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Posted: 10/31/2009 11:27:46 AM EST
Can anyone give me actual numbers on the accuracy of BCM's middy barrels. Whats the difference between there BHF, CL, and SS barrels in terms of accuracy?
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 11:37:46 AM EST
There accuracy with good ammo is going to be better then what you can shoot....consistently.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 12:42:59 PM EST
How much will non-FF handguards diminish accuracy?
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 1:11:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By Harv24:
There accuracy with good ammo is going to be better then what you can shoot....consistently.


Why do so many people make comments like that? It doesn't answer the O.P.'s question, and it doesn't matter if the rifle has less error than the shooter. The inherent inaccuracy of the rifle is added on to the shooter's inherent inaccuracy, not replaced by it. So if the rifle can hold 2MOA, and the shooter is only capable of 2MOA, then he will average 4MOA groups. If that rifle can hold 1MOA instead of 2, then those groups should improve to 3MOA, so having a better rifle still makes him a better shooter.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 1:53:51 PM EST
DevilDog1970
Why do so many people make comments like that? It doesn't answer the O.P.'s question, and it doesn't matter if the rifle has less error than the shooter. The inherent inaccuracy of the rifle is added on to the shooter's inherent inaccuracy, not replaced by it. So if the rifle can hold 2MOA, and the shooter is only capable of 2MOA, then he will average 4MOA groups. If that rifle can hold 1MOA instead of 2, then those groups should improve to 3MOA, so having a better rifle still makes him a better shooter


Why?, because this question gets asked every week. And the hard truth is with modern manufacturing and materials, there are very few guns that can be out shot by the average shooter. Yet folks always sweat over it. And they more often then not shoot crap ammo thru there guns anyhow. They also sweat the FF vs Non FF which again is a non starter as most folks skill level does not gain any extra accuracy from a FF. Yet everybody thinks there a 1000 yd tack drivin machine.

The few folks who CAN outshoot there guns don't need to ask this question as there skill set and experience already answered it for them.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 2:14:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By Harv24:
Originally Posted By DevilDog1970:
Why do so many people make comments like that? It doesn't answer the O.P.'s question, and it doesn't matter if the rifle has less error than the shooter. The inherent inaccuracy of the rifle is added on to the shooter's inherent inaccuracy, not replaced by it. So if the rifle can hold 2MOA, and the shooter is only capable of 2MOA, then he will average 4MOA groups. If that rifle can hold 1MOA instead of 2, then those groups should improve to 3MOA, so having a better rifle still makes him a better shooter

Why?, because this question gets asked every week. And the hard truth is with modern manufacturing and materials, there are very few guns that can be out shot by the average shooter. Yet folks always sweat over it. And they more often then not shoot crap ammo thru there guns anyhow. They also sweat the FF vs Non FF which again is a non starter as most folks skill level does not gain any extra accuracy from a FF. Yet everybody thinks there a 1000 yd tack drivin machine.

The few folks who CAN outshoot there guns don't need to ask this question as there skill set and experience already answered it for them.

This makes my brain hurt.

A more accurate rifle WILL (guaranteed non-negotiable no refunds FACT) improve your groupings.

It doesn't matter how shitty or awesome a marksman you are, a more accurate barrel will bring your holes in that much closer to where you were aiming.

This will be the case until there are perfectly accurate barrels and groupings depend 100% on your skill.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 2:34:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By rlester:
Can anyone give me actual numbers on the accuracy of BCM's middy barrels. Whats the difference between there BHF, CL, and SS barrels in terms of accuracy?


Back to the question I would like to know the numbers as well. Do to looking at geting another upper and BCM is at the top of my search.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 2:55:57 PM EST
dontgivehoot

A more accurate rifle WILL (guaranteed non-negotiable no refunds FACT) improve your groupings.


There is the No shit statement of the week............

BCM rifles are build to the same standard as a rack grade Colt of FN which puts them at about 4MOA. There carbines not sniper rifles. Will it do better, absolutely. but that is more on ammo and shooter, which was my point.. What the intended purpose of the rifle/carbine will drive accuracy requirements as well.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 3:10:51 PM EST
Originally Posted By Harv24:
dontgivehoot

A more accurate rifle WILL (guaranteed non-negotiable no refunds FACT) improve your groupings.


There is the No shit statement of the week............

BCM rifles are build to the same standard as a rack grade Colt of FN which puts them at about 4MOA. There carbines not sniper rifles. Will it do better, absolutely. but that is more on ammo and shooter, which was my point.. What the intended purpose of the rifle/carbine will drive accuracy requirements as well.


I do not agree with this at all. I believe the AR 15 is a inherently accurate rifle system, and 4 moa would be the worst of them with the worst ammo. I just read in last months gun magazine (that one they give away free at many shops) a test on a Stag 2t, with the samson rail a CARBINE, and it shot just over .5 moa. I believe a good rifle (like BCM) and a ff tube or rail all help imo.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 3:30:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2009 8:51:06 PM EST by Harv24]
phimfanmh

I do not agree with this at all. I believe the AR 15 is a inherently accurate rifle system, and 4 moa would be the worst of them with the worst ammo. I just read in last months gun magazine (that one they give away free at many shops) a test on a Stag 2t, with the samson rail a CARBINE, and it shot just over .5 moa. I believe a good rifle (like BCM) and a ff tube or rail all help imo.


Yes, that is true, but understand that mass produced rack grade M16's/M4 have to have a acceptance criteria to allow for tolerances in manufacturing and also the issues M885 ball rd which also has tolerances. Most AR's are very acurate off the rack, more so then most shooters. but you need to do you part behind the trigger. The gun won't do it by itself. and my point is few shooters have that skill. Go shoot a rack grade rifle at 100 yds with Irons using standard issue ball ammo.
Link Posted: 10/31/2009 8:16:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By Devildog1970:
Originally Posted By Harv24:
There accuracy with good ammo is going to be better then what you can shoot....consistently.


Why do so many people make comments like that? It doesn't answer the O.P.'s question, and it doesn't matter if the rifle has less error than the shooter. The inherent inaccuracy of the rifle is added on to the shooter's inherent inaccuracy, not replaced by it. So if the rifle can hold 2MOA, and the shooter is only capable of 2MOA, then he will average 4MOA groups. If that rifle can hold 1MOA instead of 2, then those groups should improve to 3MOA, so having a better rifle still makes him a better shooter.


Agreed. This is not the GD.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 5:26:16 PM EST
Here's an email response from BCM regarding the M4 upper assy -

The accuracy in that upper group is going to be the same as any NATO chamber
Milspec M16 or M4.
The focus on that product is to build a upper group that can be run very
hard.

If you want a upper group where it is built to a very high standard, but
accuracy is a main feature then look at this group.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-
p/bcm-urg-mid16%20ss410%20ddl12.htm
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