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Posted: 5/5/2005 1:24:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Give it a shot with your half-assed jerry-rigged deal, and tell us how it works out after a few thousand rounds and dropping the light a few dozen times on the ground, bezel first.
I'll stick with a Z32 bezel that only costs about $30.00. I learned a long time ago to just pony up for the good stuff rather than bullshitting with crap. By the time you put all the brain energy and futz around time into it, you've spent more than you would pay anyway, and you could have had the proper part and been USING the gear. |
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Posted: 5/5/2005 1:31:56 PM EDT
[#2]
Thats pretty funny , I pretty much did the exact same thing except I bought a rubber washer instead of plastic. I figured rubber would be more shock proof.
The bad news is it didn't work. I tried to get the thinnest washer I could but it is still to thick. The top battery can't touch the bulb. I am going to try and find a thinner one if possible. Other than that problem it fit really good in the G2 body. I have the same light with the M2 bezel. |
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Posted: 5/5/2005 1:38:15 PM EDT
[#3]
If you read his post he said he already has a shock isolated bezel, the M2 which is a more exspensive bezel than the Z32 and is the one found on weapon lights. Plus just having a shock iso bezel doesn't mean that your light is shock proof. If you don't have battery retention which the G2/6P/Z2/ G2Z ect.. do not, then the best shock isolated bezel is only a band aid fix. It only cost 10 cents for a washer, I don't think he is going to be wasting a lot of money. |
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Posted: 5/5/2005 1:56:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Interesting! What was the outside diameter of the washer you used (if you recall)? Did you secure the washer inside the tube (with some type of glue or cement) or just let is rest inside with friction? |
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Posted: 5/5/2005 1:58:20 PM EDT
[#5]
I'm happy you were able to afford a $250 plus weapon light. I can't. |
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Posted: 5/5/2005 4:50:06 PM EDT
[#6]
The outside diameter is 3/4 of an inch. I didn't glue it or secure it in any way, I just let in sit in on top of the batteries. Let me know if you try it and what happened. Bill |
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Posted: 5/5/2005 4:55:43 PM EDT
[#7]
What about some sort of fiber washer(s)? They are out there and used for various things...HD or Lowes, maybe? They would not resolve the problem forever, but maybe would get you where you need to go for a limited amount of time and then could be replaced?
Damn...I wish I could remember where I saw some of those things! 
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Posted: 5/5/2005 7:07:58 PM EDT
[#8]
what about a slightly bigger/longer spring?
that way you still have battery/bulb connection |
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Posted: 5/7/2005 4:11:23 AM EDT
[#9]
Surefire 650 weapon light -vs- Surefire 6P  Surefire 6P -vs- 650 weapon light 
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Posted: 5/8/2005 12:08:35 AM EDT
[#10]
 No, I put a z32 on a G2. Cost all of about $50.00. Do some research man. My point was that you are surely free to go ahead and try a home remedy. But don't complain when your lamp blows out. Then, you'll know your "fix" wasn't, and you'll have to pony up for a new lamp AND a shock bezel. Why not just save yourself the trouble and do it right the first time. |
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Posted: 5/8/2005 4:40:51 AM EDT
[#11]
The Z32 shock bezel isn't going to prevent the batteries from slamming into the lamp assembly. That's what the ledge that's in the light body does.
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Posted: 5/8/2005 5:39:16 AM EDT
[#12]
I am seriously not trying to be a smart ass but you really don't understand what we are talking about or what your talking about. You keep saying "do it right the first time" and you yourself didn't do it right the first time. A G2 even with a shock iso bezel still isn't shock proof. If you do not have battery isolation (which the G2 does not) then your bulb can still and over time most likely will blow. KClapp did exactly what you did with your G2 and put on a shock iso bezel. He is taslking about a 10 cent fix that almost definetly will not do any harm but could possibly make the G2 body have some battery isolation. If it doesn't work then all he did was waste 10 cents. I don't understand how on earth if the "fix" doesn't work and he blows the bulb that he will need a new bezel. If your bulb blows it is not going to hurt your bezel. I think you are the one who needs to do some research on how personal lights and weapon lights work. |
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Posted: 5/8/2005 8:04:39 AM EDT
[#13]
This may seam like a stupid question but.....
I have a couple G2s laying around and I was planning on buying the $8 mount from G and R, to attach it to the side rail of my AR. Am I understanding you guys correctly that the batteries jostlying around on the inside of the flashlight, everytime you fire the gun, will some how break the bulb? I had planned on getting the Z49 Tailcap and possibly the Z32 head assempbly, but will the batteries still resort in a problem? I use one my G2s as a Back up light (I am a Police Officer) and I have dropped it many a time and hit it on things, and never had a problem with the bulb. I also carry a 9AN as my primary light and I have smacked it really hard on things and people as well as dropped it on the ground bezel first. It has never had a problem either. I have become a die hard Surefire fan, and I was wondering about the dangers of mounting a cheaper light, like the G2, on an AR. I have never had any experience with mounting lights on long guns, and I would love to be able to afford an M900A, but that would end in my divorce. I have also thought about buying an M3 or X200E and switching it between my glock and rifle. What do you guys think PS - I hope you can sort through my conglomeration of questions and statements. |
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Posted: 5/8/2005 8:08:26 AM EDT
[#14]
One more question:
Are LED lights sibject to the same "dangers" as regular flashlights when it comes to shock? |
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Posted: 5/8/2005 8:16:15 AM EDT
[#15]
As with any weapons accessory it all boils down to:
1) Your budget. 2) Your intentions for use. 3) How confident you feel with that equipment. I have a G2 with shock isolated bezel. I went the additional step of taping my batteries together for added assurance. Sure Fire goes the additional step in their weapons light by adding a battery retainer to the lights designed strictly as weapons lights. Take a look at my G2 when using a Z32 bezel and taping the batt’s together. First, the Z32 it self has shock isolation for the lamp assy. Second, the bulb assy has springs to cushion the bulb from the housing and the bulb from the batteries. Third, my batteries are taped together to prevent them from smacking into each other. Fourth, I use two 1” Weaver rings mounted side by side to provide a solid mounting platform, reducing vibration. Fifth and final is the tail cap, which it self has a built in spring.   Combined with the light recoil of the .223/5.56, all these measures, I feel, provide plenty of shock isolation for a home protection/light duty weapons light. True, there is no barrier to prevent the batteries from fully impacting the lamp. But the batteries are free to float back and forth between the contact spring on the bulb and the contact spring in the tail cap. Anyway, an impact strong enough to slam the batteries against the bulb, fully compressing the spring destroying the lamp, would I believe cause more damage than to just the light! I have fired hundreds of rounds with this light installed, some with the lamp illuminated, and it still functions just fine. I don’t abuse my weapons but this rifle has not been babied either. For one it has endured falling over after being propped up against a wall along with the vibration and shock from riding along in a truck across open terrain. I trust this set up for my intended use, as stated above, it fits my budget and intended use. If soldiers fielding the G2 feel comfortable with the out of the box, stock G2 set up, I feel comfortable with my home usage with the modifications I’ve made. YMMV.  
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Posted: 5/8/2005 8:20:38 AM EDT
[#16]
thanks for showing the setup you have going and also for posting those pictures. A soldier over seas, using a G2 out of the box, would definately break it a long time before i would break mine.
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Posted: 5/8/2005 11:29:38 AM EDT
[#17]
The batteries inside a G2 are actually pretty stable, they don't really move around when shooting, but without the intergated battery isolation you can not be garunteed it will not blow the bulb. I have a G2 with a M2 shock iso bezel mounted on my Ar and I have fired alot of rounds with it on, with no problems at all. Alot of people use a G2 on their Ar with no ill effects, some have had problems. You might be able to use your G2 for years on your weapon and never have a problem but there is always that chance something could happen. There is that chance with any weapon mounted light but the chances are greatly reduced with a true weapons mounted light. Right now for what I am doing with my AR my G2 with the M2 bezel is fine but if my life depended on my gear I would think twice about using it. Good Luck. LEDs do not have the same problem that regular bulbs do so you might be better off with the X200 |
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Posted: 5/8/2005 11:42:28 AM EDT
[#18]
Fine, I'm fucking clueless.
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Posted: 5/8/2005 6:37:50 PM EDT
[#19]
= weirdo !!!! |
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Posted: 5/8/2005 6:56:37 PM EDT
[#20]
It always shocks me how defensive people get on the forums when anyone disagrees with their opinion.
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Posted: 5/9/2005 6:46:04 AM EDT
[#21]
I already have an M2 shock isolated bezel on it. That does not make it fully shock isolated my friend. If it did, no one would be buying the 950 or 960 series lights from SF. Take a look at the pics posted by fight4yourrights, it shows the battery isolation lip in the tube. A shock isolated bezel PLUS battery isolation are what make the light weapons grade. Not just a SI bezel. |
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Posted: 5/9/2005 6:54:42 AM EDT
[#22]
Your problem wasn't washer thickness, it was washer diameter. I did some experimentation this weekend. The metal tube on the inside of the G2 acts as the ground circuit. When the tail cap is pushed, it closes the ciruit (because the tailcap ring comes in contact with that metal tube) and you get light. The large spring on the outside of the bulb assembly must be in contact with that metal tube to complete the circuit. If you put a .75 diameter washer in there, it prevents the contact. I shaved down a washer to .70 and it friction fit inside the tube. Worked well. Then I took some Permatex black silicone and put it on the washer and tube to prevent the washer from sliding forward. The silicone is the best adhesive, I believe, because it's shock proof and heat resistent. Once the silicone cures, I will allow a battery to drop onto the washer from the tailcap end. Assuming it holds, that is about the most shock the washer should have to endure. I'll get pics as soon as I can. ETA: In mulling this over, a metal washer of .75 diameter would most likely work, also. That way it would maintain the circuit. |
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Posted: 5/9/2005 6:59:51 AM EDT
[#23]
Cool pics. |
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Posted: 5/9/2005 11:08:15 AM EDT
[#24]
I did not even relize that. Maybe I'll try a metal washer and see what happens. Thanks for the info! Try and get a pic up as soon as you can |
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Posted: 5/9/2005 1:38:56 PM EDT
[#25]
if taping the batteries really does make a huge difference, why not buy the one battery for the G2. My local Surefire store carries all kinds of batteries, and one of them is two lithium like in the surefire that are soldered together and then wrapped in plastic so it is basically one battery.
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Posted: 5/10/2005 7:03:59 AM EDT
[#26]
Well, here are the pics of what I did. As you can see, the application of the Permatex was a tad crude, but quite functional. It prevents the washer from sliding forward. As I stated earlier, I think the silicone is best because it adheres to dissimilar surfaces very well, it is shock resistant, and heat resistant. You can see the difference between the stock G2 on the left and the one with my mod on the right. I am pleased with the way it turned out and my batteries are most certainly isolated at this point. The washer is a fiber washer. I would have preferred nylon, but the only nylon washer I could find had the diameter of the inside hole too large. The fiber worked quite well, however.
 
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Posted: 5/10/2005 8:55:00 AM EDT
[#27]
I was wrong. Sorry if I pissed anyone off. We were talking about two different things. I now realize you were talking about completely isolating the batteries. And you are correct, the G2 doesn't do that. There is nothing that physically prevents them from moving into the lamp--even with the Z32. Having said that, my point, which I didn't make well, was that I don't think total battery isolation is needed on an AR with so little recoil. To have total isolation, you'd need to put a retaining ring or washer into the body of the G2 to keep the batteries from moving forward. That permatex mod might not last long, but let us know how it works out. |
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Posted: 5/10/2005 9:39:56 AM EDT
[#28]
It's NOT just taping - Surefire solders a wire between the two and puts a cushion pad in between them. |
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Posted: 5/10/2005 10:32:12 AM EDT
[#29]
No offense taken here. And you're probably right about not needing the battery isolation on the AR15. But it was worth a shot ...  and it seems to be working.The Permatex was actually designed to use on automobile engines, that was one big factor in choosing it. I figured if it'll stand up to engine vibration and heat, it'll handle whatever that G2(even with a P61 lamp) and AR combined will dish out. |
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Posted: 5/10/2005 11:01:42 AM EDT
[#30]
Kclapp, When you added the washer to the inside of the G2.....I want to do it as well, and while I know kind of what you did......could you explain it in simple terms (including how you knew how far down the tube to glue the washer, etc.), either for me or on the thread, that way those who want to try it and not jack something up have something to work from...
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Posted: 5/10/2005 11:19:40 AM EDT
[#31]
Since I dont have one of these lights I may be talking out of my ass but to use glue or epoxy to hold the washer just doesnt sound like it will take the recoil. The sides are smooth so holding power will be low.
How about a dimple on either side of the body. Use a rounded off punch and whack it just hard enough to dimple the inside. Dont punch it thru just hard enough to dimple the inside. Place the punch marks at 33 degrees away from each other at the place were you want the washer to stop inside the flashligh body. |
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Posted: 5/10/2005 11:40:03 AM EDT
[#32]
I dont know, but I am afraid the nitrolon will break before it dimples....
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Posted: 5/10/2005 12:14:13 PM EDT
[#33]
Permatex is a black silicone. Think bathtub calk on a more refined scale. It is designed to hold on all types of surfaces. |
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Posted: 5/10/2005 12:36:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Once the washer is ground down to a proper diameter (.70") it will then friction fit inside the tube. Place the washer in the tube from the tailcap end. Then put a battery in behind it and carefully push the washer forward with the battery. Then put the second battery behind the first and continue to push them into the tube. Once the batteries are flush with the back of the tube, then install the tailcap. This will force the washer into the proper position to be secured with the silicone. I recommend removing the batteries and tailcap at this point and then applying the silicone from the bezel end of the tube. The biggest problem to overcome is how to grind down the washer to the proper diameter. I had a dremel tool that I was able to secure the washer to so that I could spin it and grind it down using a fairly fine grit sandpaper. Make sure to take measurements on the washer frequently. It needs to be a tight fit in the tube to work well. |
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Posted: 5/11/2005 7:13:17 AM EDT
[#35]
YES, YOU ARE... This isn't going to work with the Nitrolon OR any Aluminum anodized body, I'm fairly sure. I guess my E2E is a weapons-grade light now by these standards. It has machined into the body, an inner lip that keeps the batteries from coming out the front end, or as you'd like to put it- from ramming into the head and bulb. My K1 head seems slightly brighter than my new G2 and it isn't sensitive to shock like a filament-bulb. When I received my G2 yesterday, I was very disappointed. I wish I would have just bought an HAIII body for my KL1 and a new tailcap. I'd have two nice, bright and small flashlights. Neither being plastic. |
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Posted: 5/11/2005 9:32:59 AM EDT
[#36]
tag for later
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Posted: 5/11/2005 10:00:08 AM EDT
[#37]
Even though the shock bezel is recommended, I put over 4000 rounds through my M4 last year in Iraq with a G2 mounted in a Samco mount with no shock bezel and it still works with the orginal bulb. Never had a problem.
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Posted: 5/11/2005 1:25:55 PM EDT
[#38]
On the E series (and the L4 & Scout Light) the ridge is at the tailcap not the bezel, so it is not the same as with a true weaponslight. The E series do have a very tight internal fit so battery recoil is less of an issue but the lamp is not isolated nor does it have a shock isolated bezel. |
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Posted: 5/11/2005 1:42:14 PM EDT
[#39]
Calvin, are there any of the handheld SF models which have the battery isolation ridge at the bezel end of the body? I'm thinking the M2 and M3 might, is that correct? Karl |
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Posted: 5/18/2005 4:25:18 PM EDT
[#40]
Which 1" Weaver rings did you use? I just bought some Weaver Quad Lock rings at Wally-World, but my G2 wont' fit and let it screw down properly. It's designed with a 210 degree angle for the top part of the ring, so maybe that's the problem?
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Posted: 5/18/2005 5:52:41 PM EDT
[#41]
Remember the lamp gets more brittle as it heats up. If you're just shooting without using it much you probably will never have a problem. If you leave it on for extended periods of time and then dump a mag, expect the bulbs' life to be short.
I don't know if taping batteries together is a good idea because it makes it a single solid mass which all impacts the bulb at the same time. Battery isolation is ideal but if you can't do that you can dampen the batteries' movement by creating slightly more friction against the inside of the body. Wrap a single layer of electrical tape (I only use the good stuff - 3M) around the batteries to increase their diameter. The batteries will still move freely (they NEED to for the light to work) but they aren't slick sliding around like butter. |
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Posted: 5/18/2005 6:26:01 PM EDT
[#42]
Just a thought, but perhaps the plastic frame is giving a benefit during recoil due to flex in the plastic?
I put a 6P on my wife's AR. We have not experienced any problems with it either, though I imagine the recoil of a 223/556 is minor enough that it doesn't affect it too badly. That said, I suppose dropping the gun or banging it around might. On a different subject, I have a C3 that I was thinking about putting on an AR. Any thoughts on mounting it to a rail? With it's square sides, I'm not sure it will work to use a scope ring or any of the usual circular type light mounts on the market? |
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Posted: 5/18/2005 6:33:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Karl, I just saw the above, the M2, M3 & M4 don't have battery isolation only s.i. bezels. If you want a light that's got battery isolation & a shock isolated bezel you're best, most affordable choices are the following: Laser Devices OP-6 & OP-9 Surefire Classic weaponslight 6v or 9v Surefire custom build 9v Millennium 
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Posted: 5/18/2005 6:42:49 PM EDT
[#44]
You can use a 1"ring it will bite on the 4 sides well enough. |
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Posted: 5/19/2005 1:58:22 AM EDT
[#45]
BF, same no-isolation on the pentagon lights?
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Posted: 5/19/2005 5:45:25 AM EDT
[#46]
Calvin-
What'd you use to build the custom 9v? Aleph parts? Those are E-size parts, a C-Size step-up agdapter and a C Turbohead? |
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Posted: 5/19/2005 7:02:02 AM EDT
[#47]
Yes, there's battery isolation on the Pentagon lights but not a shock isolated bezel. However, the lamps fit extremely tight in the Pentagon bezels so vibrations should be minimal. |
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Posted: 5/19/2005 7:13:05 AM EDT
[#48]
Those are all SF parts and are 1" body, it's built from the new 9v Millennium format shotgun module, Classic weaponslight subspacer and then any std. size t/c will fit it (Z48, Z58, SW02, SU0x, XM0x, UM0x). This light is essentially an M3 Combatlight minus the combat grip but WITH battery isolation yet it's cheaper than an M3. You can also convert it to an M4 by using a turbohead and A19 adapter. |
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Posted: 5/19/2005 7:52:32 AM EDT
[#49]
Oh. I guess I just assumed it wouldn't work very well. I guess I'll have to give it a try. Thanks. I have to admit that I don't know a lot about the customization of flashlights. I have two SF 6R's that I have turned into 6P's and always wondered if I could turn them into 9v lights somehow. Any idea if this is possible? I think the tube is longer than 3 batteries are and the lamp would not take that many volts, but I see that SF sells a metal spacer that one can use to put two batteries in the full length 6R tube rather than taking the extension off. I wonder if it's possible to make a smaller spacer, get a 9volt lamp and use three batteries? |
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Posted: 5/19/2005 7:52:55 AM EDT
[#50]
shotgun module and subspacer?
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