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Posted: 11/16/2003 6:32:02 AM EDT
[#1]
I may be wrong ,but I do not think the dissipator has a full length gas system.
[>:/] |
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Posted: 11/16/2003 6:39:25 AM EDT
[#2]
Yes it does and full lenghth handguards also which for me makes it very comfortable to shoot. I also get better accuracy from my Dissipator than my M4 probably due to length of it and the placement of the sights. I'd buy one again.
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Posted: 11/16/2003 6:40:54 AM EDT
[#3]
I have an A3 Dissipater and a Bushy M4. The only diffo is the dissi is heavier. It's really accurate using the sights or a scope. I've got a scope on mine and I know this defeats the reason for the full handguard, but I can see a lot better thru the scope. I'm not a great shot but can get 1MOA with my Dissi.
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Posted: 11/16/2003 6:43:17 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Yes it does and full lenghth handguards also which for me makes it very comfortable to shoot. I also get better accuracy from my Dissipator than my M4 probably due to length of it and the placement of the sights. I'd buy one again. Very cool! Does it's recoil feel more like a 20" or the same as other 16"s? |
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Posted: 11/16/2003 6:56:14 AM EDT
[#5]
I love mine. It is a little heavier than my CAR style upper, so perceived recoil is less.
Mine does not have a full length gas tube. There is a gas block under the handguards in the same location that the gas port is located on a "standard" 16" configuration-The gas tube does not go to the sight block. |
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Posted: 11/16/2003 7:08:08 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: I love mine. It is a little heavier than my CAR style upper, so perceived recoil is less. Mine does not have a full length gas tube. There is a gas block under the handguards in the same location that the gas port is located on a "standard" 16" configuration-The gas tube does not go to the sight block. jimtash9 Member ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yes it does and full lenghth handguards also which for me makes it very comfortable to shoot. I also get better accuracy from my Dissipator than my M4 probably due to length of it and the placement of the sights. I'd buy one again. Are there gas sys options? |
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Posted: 11/16/2003 7:18:55 AM EDT
[#7]
Found this on the BM site " Its operating system's gas block is located behind the front sight base and under the ribbed Dissipator handguards."
Now what does this mean?? Std car gas, mid or full? |
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Posted: 11/16/2003 7:33:28 AM EDT
[#8]
I'm not up on all the possible dissy configurations, so if jimtash9 states he has a full length gas tube, I will defer to his experience-although I would like to know what make he has.
Mine is an Oly, and using a the very unscientific method of lining up a CAR with my Dissy, I can state, at least with an Oly, the gas system is CAR length. I haven't seen a Bushy personally, so I am not sure on their length. |
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Posted: 11/16/2003 8:01:58 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: I'm not up on all the possible dissy configurations, so if jimtash9 states he has a full length gas tube, I will defer to his experience-although I would like to know what make he has. Mine is an Oly, and using a the very unscientific method of lining up a CAR with my Dissy, I can state, at least with an Oly, the gas system is CAR length. I haven't seen a Bushy personally, so I am not sure on their length. Wow, I thought BM only made a Dissipator model! Got any pics of your Oly Dissipator style AR? |
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Posted: 11/16/2003 8:11:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Bushmaster Dissipators have a carbine length gas system. Other brands may have a different setup.
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid89/p6ccdbcf379b3fa7fe06e27874376945f/fa8c02c8.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid89/pc99ab33478a805c48962270415315c76/fa8c02ba.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 11/16/2003 8:17:41 AM EDT
[#11]
The Bushmaster DOES have the gas block under the handguard and NOT on the front sight.
This is fact and if you have one along with average intelligence you can clearly see this. One could possibly have another brand of Dissipator that could possibly have the gas block on the front sight but I don't think so because the gas block HAS to be located a certian lengh from the muzzle in order for the gas system to work. |
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Posted: 11/16/2003 8:18:26 AM EDT
[#12]
Thanks Hawkeye.
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Posted: 11/16/2003 8:31:20 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: The Bushmaster DOES have the gas block under the handguard and NOT on the front sight. This is fact and if you have one along with average intelligence you can clearly see this. One could possibly have another brand of Dissipator that could possibly have the gas block on the front sight but I don't think so because the gas block HAS to be located a certian lengh from the muzzle in order for the gas system to work. You can use a full length gas system, the gas port on the barrel just has to be opened up a bit larger than normal. |
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Posted: 11/16/2003 8:34:14 AM EDT
[#14]
If you want to make a Dissy from a 20" bbl send it to Kurts Kustom.
A dissipator will be my next project. |
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Posted: 11/16/2003 8:42:09 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: If you want to make a Dissy from a 20" bbl send it to Kurts Kustom. A dissipator will be my next project. Very cool! I can send a Colt MT6601 20" and get that 1/7 I prefer!! Any idea how much? Anyone here done it? |
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Posted: 11/16/2003 12:26:23 PM EDT
[#16]
Yeah, my dissipator (BM) has a carbine length gas system. I was looking on a website (can't remember which AR company) and they said they make their's with a full length gas system. As long as it functions, there's not much difference.
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Posted: 11/16/2003 1:34:17 PM EDT
[#17]
Mine has the short gas system also.. the dissy shoots very well, but I added a couple inches to mine with a Levang Linear Muzzle brake, it works very well.
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid75/p3a83d4c2d0f05d4a40f06812ae8f1720/fb5eba7a.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 11/16/2003 1:52:10 PM EDT
[#18]
[:O]
What kinda scope is that there die-tryin? |
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Posted: 11/16/2003 2:25:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: [:O] What kinda scope is that there die-tryin? AN/PVS-14 ...I think |
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Posted: 11/16/2003 2:26:32 PM EDT
[#20]
LoL..Yukon (or OSprey) NV, its 1st gen, it actually does pretty well for the price, it has [red]RED[/red] reticles that are adjustable dimmer or brighter, uses AA batts, very user friendly with built in IR.
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Posted: 11/16/2003 3:10:56 PM EDT
[#21]
Great rifle! I have two,a Bushmaster with heavy barrel, and one I built with Rock River parts and the m4 profile barrel Bushmaster made up that not many people bought.It's a sweet rifle it's the one I pick up first.
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Posted: 11/16/2003 8:49:39 PM EDT
[#22]
I really like my Dissy, although my next rifle is going to be a lightweight carbine. Also, the Dissipator DOES have a carbine gas system.
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Posted: 11/17/2003 2:15:10 AM EDT
[#23]
A standard Bushmaster Dissipator is made from the same HBAR barrel that a normal 16" HBAR is made from. The only difference is that the standard front sight/gas block is shaved (the sight triangle is removed) and a second FSB is installed at the end of the barrel in normal "rifle" position, and used as sights only. You could really turn any 16" barrel into a Dissipator, except that you'd have to have a front sight block custom-bored to the diameter that's normal for the front sight position. On a factory Dissipator, this portion of the barrel is left slightly fatter to allow a standard-sized FSB to be used.
[img]www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/Images/abbl-16da.jpg[/img] I'm not a big fan of the extra weight the second sight block adds, but BM fixed the weight problem by making the "M4 Dissipator": [img]www.bushmaster.com/shopping/barrel-assemblies/Images/abbl-16dm4a.jpg[/img] This setup removes more than a half-pound of excess weight, making it a much better choice IMO. -Troy |
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Posted: 11/18/2003 7:45:14 AM EDT
[#24]
I had kurt do a custom dissy barrel for me also. Function is 100%. accuracy seems as good as my 20 inch tubes. I think that is due to the full sight radius being retained. I sent kurt the 20 barrel with a-2 cage. He cut and reapplied the a-2. I've had several barrels done by kurt, in custom twists. His work is absolutely first rate!
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Posted: 11/18/2003 8:52:36 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: I had kurt do a custom dissy barrel for me also. Function is 100%. accuracy seems as good as my 20 inch tubes. I think that is due to the full sight radius being retained. I sent kurt the 20 barrel with a-2 cage. He cut and reapplied the a-2. I've had several barrels done by kurt, in custom twists. His work is absolutely first rate! Is the A2 cage butted right up against the front sight? Can you post a pic? |
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Posted: 11/18/2003 9:04:03 AM EDT
[#26]
Three of my ARs are in a "Dissipator" configuration - personally, I really like this set-up. One is a straight factory BM post-ban Dissipator; one was built using a pre-ban BM Dissipator upper that I sent to KKF for neutering/braking/tweaking (the lightest of the three and my personal favorite); and one was a DPMS special order - same set-up but they don't call it a "Dissipator" for obvious reasons...
I've enjoyed good service & accuracy out of all three. edited to add: FWIW, I prefer A1-length stocks on this configuration with open sights - I have CavArms sets on the two BMs. I do have an urban camo A2 set on the DPMS, but it has a handle-mounted red-dot scope. But this is a personal thing, not a one-size-fits-all suggestion... |
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Posted: 11/18/2003 12:58:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Three of my ARs are in a "Dissipator" configuration - personally, I really like this set-up. One is a straight factory BM post-ban Dissipator; one was built using a pre-ban BM Dissipator upper that I sent to KKF for neutering/braking/tweaking (the lightest of the three and my personal favorite); and one was a DPMS special order - same set-up but they don't call it a "Dissipator" for obvious reasons... I've enjoyed good service & accuracy out of all three. edited to add: FWIW, I prefer A1-length stocks on this configuration with open sights - I have CavArms sets on the two BMs. I do have an urban camo A2 set on the DPMS, but it has a handle-mounted scope. But this is a personal thing, not a one-size-fits-all suggestion... |
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Posted: 11/19/2003 8:32:11 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Very cool 3-some! Thanks - [s]if I ever manage to access the photo server again, I'll post some pictures. Is everybody else having trouble with the server?[/s] It's working again! [snoopy] I'll try to post some pics on Monday. |
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Posted: 11/19/2003 8:38:33 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Quoted: Very cool 3-some! Thanks - if I ever manage to access the photo server again, I'll post some pictures. Is everybody else having trouble with the server? Same here, alot of pics/avitars have been missing on my system. I'm sure they will get it up and running; Got to be a BIG system |
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Posted: 11/19/2003 8:57:06 AM EDT
[#30]
I have the DPMS Dissipator type. Extremely accurate, and I loaned it to a coworker for Patrol Rifle training. I think it had one malfunction the entire time over the course of 500 rounds or so, and it very likely was magazine related. It's extremely accurate and muzzle heavy. It's got the long gasblock, and reliability with it has been established so far for me. I took off the handguards to clean it after the rain and sleet we went through with the course, and it's a bloody 1-inch piece of pipe with a 22 hole coming out of it. Explains the fact of it being muzzle heavy. Damn.
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Posted: 11/19/2003 9:05:18 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: I have the DPMS Dissipator type. Extremely accurate, and I loaned it to a coworker for Patrol Rifle training. I think it had one malfunction the entire time over the course of 500 rounds or so, and it very likely was magazine related. It's extremely accurate and muzzle heavy. It's got the long gasblock, and reliability with it has been established so far for me. I took off the handguards to clean it after the rain and sleet we went through with the course, and it's a bloody 1-inch piece of pipe with a 22 hole coming out of it. Explains the fact of it being muzzle heavy. Damn. Send it to Kurts Kustom and have him turn and flute the barrel for weight reduction, it will handle much better. [url=http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/i/section_10960/RetroKGWFluted.jpg]SEE PIC[/url] |
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Posted: 11/20/2003 12:40:27 AM EDT
[#32]
I've thought about getting one because if you fit it with the old-style triangular handguards, a three-prong flash hider, and mount an A1 buttstock, you have a replica of an early Colt M16 carbine prototype from the 1960s (see "The Black Rifle" p.171). These were made without bayonet lugs, so you could permanently attach the 3PFH to a post-ban Dissipator and it would be a historically correct configuration.
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Posted: 11/20/2003 4:47:32 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: I've thought about getting one because if you fit it with the old-style triangular handguards, a three-prong flash hider, and mount an A1 buttstock, you have a replica of an early Colt M16 carbine prototype from the 1960s (see "The Black Rifle" p.171). These were made without bayonet lugs, so you could permanently attach the 3PFH to a post-ban Dissipator and it would be a historically correct configuration. Like this...[url=]http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/i/section_10960/RetroKGW.jpg[/url] |
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Posted: 11/20/2003 4:51:24 AM EDT
[#34]
KGW (kurt's) dissy style:
[img]http://decisivedesign.biz/kirkphotos/KGW.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 11/20/2003 5:00:16 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: KGW (kurt's) dissy style: [url]http://decisivedesign.biz/kirkphotos/KGW.jpg[/url] Looks great! Is that a 20" Hbar cut down? Also is it a full length gas system? How does it shoot? Any change in feel form car gas system? |
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Posted: 11/21/2003 12:35:58 PM EDT
[#36]
I think that it's very important to have the gas block at the carbine location, and not the full length location, for reliable function w/16" tubes.
Remember that you need to apply gas pressure to the bolt carrier for a certain amount of time to give it the proper rearward momentum for reliable function (remember "impulse-momentum" from basic physics). This time begins when the bullet passes the gas port and ends when it leaves the muzzle. Some people might have seemingly reliable 16-inchers with full-length gas systems but they'll undoubtedly be more susceptible to difficulties with weak ammo, odd bullet weights or powders, weak mag springs, dirt or sand, et cetera. As for the fluted barrels, some time ago I calculated moments-of-inertia & concluded you exchange a slight reduction in weight for a significant reduction in stiffness & heat sink capacity. Not worth the cost to me. |
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Posted: 11/21/2003 1:47:33 PM EDT
[#37]
p-dog, you have it right on both accounts. especially the fluted barrel. a fluted barrel would be "stiffer" if the weight of both barrels were identical. but fluting only adds stiffness to a barrel weakened by the reduction in mass. A couple of studies have been done on the subject (looks like I'll have to hit google again). As for the full length vs carbine length gas tubes in dissy format, the full gas tube length dissy is altered at the gas port to fix a problem that occurs during this modification. The carbine length gas tube dissy functions as it is intended. I know there are a couple of guys that can give a more expanded explanation.
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Posted: 11/22/2003 5:01:01 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: I think that it's very important to have the gas block at the carbine location, and not the full length location, for reliable function w/16" tubes" . I'm looking at a 20" 1/7 Colt mod. Just remove about 4" of bbl. Would this not function as reliable, due to it's full length gas system? |
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Posted: 11/22/2003 6:54:16 AM EDT
[#39]
you'd have to open the gas port because the length PAST the front block is critical to reliability.
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Posted: 11/22/2003 7:14:22 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: you'd have to open the gas port because the length PAST the front block is critical to reliability. Do you mean, the length past the gas port is critical? If the mod takes place after the gas system how could that effect performance? Seems that just removing 4" of bbl would not change operation's any more than add or remove comp and or use of 55 vs 62 (m193 vs m855). Sorry I"m just not getting it, but I have very little brain power it seems today. ha ha[:\] |
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Posted: 11/22/2003 7:49:56 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Remember that you need to apply gas pressure to the bolt carrier for a certain amount of time to give it the proper rearward momentum for reliable function (remember "impulse-momentum" from basic physics). This time begins when the bullet passes the gas port and ends when it leaves the muzzle. Some people might have seemingly reliable 16-inchers with full-length gas systems but they'll undoubtedly be more susceptible to difficulties with weak ammo, odd bullet weights or powders, weak mag springs, dirt or sand, et cetera. . Think you may have already answered my "bonehead" question---[noclue] |
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Posted: 11/22/2003 2:37:00 PM EDT
[#42]
You seem to be getting it just fine Goltop-
To clarify, the more barrel you have in front of the gas port, the greater the amount of time gas pressure is exerted on the bolt carrier. You've undoubtedly heard of all the problems with 10.5" to 11" barrel "shorties". Note that the M4 has a 14.5" barrel, essentially the same distance from port to muzzle the full size rifle has. This is proving to be the best functioning barrel length for the "shorty" gas system. Opening the gas port on a 16-incher with full-length gas system will give you a greater quantity of gas to the carrier but it will still be of a too-short duration for completely reliable function, IMHO. |
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Posted: 11/22/2003 5:32:50 PM EDT
[#43]
goldtopdude-
mine is a 20" cut to 16.5" with the gas port enlarged. it was also turned down from HBAR to gov't. i haven't shot it yet. hopefully soon. AFAIK no one has reported a problem with cycling after kurt's modifications. |
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Posted: 11/25/2003 8:28:17 AM EDT
[#44]
Better late than never... I finally remembered to take some pictures last night - glad the server is still up and running...
Here is the DPMS post-ban "Dissy-clone": [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=20068[/img] [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=20069[/img] And here is one of the Bushmasters: [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=20070[/img] [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=20071[/img] This is the one that I had KKF "neuter," lighten, & brake. Here is some closer detail of his finished work (with which I was VERY happy): [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=20072[/img] When I originally posted above, I had forgotten that I parked my flare launcher on this one. I really need to take it off and sell it - I've never even used the thing. I couldn't find the other Bushmaster last night - it's in the back of one of the safes and I didn't want to pull everything out to find it. Anyway, I bought that upper here on EE with the KKF work already done - it looks as good as the one I had done personally. |
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Posted: 11/25/2003 10:47:24 AM EDT
[#45]
Hardshell, I hafta ask...where did you get that camo furniture? Did you get it painted or was it bought that way. VERY sweet dissy!
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Posted: 11/25/2003 11:10:15 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Hardshell, I hafta ask...where did you get that camo furniture? Did you get it painted or was it bought that way. VERY sweet dissy! I bought that furniture from someone here on the Equipment Exchange - it was already like that & I don't have a clue as to the back-story. It was a really nice job, though. It looks better in person than in photos - I was thrilled when it arrived at the house and I saw it in person for the first time. That was my first non-black "black rifle" - now I'm a Cav-Arms colored furniture junkie... [:D] |
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Posted: 11/25/2003 8:25:17 PM EDT
[#47]
Thanks for the pics! Just love that Dissipator style! Long sight pic and they just look tough.
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