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Posted: 10/3/2004 2:28:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 6:07:31 AM EST by jar3ds]
Hello All...

just got back from drill and want to share with you 3 issues i found with out m16a2's...

1) one fail to feed due to a black follower... get magpuls

2) a soldier got issued a weapon to qualify with and it had a tag on it.. i asked him what the tag said and it read "gas tube clogged" ... I told him gas tubes just don't clogg... after a closer look at his weapon there was a que-tip stuck down in his gas key in his carrier... this is just another example of the army's gay cleaning techniques that cause damage... people are so parinoid about getting their cleaned AR through the white glove technique we are making our rifles more messed up... and we wonder why people like Jessica Lynch had a jammed weapon... retarded.... (rant over) sorry



3) and three... which is more interesting... a soldier was having difficulty charging his weapon... he handed it to an NCO who really pulled hard... the handle gave and he pulled the gas tube out of the front sight base(gas block)... the roll pin sheered and the whole tube was sticking half in the receiver and half out...

a) i noticed on my weapon that the inside of my upper the portion of the gas tube that sticks out was VERY wobbley... and my carrier was very rough and lightly chipped along the rim...



----

heh does anyone have anything to add... such as how #3 acually happend? Somehow the gas tube and key must have 'glued' together... or something... Let me know your thoughts!

Shoot Straight,

Jared

PS.

38/40 the credit goes to AR15.com
Link Posted: 10/3/2004 2:49:11 PM EST
That is freaking bizarre! I would have expected the alloy charging handle to give way before the steel roll pin would shear in the gas block. Any chance you got pics of this??? And did you get a good look at how the charging handle and gas tube were stuck together?
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:42:50 AM EST
no i so wish i would have had pics... next time i'm going to bring my camera... they rushed the gun off to the armor before i could get up and close look at it..

i just really wonder about this
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 5:48:14 AM EST
You wouldn't happen to be in the National Guard, would you? As a former Marine Corps armorer, I cringed at the weapons maintenance practices described to me by my friend in the NG. They were issued rifles, and handed random bolts/bolt carriers from a box. Rifles were never headspaced, function checked, LTI'd etc. I was just waiting to hear about a KB.

Semper Fi
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:06:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 6:09:13 AM EST by jar3ds]
heh.... i am in the NG... and i as you rant at the way they treat their weapons... we aren't going to so far as getting bolts out of a box... (acually theres a big protocol that forces every bolt to stay with its upper) but its mainly in the cleaning aspect...

they want every weapon to be BONE DRY.. and they wonder why they get a little rusted... they'll say well it wasn't cleaned the best... but all it needs is a little CLP in the right places... but don't listen to me

even when i was in active duty basic training... we are taught nothing about lubercation of the ar15.. our Drill S. are just saying "SPRAY SOME IN THE EXJECTION PORT!" that does nothing for the rifle just hads a ton of junk to where dirt and dust can attract... nothing about lubing the bolt... nothing about lubing lugs... nothing about carieer rails... nothing... this is why i CAN believe we had jams in iraq... our NCO's are gun stupid... and the only knowledge they know is from the army... which is alraedy corrupt in their thinking...

look at me go, shame on me
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:37:48 AM EST

even when i was in active duty basic training... we are taught nothing about lubercation of the ar15.. our Drill S. are just saying "SPRAY SOME IN THE EXJECTION PORT!" that does nothing for the rifle just hads a ton of junk to where dirt and dust can attract... nothing about lubing the bolt... nothing about lubing lugs... nothing about carieer rails... nothing... this is why i CAN believe we had jams in iraq... our NCO's are gun stupid... and the only knowledge they know is from the army... which is alraedy corrupt in their thinking...
- Where did you attend Basic; Relaxin' Jackson? The Drills down at Benning were squared the F away when it came to weapon issues.


Whwen it comes to the Gas tube pulling out, sounds like someone at 3rd shop or higher dropped the ball when replacing the gas tube.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 6:59:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By USMC2111:
You wouldn't happen to be in the National Guard, would you? As a former Marine Corps armorer, I cringed at the weapons maintenance practices described to me by my friend in the NG. They were issued rifles, and handed random bolts/bolt carriers from a box. Rifles were never headspaced, function checked, LTI'd etc. I was just waiting to hear about a KB.

Semper Fi



The national guard did required storage or transportation of weapons without the bolts, I do not believe it is still a requirement. Bolts were reqired to be tagged, marked, or stored in such a way as to not mix the bolts up. A tool roll type bag was issued for bolt storage.

Checking headspace or LTI is not unit level maintenance, and would never be done at the unit. If he was not the armorer, he would probably never know whether it was done. If he never function checked his rifle, he was a shitty soldier. He should not blame the unit for his failure to do his job.

I must resist the urge to defend the guard's honor from what might seem to be a veiled attack. Half of out troops deployed overseas right now (or close to it) are NG. Having been to Iraq with a National Guard unit, I am qualified to have an opinion on thier mission capablility.

The NG generally have far more experience than active duty units, most people having had multiple MOSs, often from other branches of service, and experience in the civilian world as well. Most are older, and more mature. The NG in Iraq was more capable, easier to work with, and got the job done faster than active duty units. Most people just can't get past appearances.

~Doug
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:57:03 AM EST
i attended BT at Fort Knox undergoing 19D Cavlary Scout training... i know... go figure
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 8:57:35 AM EST
this isn't also i diss on the NG... its just a diss on how my experience has been with the army when it comes to weapon maintance and cleaning...
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:41:30 AM EST

19D Cavlary Scout
- Everyone knows the only true scout is a 11B with a V indentifier
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:12:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By eodinert:
The national guard did required storage or transportation of weapons without the bolts, I do not believe it is still a requirement. Bolts were reqired to be tagged, marked, or stored in such a way as to not mix the bolts up. A tool roll type bag was issued for bolt storage........



When I was in the NG, it was the same for us (at least in my Infantry Bn)....

As to cleaning, I would agree that at the time (the 1980's), the Army/NG was fanatical about weapons being immaculate. I saw more bolts/bolt carriers cleaned to the point where the grey/green phosphate coating had been scrubbed completely off. Based upon the original post, looks like things have not changed for the better. I have been fortunate enough to have seen the light and treat my personal weapons much better.


Originally Posted By eodinert:
......The NG generally have far more experience than active duty units, most people having had multiple MOSs, often from other branches of service, and experience in the civilian world as well. Most are older, and more mature. The NG in Iraq was more capable, easier to work with, and got the job done faster than active duty units. Most people just can't get past appearances.



Amen to that! When someone mentions NG, folks immediately conjure-up images of the movie "Southern Comfort" and think all NG units are of that ilk.

The part about getting the job done faster reminds me of an ARTEP we had. At the end of the eval, the evaluating NCO's commented positively on how quickly we accomplished the tasks required. We simply replied:

"hey, the sooner we got the job done, the sooner we get to take a break!"

This definately reflects on the civilian world influence on the Guard.

Link Posted: 10/4/2004 10:58:19 AM EST
Jessica Lynch had her m16 in a plastic bag behind her seat.
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