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2/21/2020 11:35:28 PM
Posted: 9/12/2009 12:22:53 AM EST
What would be the best ACOG to purchase for a 14.5'' 5.56 patrol rifle?

Link Posted: 9/12/2009 2:01:03 AM EST

Dunno, I'm looking into my first ACOG and I'm wondering the same thing for my 14.5. Lookin' hard at the M4 RCO and the TA31F.

So, really, this is a tag to see where this goes
Link Posted: 9/12/2009 3:14:11 AM EST
Unless you patrol in an open environment, get a 1.5x magnification model.
Link Posted: 9/12/2009 3:30:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By MagazineFed:
Unless you patrol in an open environment, get a 1.5x magnification model.


Or an Aimpoint
Link Posted: 9/12/2009 4:11:58 AM EST
Tag for interest. Im considering one for a full length rifle. Have settled on a TA01 for now, but still looking around at others.
Link Posted: 9/12/2009 4:34:06 AM EST
TA-33?

Extended eye relief
Magnification is nice
Lighter and smaller than an 11
Link Posted: 9/12/2009 7:32:26 AM EST
I don't know if you've ever used an ACOG, but unless you're routinely shooting past 150yds, they really get in the way, especially in an urban environment. ACOG's are not precision optics, but combat optics, so again, they're usually not perfectly suited for patrol.

I'd honestly think an aimpoint would suit you better. If you're wanting magnification, again, I'd steer away from ACOG's and suggest a variable power Trijicon like the TR24. It has the triangular glowing reticule so you still get the bindon aiming concept (BAC) that you'd get from an ACOG, while still having a 1-4x variable magnification.

If you're stuck wanting an ACOG and only an ACOG, then I'd go with the 1.5x models as the poster above suggested.
Link Posted: 9/12/2009 9:30:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By 80sgyrene:
TA-33?

Extended eye relief
Magnification is nice
Lighter and smaller than an 11


this. BAC works great even at very close ranges. Have the amber horseshoe and it works as well CQB as an Eotech. You just have to practice wtih it. Plus you have the longer range available with the magnification.
Link Posted: 9/12/2009 10:20:10 AM EST
If it were me...I'd rather than a Micro Aimpoing and appropriate La Rue Tactical mount

I would also zero a TA-33 on a La Rue mount and take along as a backup


Main thing is choosing the best optics for mission and for you personally

just my .02

Link Posted: 9/12/2009 1:42:06 PM EST
I would say a good set of BUIS and the ACOG would be a good patrol optic. I think the extra X power would come in handy identifying perps, increase accuracy at longer distances like ie. parking lots, open highways, Big box stores,and the head shots you might need if baddy has body armor, etc.
You can always use the quick detach mount and run open sights if you need to. A TA33G-H would be my choice. And if your really scared you need that red dot get and RMR at the 1 o'clock.
But Im not a cop nor do I play one on TV.
Link Posted: 9/12/2009 3:08:08 PM EST
Seems to me the benefit of the ACOG's magnification is great on a patrol rifle because if you can't get the job done with your handgun, the threat is somewhat distant right? I guess it depends how you envision using the rifle, if you are using it in rooms then non-magnified is better, but I'm assuming a police officer is pretty much always using a pistol in an inside environment.
Link Posted: 9/12/2009 3:13:51 PM EST
In an urban area either an Aimpoint or a x1.5 ACOG for a patrol rifle. A rifle with just irons is still better than a shotgun or sidearm as long as you have a quality white light mounted to illuminate your sights in low/no-light conditions. Any magnification will slow you down.

In a rural area a low powered variable, x1-4, with an illuminated reticle, might make sense, but so would a larger caliber weapon for extended ranges. A quality set up will cost more than an Aimpoint/LaRue combo.

This is for a patrol rifle, not a SWAT sniper rifle. What realistic ranges do you think that you would be able to take a justifiable shot as a first responder to a critical incident? You might be surprised at the ranges most "long range" sniper incididents take place. Under 100 meters. The vast majority of patrol scenarios will take place inside of 50 meters, and most officer involved shootings happen within 7 yards. At these ranges RDS are the best choice, with irons a close second, IMHO.

If you need to ID a target at longer ranges as a law enforcement officer then you need to use some binoculars instead of a scope on a weapon. Same principles involved as using a hand held light instead of a weapon mounted light all the time at night. There's a time and a place, and you should use the right tool for the job. This is a training issue.
Link Posted: 9/13/2009 9:46:49 PM EST
ACOGs suck for patrol rifles in urban areas. I removed my TA31F after the first time I pulled it out and put the Aimpoint T1 and magnifier back on. Aimpoint works great for room clearing and anything close up, and the 3x adds magnification if needed for perimeter work.

My patrol rifle:

Link Posted: 9/14/2009 12:54:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By MagazineFed:
Unless you patrol in an open environment, get a 1.5x magnification model.


+1
1.5x magnification models are awsome.
I have one and couldnt be happier; fast like an Aimpoint but without batteries.


Link Posted: 9/14/2009 4:36:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2009 4:37:35 AM EST by DevL]
Originally Posted By Eastwood123:
Tag for interest. Im considering one for a full length rifle. Have settled on a TA01 for now, but still looking around at others.


TA01 is not allowed by TCLEOSE for a patrol duty rifle. If you are not doing precision rifle qualification you are not qualifed by TCLEOSE to use over 3X on a duty/patrol rifle as the magnification limit set forth by the state is 3X. You rdepartment policies will mirror TCLEOSE regualtions. Your ONLY choices are red dot plus 3X magnifier or TA33.
Link Posted: 9/14/2009 12:15:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/15/2009 3:12:35 PM EST by topgunpilot20]
Nevermind.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 11:47:35 AM EST
so a 1-4 variable like an accupoint tr24 is a good patrol optic with magnification?
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 3:41:41 PM EST
Aimpoint.

For police work an ACOG will impede you. Police are 99% of the time less than 100 yds. Aimpoint is far more faster and usefull at those ranges.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 10:38:28 PM EST
My experiences have given me a much different opinion than many here. I have used a 4x ACOG extensively on work rifles and have not had any problems. I do in fact prefer my 1.5x5 VXIII illuminated Leupold over any fixed power ACOG, but that is not the nature of the discussion. I use and prefer the TAO1 with traditional crosshairs. You would be very surprised how far across some parking lots are. Apartment building complexes, even some large commercial structures have massive hallways, rooftops, common areas, etc. People often mistakenly associate urban with close range.

Unfortunately guys are used to training on short distance square ranges where they are most often presented full sized targets to shoot at. Only rarely are they challenged with a partial target and then they make excuses why they failed to make first round hits. The fact of the matter is, many bad guys do understand cover and concealment and will often only expose a small part of their body. I have found a 4x TAO1 to be the most practical all around optic for my uses. It is not perfect, and like I said, I really prefer a low powered variable due to its flexibility in application, but that is another subject.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 6:07:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 9:27:39 AM EST by girard]
Not appilcable.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 10:39:05 AM EST
Aimpoint + 3X magnifier on a flip mount.

My head always wants to explode every time I hear the term "man sized target". When the shooting starts, people hide. There are no man sized targets. You will only have body parts to shoot at once hostility starts. Use an Aimpoint for the dynamic short range stuff. Then, if you have a target ID problem or difficulty getting a sight picture, flip in the 3X magnifier.

It is the ideal setup.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:02:36 AM EST
i have a ACOG on my DMR (it is like cheating, it is so good).

i have a T1 on my patrol rifle.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 11:33:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By Kobe123:
Aimpoint + 3X magnifier on a flip mount.

My head always wants to explode every time I hear the term "man sized target". When the shooting starts, people hide. There are no man sized targets. You will only have body parts to shoot at once hostility starts. Use an Aimpoint for the dynamic short range stuff. Then, if you have a target ID problem or difficulty getting a sight picture, flip in the 3X magnifier.

It is the ideal setup.


Agreed 100%!
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 4:43:14 AM EST
I bought theTA50R4 3x24 compact ACOG. The other model has the special ring mount for flat tops but you cant switch them back to a carry handle like this one.
...Anyway I picked this model b/c the crosshair reticle is big enough to use w/ both eyes open at close targets and no need to buy a 3x magnifier/Aimpoint/EOtech combo.
The only downside is eye relief. it pretty much has to be mounted as far back as possible with the TA60, you might have better luck with the LaRue.


w/ Trijicon TA60 mount. The LaRue might be a better choice.

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:09:38 AM EST
I work in an area that is a mix of urban, suburban and rural. I spent a long time researching which optic to put on my rifle and for a while I thought I really wanted a TA-33 ACOG. But I eventually settled on an Aimpoint ML3 + LaRue PoBoy magnifier (2.5x) and here is my logic:

Most law enforcement engagments happen at very close range. The average SNIPER shot is somewhere around 75 yards. I am not a sniper, I am a patrol officer, so my shots are likely to be closer and indoors. The aimpoint's 1x magnification is best suited for such engagements. Anything out to 50 yards you shouldn't have magnification. It closes your field of view down too much. Between 50 and 200, magnification is not required for most shots but may be helpful if only a partial body target is presented or you need extra target ID. Beyond 200, magnification will certainly be useful to make accurate shots.

Given that much of my rifle's work will be in close, I went with the Aimpoint ML3 over the ACOG's fixed magnification. The 2.5x magnifier is there to help if I really need to reach out and touch someone, but most likely, it will remain flipped out of the way. At 200 bucks for the mount and magnifier, I consider it cheap insurance.

You could put a mini-red dot on the acog. The problem is that this is the reverse of my setup because the mini-red dot is the secondary optic to the ACOG being primary, where my AImpoint is primary with the magnifier secondary. Close range being more likely and important than long, I want the 1x optic being the primary one. Another problem with the mini-red dot is that you have to remember to turn it on and off. When it hits the fan, the ACOG is great. No batteries. But so is the Aimpoint because you can just leave it on. The mini-redot sours the deal a bit on the ACOG.

Lastly, being that I am a cop, I get paid like one. The TA-33 starts around $800 these days. Want the mini-reddot? Get ready for at least another couple hundred. I got my Aimpoint for $390 (shipping included) plus $110 for the mount plus $200 for magnifier and mount. Total: $700.

This is what works for ME, where I work and how I do business and how I have trained. If you are in a similar situation, this MAY work for you. Make sure you fully evaluate your environment, threat, training and any other circumstances before making a selection, and use the advice on this board as a guide. No disrespect to the civilian members here(lord knows many can outshoot me all day long), but we LE folks live in a special world sometimes, and it's defined by very specialized training and experience , so consult some LE professionals in your area as well as what you find here.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 11:23:49 AM EST
I hunt coyotes with my M4 based rifle with CompM3 + Aimpoint 3X magnifier. When I start my stand, I have the 3X magnifier rotated out of position. If a coyote surprises me and shows up close, I simply take the shot quickly. I rotate the 3X magnifier into place when I can see the coyote coming from a distance and things are not so dynamic. The value of the magnifier is twofold. First, it gives you a better sight picture. Coyotes blend in well. Even at relatively short distances, a crisp sight picture can be difficult. Second, the magnifier is useful for low light situations. It is like a poor man's night vision scope.

Obviously, the coyote is not shooting back. However, there are some lessons that can be applied. Short distance targets are usually dynamic and unexpected. The CompM3 allows me to pick up my target quickly and make hits fast. Long range targets can be tough to get a good sight picture. Since they are less dynamic, I have time to rotate in my 3X magnifier to improve my hit potential.

This is the same gun I would use for SHTF or mutant zombie attacks. Hours and hours of hunting with this gun (in addition to good training) I think will be helpful.

Link Posted: 9/17/2009 1:42:02 PM EST
I'd have to echo the comments of some other fellas here. ACOG is too critical in my limited experience with them as far as eye relief and magnification. An aimpoint or a similar red dot setup is perfect. If you are in a more open area for patrol an ACOG would be better but nothing a magnifier couldn't help with either.
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 7:46:56 AM EST
1.5 acog or aimpoint.

Try the aimpoint / magnifier hanging off combo in real life and see how much that b**** gets hung up on straps, gear, etc -
Link Posted: 9/18/2009 8:14:43 AM EST
I hunt with my Aimpoint/magnifier equiped AR15 all the time. I never run into problems with it hanging up since it folds to the right.
Link Posted: 9/19/2009 7:37:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By kavik:
1.5 acog or aimpoint.

Try the aimpoint / magnifier hanging off combo in real life and see how much that b**** gets hung up on straps, gear, etc -


I've never had a problem with it.
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