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Posted: 6/4/2003 8:35:19 AM EDT
I really want an EOtech, but I am thinking of trying out the Walmart BSA dot scope while I save for the EOtech.
It has rail attatchments and is $29.
Has anyone tried one? Will the recoil destroy it?
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:42:21 AM EDT
I have one on my daughters single shot .22 It's doing quite well, but for anything else? (I've seen in the past, unfavorable comments about 'em) You get what you pay for. I figured it was worth the gamble for her .22. so far so good.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:32:39 PM EDT
Save your $$$! There is a very good reason they are $29. They might be suitable for an air rifle, but I wouldn't even risk my $$$ on that!
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 3:36:58 PM EDT
I work at Gander Mountain, and we see alot of them come back. If you want a good red dot, get a Tasco (Pro-Point). They can be had for a little more money than a BSA, but they are fairly durable. I never thought I would recommend a Tasco anything to anyone, but I can say that the Pro-Points are decent for the money. BTW---I just got an EOTech 512 and LOVE it! You will not be disapointed when you get one.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:46:14 PM EDT
Everyone always likes to slam the BSA red dots. Don't get me wrong, they aren't high quality product, however I feel I got more than my 30 bucks out of it. I put one on my AR a couple months ago. Spent the day shooting clays on a hill at 50+ yards. It worked, held zero and was a lot of fun for several of the Houston crew.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 5:33:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 5:34:56 PM EDT by RussB]
I'm not one to knock a high quality item, and prefer them myself, BUT... There seems to be a bit of snobbery when it comes to optics...Yes the EOTech & Aimpoints are top notch, but if & when you're on a budget, less can do, and fit the bill quite well. I had a "cheap" ($29.95 @ Wal-Mart) Tasco red-dot on my AR...it worked VERY well, held zero, and comes with an integral mount (the Aimpoint ring costs as much as the Tasco!) 11X less expensive than an ML2! Get what you can afford, and never mind what other's think about it! [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/p4336f589b9932abd481c9b37fbe63d37/fbffccf7.jpg[/img] With the ML2...is it [i]REALLY[/i] worth 12 times more??? If I were going into combat... [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid64/p59fe5b5c0c2c5f7f773a0aff71546175/fc01b244.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 5:34:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 5:36:33 PM EDT by TomJefferson]
If you really want the EO save for it because if you buy the BSA you will be more than satisfied with it in function and durability and not ever buy the more expensive EO. I have two BSAs and they have worked flawlessly. One is on my shotgun and has seen some pretty good recoils. One of mine is the pushbutton and this I can not recommend for the button can be pressed by anything touching the gun and drain the battery. The batteries are the most common lithium on the market though. The light intensity is also a bit tricky since it is also push the botton. Durability on this model has been fine but the dot not as fine as the click adjustment models. The twist on 7 position has as fine a dot as any I've seen on anything. If you are an Iron sigts guy, A2, I highly recommend the BSA for drop in drop off but then I do that with scopes too. btw, Russ you beat me to the snobish optic comment.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:00:12 PM EDT
Just remember that you can't just slap a BSA or Tasco on a Flattop AR. The front sight will be in the way! You will also need to buy some type of riser(unless you have the RRA tactical handle). This will be a mininum of another 30 dollars. There, so now your up to 60 bucks. Still 200 shy of an eotech. Tough call, IMO, if you are really set on an eotech I would save up and get real good with my irons. If you have 30-60 bucks burning a hole in your pocket, buy that stinkin' BSA and beat the crap out of it! have fun.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:23:14 PM EDT
Thank you all, and especially Ridge for the tip that it will require a riser. It sits so low that the front sight actually blocks the sight? It won't co-witness when mounted directly to a flat-top? That may talk me out of it. I do like to buy quality, but I had so much fun shooting a pal's with a Tasco, I thought my family might get more interested in shooting it with a red dot vice the irons. Isn't Tasco out of business BTW? Hmmm....
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 5:47:50 AM EDT
STANMAN, thanks for the tip...had another guy who works at Gander tell me the same thing about the Propoint- said he has had one on his 12 ga for 5 years of hunting w/o loss of zero or even haing to replace the battery. For the price I can buy one and if it craps out I can buy another and still have cash left over! Optic snobbery? Here? No way! [;D] While we are talking about cheap gear, any one if a Tasco or BSA would cowitness with a cantilever mount (cheap Leapers one, of course- not a $$$ ARMS mount!)
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 5:48:06 AM EDT
Tascos are the best dot for the money IMO. Tascos can be used on flat tops without a riser. BSAs have the mount made on the tube, but with some model Tascos, you can use different rings. I have personally used a Tasco Pro-Point on a flat top with no riser. Tasco is not out of business, the company merged with another company, and they are still very much in business. They have a newly redesigned website: [url]www.tasco.com[/url]
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:44:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 8:46:48 AM EDT by Ridge]
I have personally used a Tasco Pro-Point on a flat top with no riser.
View Quote
How did you get this to work? My propoint dot hits the middle of the front sight tower when it is directly on the flattop. This is the best way I found to mount it. [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/047931.jpg[/img] You can pretty much tell by eye that if the sight was on the flattop it would be too low.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:47:15 AM EDT
A 30mm BSA will co-witness. I mounted it on a add-on rail attached to my handguards, worked great. [img]http://home.quixnet.net/~mcress/gun%20rack.jpg[/img] Mine is the one closest to the camera. [img]http://home.quixnet.net/~mcress/aim2.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 10:55:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ridge:
I have personally used a Tasco Pro-Point on a flat top with no riser.
View Quote
How did you get this to work? My propoint dot hits the middle of the front sight tower when it is directly on the flattop. This is the best way I found to mount it. [url]http://www.hunt101.com/img/047931.jpg[/url] You can pretty much tell by eye that if the sight was on the flattop it would be too low.
View Quote
The weapon I fired had a Tasco mounted in a set of high, aftermarket rings that were probably 1/4" to 1/3" higher than normal.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 11:01:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Thomas_A_Anderson:
Originally Posted By Ridge:
I have personally used a Tasco Pro-Point on a flat top with no riser.
View Quote
How did you get this to work? My propoint dot hits the middle of the front sight tower when it is directly on the flattop. This is the best way I found to mount it. [url]http://www.hunt101.com/img/047931.jpg[/url] You can pretty much tell by eye that if the sight was on the flattop it would be too low.
View Quote
The weapon I fired had a Tasco mounted in a set of high, aftermarket rings that were probably 1/4" to 1/3" higher than normal.
View Quote
Nice! I wonder where you can get those? I wonder if that propoint had a standard diameter like 30mm. I think mine is something funky like 33 or 35.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 1:46:15 PM EDT
The wal mart tasco will do the job untill you have govt type funds to spend. GG
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 2:33:40 PM EDT
I had something of a revalation last night: I could buy a TA11 ACOG for my M4, which would look cool and be really fun OR... Get that Olyarms 9mm w/lower I want, two cheap red dots and have about $100 left over. ! [:O] !
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 5:09:27 PM EDT
The Tasco ProPoint (PDP series) are pretty good. I got one on a trade (PDP2) and it works quite well. I would normally avoid any of the chinese stuff and this one is made in Taiwan. Due to the large number of computer parts that come out of Taiwan, their stuff has the potential to be slightly better than standard chinese fare. You can use a generic riser (possibly also of Asian origin) that are available in the $30 range. The PDP cowitnesses just fine on a generic riser mount. The dot sits right on top of the front sight. With careful shopping you might get out for $100 to $120 for the whole deal. As to battery life, mines still running after 6 months, even left it on overnight once (no kidding).
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 5:13:39 PM EDT
BSA is not BAD, [b]GOD DAMN IT!!![/b] I put one on a 10/22 and forgot it was in the back of the truck will the rifle gongs and frames.... Anyway, after a bumpy ride out of the shooting spot the BSA was all chewed up but still totally functional and the ZERO was still good!
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 6:07:44 PM EDT
I know it's not cool to like BSA's, but I have 2 and I love them ($29.95 at wally world). I have one on my bushy car 15 mounted to the carry handle and love the way it looks and functions. It hasn't lost zero with several thousand rounds put on it. My LEO carbine with a flat top works flawlessly also. I got a riser mount from TAPCO.COM for $14.99 and the BSA cowitnesses perfect with the buis. I've also had a tasco propoint on my Marlin 444 for a couple of years with lots of shots and no problems, believe me, that baby has some serious recoil. I too also thought about getting an Aimpoint but until one of these konks out, I think I'll stay with the BSA's. BASE-RIGGER
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 7:03:30 PM EDT
Interesting discussion. It seems there are more than a couple who are doing OK with a BSA or Tasco. Since both of these are tube types, do they have to be mounted aft or can you move them forward over the handguards?
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 9:42:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 9:42:53 PM EDT by Fenian]
I ran into a guy at my range who has a couple of M16s, with every mount and high $$ optic you can think of. Acogs, Elcans, Aimpoints, Trigicons...he's got more money tied up in the optics for those rifles than I spent on 3 ARs hehehe. He's a real nice guy, and always lets me shoot the rifles when I see him. I've had a chance to look through every one of those sights...and they're all VERY nice. He also had a Tasco ProPoint2, which had, without a doubt, the brightest dot I've ever seen. Even on a really bright day, I had to turn the intensity down several clicks to be able to use it. I was really impressed with the ProPoint, and for the $100 or so, I think it well worth the money. I've got a couple of the $30 BSAs, and they do indeed work fine. If you're not gonna be shooting full auto all day, or banging fence posts into the ground with your AR, I think you'll be happy with it until you can afford to spend more money. And, if you need a riser, Tapco has one for $15 that will work great. I've got one on my Armalite, with a $100 Simmons scope, and that rifle shoots below 1" all day. Hey look, if I made $100k a year, I'd have ACOGs on everything I own...but I don't. Sometimes you have to make do.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 8:47:46 AM EDT
Well spoken, Fenian!
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 2:09:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 2:10:38 PM EDT by BWhalen]
Hey all, I've got some feedback on BSA and Tasco red dot sights that may help. I've owned a PDP3 ProPoint for about 3 years now (on the same set of CR2032 batteries!) and it's by far the best sub-$100 red dot sight on the market right now ($99 at Midway). It's got a great set of rings that comes with it, and with a 1" riser will co-witness with the front sight of my A3 M4 just fine. The key to the dot's intensity IMO is that it uses two CR2032 batteries, while most other red dot sights out today like the 30mm BSA's use only one. On a whim I picked up one of those BSAs for my Buckmark .22 that I had robbed my PDP3 off of for the AR, and I was very disappointed in the dot intensity when outside on a sunny day. At setting "10", it's brightest, the dot was marginally visible on a bright background, while the PDP3 was totally visible and sharp on #6 of 10. I returned it to Walmart, and will wait and save the $$ for another PDP3. Oh, the BSA's are larger than the PDP3's 25mm tube, but on a rifle I find 25mm to be more than enough size for CQB ranges with both eyes open. YMMV. (pics of PDP3 on AR to come) Brian
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 3:38:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/6/2003 3:39:11 PM EDT by BWhalen]
Here's the pics of my PDP3-equipped M4. Hope these help to clarify what I meant by dot intensity and usefulness. Brian Left side [img]http://www.whalendesign.com/AR15/Left_AR.jpg[/img] Right side [img]http://www.whalendesign.com/AR15/Right_AR.jpg[/IMG] PDP3 on setting #6 (what my former BSA 30MM looked like maxed out on 10!) [img]http://www.whalendesign.com/AR15/PDP3-number6ofeleven.jpg[/IMG] PDP3 on Brightness #10 of 11 [img]http://www.whalendesign.com/AR15/PDP3_ontenofeleven.jpg[/IMG]
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 4:33:24 PM EDT
Thank you for the non-elitist opinions. It's nice to hear honest practical reviews of reasonably priced products. I'm starting to get tired of hearing the same old "my $500 brand X is way better that your $30 POS brand Y". (It better be or you just wasted $470!) Thanks again.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 7:07:47 PM EDT
I have a 30mm BSA, it is serviceable and will work until you save up for what you want. A couple other choices are a Russian Kobra sight, or better yet, a used Aimpoint. Keep your eyes open and you can find a used Comp M XD in the $150 range.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 3:14:38 PM EDT
Are only the newer style Propoints good (PDP2 and 3) or are the older Propoints good, too? You can get a Propoint for $28.91 plus shipping from CheaperThanDirt. Any reason I shouldn't snag one of those to play around with?
Link Posted: 6/13/2003 8:12:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/13/2003 8:15:25 AM EDT by KODoc]
[img]http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL99/1184889/2242371/27098817.jpg[/img] I don't throw my guns around and the most combat they see is when I occasionally dry fire at the TV screen during action movies like a kid. For the range, my 30mm BSA mounted on BM rail extension which co-witnesses the dot at the tip of my front sight, is just fine. If (when?) it ever breaks, I'll toss it.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 6:02:59 AM EDT
My buddy has a BSA on a 357 magnum and it functions well. It was accurate and handles the recoil fine. I don't think the batteries are as long last as a higher $$ scope, but then again you have enough saved for batteries.
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 8:14:51 PM EDT
Just a quick word on the BSA RD30's. We recently offered a patrol rifle instructor's course at the college I work (and teach). The outstanding shooter for the course (a complete qualification run, for time and score) was using a Hi-Point 9MM carbine with a BSA red dot sight. There were numerous weapons in the class that were 10X the cost of his little carbine, including AR-15's, Mini-14's, and even some lever guns. This class was full of professionals, too. It's not just the tool, it's who is operating it. And I just got one of the BSA's for my new Bushmaster. Just my $0.02 Sarge
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