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Posted: 9/26/2004 3:09:50 PM EDT
I've found a box while cleaning, the moly coating is pretty much off the bullets. But the color on the bullet's still there. Now I was wondering if I can use this box to break in a new upper. Or is it a bad move....
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:13:18 PM EDT
I wouldn't use moly for breakin..... unless it was a chrome lined barrel.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:15:06 PM EDT
Once you go moly you can't go back.

All moly or no moly.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 3:25:06 PM EDT
thanks guys, this box will be in storage forever then...or trade it at the range
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 5:45:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
Once you go moly you can't go back.

All moly or no moly.

That's complete nonsense. Moly can be taken out of a bore in minuets with any ammonia-based bore cleaner. (Shooters choice etc.) I've been moly-coating my own bullets and shooting exclusively moly-coated bullets for about 12 years. It's much more difficult to start using moly than it is to stop using it. Using moly-coated bullets to break-in a gun is not a good idea. It won't hurt anything, it will just take you longer. The break-in of a barrel is simply wearing the tool marks out of a barrel by a process of shooting and cleaning. Adding a lubricant (moly) will only make the process take longer.

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 5:51:01 AM EDT
I seriously have my doubts that you can completely remove moly from the bore in a few minutes.

There is a big anti moly movement.


Moly Warning

11 March 2004
By Ron Gaitten

Moly destroys your barrel by attracting and trapping water in the barrel causing severe pitting.
Even if you live in a dry climate, temperature changes experienced during the hunting season (gun inside warm house - gun outside in the cold) causes the metal to sweat.
My barrel was destroyed by pitting after only 154 rounds 40 of which were moly coated (fail safe). I had cleaned every 10-20 rounds with Hoppes9 and Shooters Choice, both good cleaners, with the patch and brush method. It didn't get it out.
Moly is EXTREMELY hard to get out. Plug the barrel and soak with Kroil overnight. Then scrub with a mix of JB-Bore Compound and Kroil for 5-20 short stroke technique passes. USE A BORE GUIDE, quality rod and jag, and be careful around the crown (don't bang the heck out of it). Finish with a solvent of choice and good oil. Hoppes9 or Shooters Choice mops out the JB well. If you choose, you can use something a little stronger like Montana Extreme for a final solvent pass. Extreme copper solvents like Sweets 7.62 although are great at removing copper are probably not necessary with this cleaning process as the copper should have been mechanically removed by the JB/Kroil mix.
A moly conditioned barrel will not shoot Std. copper bullets accurately (relative term).
Stainless barrels are effeted too.
This does not apply to "Lubalox" (found on Win. ballistic tip) or the Barnes coatings. However, I still advise caution.
Over the last several months I have poured many hours of extensive research into this issue. I have spoken with nearly every manufacturer in the industry, and read every publication I could find. Many of the high end manufacturers made comments such as these, "I would never run moly coated bullets through my guns," "Not in a million years would I use moly coated bullets," "moly conditioned barrels shoot std copper bullets very poorly," " moly is nearly impossible to remove." The manufacturers that didn't make a derogatory comment made one something like this, "we have no comment." Winchester refused to comment on several e-mails I sent addressing this issue, but replied to every other product question I submitted (Hmm). The most telling quote was "moly is something we all got caught up in way too fast, before any real world data could be collected, and we are all paying the price for it now." Moly does have some good properties, however I do not believe they justify the risk.



Getting out of Moly Bullets for Now
05 February 2000

By Joe Lunenschloss


I have recently had misgivings about shooting moly bullets, and it seems there is growing evidence that these coatings should be avoided. I first had some indication that moly may contribute to bore corrosion in normal chrome-molybednum rifle barrels, when I saw "Varmint Al's" little unscientific test on his web page. He put some moly on a barrel surface, and left it for 24 hrs in a humid state. The barrel surface was slightly etched after only 24 hrs.

Now even more troublesome info is surfacing. If you contact Sinclair International to order something ask about their current disposition towards shooting moly or Danzac coated bullets. ( Sinclair is a leading precision shooters' suply store). It is notable that Sinclair sells moly coating products, as well as the Danzac coatings from Kincaid, Inc. At the present time Sinclair is advising people that they are not shooting moly or Danzac anymore in their own rifles, and are waiting for further info on the risks.

In the new shooting book written by Sinclair and Gravatt (who run Sinclair Int'l), there is a section on moly coating methods, etc. They say in their book that they cannot recommend using any bullet coatings at this time, and it is quite possible that moly will prove to be only the first generation of bullet coatings. They also relate some of the problems observed with moly use. The most significant and worrisome is that if moly is not completely cleaned out of a bore it builds up on itself....and....that a form of pitting and erosion has been observed underneath moly in *stainless steel* rifle barrels, that is unlike any pitting they have ever previously observed in this type of barrel.

For those who haven't shot moly bullets yet, be aware that it is nearly impossible to completely remove it from your barrel. You can get most of it with strong solvents, but bore paste (USP, JB's) will also be required to get nearly all of it out. It is alot of work. If you have already used moly, it is very important that it be removed as best you can after shooting. Do not put up guns which have been shot with moly, before you have given them a very thorough cleaning.

The guys I have talked to at Sinclair are now shooting plain old uncoated bullets, and being very careful to clean all the copper fouling out.

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 6:17:08 AM EDT
Ya, I know, I've heard all the "OH MY GOD" and "LET ME WARN YOU ABOUT MOLY" Like I said, I have been shooting moly bullets for over 12 years. I have AR barrels that have never had a brush in them. I have got an AR barrel that I have shot so much that I have worn out 2 sets of gas rings and an extractor and it still shoots "one hole groups". I don't care whether you want to use moly or not, I'm just trying to lend you some of my experience. I have removed moly from barrels just as I described. There is nothing magic or sinister about moly, but one thing I have found over the years: whenever I have encountered someone that is having problems with moly, they are doing something wrong. Moly works, my family and I have hundreds of thousands of rounds down the barrel with moly and we have had NO ill effects from it. I have friends that I shoot with that have switched to moly and are just as "sold" on it. I have barrels that I know have lasted longer than what they would have without the use of moly. Think of it, NEVER using a brush to clean your barrel. Before I used moly-coated bullets I would take 3 uppers along on a prairie dog hunt. I would hunt all morning with the first upper, switch and hunt all afternoon with the second, and hunt until dark with the third. Then the whole crew would take turns cleaning uppers. It would take as much as 45 minuets per upper to get the copper out. Now I shoot all day long with one upper, it still shoots "bug holes" and at night I clean it with a couple of patches in as many minuets. I have been using moly for so long that if it destroyed all of my barrels and I had to start over, I would still use it. It improves accuracy on thin-skined bullets, it makes cleaning a breeze, it allows you to shoot more with less barrel heat. The only "down side" is the pain in the butt to coat the bullets.

You will get cancer if you eat food from a microwave oven, you will get Alzheimer's if you eat from an aluminum kettle, you can't get pregnant if you do it standing up, if you scare a woman when she's pregnant, the child will stutter, if you break a mirror you will have seven years bad luck.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 7:38:15 AM EDT
Where does the wear take place on a centerfire rifle barrel? The throat. There is little wear that takes place on the lands and grooves. Moly doesn't prevent throat erosion.

As for fouling it isn't copper that fouls my chrome lined AR and hand lapped match barrels. It's powder fouling. Using the newest generation of powders like Ramshot has significantly decreased powder fouling.

To each his own. I just think moly is unnecessary and in some cases could be harmful.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 8:10:55 AM EDT
No, it won't stop throat erosion. The rest of the "wear" comes from friction and CLEANING wit a brush. The constant scrubbing with the brush and contact with the cleaning rod. And certainly it isn't "necessary". I shot for 30 years without it and millions of people have never tried it but it has enhanced my shooting and allows me to spend more time "shooting" and less time cleaning.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 2:39:49 PM EDT
I've heard the horror stories about moly as well. I have been using moly coated bullets about as long as they have been around. I got in contact with NECO back when they first came out with moly and have been using ever since. I do all of my accuracy testing with moly-coated Black Hills, 52 grain HPBT Match. I think if you had a chrome-moly barrel and used moly,. it may be a good idea to run a patch with Kroil on it through the bore before storing it, but then it would be a good idea to do that anyway, wouldn't it.

I don't know where people come up with the idea that moly is difficult to remove from the bore. To the contrary, I've found that most bore cleaners take it out quite quickly. When moly first "hit the scene" I experimented with accuracy and used a 40X Remington chambered in .243 Winchester as the platform. I would shoot moly coated bullets for a few days, then strip the moly and shoot the un-coated loads that I normally shot. That barrel would come out slick and clean every time.

I don't try and "push" moly on anyone. I figure it's their loss, not mine.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 4:06:05 PM EDT
I cant think of a better time to shoot this stuff. Get some rounds down range, sight in [basic] and use that box for its best purpose. You are going to clean, adjust, tighten, whatever anyway before finally settling in. Some bores have far worse in them when new.
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