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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/8/2005 8:55:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 9:01:38 PM EDT by FTCOP]
Ok, I am sure this has been discussed in the past, but I have a few questions regarding the pro's and con's of shorter barrel lengths.

I have a RRA that I use as a patrol carbine. It has the standard 16" 1/9 RRA barrel on top of which an ACOG sits waiting for duty.. (I already have an Eotech for the shorty).

I am looking to switch to a 10.5" 1/7 CMMG barrel which I think will better suit my needs.

1) What is your feedback on the CMMG product?

2) Is it true the 10.5" barrel will decrease the velocity and thus reduce my chances for over penetration? This is obviously a huge concern if we, god forbid, have an active shooter at a school/workplace where students may be in lockdown on the other side of a cinderblock wall or classroom door.

It seems that for some CQB / buliding search applications, high risk traffic stops and other "General" patrol officer work, the 10.5" would work well.

Please offer any feedback you have and from what background you are offering the experience. hug.gif

I know the round specs are an issue here, so we shoot the Federal TRU 55 gr. BTHP, no exceptions.

Thanks in advance for the info!


Link Posted: 9/8/2005 9:02:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 9:06:02 PM EDT by topgunpilot20]
I don't have any personal experience with CMMG, so i'll let others chime in about that. The shorter barrel will reduce your velocity and INCREASE the chance of overpenetration. Why? Because a 5.56 FMJ round going faster than about 2600 fps will fragment in human tissue. Once the velocity drops below this, it is more likely to pass through without fragmenting. A 10.5 will reduce the range at which the round will fragment. It should work ok at room distance though. A heavier round like 75gr TAP will increase the fragmentation range, though it may not stabilize in a 10.5" 1/9 twist barrel.

ETA: Read the Ammo Oracle if you haven't. It will answer most questions about the 5.56mm ballistics.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 9:08:48 PM EDT
Have you considered Noveske or LMT shorties? They would be my choice.

75 grain TAP is the ammo to go with.

The lower the velocity the more like the round is to go through a person without significant damage. Thus you might hit somebody on the other side of a all, but the bullet will not likely fragment.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 9:31:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 9:32:40 PM EDT by FTCOP]
Just looked at the Noveske barrel and it looks like a really nice product. I found them one GandRTactical's website and Grant is a great guy to work with so I may go that direction.

If I went with this 10.5" barrel, I have no option to switch to the 75 gr TAP...That decision was made above my paygrade...


Any more input???
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 9:35:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FTCOP:
Just looked at the Noveske barrel and it looks like a really nice product. I found them one GandRTactical's website and Grant is a great guy to work with so I may go that direction.

If I went with this 10.5" barrel, I have no option to switch to the 75 gr TAP...That decision was made above my paygrade...


Any more input???



If I couldn't use 75 grain ammo my preference would be for a Colt 11.5 with M193. Or an M4.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 9:53:40 PM EDT
Any sources for the Colt 11.5"?
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 9:54:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 9:56:35 PM EDT by gmtmaster]
I have an 11.5" on my BM SBR and PAWS M16.. Horribly devastating at room size range.( the M16) I shoot primarily 55 to 62gr. HP as I shoot mainly at an indoor range with these 2 guns. Obviously these are never going to be used at anything but paper or the like though. BTW both bbls are 1/9..
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:04:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FTCOP:
Any sources for the Colt 11.5"?



You are going to need an LE connection for that, since civilians can't be trusted.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:06:21 PM EDT
I don't know a whole lot about the round you are using. You may be able to use a 10.5.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:08:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 10:10:24 PM EDT by FTCOP]
Im the LE connection. All I have to do is find the thing. As for the Novesky barrel, it looks really nice and I found several articles about them and evrything was very positive. It looks like a high quality product, nothing against the CMMG or anything else.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:08:40 PM EDT
Post a WTB on Sturmgewehr.com

You may find what you need if you cant find it elsewhere.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:12:15 PM EDT
Bushmaster can also provide a 1/7 11.5" .. Email tech support.. Jim Eden will help you.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:14:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FTCOP:
Im the LE connection. All I have to do is find the thing. As for the Novesky barrel, it looks really nice and I found several articles about them and evrything was very positive. It looks like a high quality product, nothing against the CMMG or anything else.



I know you are a cop, but some dealers can be... difficult. You are going to need a registered lower to put it on. It can be the departments or yours. Check out SAW sales. Somebody is selling M4 Commandos in the EE, you could check with them

As for the ammo, you need to see what Gary Roberts says about it. Some rounds perform OK out of the shorties, some do not, and I am unfamiliar with that round.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:15:59 PM EDT
Ok, I will keep that in mind as well. I just checked out that other website that gmtmaster mentiioned. I have a headache already and the way that site is layed out didn't help. I will take a closer look at a later time.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:18:10 PM EDT
A registered lower? Explain that part... I will get the required paperwork if I find what I want, but whats up with the "Registered lower"
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:19:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FTCOP:
Ok, I will keep that in mind as well. I just checked out that other website that gmtmaster mentiioned. I have a headache already and the way that site is layed out didn't help. I will take a closer look at a later time.



Yeah.. Its a little hard to read.. Do give Bushmaster a try....
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:20:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FTCOP:
A registered lower? Explain that part... I will get the required paperwork if I find what I want, but whats up with the "Registered lower"



Click over to the M16 forum, and read the SBR FAQ thatll tell you what you need to know. Need any help please let us know..

John
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:20:53 PM EDT
Ok, what's SAW Sales? This is quite an education I am getting this AM.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:22:17 PM EDT
Colt dealer.... Pretty much anything you need Parts, accessories.. etc.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:24:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FTCOP:
Ok, what's SAW Sales? This is quite an education I am getting this AM.



sawlesales.com

Ken Elmore sells Colt rifles and parts. Judging by what he charges, he is very proud of them.

My experience with shorite as behind an LMT MRP 10.5, and it worked once I threw a Colt bolt carrier in it. I've seen good things from Noveske, and Colt is an old standby. Bushy has a pretty good reputation.

Whatever you get, use an M16 carrier and H2 (extra heavy) buffer.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:25:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 10:25:45 PM EDT by 556Shorty]

Originally Posted By FTCOP:
Ok, what's SAW Sales? This is quite an education I am getting this AM.


I think they mean http://www.sawlesales.com
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:30:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 10:30:38 PM EDT by FTCOP]
Yea, for what they charge for the Colt 11.5" barrel it better eject silver dollars when I fire it.
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 10:37:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 10:46:12 PM EDT by gmtmaster]
Id search a bit more.. He is pricey. Noveske is a good route.. Like I said above Ive got an 11.5" with an A2 on my SBR that is a 100% Bushmaster . My Oly M16 has a Marietta contract upper with an 11.5" of some sort. Im not sure of the brand. Alot of the shorties are marked where it is hidden under the handguards.. I cant find a mark on it. I can tell its a 1/9 by looking down the bore. Ill pick up a 1/7 Bushmaster or one of the CMMG 11.5" Colts the next time around. The Equipment Exchange on this board is a good place to look.. Also try subguns.com

John

ETA: +1 on the M16 carrier.. Also consider the Mcfarland gas rings, and a Dfender.. All of this will help with reliability, and since shorties can be finnicky.. It cant hurt.. I just shoot paper.. If I have a FTE, I just fix the jam.. Paper doesnt shoot back..
Link Posted: 9/8/2005 11:17:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2005 11:35:37 PM EDT by Combat_Jack]
A registered lower is on that is in the NFA registry. You can get one yourself, in many states, or you can have your department register a lower for you. It will cost them nothing; you would have to pay $200.

The M16 carrier, Extractor O-ring (defender) and if you want you could use a Noveske KFH to alleviate some of the problems with some shorties that make them jam up.

Another thing. If your department has any 1033 program rifles, they are already registered as machine guns. You can drop a shorty upper right on them legally.
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