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Posted: 4/12/2006 9:55:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/15/2006 10:06:04 PM EST by GumbyDammit]
Okay, I finally started my build tonight and after putting the M4 stock on the lower and installing the buffer and spring, I noticed a couple of things.

First the buffer retainer pin is barely captured by the buffer tube. I tried one more turn and it was too much (the upper wouldn't close), so I backed it out a turn again and it is enough to hold it in, but looks like it could turn into a problem with some heavy use.

Second, when I look at the stock it almost looks like it's bent upwards (not exactly in-line with the barrel). Is that normal or have I not tightened it down enough or other issue??

I'll try and get some pics tomorrow that show what I'm talking about, but not sure it will show up well. Just wanted to see if any of the experts here have noticed similar things before.

Thanks!!

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 10:16:41 PM EST
thats normal on the pin--it should be at least half covered by the tube and it should not pop out

the tube should be straight...if it moves or is crooked, re-alighn and try tightening the tube nut

just to be sure, do you have pics?
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 6:56:00 AM EST
The pin is more like 3/16 - 1/4 covered, but I couldn't wiggle it out so maybe it's enough.

I took the buffer tube off a couple of times and put it back on with no difference. It went on real smooth so I'm sure it's not cross threaded or anything, just looked different from how I remember the CAR on my Colt so I thought I might have done something wrong. Maybe it was the fact that I was up till 0200 playing with it .

I'll try and get some descriptive pics tonight...
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 9:01:17 PM EST
Okay, here are a couple of pics of the stock and also the retention pin.

Thoughts?







Link Posted: 4/13/2006 9:13:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By GumbyDammit:
Okay, here are a couple of pics of the stock and also the retention pin.

Thoughts?

i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/GumbyDammit/P4130017.jpg

i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/GumbyDammit/P4130016.jpg

i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/GumbyDammit/P4130011.jpg

i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/GumbyDammit/P4130009.jpg



whoa

yea you are right...that pin is not going to stay in properly

if you go another complete turn on the tube, just how much was it missing to alighn properly...do you think a little sanding on the tube or pin will make it alighn properly?
Link Posted: 4/13/2006 9:48:54 PM EST
Who or where did you buy the stock from?

You're gonna need a file, because that buffer retainer is gonna pop out. File some of the leading edge of the receiver extension to make it cover about 1/3 of the buffer retainer, but not to where it's rubbing on the little nub sticking up.

As far as looking bent, yup, it sure does. But it might be camera angle and/or lighting.

My guess is that it's a low-priced aftermarket stock. Honestly, your best bet and your best buy is find a dealer who stocks and sells CMT/Stag parts. The CMT/Stag stock is mil-spec, at non-mil-spec prices.

YMMV
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 2:22:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lapp_Dance:
Who or where did you buy the stock from?

You're gonna need a file, because that buffer retainer is gonna pop out. File some of the leading edge of the receiver extension to make it cover about 1/3 of the buffer retainer, but not to where it's rubbing on the little nub sticking up.

As far as looking bent, yup, it sure does. But it might be camera angle and/or lighting.

My guess is that it's a low-priced aftermarket stock. Honestly, your best bet and your best buy is find a dealer who stocks and sells CMT/Stag parts. The CMT/Stag stock is mil-spec, at non-mil-spec prices.

YMMV



I've never used the CMT/Stag stock but if its like any of their other parts, I'll pass if that is considered "mil-spec".

I bought a 4-position stock from an EE vendor that had a similar buffer tube. It was not notched like the DPMS or RRA tubes. By notching, I mean that part of the edge was removed in order to allow the upper receiver to close down, but not removing the part of the tube that fits over the buffer pin.

In addition, my DPMS tube had an additional half-moon cut at the edge of the tube to allow it to fit further over the buffer retaining pin. The DPMS may not be "official super secret squirrel mil-spec" but it works better.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 7:52:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2006 8:20:40 AM EST by Lapp_Dance]

Originally Posted By metroplex:

your best bet and your best buy is find a dealer who stocks and sells CMT/Stag parts.


I've never used the CMT/Stag stock but if its like any of their other parts, I'll pass if that is considered "mil-spec".

I bought a 4-position stock from an EE vendor that had a similar buffer tube. It was not notched like the DPMS or RRA tubes. By notching, I mean that part of the edge was removed in order to allow the upper receiver to close down, but not removing the part of the tube that fits over the buffer pin.

In addition, my DPMS tube had an additional half-moon cut at the edge of the tube to allow it to fit further over the buffer retaining pin. The DPMS may not be "official super secret squirrel mil-spec" but it works better.



I was advising him to buy CMT/Stag. I can tell you right now that's not what he has bought and pictured.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 8:01:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2006 8:02:28 AM EST by metroplex]

Originally Posted By Lapp_Dance:

I was advising him to buy CMT/Stag. I can tell you right now that's not what he has bought and pictured.



I understand. The Leapers stock does not have the proper tube. DPMS, RRA, etc... all have the proper buffer tube with the proper "cut". However, 5 minutes with a file will solve his problem.

Also, please fix your quotes. You have me quoted as writing something I did not write
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 2:00:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/14/2006 2:01:12 PM EST by GumbyDammit]
Well, I rotated it one more turn and it definitely won't close, it's about 1/8-1/16 too far. I could probably file it down but with the weird cant on it, I'll look at returning it first. I'm thinking I'll try to find another one to put on it this weekend so I can be sure it's the stock and not a mis-threaded receiver, but I'm thinking the problem is more likely with my $50 stock than my RRA receiver (anyone ever had a receiver not drilled straight??).


metro - the aluminimum CAR I had on my Colt had the cut-out you are talking about. I wondered about that when I got this one.

Anyway, if I send it back does anyone have an experience with the command arms model (with the battery holder) or would everyone just suggest sticking with an M4 (better quality of course)?
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 2:14:39 PM EST
I have one of those cheap Leapers-style CAR stocks and a DPMS M4 stock. IMHO, stick with the M4 stocks made by a reputable vendor and sold by a reputable vendor.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 12:51:14 AM EST
Yeah, I can be a bit of a cheap a$$ sometimes, but I don;t want to be sitting on the sidelines with broken stuff while everyone else is playing with their toys.

The dealer I bought the stock from also sells RRA stocks so maybe I'll see if they'll let me toss in the $25 difference and get one of those instead.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 1:14:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/15/2006 1:18:39 AM EST by AKsRule]
The "Notch" in the Tube is a recent Enhancement , but not necessary.

I don't know if Military issue rifles have them now , but they didn't for many many years.

I have an SP1 , Armalite AR, and a Bushy , + my homebuilt AR pistol ,NONE of which have a notch
in the tube , and they work just fine.

As far as "NON Mil-Spec" tubes go , unless they are grossly out of spec or made in Taiwan , the worst thing that will happen is a rattle from your collapsible stock.

BTW - it's not real hard to put coarse threads on a piece of tubing - so if your tube looks
crooked - you either cross threaded it or the receiver threads are off.
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 3:02:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
The "Notch" in the Tube is a recent Enhancement , but not necessary.

I don't know if Military issue rifles have them now , but they didn't for many many years.

I have an SP1 , Armalite AR, and a Bushy , + my homebuilt AR pistol ,NONE of which have a notch
in the tube , and they work just fine.

As far as "NON Mil-Spec" tubes go , unless they are grossly out of spec or made in Taiwan , the worst thing that will happen is a rattle from your collapsible stock.

BTW - it's not real hard to put coarse threads on a piece of tubing - so if your tube looks
crooked - you either cross threaded it or the receiver threads are off.



Are you talking about the half-moon notch that fits over part of the buffer retainer pin, or are you talking about the material removed from the tube to allow the upper receiver to close?
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 10:12:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/15/2006 10:15:56 PM EST by GumbyDammit]
Okay, I played around with this tonight and have come to the conclusion that it's either the tube or the castle nut. Either way I think this is going back in favor of an RRA. After I took the stock off I was threading the castle nut on the stock and noticed it was going on very unevenly.

Could this be the culprit causing the cant on the tube? Also, if the tube is canting up it will pull it away from the buffer retaining pin as well, right?

Take a look:


Link Posted: 4/16/2006 5:01:20 AM EST

WOW , I have never seen anything like that.

I mean even PLUMBING PIPE FITTINGS fit together better than that.

Where did you get that stock set again?

Really ,I have bought a couple of generic stock sets from reputable vendors and had no problems,
but that is just PURE JUNK

Replace it
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 5:42:34 AM EST


That castle nut looks surprisingly similar to the Leapers-style stock I have. I didn't have any problems with it though. If you switch over to DPMS or RRA, you won't regret it.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 6:57:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/16/2006 6:59:13 AM EST by mef223]
I think I have the same stock, bought at a gunshow. I had the same problems.

I'm at work right now so I don't have any pics, but I'll try to explain what I did.

The tube needs to be screwed in one more turn. Get an idea about how much material is blocking the upper from closing. Remove the tube and grab the file. Here's a drawing:


My castle nut also looked the same. I found that it would mate up to the lower better if I turned it around 180 degrees from the way you have it in the pic (with the big notches faving aft).

My tube is also canted upwards, just barely. I have maybe 400 rounds through the gun with no problems. It functions perfectly but I think the face of the buffer if being worn out quicker because the carrier hits it slightly unevenly. Looks cosmetic only, and I'm not worried about it.

I've learned my lesson and will spend the money on a name brand stock next time.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 7:46:29 AM EST
I bought the cheap $35 4-position stock because I couldn't find any inexpensive name brand 4-position stocks. Everyone has jumped to the 6 position stock M4 bandwagon. The 4-position CAR stock is smaller and shorter, which is what I wanted.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 8:08:18 AM EST
Stop trying to cobble together that POS you have now. go here and buy a quality stock set and be done with it.

Paul will have it to you in 3 days

Bravo Co.


Link Posted: 4/16/2006 4:45:22 PM EST
agreed...just buy a new one and be done w/ it...i mean i know it sux being out the money but is it worth your time/hassle/risks......i bought the 6 pos stag stock off bravo co. and shipping was fast and it's worked great.....the only thing i didn't like about the stag stock is the markings on the stock itself being have a factory colt rifle but i really am not a fan boy for just one brand and besides my rifle is more about function than looks....and it works for me...jmho
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 4:58:00 PM EST
buy a new one and stop di..ing around.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 5:33:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lapp_Dance:

My guess is that it's a low-priced aftermarket stock. Honestly, your best bet and your best buy is find a dealer who stocks and sells CMT/Stag parts. The CMT/Stag stock is mil-spec, at non-mil-spec prices.

YMMV



Holy smokes, I had to quote myself.

Way up near the top of this thread I advised you to get a new stock. For what you spent on "Brand-Unknown" + only a couple more dollars, you could have some of the best. CMT/Stag are the same thing, and both are mil-spec stocks. Very worth the money.

But once again, it's your call.
Link Posted: 4/16/2006 8:52:24 PM EST
Yeah, I'm convinced it's time to move up. I'm going to contact the dealer to see if they will take it back, even though it's two months since the 14 day return policy ran out (damn those backorders!).

I'll let everyone know how it goes. Thanks for all the input!!
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