I bought a Beta-C after the ban and it has been sitting around collecting dust.


Should I load the sucker with 100 rounds and keep it for SHTF?


I am not using it for anything else.

I say yeah.  I've had two only used them each once, with no problems.  kinda heavy, but they wouldn't still be around if they didn't work well.  And they wouldn't be making NEW models either (which they just did...).

I'd load it up, but I'd have to go through an awful lot of USGI mags and clips before I needed it for SHTF.

I keep all of my range mags loaded all of the time so I'm always ready to go to the range.

Jeez I come back and it's still this close Bump and hopefully ARFCOM can collectively make up their mind.

i wouldnt




but what the hell you have it already

Just loaded one up for storage and yes I would trust one since of all the others that own one have not had any issues with a Beta-C.

The common argument from many against the Beta mags are trivial and yet unproven, yes they are heavy for a standard carry but not as heavy in respect to a belt fed weapon.

If it's just sitting in the closet, then why not?  

my 2 cents

If you drop it while loaded wont it explode and spill rounds everywhere?

I wouldn't, but you're not me

WIZZO

Go for it. If it fails drop it and stuff in another magazine.

You should get rid of it.  They suck.  

Just give it to me and I'll make sure it gets disposed of properly.  Who do I make the Money Order out to?  

 Originally from Long-Rifle-Tactical

Just loaded one up for storage and yes I would trust one since of all the others that own one have not had any issues with a Beta-C. The common argument from many against the Beta mags are trivial and yet unproven, yes they are heavy for a standard carry but not as heavy in respect to a belt fed weapon.

There is plenty of well documented Reports stating that beta mags are Unreliable and They have cost Soldiers their lives in recent combat actions. You say you would trust one because "all of the others that own one have not had any issues"

Hobby and fun shooters who load them up and fire them on the range in ideal conditons is hardly a test I would trust my life on.  This topic has been hashed over many times and the conclusion is always the same. Fun range toy but not a serious piece of equiptment a smart shooter would stake their lives on.

Plus the bulk and weight alone takes a a quick handling carbine and turns it into a hip shooting boat anchor.

Stake you life on it of you want. I'll put myself in the smart group who know better...........

Quoted:  Originally from Long-Rifle-Tactical Just loaded one up for storage and yes I would trust one since of all the others that own one have not had any issues with a Beta-C. The common argument from many against the Beta mags are trivial and yet unproven, yes they are heavy for a standard carry but not as heavy in respect to a belt fed weapon. There is plenty of well documented Reports stating that beta mags are Unreliable and They have cost Soldiers their lives in recent combat actions.

I've read some of the after action reports, and some posts from people with military experience with them. In all that I've read, the beta's have never proven fit to leave the range, let alone go into combat.
I agree with you that I wouldn't want to take one to a fight, and previously posted as much.
I'm curious however.
Do you have anything you can share on combat casualties, or any links?

Why not,  I say go for it.

Load it up, I lean towards the Beta-C being more of a novelty, but I will add that everytime I have used mine it has operated 100%

Useful thread, Thank You!

I wondered about the Beta C  mag, but think I'll hold off as relatively unreliable.  I can buy 20 regular mags for the same $.

thanks,

Rick

Quoted:  Originally from Long-Rifle-Tactical Just loaded one up for storage and yes I would trust one since of all the others that own one have not had any issues with a Beta-C. The common argument from many against the Beta mags are trivial and yet unproven, yes they are heavy for a standard carry but not as heavy in respect to a belt fed weapon. There is plenty of well documented Reports stating that beta mags are Unreliable and They have cost Soldiers their lives in recent combat actions. You say you would trust one because "all of the others that own one have not had any issues" Hobby and fun shooters who load them up and fire them on the range in ideal conditons is hardly a test I would trust my life on.  This topic has been hashed over many times and the conclusion is always the same. Fun range toy but not a serious piece of equiptment a smart shooter would stake their lives on. Plus the bulk and weight alone takes a a quick handling carbine and turns it into a hip shooting boat anchor. Stake you life on it of you want. I'll put myself in the smart group who know better...........

Ok, I will bite and ask for some documentation on your assertion's that they are unreliable.

As far as the weight issue is concerned, it is darn sight lighter than a M60 at 23 pounds and I did hump one for a few years, every piece of gear is subject to failure if not kept in service or abused like it was nothing to be concerned about.

whoa!

We have a tie!
how about that... GET BOTH!

actually, I load mine up about a week before I go to the range, never had a issue with it being loaded up all the time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ 35 ]  Yea  [ 50% ]
[ 35 ]  Nay  [ 50% ]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Votes :: 70

I would rather have an equal number of rounds loaded into 30 rounders. Thought being, if you have a mag failure you just move on to the next mag - worst case you are down 29 rounds. But if you have a mag failure with a Beta, say on round 30 or so, all your ammo is stuck. It's the "putting all of your eggs in one basket" thing.

http://www.answers.com/topic/beta-c-mag

I suck at attaching Links and making them Hot, But all anyone has to do is go to google and Type in :
Beta-C mag Failures in Combat
And you will be able to read the AAR's from A Ghan on failures that were attributted to several deaths which the Cmags were a direct cause of.

Their is also more then enough documentation in regards to differnt Militaries testing them and finding them to be Sporadically unreliable. Such as the UK testing tem with the L85. and guess what, they found them  un reliable as well.

Other then pics in Gun Magazines...someone point to a Military that uses them???? Canada?,Germany? Australia.?....
Yea, when some Gun Mag takes a Pic of the new XM-8 they like to have a C-Mag on it for the pic, cause it looks cool. but don't believe for a minute it's been tested with it.


C'mon people...use your common sense. how reliable do you think something is that needs a special Graphite lube in order to get correct fuction. espesially something made of plastic that allows 100 rd to rattle around. Something with a Plastic tower that will not stand up to tens of thousands of rounds that a <ilitary weapon will inflict on it.  Something that has Killed US Soldiers in Combat recently and has been documented.

I've seen Pics Of Army privates who were using them in Iraq. In Pougue Units where most are clueless as to weapons and don't no anybetter.  Don't know about the rest of you, but I spent a career around Privates, and they are not the most technically proficient experts on equiptment that should be allowed in the field.

So I take it with a grain when some one refutes HARD DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE with " I got a body in the sandbox who uses one and he's not having any problems" or compares it's  weight to a Belt fed Crew served weapon. That's why a M60 or a M240 B weighs more. becuase it's designed to fire high volumes of  Ammo over a long period of time. The M16/4's were not.  Privates also think they can turn their M16 into a M249 SAW with a 100 rd drum...wrong again.

Certainly gear fails in the field, but gear that is accepted for field use has gone thru rigurous testing in many different climates under all kinds of weather. Anyone got a link to BetaCmag testing that shows it to be a reliable and trustworthy piece of equiptment??????

That why Sargeants were created, to protect privates from themselves. So they don't load up and use that beta mag Dad sent them from home so he an get himself and his buddues killed at a critical point of a battle whern it locks up on him and he does not have the 2-5 seconds to ditch it, pull out a 30 rounder and get back in the fight......


Sorry for the long rant, but wholly crap...it a TOY....it's a FUN TOY to take to the range and shoot shit. To take out to the desert and shoot washing machines with. For guys to have fun BumbFiring or to play with their NFA toys at Knob Creek...but it is NOT something you would want to rely on in Combat or any Life or Death situation. Do we need a few more dead privates to illiustrate that point???  I think not. were smarter then that.. Arn't we??

38 yea
38 nay



I already loaded it up and stuffed it away with 4 other 30 round magazines. Pretty soon I'll have a Beta mag as well as 6 magazines stashed for SHTF.



Thanks


-DagNasty

39 and 39 now

If you put 100 rounds in it, its bound to jam once.......but that didnt keep my from voting yea

40 yea
39 nay

dont forget how heavy it is................

Quoted: www.answers.com/topic/beta-c-mag

I'll stick with 30rds. Article starts on page 5.

That's the one I'd read here in the past.
I also found this.
www.thegunzone.com/556dw-6.html

TACOM issues Ground Precautionary Message GPM-02-007 "Commercial 100-Round Magazine for Use in M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW)." This concerns the recently purchased Beta C-Mags.

TECOM publishes the following in "Test Record Number S-51340": "The C-Mag is not suitable for use in training. The C-Mag demonstrated low reliability, poor durability, poor ergonomics, and resulted in a significant increase in weight for the same combat load."

July: Wexford Group International (on behalf of the Army's Rapid Equipping Force) conducts tests on the Beta C-Mag with the 82nd Airborne at Kandahar Airfield in Afghanistan. The field test is intended to evaluate the C-Mag as a back up for loose ammo, or when linked ammo is unavailable or in short supply. Its ultimate goal is to be an alternative to the link issue ammo. The results are once again negative. While loading the magazines, there are numerous jams, speed loaders break, and several magazines will not accept the full capacity of ammunition. Once live firing begins, there are repeated weapon malfunctions. Failures to chamber and double feeds are the most common problems.

Oh yeah, that baby'd be my first line of defense.

I've seen Pics Of Army privates who were using them in Iraq. In Pougue Units where most are clueless as to weapons and don't no anybetter.  Don't know about the rest of you, but I spent a career around Privates, and they are not the most technically proficient experts on equiptment that should be allowed in the field. That why Sargeants were created, to protect privates from themselves. So they don't load up and use that beta mag Dad sent them from home so he an get himself and his buddues killed at a critical point of a battle whern it locks up on him and he does not have the 2-5 seconds to ditch it, pull out a 30 rounder and get back in the fight......hr

I think it's pathetic of you to refer to a soldier in the United States Army, especially today, in time of war, by their rank, and to say that there's no way that they're tactically proficient because they don't wear enough stripes.  I'm sure if I took you to Iraq and we got 50 of them in a room that have been going out on missions for the last 6 months, every single one of them has more experience than you'll ever have at these types of situations.

Those same, "Dumb Privates" probably know how to spell "Sergeant" as well.

Their Sergeants would probably be insulted that you think their only job is to protect Privates from themselves.

You're fucking pathetic.  You can hate on the product all you want, but don't you dare start insulting my fellow soldiers again.  That shit really pisses me off.

Oh, and the M249 has never been reliable with magazines at all, 100 rds or 30.  It's not designed to be used with mags except as a last resort.

One could argue that the M249 is an unreliable piece of crap even with belts, but I'll just leave it at saying it's a piece of shit with mags, because Army FMs will agree with me on that one.

I sold my two AR15 Beta mags........while a fun toy if you have full-auto.......you are putting your life in the hands of that plastic drum for SHTF......and field tests of the Beta caused the US Army to remove the Beta from its inventory. Get more reliable 30 round mags.......3 30rnders = 90rnds........who here has a AR15 that can handle Beta mag dumps and unloading a bunch of 30's as well?? Has anyone seen a Beta make a gun overheat rapidly?? Beta's were not designed for controlled full auto fire or semiauto fire........they were designed for a showing off at the range - sort of a "Mine's Bigger then yours complex". Just a toy - don't get confused with reality.

30 round mags are far more reliable than beta-C's will ever be. I have played with many beta mags, and every jam I've ever had with my rifle has been due to a beta mag. EVERY ONE. Never had a jam with a std. 30 round mag, but near the middle of a beta mags cycle (around rounds 40-60) the spring tension seems to become too loose, failing to push the rounds into the feed lips tightly enough. As the bolt comes forward, the round is not held tightly, and it doesn't go into the chamber straight, sometimes smashing the bullet back into the case, sometimes bending the neck of the case, etc. And yes, I tried different rifles and different beta mags, always the same problem. Sure, beta's can be good for laughs and maybe competition, but for SHTF, stay far, far away.

Originally from Tim84K10

I think it's pathetic of you to refer to a soldier in the United States Army, especially today, in time of war, by their rank, and to say that there's no way that they're tactically proficient because they don't wear enough stripes. I'm sure if I took you to Iraq and we got 50 of them in a room that have been going out on missions for the last 6 months, every single one of them has more experience than you'll ever have at these types of situations. Those same, "Dumb Privates" probably know how to spell "Sergeant" as well. Their Sergeants would probably be insulted that you think their only job is to protect Privates from themselves. You're fucking pathetic. You can hate on the product all you want, but don't you dare start insulting my fellow soldiers again. That shit really pisses me off. Oh, and the M249 has never been reliable with magazines at all, 100 rds or 30. It's not designed to be used with mags except as a last resort. One could argue that the M249 is an unreliable piece of crap even with belts, but I'll just leave it at saying it's a piece of shit with mags, because Army FMs will agree with me on that one.

Lighten up Francis... and check your reading comprehension.  Show me where I said privates are not technically proficient because they do not wear stripes???  I said they are not the most Tactically proficient on Equiptment that SHOULD be allowed in the field.

And Who do you think their learning these skills from?????

You missed the whole point. These are range toys and nothing more, and anyone who would recommend them to anyone going in harms way , Especially a Soldier< is doing them a diservice with out looking at the valued Data that is out their.

Oh, and the M249 has never been reliable with magazines at all, 100 rds or 30. It's not designed to be used with mags except as a last resort.

Who the hell said anything about 30 rd mags and SAW's , Has nothing to do with the topic.

You're fucking pathetic. You can hate on the product all you want, but don't you dare start insulting my fellow soldiers again. That shit really pisses me off.

Hate has nothing to do with the product. it has limitations and people need to know and understand what they are. based on your response, you sound like you think their fine for those in Harms way.....

And Spare me  your self righteous indignation... I've spent an entire career training and living with Soldiers and No one knows more then me how great they are and what a fantastic job they do. I've earned my right to have my view points.

And when you spent 3/4 of your career as a "Sergeant", you can dam sure spell it any way you want. I believe I've earned that right as well....

I like pie.
... and my Beta mag which I've never used and just sits in it's original box.  I bought it as a 'just in case they ban them again' thing... but if the SHTF, I'd load it up anyway... along with 20 x 30round mags.

I have lots of 30 rounders and I also have a beta. The beta is fully loaded with 100 rounds of Wolf FMJ and ready to go.

My SHTF primary rifle is an AK, becuase reliability is never a question.

My SHTF primary handgun is a Glock, once again becuase reliability is never a question.

Quoted: My SHTF primary rifle is an AK, becuase reliability is never a question.

STOP!!!! STOP!!!!  I thought it would all be over after I bought my AR.  I've never wanted an AK.  You're making me THIS close (index finger and thumb really close together) to buying the SEAK.  I DONT want to buy it but the more I hear about AKs, the more I want one.  PLEASE STOP!!!!  I don't have any more room for a new caliber of ammo in my closet.  PLEASE STOP NOW!!!!  

ETA:  Do they make a Beta-C for the AK?  

I agree that its a range toy and nothing more. Isold mine a while back. No way would I risk my life with it.
Pat

Ok I have to ask just what is SHTF? We are all here in the USA not in combat. There isn’t much combat coming our way that I am aware of. So SHTF in the USA a Beta would be tops. Mine run 100%. But I back myself up with 18 yes 18, 30 round loaded GI magazines ready to go in a harness. But out the door it will be a Beta all the way. My theory is if there is a SHTF situation I want maximum firepower to suppress the situation then I have 18 30 round magazines on my body as back up. Oh and no body wants to hear this I am a combat veteran.

 To each their own........I believe hits count first - not massive volumes of firepower - especially if you have no logistics to back you up (ie - civilian). Of course, if you have an truck or SUV packed full of 5.56mm.....then knock yourself out. Just don't expect to hit anything long range from bump firing or full auto mag dumps.

The 101st Airborne did a full field evaluation of the Beta-C in Afghanistan and they were not impressed - tons of malfunctions and breakage. Several US soldiers died in Iraq with M16's loaded with malfunctioned Betas. The Beta should run fine in a sterile environment if you load a snap cap first so as not to damage the Beta - also you MUST have the graphite lube.....I had a Beta mag break on me once - prior to even dumping rounds downrange with it. I was deployed at that time in Kosovo.

If the Beta works for you - great. Just don't confuse a sterile range at the gun club with SHTF.........That 100rnds might not weigh much in the gun at the range - but try humping your AR with all your gear for 5 or 10 miles.....kind of feels like carrying a SAW.....and for most of the Chairborne Strangers of ARFCOM - that Beta mag is going to get thrown away if they have to walk more then a mile. When the plastic feed lips on the Beta break or the feeder assembly falls apart - you are out $200 or more.

 All my 30rnd and 20rnd mags are field tested - malfunctioning mags are fixed or destroyed. I check them EVERY time I shoot.

20 and 30 round USGI for SHTF

Beta C for resale after the next ban.  IIRC they were selling for $450-550 at that time.

I find my self wanting to buy a Beta just to let it sit and wait around for the next ban...the sad part is the majority of the Beta market is problably people doing this.

Matt

Quoted: Quoted: My SHTF primary rifle is an AK, becuase reliability is never a question. STOP!!!! STOP!!!!  I thought it would all be over after I bought my AR.  I've never wanted an AK.  You're making me THIS close (index finger and thumb really close together) to buying the SEAK.  I DONT want to buy it but the more I hear about AKs, the more I want one.  PLEASE STOP!!!!  I don't have any more room for a new caliber of ammo in my closet.  PLEASE STOP NOW!!!!   ETA:  Do they make a Beta-C for the AK?

Its called a 75rd drum and you can get them under $100
I prefer 30rdrs but to each his own. I do plan on getting some 40rd Bulgarian AK mags.

Give in you know you have to have it.

I love ARs too.

Quoted: I find my self wanting to buy a Beta just to let it sit and wait around for the next ban...the sad part is the majority of the Beta market is problably people doing this. Matt

 Well, if that is the case, then I will have one hell of a doorstop collection .

Quoted: C'mon people...use your common sense. how reliable do you think something is that needs a special Graphite lube in order to get correct fuction. espesially something made of plastic that allows 100 rd to rattle around. Something with a Plastic tower that will not stand up to tens of thousands of rounds that a <ilitary weapon will inflict on it.  Something that has Killed US Soldiers in Combat recently and has been documented. I've seen Pics Of Army privates who were using them in Iraq. In Pougue Units where most are clueless as to weapons and don't no anybetter.  Don't know about the rest of you, but I spent a career around Privates, and they are not the most technically proficient experts on equiptment that should be allowed in the field. So I take it with a grain when some one refutes HARD DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE with " I got a body in the sandbox who uses one and he's not having any problems" or compares it's  weight to a Belt fed Crew served weapon. That's why a M60 or a M240 B weighs more. becuase it's designed to fire high volumes of  Ammo over a long period of time. The M16/4's were not.  Privates also think they can turn their M16 into a M249 SAW with a 100 rd drum...wrong again. Certainly gear fails in the field, but gear that is accepted for field use has gone thru rigurous testing in many different climates under all kinds of weather. Anyone got a link to BetaCmag testing that shows it to be a reliable and trustworthy piece of equiptment?????? That why Sargeants were created, to protect privates from themselves. So they don't load up and use that beta mag Dad sent them from home so he an get himself and his buddues killed at a critical point of a battle whern it locks up on him and he does not have the 2-5 seconds to ditch it, pull out a 30 rounder and get back in the fight...... Sorry for the long rant, but wholly crap...it a TOY....it's a FUN TOY to take to the range and shoot shit. To take out to the desert and shoot washing machines with. For guys to have fun BumbFiring or to play with their NFA toys at Knob Creek...but it is NOT something you would want to rely on in Combat or any Life or Death situation. Do we need a few more dead privates to illiustrate that point???  I think not. were smarter then that.. Arn't we??

Using that train of thought, then why do we use the garbage M9 that failed testing and falls apart in combat? The Beretta 92FS stuggled to keep up with 30 year-old, abused M1911A1's. When the Army and the Seals let Ruger know about the slides repeatedly falling off in combat situations, Beretta filed a lawsuit against the Department of the Army and The Department of the Navy.

Guess which pistol we use now? Also, the M4 is too short of a barrel to get sufficient power and muzzle energy out of an already under-powered round.

I do agree that the C-Beta drum magazine is NOT to be relied upon in combat as with any drum magazine. The tried and true 30 round standard issue magazines are the only magzines that should be used because they will not fail you.

I also agree that the M16 and M4 rifles do not fill the same roles of the Belgium machineguns. The machineguns were designed for that role and the M16/m4's were designed as an automatic rifle.

And what's with the uppity attitude that everyone that is not an NCO is automatically metally defunct and is incapable of functioning? You use the word "Private" as a word of shame. That they are as competent in combat than your average civilian, that anyone who is in this group is incapable of achieving anything. I'd really hate to serve with someone with your attitude.

Obviously better as an investment than as a tactical accessory.

I know i've seen those videos by the Beta-C company that shows the mags being used and firing hundreds of rounds and whatnot.  But, has anyone done a non-sponsored test video that shows the Beta-C being put through some real life torture tests and firing reliably?  As I stated previously, I'm glad to own one, and will always save it just in case.  I'm just curious if someone has any proof to back up it's reliabilty.  Yes, i'm aware that people have had problems with them, but what's the ration of bad ones to good ones?

Somebody needs to do a torture test of the Beta mag.

Someone get me some Beta-C mags and I'll torture test them. horse.gif

Quoted: Somebody needs to do a torture test of the Beta mag.

Yup, because the Army is too poofy to really do it right.

Jeebus, man, the reason many of us watch what the military do because they're tougher on gear than we may ever be.

If the people who know don't think it's up to scratch, then it's not worth me risking my life on.

Not to mention the numerous Army technical evaluations prior to "test fielding" in Afganistan that clearly showed what a lousy piece of crap the C-mag was...but a General (possibly friendly to Beta-Co?) insisted on the test. End result: Negative user feedback (gosh the same problems found as before)....plus the soldier who apparently had problems with his in a mountain firefight (found dead & next to him his C-mag...taken down with all the rounds on the ground)...Hummmmm.

If offered one for free I might accept, only to use it as a range target.

I found the Army testing information and it is informative as well as educational, but no one can find any information what so ever about any deaths due to the Beta failing during any military action.

Anyone have the skivvy on this?

If you don't keep it loaded, it's just an expensive rock.

Never had any problems with my Beta mags, but then I don't crawl through mud or endure sandstorms with it. I have had 30-rounders wear out and dent.

I can't think of a better Looter Shooter than a 16" AR with a Beta mag and an ACOG. If I had ridden out Katrina in New Orleans, that's what would have been sitting close at hand while I enjoyed my stockpiled food and water.  

I say no.  Reason is I find all this SHTF stuff pretty silly.  IF anything does happen where you would actually need your weapon for SHTF, like in New Orleans, you will have plenty of time to load up a mag or two.  IMHO all these SHTF scenarios and end of world preparations are silly.  I lived through Y2K without a generator, a months supply of water and food, and thousands of dollars cash on hand and I survived just fine.  I don't get it and I hope I never do.   I can't say I ever was much of a boy scout.

I wish that they made them for 308 ar's

Quoted: i wouldnt but what the hell you have it already

+1, or sell it and get 15-20 thirty rounders which gives you an 450-600 loaded rounds versus the beta.