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Posted: 3/13/2013 7:40:44 PM EDT
[#1]
Also what they cost?
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Posted: 3/13/2013 7:53:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Last I heard, $2K, which I think is too much for what it is.
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Posted: 3/13/2013 7:54:40 PM EDT
[#3]
My other option is KAC sr-15 for 2,100. Do you think that's a better choice than BCM?
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Posted: 3/13/2013 7:57:17 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
My other option is KAC sr-15 for 2,100. Do you think that's a better choice than BCM? As far as price points go, yes. |
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Posted: 3/13/2013 8:05:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Thanks for the advise
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Posted: 3/13/2013 8:25:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
My other option is KAC sr-15 for 2,100. Do you think that's a better choice than BCM? If you purchased everything the Jack comes with (including getting it refinished), you would spend slightly more than what it costs. I personally like the KAC better, but to say that the Jack is overpriced is incorrect (wrong). |
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Posted: 3/13/2013 11:34:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you purchased everything the Jack comes with (including getting it refinished), you would spend slightly more than what it costs. I personally like the KAC better, but to say that the Jack is overpriced is incorrect (wrong).My other option is KAC sr-15 for 2,100. Do you think that's a better choice than BCM? I agree. I assembled my own near-clone of the Jack to have one faster and it did not save me anything. At it's price point, it is well worth it. As for the KAC, it is not without detractors, in both price and performance. I, personally, have no opinion on the KAC that is based on ownership or use. |
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Posted: 3/14/2013 5:43:53 AM EDT
[#8]
First of all, the Jack Carbine's were sold out within a few days once BCM started accepting orders, so good luck finding one.
Quoted:
My other option is KAC sr-15 for 2,100. Do you think that's a better choice than BCM? Second of all, KAC vs BCM is kind of like Camaro vs Mustang or Porsche vs Ferrari: -There are lots of fans on both sides of the debate -One may have a slightly better/longer recorded history of success, but it's like comparing Kobe's Lakers to Jordan/s Bulls. -Either will probably run laps around a Bushmaster/Oly/ Ford Fiesta -A good driver will have a favorite, but would happily use either and make you look like a noob. BCM rifles are great and hard to get in normal times, good luck getting one anytime this year. KAC SR-15 Carbine wait times are running ~90 days right now I think. You will not be disappointed with a KAC. Once you get your hands on a KAC, you'll want another one (no homo). 
[Full Disclosure: I have a BCM Mid on a Spikes lower and a KAC LPR. The LPR is an SR15 Mod 1 with a Kreiger barrel.] |
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Posted: 3/14/2013 5:54:10 AM EDT
[#9]
I'll agree that both rifles are really excellent values for the money. The question is, do you know enough about AR's and use them enough to be able to tell the difference between these and a standard M4? Also, bear in mind that the KAC uses some proprietary parts (bolt assembly, barrel extension, gas system.)
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Posted: 3/14/2013 6:24:46 AM EDT
[#10]
Get the KAC. It's not a matter of Lamborghini vs Ferrari, it's more like a mustang from the 70s vs a mustang from today. You might like one look over the other but the one today will be the better performer.
BCM makes great guns and I really like the color of the jack, that said KAC is a better gun and modernly engineered |
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Posted: 3/14/2013 6:30:52 AM EDT
[#11]
I really like the Jack Carbine. Buying an item like that though comes down to this question: "Do I want every single thing it comes with?"
If the answer is "yes," then it's a good value. Especially with the training certificate. If you're intending on removing a bunch of the stuff or not using it, it's not worth it. Personally, I'd be perfectly happy with taking that gun and shooting it as is. Maybe add an optic. The only place I know of that you can buy them is here: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Order-HSP-The-Jack-Carbine-s/168.htm But it looks like they are no longer taking orders. Sorry.  |
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Posted: 3/14/2013 7:38:55 AM EDT
[#12]
You're paying too much for a gun that is going to come with an ALG trigger. Not that ALG triggers are bad.. but come on.. throw in a Geissele trigger at that price point. Don't both with the Jack carbine.. it's got too much name collab on it and not enough in terms of material for all that price.
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Posted: 3/14/2013 7:41:38 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: You're paying too much for a gun that is going to come with an ALG trigger. Not that ALG triggers are bad.. but come on.. throw in a Geissele trigger at that price point. Don't both with the Jack carbine.. it's got too much name collab on it and not enough in terms of material for all that price. You're flat out wrong. Add up the parts put into that gun and it's actually several hundred dollars below what you would pay to build it yourself. Not to mention it comes with a $200 training certificate. Edit: Found my old post in the Jack Carbine new item thread.... Originally posted by Krylancelo @ http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_124/593580_Haley_Strategic_BCM_JACK_CARBINE.html&page=5: BCM Mid-length Carbine (No handguards, no stock): $983 [From that site we can't link to] B5 SOPMOD Stock: $100 BCM Comp: $95 BCM GF PG: $30 BCM GF CH: $45 Geiselle Super Modular Rail: $345 (cheapest I could find) ACT Trigger: $65 Inforce WML-HSP: $110 HSP Thorntail Mount: $70 QD Mount End Plate: $25 QD Sling Swivel D Ring: $15 Set of Troy Front and Rear Flip up sights: $200 Cerakote Job: $100 (total guess, never had one done) $200 worth of training from HSP Total: $2,183 ($2,383 if you include the training money) BCM's price for the Jack Carbine: $1,995. I overestimated the price on the B5 stock by about $40 but still, the point stands. |
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Posted: 3/14/2013 8:01:42 AM EDT
[#14]
Thanks for all the help, I can get a BCM RCCEE 14 locally right now for 1,999. The KAC SR-15 Mod1 I can for 2,100 But I would have to wait a month or two which I don't mind doing if im getting more for money with the KAC. Im just afraid if I get the BCM I will have to purchase more such iron sights, butt stock ect.. where in the knights a lot of that already comes on the gun.
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Posted: 3/14/2013 10:03:58 AM EDT
[#15]
Id go with KAC myself. KAC has implemented functional enhancements (proprietary) that work. The BCM or Colt or fill in the blank is just milspec with some add on's. True it is cheaper if you want those add on's. I just cant justify BCM add on's vs working improvements of the KAC. Plus being from Texas you should have considered another option too, Larue.
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Posted: 3/14/2013 10:16:22 AM EDT
[#16]
Definitely considered LaRue the wait time was a little to long for my liking but if one popped up I would jump all over it, I do like to keep my money local.
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Posted: 3/14/2013 10:24:09 AM EDT
[#17]
My choice would also be KAC.
That said, the BCM looks like a nice rifle. Saw one on gun broker this morning. |
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Posted: 3/14/2013 1:02:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You're paying too much for a gun that is going to come with an ALG trigger. Not that ALG triggers are bad.. but come on.. throw in a Geissele trigger at that price point. Don't both with the Jack carbine.. it's got too much name collab on it and not enough in terms of material for all that price. You're flat out wrong. Add up the parts put into that gun and it's actually several hundred dollars below what you would pay to build it yourself. Not to mention it comes with a $200 training certificate. Edit: Found my old post in the Jack Carbine new item thread.... Originally posted by Krylancelo @ http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_124/593580_Haley_Strategic_BCM_JACK_CARBINE.html&page=5: BCM Mid-length Carbine (No handguards, no stock): $983 [From that site we can't link to] B5 SOPMOD Stock: $100 BCM Comp: $95 BCM GF PG: $30 BCM GF CH: $45 Geiselle Super Modular Rail: $345 (cheapest I could find) ACT Trigger: $65 Inforce WML-HSP: $110 HSP Thorntail Mount: $70 QD Mount End Plate: $25 QD Sling Swivel D Ring: $15 Set of Troy Front and Rear Flip up sights: $200 Cerakote Job: $100 (total guess, never had one done) $200 worth of training from HSP Total: $2,183 ($2,383 if you include the training money) BCM's price for the Jack Carbine: $1,995. I overestimated the price on the B5 stock by about $40 but still, the point stands. You're going to get MORE gun from other MFG's with less bolt on hardware then. If you need all of the bolt on extras like the light and the light mount and the cerakote job and the overpriced rail then go for it.. but I'd rather have my gun money more IN the gun to start with.. and then cherry pick accessories for the outside. Imo ditch the cerakote job and put that extra money in the trigger where it's more useful, etc etc. |
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Posted: 3/14/2013 1:13:32 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Thanks for all the help, I can get a BCM RCCEE 14 locally right now for 1,999. The KAC SR-15 Mod1 I can for 2,100 But I would have to wait a month or two which I don't mind doing if im getting more for money with the KAC. Im just afraid if I get the BCM I will have to purchase more such iron sights, butt stock ect.. where in the knights a lot of that already comes on the gun. At those prices, KAC hands down. I would not pay that much for a standard BCM. |
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Posted: 3/14/2013 2:43:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: Thanks for all the help, I can get a BCM RCCEE 14 locally right now for 1,999. The KAC SR-15 Mod1 I can for 2,100 But I would have to wait a month or two which I don't mind doing if im getting more for money with the KAC. Im just afraid if I get the BCM I will have to purchase more such iron sights, butt stock ect.. where in the knights a lot of that already comes on the gun. At those prices, KAC hands down. I would not pay that much for a standard BCM. + 1 at those prices I'd go with the mod 1 KAC cause that URX 3.1 rail is the Sh++T.  |
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Posted: 3/14/2013 3:03:02 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Id go with KAC myself. KAC has implemented functional enhancements (proprietary) that work. The BCM or Colt or fill in the blank is just milspec with some add on's. True it is cheaper if you want those add on's. I just cant justify BCM add on's vs working improvements of the KAC. Plus being from Texas you should have considered another option too, Larue. Exactly what are those? Seriously, the lower, with the QD's and the bolt are really the only differences, now with that said, what happens when your ectractor takes a dump on the KAC? Propriotary now is going to bite you in the ass. On the rail, theURX III, is in my opinion a better rail. Yes I own both a URX III, SR15, and one of the newer ones. I have looked at the Jack, and in all honesty it is a nice setup, but why not just build a custom to YOUR liking? |
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Posted: 3/14/2013 3:35:45 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Id go with KAC myself. KAC has implemented functional enhancements (proprietary) that work. The BCM or Colt or fill in the blank is just milspec with some add on's. True it is cheaper if you want those add on's. I just cant justify BCM add on's vs working improvements of the KAC. Plus being from Texas you should have considered another option too, Larue. Exactly what are those? Seriously, the lower, with the QD's and the bolt are really the only differences, now with that said, what happens when your ectractor takes a dump on the KAC? Propriotary now is going to bite you in the ass. On the rail, theURX III, is in my opinion a better rail. Yes I own both a URX III, SR15, and one of the newer ones. I have looked at the Jack, and in all honesty it is a nice setup, but why not just build a custom to YOUR liking? There's also the very convenient lefty mag release, the other stuff is non proprietary but it differs from the jack. Ambi bolt release, 2 stage KAC trigger, scalloped selector. On the extractor why not buy the field repair kit, if you feel the need for two or cant wait for KAC? Your pretty much going to have to do this anyway since I cant think of any AR that comes with an extra extractor when you buy their rifle. If its SHTF your not going to be ordering parts or waiting for service anyway. |
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Posted: 3/14/2013 4:00:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Saw one on GB for $3500 the other day, and that was the legit bid, not some crazy I want to get price. So I'd say, depending on who you're bidding against, it could be a lot. More than its worth for sure. Have you called BC and asked if you can order one or get on a waiting list?
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Posted: 3/14/2013 4:53:36 PM EDT
[#24]
Build one to your own specs
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Posted: 3/15/2013 9:13:32 AM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 3/15/2013 9:27:17 AM EDT
[#26]
I guess if you want a completed rifle as far as one you can buy, immediately go to the range, sight in and put by your bed then get the Jack. I don't know what comes with the KAC if anything other than bells and whistles. The training certificate is great but ammo is needed for that and if you an find or have ammo then great.
This trigger debate is petty. The rifle was engineered for a specific purpose and a certain way. If people don't like it then don't get it and stop complaining about it. Learn how to shoot then it won't be a 'problem'. |
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Posted: 3/15/2013 10:28:43 AM EDT
[#27]
nice rifle, but cut back on the laser engraving. makes the it look cheep.
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Posted: 3/16/2013 7:10:37 AM EDT
[#28]
What color is the Cerokote that would be closest to match the "Jack"?
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