I can see is really needed.  I certainly wouldn't use anything abrasive - especially around the locking lugs and chamber.
Link Posted: 12/20/2003 5:56:07 PM EDT
i use a military chamber brush and squirt fp-10 onto the brisells and have at it. then one i have scrubbed the whole inside of the upper i flush it with carb cleaner. has worked really well for me so far!
Link Posted: 12/22/2003 7:49:06 PM EDT
Guys,

Here's the gig from the angle I deal with for a living.
Disagree all ya want, agree all ya want.
If it helps great and I'm glad to have helped if not.... it's good to know whatever ya got is working for you.

Barrel extensions catch and hold crud.
That crud causes bolt lug wear and friction.

Bolt lugs are thrust back against extension lugs on firing at tremendus pressure.

Ya gotta keep 'em clean.
Well....reasonably clean.
They will work just fine while a bit dirty, and will do their thing under adverse conditions.
But why beat the hell out of them when you don't have to?

The Military chamber brush is GREAT for getting the carbon and gunk loose.

My guys like to mix Diet Coke, Coffee with Creamer and pizza sauce in there.
Trust me, I LOVE the Military chamber brush and wear the hell out of them.

From there ya gotta get the loosened crap out.

Q-tip Yoga is one thing, Once upon a time I did the same as a simple Jarhead...it took hours.
Screw that!!!!!

Run the Military chamber brush and your favorite solvent.Work it around real good.Make that Brush earn it's .79 cents worth.

Then use a lug tool and get the crap out.

Sinclair makes a BRILLIANT lug tool!!!!!
The stupid thing is a work of art.

But to be Bone simple.......and CHEAP.
Look in the Midway catalog.
"Action/Chamber cleaning tool set"

Part# 109-658 3v83n3

For the whopping sum of $12.26

Get extra swabs.

Been using the same tool for 3 years and it's doing wonderfull.

If you are really cheap(Like me..), wash the swabs in Isopropyl alcohol when done and make them work for 3 or 4 times each.

Adding extra lube,FP-10,CLP, Moose milk/Mouse milk/Yak splooge, just creates a situation where carbon and other crap gets stuck in that area.

Use a thin, light coat in the extension and when done remove the gorp.

Most folks are absolutely SHOCKED at the amount of crud in the barrel extensions of their rifles when it is removed for the first time.

Carbon and crud holds moisture.
Moisture freezes, causes rust, and bad dreams of former drill instructors chasing you through fields of Q-tips.

The best part?
It takes but 30 seconds to get the crap out using a cheap tool.

Just my .02.
Do what ya gotta do.

S-28



Link Posted: 12/27/2003 12:04:52 AM EDT
I removed the forward portion of a chamber brush with a wire cutter. Now I can spear a patch on whats left. It dosen't go into the chamber now, just the barrel extension. Been using it for a couple years now. Time for another.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:10:52 AM EDT
I thought the area behind the bolt locking lugs of the barrel was called the reciever, right?  The muzzle is the most forward part of the rifle, right?

 Anyway, aft of the chamber is an area the G.I. style M-16 chamber brush has bristles for.  I think it's called the bolt lug recess.  I attach the chamber brush to a section of G.I. style cleaning rod (made by Kleen Bore), apply BreakFree-CLP to the brush, and insert it into the chamber.  Then rotate, and alternate insertion, rotation, and removal movements a number of times.  This should loosen deposits.

 Attach a .30 caliber sized bore cleaning patch one third of the way through the slotted attachment of your cleaning rod.  Then wrap the patch around the slotted rod attachment.  Insert this into the chamber and rotate it to wipe the bolt lug recess surfaces clean.  Repeat as necessary with solvent saturated or clean and dry patches.

 The above process works for me.  Maybe I don't shoot as much as other people do between cleanings?

Good luck and enjoy your rifle.
Craig
Link Posted: 12/31/2003 3:00:03 PM EDT
Look in the Midway catalog.
"Action/Chamber cleaning tool set"

Part# 109-658 3v83n3

For the whopping sum of $12.26

Get extra swabs.

I just found it at the Miday USA web for $5.65
Link Posted: 12/31/2003 7:28:56 PM EDT
Just mutilate a standard 6mm bore brush into the desired shape and go to town.

I also mutilate my shotgun brushes and stick them in there.

I'd say it leaves them in inspection order.  Sometimes a patch is required.
Link Posted: 1/3/2004 10:02:44 PM EDT
andyrocky,

!!!!????

I paid 12 bucks and they now are going for 6?!

Figures.

I referenced an old catalog.
My bust!!!!!!!

Grab one and don't look back.
They also work wonders on the bolt rifles they were intended for, for some odd reason.;)

I bought my first one to see if it would work on a Shilen DGA that I traded into.

The stupid thing has been nicknamed "The Tampax tool" by some of my crude associates...
It works.


I gotta get ahold of Midway again.


Thanks!!!!!!
S-28
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