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Posted: 12/14/2013 9:33:57 AM EST
My Colt AR-15 is gouging the hell out of my bullets as they run through the feed ramps in the barrel extension.

I have tried tweaking the mags and that has helped some, but not enough.

Do I need a New different style barrel extension?

If so what wold you suggest?
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 9:38:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2013 9:39:36 AM EST by TaylorWSO]
you can stone the edges of the bottom two lugs to break the edge if you're that worried.

otherwise the 60K pressure and barrel will iron them out

eta besides visual dissatisfaction is it causing problem
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 9:59:39 AM EST
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Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
you can stone the edges of the bottom two lugs to break the edge if you're that worried.

otherwise the 60K pressure and barrel will iron them out

eta besides visual dissatisfaction is it causing problem
View Quote


It actually is causing feeding issues. Not so much when firing rounds, but the first one out of the mag will hang up and not feed.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 10:08:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2013 10:14:48 AM EST by AR911556]
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Originally Posted By steve4102:


It actually is causing feeding issues. Not so much when firing rounds, but the first one out of the mag will hang up and not feed.
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Originally Posted By steve4102:
Originally Posted By TaylorWSO:
you can stone the edges of the bottom two lugs to break the edge if you're that worried.

otherwise the 60K pressure and barrel will iron them out

eta besides visual dissatisfaction is it causing problem


It actually is causing feeding issues. Not so much when firing rounds, but the first one out of the mag will hang up and not feed.


The buffer spring is what pushes the bolt home, It does the same job when firing & chambering the first round IF you don't ride the charging handle. If you chanber a round & don't fire it then eject it, It will have scratches that is normal.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 10:23:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2013 10:24:35 AM EST by steve4102]
I load the mag into the rifle, push the mag release, the first round pig jams into the feed ramps and stops dead it it's tracks. The bullet is gouged all to hell.

If I fire a few rounds and remove a bullet that has been fire-feed it gouged all to hell.
These are 55gr Hornady FMJ seated to cannelure and crimped.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 10:33:22 AM EST
Originally Posted By steve4102:
Do I need a New different style barrel extension?

If so what wold you suggest?
View Quote


There are no "styles" of barrel extensions, and the end user (like you and me) probably do not have the stuff to change a BE.

Can you post pics of the barrel extension and feed ramps?

Link Posted: 12/14/2013 11:05:26 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Avidrook:


There are no "styles" of barrel extensions, and the end user (like you and me) probably do not have the stuff to change a BE.

Can you post pics of the barrel extension and feed ramps?

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Originally Posted By Avidrook:
Originally Posted By steve4102:
Do I need a New different style barrel extension?

If so what wold you suggest?


There are no "styles" of barrel extensions, and the end user (like you and me) probably do not have the stuff to change a BE.

Can you post pics of the barrel extension and feed ramps?


'
I'll Try.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 11:09:19 AM EST
is this anew colt AR or an Old Colt AR?

If you bought it used and it has a flat top Upper, check the feed ramps. I could be that the upper has M4 cuts and the barrel extension does not.

that will cause an edge.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 11:10:28 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Mach:
is this anew colt AR or an Old Colt AR?

If you bought it used and it has a flat top Upper, check the feed ramps. I could be that the upper has M4 cuts and the barrel extension does not.

that will cause an edge.
View Quote


That's why the request for pictures.

Link Posted: 12/14/2013 11:14:56 AM EST
this is what you are looking for.

which one do you have?


Link Posted: 12/14/2013 11:16:32 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Avidrook:


That's why the request for pictures.

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Originally Posted By Avidrook:
Originally Posted By Mach:
is this anew colt AR or an Old Colt AR?

If you bought it used and it has a flat top Upper, check the feed ramps. I could be that the upper has M4 cuts and the barrel extension does not.

that will cause an edge.


That's why the request for pictures.



yes but most people are not going to be able to take good enough pics to tell.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 11:20:41 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Mach:


yes but most people are not going to be able to take good enough pics to tell.
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Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By Avidrook:
Originally Posted By Mach:
is this anew colt AR or an Old Colt AR?

If you bought it used and it has a flat top Upper, check the feed ramps. I could be that the upper has M4 cuts and the barrel extension does not.

that will cause an edge.


That's why the request for pictures.



yes but most people are not going to be able to take good enough pics to tell.


Well, I have thoughts on that, but COC prevents me from expressing them.

Link Posted: 12/14/2013 11:33:39 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Avidrook:


Well, I have thoughts on that, but COC prevents me from expressing them.

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Originally Posted By Avidrook:
Originally Posted By Mach:
Originally Posted By Avidrook:
Originally Posted By Mach:
is this anew colt AR or an Old Colt AR?

If you bought it used and it has a flat top Upper, check the feed ramps. I could be that the upper has M4 cuts and the barrel extension does not.

that will cause an edge.


That's why the request for pictures.



yes but most people are not going to be able to take good enough pics to tell.


Well, I have thoughts on that, but COC prevents me from expressing them.



I wouldn't exactly call him wrong. That's a hard area to get common cameras to focus on.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 11:39:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2013 11:40:24 AM EST by Mach]
hard to get the focus and lighting correct enough to see the detail required
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 11:42:24 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Mach:
hard to get the focus and lighting correct enough to see the detail required
View Quote


Then look at the above post with a picture and compare them to yours.

Which does it look like?

Link Posted: 12/14/2013 12:27:48 PM EST
If these are not going to work I will try again.

The shiny at the bottom of the feed ramp is what a local Gunsmith did a few days ago. Hope he didn't f-things up to bad.

.



Link Posted: 12/14/2013 12:39:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2013 12:40:24 PM EST by Rule_of_Two]
You have an M4 extension and a rifle receiver which your gunsmith tried to make into an "M4 receiver".

The gunsmith's extra work may be causing the extra scratching. Why did you have him do that anyway? If you chamber a round and eject it without firing the bullet will have scratches.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 1:01:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2013 1:02:32 PM EST by Avidrook]
Kind of hard to tell from the photos, but the receiver ramps look buggered.

Do the receiver cuts look "homemade" to your eye? Especially the left one.

Again, how do they compare to the posted photo above?

ETA: see you had a gun plumber do the work. Yep he screwed up.

Link Posted: 12/14/2013 1:46:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2013 1:47:39 PM EST by steve4102]
If you look close you can see copper build up on the corners of the square bolt lug slots. This copper you see here is from chambering 3 rounds.

That is where the round will hang up. The bullet appears to be driving itself into the square opening of the bolt lug slot?
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 1:59:53 PM EST
So you have a rifle....claim its not feeding well....and then many posts later tell us you had some gun smith fuck up the Feed ramps.

The gun smith fucked up your rifle. Buy a stripped upper. Send it and the fucked upper to a REPUTABLE KNOWN BLACK RIFLE FRIENDLY GUNSMITH an have them fix it. I'd tell you to try and get your money back from the gunsmith but hell fight it and it will be a hassle.

Time and time again we are shown that "gun smiths that spend 90% of their time sighting in fudd guns and doing other various fudd work" have no business dealing with modern arms.

Link Posted: 12/14/2013 2:05:31 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Dannofree:
So you have a rifle....claim its not feeding well....and then many posts later tell us you had some gun smith fuck up the Feed ramps.

The gun smith fucked up your rifle. Buy a stripped upper. Send it and the fucked upper to a REPUTABLE KNOWN BLACK RIFLE FRIENDLY GUNSMITH an have them fix it. I'd tell you to try and get your money back from the gunsmith but hell fight it and it will be a hassle.

Time and time again we are shown that "gun smiths that spend 90% of their time sighting in fudd guns and doing other various fudd work" have no business dealing with modern arms.

View Quote


No, not really.

This thing would not feed the first round off the mag at all when it was New. I always had to force it with the forward assist.

I brought it to him to check out the problem. He said he would do some polishing. It feeds better now, not great, but better. He did not fuck it up any more than it was right from the get go.
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 2:10:23 PM EST
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Originally Posted By steve4102:


No, not really.

This thing would not feed the first round off the mag at all when it was New. I always had to force it with the forward assist.

I brought it to him to check out the problem. He said he would do some polishing. It feeds better now, not great, but better. He did not fuck it up any more than it was right from the get go.
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Originally Posted By steve4102:
Originally Posted By Dannofree:
So you have a rifle....claim its not feeding well....and then many posts later tell us you had some gun smith fuck up the Feed ramps.

The gun smith fucked up your rifle. Buy a stripped upper. Send it and the fucked upper to a REPUTABLE KNOWN BLACK RIFLE FRIENDLY GUNSMITH an have them fix it. I'd tell you to try and get your money back from the gunsmith but hell fight it and it will be a hassle.

Time and time again we are shown that "gun smiths that spend 90% of their time sighting in fudd guns and doing other various fudd work" have no business dealing with modern arms.



No, not really.

This thing would not feed the first round off the mag at all when it was New. I always had to force it with the forward assist.

I brought it to him to check out the problem. He said he would do some polishing. It feeds better now, not great, but better. He did not fuck it up any more than it was right from the get go.


I wouldn't be too sure of that

Sorry, it's the truth.

Link Posted: 12/14/2013 2:32:38 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Avidrook:


I wouldn't be too sure of that

Sorry, it's the truth.

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Originally Posted By Avidrook:
Originally Posted By steve4102:
Originally Posted By Dannofree:
So you have a rifle....claim its not feeding well....and then many posts later tell us you had some gun smith fuck up the Feed ramps.

The gun smith fucked up your rifle. Buy a stripped upper. Send it and the fucked upper to a REPUTABLE KNOWN BLACK RIFLE FRIENDLY GUNSMITH an have them fix it. I'd tell you to try and get your money back from the gunsmith but hell fight it and it will be a hassle.

Time and time again we are shown that "gun smiths that spend 90% of their time sighting in fudd guns and doing other various fudd work" have no business dealing with modern arms.



No, not really.

This thing would not feed the first round off the mag at all when it was New. I always had to force it with the forward assist.

I brought it to him to check out the problem. He said he would do some polishing. It feeds better now, not great, but better. He did not fuck it up any more than it was right from the get go.


I wouldn't be too sure of that

Sorry, it's the truth.



How so?

I'm going to see him tomorrow to discus this. What did that little polish job screw up?
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 6:56:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2013 7:19:08 PM EST by Mach]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By steve4102:


No, not really.

This thing would not feed the first round off the mag at all when it was New. I always had to force it with the forward assist.

I brought it to him to check out the problem. He said he would do some polishing. It feeds better now, not great, but better. He did not fuck it up any more than it was right from the get go.
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Originally Posted By steve4102:
Originally Posted By Dannofree:
So you have a rifle....claim its not feeding well....and then many posts later tell us you had some gun smith fuck up the Feed ramps.

The gun smith fucked up your rifle. Buy a stripped upper. Send it and the fucked upper to a REPUTABLE KNOWN BLACK RIFLE FRIENDLY GUNSMITH an have them fix it. I'd tell you to try and get your money back from the gunsmith but hell fight it and it will be a hassle.

Time and time again we are shown that "gun smiths that spend 90% of their time sighting in fudd guns and doing other various fudd work" have no business dealing with modern arms.



No, not really.

This thing would not feed the first round off the mag at all when it was New. I always had to force it with the forward assist.

I brought it to him to check out the problem. He said he would do some polishing. It feeds better now, not great, but better. He did not fuck it up any more than it was right from the get go.



did you buy this new or just new to you?

that does not appear to be a factory Colt.

It looks like the barrel extension WAS a rifle cut and your smith tried to make M4 cuts on the barrel extensions except he did not round out the inner part that is still square on the center area between the cuts, he just widened the part that contacts the receiver. As a result you have an M4 cut width against the receiver and then the cut gets too narrow and square. Look at the picture I posted above. Look at the inner part of the rifle cut and the center Metal between the cuts. That is what you have, then look at the M4 cut against the receiver, that is almost what you have, but not wide or deep enough.

That is what it looks like to me. He screwed up your barrel extension and it looks like he did it without taking the barrel off the receiver, which is why the part of the receiver by the cuts is shiny.

The new sorta M4 cuts on the barrel extension need to be rounded at the inside corners.


what are the markings on the barrel?
Link Posted: 12/14/2013 7:32:51 PM EST
another question.

have you oiled the BCG?

If you are running it dry it might have too much friction and not have enough velocity to chamber properly. A dry BCG will cause rounds to het hung up and not chamber, much like riding the charging handle.
Link Posted: 12/15/2013 1:52:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/15/2013 2:11:11 AM EST by jmreagan]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By steve4102:


No, not really.

This thing would not feed the first round off the mag at all when it was New. I always had to force it with the forward assist.

I brought it to him to check out the problem. He said he would do some polishing. It feeds better now, not great, but better. He did not fuck it up any more than it was right from the get go.
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Originally Posted By steve4102:
Originally Posted By Dannofree:
So you have a rifle....claim its not feeding well....and then many posts later tell us you had some gun smith fuck up the Feed ramps.

The gun smith fucked up your rifle. Buy a stripped upper. Send it and the fucked upper to a REPUTABLE KNOWN BLACK RIFLE FRIENDLY GUNSMITH an have them fix it. I'd tell you to try and get your money back from the gunsmith but hell fight it and it will be a hassle.

Time and time again we are shown that "gun smiths that spend 90% of their time sighting in fudd guns and doing other various fudd work" have no business dealing with modern arms.



No, not really.

This thing would not feed the first round off the mag at all when it was New. I always had to force it with the forward assist.

I brought it to him to check out the problem. He said he would do some polishing. It feeds better now, not great, but better. He did not fuck it up any more than it was right from the get go.


Not trying to be harsh here OP as I understand your frustrated and I would be too. However, this semi-retarded "Gunsmith" certainly didn't do you any favors with his homemade dremel, polishing stones, and mad skills... You could have returned the rifle for a direct replacement from Colt, BEFORE said gunsmith, and I'll use that term loosely, gunsmith, went to work on this upper receiver and barrel extension... Not so much now!

ETA: I'm just realizing that this rifle was not a new factory Colt. Either way, you can't return that receiver or barrel now to any vendor/manufacturer for a refund OP. Just learn from this and move on, preferable to a "real Gunsmith."
Link Posted: 12/15/2013 2:38:35 AM EST
The rifle was ordered and purchased New in Box back in 2009.



Barrel markings.

Link Posted: 12/15/2013 3:45:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/15/2013 3:55:46 AM EST by Mach]
interesting that you bought in new in 2009 and it does not look like it has an M4 cut receiver.

Does the front of the receiver by where the barrel attaches say M4 or 4?

Have you been shooting it with the BCG oiled or dry?

Maybe my previous post on the smith cutting the barrel extension is way off base, but that does not look like normal extension M4 cuts to me.

Is that a 16 inch barrel? It looks like it.
Link Posted: 12/15/2013 4:07:08 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Mach:
interesting that you bought in new in 2009 and it does not look like it has an M4 cut receiver.

Does the front of the receiver by where the barrel attaches say M4? I'll look after church and let ya know.

Have you been shooting it with the BCG oiled or dry? Wet.

Maybe my previous post on the smith cutting the barrel extension is way off base, but that does not look like normal extension M4 cuts to me.

Is that a 16 inch barrel? It looks like it Yes 16 inches .
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I have been loading and shooting this since it was new. I always had issues with the first round hanging up, especially when it would dry out some.

What stated this whole deal was my son took out with friends and an ammo boxed chucked full of range/plinking ammo.

He came home and told me the first round was jamming bad and it needed to be cleaned and lubed. The ammo box was severally drained.

I took it apart, cleaned the hell out of it a lubed the shit out of it. A few days later I took it to the gravel pit for a test run. The first round was hanging up more than usual. That is when I really paid attention and saw the deep gouges in the bullet jackets.

That is when I called the "Smith" and asked him to check it out. Check out meaning something wrong with the BE, or with the Mags or whatever the cause.

He called and said the polished the feed rams and it was GTG.

It's not GTG, it's better and it cycles by hand better, but there are still deep gouges in the bullets.

Should I polish away some material on the lugs that have the copper build up on them (see photo above)?
Link Posted: 12/15/2013 4:27:19 AM EST
I don't know. I have to think about this.

Scratched bullets are normal to some extent.

I would not touch the feed ramps without trying some other stuff first.

Make sure the buffer spring is oiled.

Make sure you are not riding the charging handle when chambering a round, pretty sure you said you are not.

Maybe he just polished the feed ramps without changing the contour and you do have M4 cuts in the receiver but because he took off the anodizing on the aluminum it looks funny and is hard to see because of the camera flash or lighting.

maybe the mag spring is weak, or if an aluminum mag, maybe it has spurs on the inside causing loss of spring power or tilting the follower or is dirty.

Can you feel or see a lip or edge between the receiver and the barrel extension where the cuts meet? It should be relatively smooth.

Check the Bolt and make sure it fits into the barrel extension smoothly with out a round being chambered.

When you cleaned it, did you clean the bolt and the inside of the carrier where the bolt goes? If it is gummed up it could be restricting the timing to fit into the barrel extension.

when a round gets hung up, does it stop before the bullet starts to go into the chamber? or is it getting stopped partially into the chamber? Is it possible the chamber is gunked up from shooting steel cased ammo and needs to be cleaned? Do you get FTE malfunctions too or just failure to feed.


Link Posted: 12/15/2013 4:42:49 AM EST
When it used to hang up, it would stop with the bullet pig jammed into the square cut of the bolt lug.

It does not do that as bad or as often now, but the square sharp corners of the bolt lug are still gouging the bullets. You can see the copper left behind in the photos above.

It cycles fine, fast and furious with no ammo.

I have several mags, some are almost unused, results are all the same.
Link Posted: 12/15/2013 6:32:25 AM EST
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Originally Posted By steve4102:
When it used to hang up, it would stop with the bullet pig jammed into the square cut of the bolt lug.

It does not do that as bad or as often now, but the square sharp corners of the bolt lug are still gouging the bullets. You can see the copper left behind in the photos above.

It cycles fine, fast and furious with no ammo.

I have several mags, some are almost unused, results are all the same.
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Can we get some better squared up, and clear pictures of the barrel extension and the receiver cuts? We will need them to further diagnose OP. That looks to be a heavy contour carbine barrel, without a flash hider, and without the GL cut. So it is plausible it might have had an M4 lower receiver with the M4 cuts to begin with. Correct OP??? If so, maybe the barrel extension is canted to begin with due to a misaligned index pin. That would place the whole barrel extension timing off. I've certainly had that problem with a PSA CHF barrel... However, I can't tell because the pics of the BE and "M4 cuts" are of poor quality.
Link Posted: 12/15/2013 9:47:27 AM EST
Have you tried tightening the mag catch a half-turn?
Link Posted: 12/15/2013 11:35:05 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Imdelaw:
Have you tried tightening the mag catch a half-turn?
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Yes, I just did, not a half turn a full turn.

I also just polished the area of the bolt lugs that were collecting copper.

I'm good. It's more gooder now. Or is it more better now.

Anyhow, polishing that sharp square edge just a little and turning the mag latch in have solved the problem.

I hand cycled rounds through all eight of my mags and everything went smooth. There are still some slight scratches on the bullets, but no gouges and no feeding failures.

Thanks for the help.

Soon as it warms up I'm going to take it to the gravel pit for a test run. -2 to -15 is to cold for me, It is supposed to get above zero next week. if it does I'll run a shit ton of rounds through it and report back.

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