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Posted: 5/29/2008 2:54:07 PM EDT
I bought 200rds of once reloaded ammo to try out before ordering a case. I'm glad I did. I was expecting some dings in the case from extraction, but these were worst than I expected. Here are a few pictures of the ammo. Are these OK to shoot?

1) Almost all of the shoulders are "wavy." You can see and feel ripples in the case.


2) About half the rounds have large dents on the shoulder.


3) A handful of the rounds have nicks in the case at the top of the throat.




I hope to try these out within the next week or two. If they shoot OK, I guess they will work, but I'm not confident in this ammo right now.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 3:02:03 PM EDT
I'd really rather not shoot it, if I were you.  
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 4:40:35 PM EDT
why did you buy some dudes reloads? Do you atleast know how much powder/primers he claimed to use?
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 4:53:25 PM EDT
I bought these from a large online dealer, not just some guy. They are reloaded by a company. All LC and Winchester brass, Winchester bullets and primers and hodgdon powder.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 5:00:33 PM EDT
What Company?

If an established ammo Remanufacture... I would cull out the ugly ones  and test some others.

Reloads are risky business from all but a few manufactures.

.02
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 5:19:04 PM EDT
nope!
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 5:27:36 PM EDT
That is some bad looking ammo.  My fingers and eyes are worth too much to me to shoot that stuff.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 5:31:31 PM EDT
No thanks on that ammo!~
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 5:41:28 PM EDT
I sent an e-mail to the distributor asking about the ammo. I'm going to wait until I hear from him to post either the manufacturer or dealer name. The majority of the rounds don't look quite as bad as these, but they are not nearly as nice as the photo shown on the Web site.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 5:41:54 PM EDT
I didnt see anything Id shoot.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 5:56:27 PM EDT
I would never shoot ammo that looked like that
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 7:22:08 PM EDT
Not in any of my guns.  Not sure some of those will even with the bukge below the shoulder.  Stuck live-round ready to happen.  Contact the seller if your not satisfied..If he's a good seller he will refund or exchange.  Even if it cost u some shipping it's cheaper than your AR.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 8:25:48 PM EDT
I shoot Ultramax reloads at the range for anything 100yds or less and have never had rounds that looked anything but perfect. I also tried 200rds of GA canned heat but found my Ultramax was more accurate, cheaper, and locally available.

I wouldn't shoot them, i'd be trying to get my money back, those are hideous!
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 8:55:33 PM EDT
200 rds of 223 ammo is worth what...about $70 these days?

How much is your rifle worth?

I just went through this with some crappy surplus .308. Decided it wasn't worth it. I'd rather pay an extra $100/case to save my rifle.
Link Posted: 5/29/2008 9:41:01 PM EDT

Quoted:
200 rds of 223 ammo is worth what...about $70 these days?

How much is your rifle hand/eye sight worth?

I just went through this with some crappy surplus .308. Decided it wasn't worth it. I'd rather pay an extra $100/case to save my rifle.
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 3:24:23 AM EDT
No way in hell I'd shoot those.  

The dented shoulders is generally something you see when re-sizing dies have crud in them, or the cases are over lubed.  

The creased case mouths are indicative of excessive runout during bullet seating or poor case prep on the front end...poorly maintained or set up equipment either way.  

The fact that these found their way to your house and this forum indicate a complete lack of Quality Control processes.  

What else is fucked up that you can't readily see???  Want to take that chance?  Get your money back.  That ammo is entirely unacceptable.
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 5:03:46 AM EDT
Well I was going to shoot some of the better looking ones, but I think after the distributor gets back to me I'm going to ask for an exchange with some factory ammo.
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 7:20:50 AM EDT
As my son would say, "seriously DUDE", those rounds are crap.  I'm sure they will go bang but YOU might as well.  I reload and I assure you mine don't look like these.  Get your moolaw back.
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 7:49:44 AM EDT

Quoted:
I bought these from a large online dealer, not just some guy. They are reloaded by a company. All LC and Winchester brass, Winchester bullets and primers and hodgdon powder.


Contact the seller and show them the photos............see what they will do to "make it right."

Aloha, Mark
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 10:39:58 AM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
I bought these from a large online dealer, not just some guy. They are reloaded by a company. All LC and Winchester brass, Winchester bullets and primers and hodgdon powder.


Contact the seller and show them the photos............see what they will do to "make it right."

Aloha, Mark


+1
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 11:06:42 AM EDT
Those look like ass. If you want to shoot them more power to you. I personally would not shoot them. I value my limbs, eyesight, and rifle too much.
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 1:46:14 PM EDT
You couldn't pay me to touch those.
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 2:09:00 PM EDT
Here's a quick update.

The ammo was remanufactured by DRS. I bought it from Ammunition to Go. John at ATG has already sent me a replacement 200rds. I've got my fingers crossed that this was just a bad batch. I'll let everyone know how the new shipment looks.

I want to emphasize that I'm extremely happy with the customer service I've received from Ammunition to Go. Although I doubt I'll buy more DRS reloads, I will continue to order from ATG. So far their service has been tops.  
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 5:02:55 PM EDT
I've put dents in the shoulder like that from too much lube.  I would not consider that a problem.  The folds in the neck look like dinged necks that were not straightened or culled when they should have been.  Looks like it could wedge in the chamber and stick or cause pressure problems.
It does not look like something that I would want to pay for or even take for free.
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 6:54:40 PM EDT
I'll be the contrarian, if they'll chamber they're safe to shoot.  Yeah they're ugly, the ones with the shoulder dents will blow out.  The ones with the little folds wont harm anything, when fired the body of the case expands and seals all the gasses from blowing back.  Same deal with the last one, if it'll chamber.
Link Posted: 5/30/2008 9:53:59 PM EDT
The lube dents no problem, the dented shoulder........okay, but the nicks in the necks?  I say no because of splitting.  

Dents just blow out.  The INTERNAL condition is what would concern me.  Are the powder charges prudent and consistent?
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 6:10:54 AM EDT
1 - the cases look a bit long, see the jaw marks left on the case mouth from the initial crimp at factory.. if the case was trimmed, those marks around the case mouth usually is gone.

2 - the minor dings at shoulder from lube, if they chamber, shoot them.  

3 - the little nick at case mouth, if they chamber, shoot them.

4 - the couple with the case mouth bowed outward, thats a given, the outward bow is fatter than the OD of the case neck, pull them down and salvage the primer, powder, and bullet.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 10:30:38 AM EDT
As a reloader I would say those rounds are crap. Very poor quality of work. Makes you wonder about the quality of the work that is not visible. I never shoot others reloads.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 5:41:27 PM EDT
#1 looks okay to shoot

#2 Okay, but not great.

#3 & #4 No way

I reload and would say that by looking at those cases, I would not shoot any of those.
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 5:57:25 PM EDT
No !

'nuff said
Link Posted: 5/31/2008 7:46:41 PM EDT
The cost of a replacement upper (at best) negates the cost savings of using questionable ammo. Id rather spend 100 more per case and get quality factory new stuff than blow up my gun and have to spend at least 1500 to replace it.


Link Posted: 6/1/2008 4:59:11 PM EDT

Quoted:
I'll be the contrarian, if they'll chamber they're safe to shoot.  Yeah they're ugly, the ones with the shoulder dents will blow out.  The ones with the little folds wont harm anything, when fired the body of the case expands and seals all the gasses from blowing back.  Same deal with the last one, if it'll chamber.


I agree with this.  the only wild card would be if this represents a general sloppiness of overall work.  

I hand fed some freight damaged ammo that looked worse.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 2:18:13 PM EDT
W -T- F .  It's amazing how some business do (or don't do) quality control.  If I were you I'd try to get my money back.  If it looks that bad on the outside, what does it look like on the inside (powder charge).  Even if the replacement looks ok - will YOU after you shoot it?
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 3:54:42 PM EDT

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'll be the contrarian, if they'll chamber they're safe to shoot.  Yeah they're ugly, the ones with the shoulder dents will blow out.  The ones with the little folds wont harm anything, when fired the body of the case expands and seals all the gasses from blowing back.  Same deal with the last one, if it'll chamber.


I agree with this.  the only wild card would be if this represents a general sloppiness of overall work.  

I hand fed some freight damaged ammo that looked worse.


I agree with your assessment, as a consumer I wouldn't be happy. From a safety standpoint, yeah, IF they'll chamber they'll safe to shoot.  As a reloader I'd pull the bullet, save the powder, decap and save the primers, and put the brass in the scrap brass bucket.
Link Posted: 6/2/2008 4:46:54 PM EDT
Absolutely unacceptable.  Perhaps only some of them have visible defects, but you have to wonder what defects are hidden in the other rounds.  I'd get my money back, or if that's impossible, disassemble them, throw away the powder, punch out the primers, and recycle the brass.  The bullets might be worth salvaging.

A good rule is, if you have any doubts, DON'T use it.  Listen to your intuition.  Apply this to factory as well as your own reloads.  There have been times when I chose to disassemble a whole batch (50-ish rounds) of my own reloads because I had lingering doubts, or found later that the powder measure was occasionally throwing over max charge.  Doing so is a regrettable waste of time & effort, but it's a lot easier than replacing a gun, or worse.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 8:17:13 AM EDT
I got the replacement shipment this morning. They were a lot better, but still had some defects. I won't be buying any more of the DRS ammo.

I just placed an order with Ammunition to Go for some Silver Bear. If it shoots good, I'll start using it.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:57:26 PM EDT
Again.  W-T-F !! Seller has no quality control.  The seller was sending you replacement ammo because the last lot was crap, and the replacement still has defects ?!?!
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 6:56:02 AM EDT
The majority of the rounds (with small ripples) are hard to see through the packaging. Factor that in with a lot of the larger dents facing away from the outside, and the ammo looks good at first glance. It's not until inspecting the rounds by hand that you notice the defects.

Again, the small ripples don't bother me, the brass expands so much when fired they won't be a problem. Maybe people shoot this ammo without looking at it and have no problems. Maybe I'm just picky. Either way, the chipped cases/large dents are unacceptable IMO. The manufacturer's QC shouldn't let that kind of stuff get out.

Ammo to Go, on the other hand, did everything it could to make this right as fast as possible. That's great service.

But hey, live and learn. From now on I'm sticking to factory ammo. No more reloads for me, except my own of course.  

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