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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/31/2005 2:53:47 PM EDT


It looks like the rear aperature interferes with the sight picture less than if the BUIS was mounted behind the optic, which I tried and it worked, but does obscure the sight pic a bit; I was just wondering if anyone has tried it this way.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 2:58:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 2:59:11 PM EDT by Hellhound]
OK, I have a Larue BUIS as well and did the same thing with my ACOG, a la the Canadian BUIS.

There was a little fuzzy towards the lower portion of the field of view.

Actually no worse than if the fsb was obscuring the field of view.

I did not leave it there, just a little experiment thingie I did one day.

Anyone else do this?


ETA: The Larue BUIS .
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 3:16:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hellhound:
OK, I have a Larue BUIS as well and did the same thing with my ACOG, a la the Canadian BUIS.

There was a little fuzzy towards the lower portion of the field of view.

Actually no worse than if the fsb was obscuring the field of view.

I did not leave it there, just a little experiment thingie I did one day.

Anyone else do this?


ETA: The Larue BUIS .



Link Posted: 12/31/2005 3:39:33 PM EDT
Get an A.R.M.S. #38-EX Swan Sleeve and mount your Aimpoint at the muzzle end of the sleeve. The rear sight on the Swan Sleeve folds down out of the way, and having the Aimpoint mounted forward speeds up target aquisition. You'll never even notice the front sight through the Aimpoint, as your focus will be well beyond that point.

BTW, I don't think a fixed rear sight is really a BUIS. It's not a backup, its there all the time. A BUIS should fold down out of the way, so it can be used as a backup when necessary, but be out of the way when not needed. A Back Up Iron Sight (BUIS). What you have is a Permanant Iron Sight System (PISS).
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 3:40:23 PM EDT
Might make sense with the ACOG, but not with the aimpoint. Aimpoint should be farther forward.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 6:35:44 PM EDT
Don't PISS on my thread, Mike_AK

I have ARs with folding "BUIS" (rear AND front), but this rifle is meant to be a "simpler, more rugged" AR, just for Variety's sake, and to represent another design philosophy. Lots of the real HSLD guys run their rifles this way(with a PISS), so I don't feel like I'm behind the curve here.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 6:51:52 PM EDT
Fixed or folding it's still a BUIS because your optic is the primary sighting device. My KISS carbine has a cut carry handle behind an Aimpoint and I don't even notice it's there when I shoot because I am looking over it.
Link Posted: 12/31/2005 9:13:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2005 9:16:43 PM EDT by AyeGuy]
Roger that Bradd, when I had the Larue behind the Aimpoint (on the full spacer as pictured)shooting with both eyes open the rear sight was not as intrusive as I thought it'd be, because one eye sees the target unobscured and this image is combined (in the brain) with the eye that sees the red dot.

Still, I was thinking that the red dot would be even clearer if it was betwwen the eye and the BUIS.

But I could be wrong.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 11:18:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Fixed or folding it's still a BUIS because your optic is the primary sighting device. My KISS carbine has a cut carry handle behind an Aimpoint and I don't even notice it's there when I shoot because I am looking over it.



Looking over the rear sight would require changing your "cheek weld" on the stock. That's the true beauty of a co-witnessed optic/folding BUIS setup. You shoulder and anchor the weapon consistently every time, regardless of whether you are using the irons or the optic, which contributes to good marksmanship. Otherwise, who cares if the red dot sits on the post when you look through the aperture?
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 11:33:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mike_AK:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Fixed or folding it's still a BUIS because your optic is the primary sighting device. My KISS carbine has a cut carry handle behind an Aimpoint and I don't even notice it's there when I shoot because I am looking over it.



Looking over the rear sight would require changing your "cheek weld" on the stock. That's the true beauty of a co-witnessed optic/folding BUIS setup. You shoulder and anchor the weapon consistently every time, regardless of whether you are using the irons or the optic, which contributes to good marksmanship. Otherwise, who cares if the red dot sits on the post when you look through the aperture?



Red dots are parallax free so cheek weld is only an issue when using iron sights and magnified optics.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:08:18 PM EDT

Where can I find that particular Larue BUIS ?? I've been wanting to make a pretty

accurate C7A1(?) clone, with the BUIS in front of the Elcan . . . .
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 12:11:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARmory04:
Where can I find that particular Larue BUIS ?? I've been wanting to make a pretty

accurate C7A1(?) clone, with the BUIS in front of the Elcan . . . .



Most of the vendors are out of them right now. Here is a sight that more closely resembles the Canadian sight.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 7:45:13 PM EDT

Why thank you sir
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:32:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 7:33:59 AM EDT by Dace]

Originally Posted By Geohans:
Might make sense with the ACOG, but not with the aimpoint. Aimpoint should be farther forward.



What he said, when I look through my aimpoint I dont even notice the large LMT BUIS behind it. The farther forward you mount the aimpoint the less you notice anything but the dot.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:33:20 AM EDT
Looks great in front of the ACOG. I can see that being a really good idea. I assume the LaRue is sighted in and meant to be left in this spot in case the ACOG fails or is removed.?.

Looks okay in front of the Aimpoint too. Whatever works best for your eyes is what you should do.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:48:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Fixed or folding it's still a BUIS because your optic is the primary sighting device. My KISS carbine has a cut carry handle behind an Aimpoint and I don't even notice it's there when I shoot because I am looking over it.



So you are saying the rear sight on an A2 is a BUIS if you have an optic installed?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:52:17 AM EDT
What he said, when I look through my aimpoint I dont even notice the large LMT BUIS behind it. The farther forward you mount the aimpoint the less you notice anything but the dot.


Yes. And the further forward you mount the aperture of the iron sight, the smaller the aperture becomes relative to your field of view. It also reduces an already very short sight radius.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:56:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mike_AK:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Fixed or folding it's still a BUIS because your optic is the primary sighting device. My KISS carbine has a cut carry handle behind an Aimpoint and I don't even notice it's there when I shoot because I am looking over it.



So you are saying the rear sight on an A2 is a BUIS if you have an optic installed?



Yes. Back Up Iron Sight means an iron sight to be used if the primary sighting device fails. Fixed or folding has nothing to do with it.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:58:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mike_AK:
What he said, when I look through my aimpoint I dont even notice the large LMT BUIS behind it. The farther forward you mount the aimpoint the less you notice anything but the dot.


Yes. And the further forward you mount the aperture of the iron sight, the smaller the aperture becomes relative to your field of view. It also reduces an already very short sight radius.



Because the fixed sight is a BUIS you would move it to the rear position in the event of optic failure. Do you think the Canadians leave their fixed rear sights on the front of the receiver when they remove their Elcans?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:57:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 10:58:00 AM EDT by Dace]

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:

Originally Posted By Mike_AK:
What he said, when I look through my aimpoint I dont even notice the large LMT BUIS behind it. The farther forward you mount the aimpoint the less you notice anything but the dot.


Yes. And the further forward you mount the aperture of the iron sight, the smaller the aperture becomes relative to your field of view. It also reduces an already very short sight radius.



Because the fixed sight is a BUIS you would move it to the rear position in the event of optic failure. Do you think the Canadians leave their fixed rear sights on the front of the receiver when they remove their Elcans?



I dont know nor do I care. Comparing the Elcan to the Aimpoint is comparing apples to oranges. One is a magnified scope which needs proper eye relief while the other is a redot site which does not require eye relief. The point is the Elcan needs to be furhter towards the user because of the eye relief while the aimpoint works better farther away. So mounting your BUIS in front of the magnified scope makes sense as you need room to move the scope back and placement is more critical. I was just pointing out that the aimpoint works better the farther away it is from the user as you use both eyes open. There is no point or reason to mount a BUIS in front.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:03:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:

Originally Posted By Mike_AK:
What he said, when I look through my aimpoint I dont even notice the large LMT BUIS behind it. The farther forward you mount the aimpoint the less you notice anything but the dot.


Yes. And the further forward you mount the aperture of the iron sight, the smaller the aperture becomes relative to your field of view. It also reduces an already very short sight radius.



Because the fixed sight is a BUIS you would move it to the rear position in the event of optic failure. Do you think the Canadians leave their fixed rear sights on the front of the receiver when they remove their Elcans?



"OK, you hosers, put your rear sight in front of your optic so it gets in the way, eh. Then when your optic fails, you can waste time removing the back up sight and reinstalling it where should be."
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:08:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:

Originally Posted By Mike_AK:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Fixed or folding it's still a BUIS because your optic is the primary sighting device. My KISS carbine has a cut carry handle behind an Aimpoint and I don't even notice it's there when I shoot because I am looking over it.



So you are saying the rear sight on an A2 is a BUIS if you have an optic installed?



Yes. Back Up Iron Sight means an iron sight to be used if the primary sighting device fails. Fixed or folding has nothing to do with it.



So when you remove the optic, then it is no longer a BUIS, as it has become the primary sighting device? What if you never install an optic on your flattop, but have a BUIS installed...does that mean you can never use it, or perhaps the primary sighting mode is shooting from the hip, like the nonsense in your post?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:03:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 12:03:48 PM EDT by Bradd_D]

Originally Posted By Mike_AK:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:

Originally Posted By Mike_AK:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Fixed or folding it's still a BUIS because your optic is the primary sighting device. My KISS carbine has a cut carry handle behind an Aimpoint and I don't even notice it's there when I shoot because I am looking over it.



So you are saying the rear sight on an A2 is a BUIS if you have an optic installed?



Yes. Back Up Iron Sight means an iron sight to be used if the primary sighting device fails. Fixed or folding has nothing to do with it.



So when you remove the optic, then it is no longer a BUIS, as it has become the primary sighting device? What if you never install an optic on your flattop, but have a BUIS installed...does that mean you can never use it, or perhaps the primary sighting mode is shooting from the hip, like the nonsense in your post?



What is the difference between a folded rear sight that is only deployed when the optic fails and a fixed rear sight that is only deployed when the optic fails? Take your time...
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:09:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:

Originally Posted By Mike_AK:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:

Originally Posted By Mike_AK:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Fixed or folding it's still a BUIS because your optic is the primary sighting device. My KISS carbine has a cut carry handle behind an Aimpoint and I don't even notice it's there when I shoot because I am looking over it.



So you are saying the rear sight on an A2 is a BUIS if you have an optic installed?



Yes. Back Up Iron Sight means an iron sight to be used if the primary sighting device fails. Fixed or folding has nothing to do with it.



So when you remove the optic, then it is no longer a BUIS, as it has become the primary sighting device? What if you never install an optic on your flattop, but have a BUIS installed...does that mean you can never use it, or perhaps the primary sighting mode is shooting from the hip, like the nonsense in your post?



What is the difference between a folded rear sight that is only deployed when the optic fails and a fixed rear sight that is only deployed when the optic fails? Take your time...



One sticks up in your way when you are not using it, and the other does not. There...how'd I do?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 12:19:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mike_AK:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:

Originally Posted By Mike_AK:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:

Originally Posted By Mike_AK:

Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Fixed or folding it's still a BUIS because your optic is the primary sighting device. My KISS carbine has a cut carry handle behind an Aimpoint and I don't even notice it's there when I shoot because I am looking over it.



So you are saying the rear sight on an A2 is a BUIS if you have an optic installed?



Yes. Back Up Iron Sight means an iron sight to be used if the primary sighting device fails. Fixed or folding has nothing to do with it.



So when you remove the optic, then it is no longer a BUIS, as it has become the primary sighting device? What if you never install an optic on your flattop, but have a BUIS installed...does that mean you can never use it, or perhaps the primary sighting mode is shooting from the hip, like the nonsense in your post?



What is the difference between a folded rear sight that is only deployed when the optic fails and a fixed rear sight that is only deployed when the optic fails? Take your time...



One sticks up in your way when you are not using it, and the other does not. There...how'd I do?



Oh..I forgot one thing. The folding one is better!
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:05:51 PM EDT
Of course this brings up the argument of why not a folding front sight as well.

The Colt ACR, the first flat-top upper reciever AR, had a folding front sight since it was primarily an optics rifle (with an ELCAN!). The only reason we are not all running folding fronts is because of the conservatism of the military who did not ask for one on the M-4.

But there is also a valid school of thought that wants the most rugged rifle possible, which means fixed irons, even if they are not the primary sight system for the rifle; the fixed rear Larue is just about as strong as a built in carry-handle rear sight amd far stronger than any folder...I, being but a simple peasant, leave these matters to the Great Ones to decide and simply have three ARs: one rifle with standard fixed front sight base and built in carry hanlde rear, one rifle with standard fixed front sight base and a flat-top upper with the Larue rear BUIS (with an Aimpoint as PSS), and one rifle with folding front AND rear BUIS (and an ACOG as PSS).
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:30:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:
Of course this brings up the argument of why not a folding front sight as well.

The Colt ACR, the first flat-top upper reciever AR, had a folding front sight since it was primarily an optics rifle (with an ELCAN!). The only reason we are not all running folding fronts is because of the conservatism of the military who did not ask for one on the M-4.

But there is also a valid school of thought that wants the most rugged rifle possible, which means fixed irons, even if they are not the primary sight system for the rifle; the fixed rear Larue is just about as strong as a built in carry-handle rear sight amd far stronger than any folder...I, being but a simple peasant, leave these matters to the Great Ones to decide and simply have three ARs: one rifle with standard fixed front sight base and built in carry hanlde rear, one rifle with standard fixed front sight base and a flat-top upper with the Larue rear BUIS (with an Aimpoint as PSS), and one rifle with folding front AND rear BUIS (and an ACOG as PSS).



The thing is, with the fixed front, your focus point is beyond it so you really don't notice it. With a fixed rear, it is right in the way and blocks the view through the optic. Best setup in my opinion is folding rear and fixed front with forward mounted Aimpoint. Works great on my rifle. I'm personally not real impressed with the LaRue stuff. Maybe 'cause it has a picture of the puny little state of Texas on it. A real man's BUIS would have the Last Frontier stamped all over it. If you split Alaska in half, Texas would be the third largest state!
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