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Posted: 9/4/2004 9:41:09 AM EST
Still have store credit with ASA, but I'm suspicious of their workmanship. I'm not sure who builds small parts for them, probably some kids in PRC. Does it really matter who I get lower parts from?
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 9:47:12 AM EST
Yes I believe that they are not created equal. When in doubt, get from one of the major AR makers such as Colt, Bushmaster, and etc.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 10:32:11 AM EST
I have only used Bushmaster and RRA, no problems with either one.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 11:27:36 AM EST
I have used DPMS, Bushmaster, RRA and one unknown and they all looked exactly the same to me except for the finish (or lack of it for the most part) on the mag catch on the unknown parts kit. I wouldn't be surpised if they are all the same.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 1:28:41 PM EST
I just can't believe there are that many manufacturers of these parts... maybe one or two in the whole US for each part ? When we hear about batches of "bad" parts, the same problem seems to crop up with multiple manufacturers - I remember some people complaining about bad bolt catches with Model 1 and RRA a while back, for example. I wouldn't worry too much... just inspect each part prior to use, and replace any parts that you feel could be suspect.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 1:53:47 PM EST
I, personally like the bushmaster lower parts kits. but all i have experience with is them, jt, and rock river. one of my rr kits had an odd looking take down pin other than that it was good. jt was a good kit also all went together good that is until is used the bm kit which in my opinion is by far the best..

all the dentent are machine beautifully and all parts looked good compared to the others i have dealt with. but all in all they all do the same thing and nothing has malfunctioned so there you have it


oh there was that one case i had were the bolt catch on the jt kit snapped but i think that was my fault.., dry firing without upper installed
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 2:16:21 PM EST
No.

Some parts kits suck.

I refuse to buy bushmaster lower parts kits.

I bought one.

It had a plastic trigger guard.
It had a hex screw for the pistol grip.

I called and asked. They claimed that was military spec.

I have handled many M16's and M4's. NEver once have i foudn a plstic trigger guard or a hex screw for in a pistol grip.

Big deal? No.
Did i like the change? No.

I'll stick with DPMS for now.
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 2:24:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By NAM:
No.

I called and asked. They claimed that was military spec.




The "its milspec" claim is standard for Bushmaster... even though there is no milspec for AR15s !
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 2:29:33 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/4/2004 2:30:04 PM EST by eklikwhoa]
i like the hex screw instead of the slotted. but thats me also like the plastic trigger guard too!

they all do the same thing i depends on what you wanna spend your money on.

but some look nicer doing it
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 2:37:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By ShadowOne:
Still have store credit with ASA, but I'm suspicious of their workmanship. I'm not sure who builds small parts for them, probably some kids in PRC. Does it really matter who I get lower parts from?



www.sawlesales.com
Link Posted: 9/4/2004 3:00:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
I have only used Bushmaster and RRA, no problems with either one.



Ditto on that, no probs at all.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 5:44:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 12:27:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By NAM:
No.

Some parts kits suck.

I refuse to buy bushmaster lower parts kits.

I bought one.

It had a plastic trigger guard.
It had a hex screw for the pistol grip.

I called and asked. They claimed that was military spec.

I have handled many M16's and M4's. NEver once have i foudn a plstic trigger guard or a hex screw for in a pistol grip.

Big deal? No.
Did i like the change? No.

I'll stick with DPMS for now.



As far as I can tell, everyone but Colt is using the hex type screws these days, even your beloved DPMS (whom I hate with a passion, but that's another story).

I agree that the plastic TGs are shlocky, but that's the only bitch I have with their stuff. They at least send the same high quality parts out on a consistent basis, somthing I cannot say for any other supplier. Everyone but Colt and Bushie buy their pieces from subcontractors who DO NOT inspect their pieces before shipping, and the makers don't either, if you're just ordering the internals. I've had crappy jusk and/or broken parts from DPMS. Rock River, and a couple of other places as well. Hell, DPMS sold me a lower assy with a gouged buttstock right out of the box, an out of spec nonfunctional bolt hold open, and a mag release buttomn that was so wierd looking I couldn't stand the sight of it.

Colt and Bushmaster buy outside produced parts too, but unlike all the others, they apparently inspect the stuff before they ship it. Maybe that's why their stuff costs a bit more. You want cheap? Then plan on doing the final inspection on what you get, because everyone else is saving a buck or two by not doing a final inspection. They're counting on the buyer to find the one in 50, or 60, or 100 bad piece, and either send it back; or better yet, just going out and buying another one on his own
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 12:46:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By shamayim:
As far as I can tell, everyone but Colt is using the hex type screws these days, even your beloved DPMS (whom I hate with a passion, but that's another story).



Sorry, but you are wrong. I just bought three brand new in the package DPMS lower parts kits, and none of them use hex screws. Even the older lower parts kits from DPMS haven't had them, so I don't know where you are getting that they do or are using them. I bought mine direct from www.dpmsinc.com, so if you're getting them with a hex screw, some retailer is changing them out.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 1:41:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By jtb33:

Originally Posted By shamayim:
As far as I can tell, everyone but Colt is using the hex type screws these days, even your beloved DPMS (whom I hate with a passion, but that's another story).



Sorry, but you are wrong. I just bought three brand new in the package DPMS lower parts kits, and none of them use hex screws. Even the older lower parts kits from DPMS haven't had them, so I don't know where you are getting that they do or are using them. I bought mine direct from www.dpmsinc.com, so if you're getting them with a hex screw, some retailer is changing them out.



Mine were DPMS purchased through CMMG, and none had the hex.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 1:49:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By shamayim:
Colt and Bushmaster buy outside produced parts too, but unlike all the others, they apparently inspect the stuff before they ship it. Maybe that's why their stuff costs a bit more. You want cheap? Then plan on doing the final inspection on what you get, because everyone else is saving a buck or two by not doing a final inspection. They're counting on the buyer to find the one in 50, or 60, or 100 bad piece, and either send it back; or better yet, just going out and buying another one on his own



Yup, it's all about QC. Colt (and perhaps Bushmaster as well) probably ask for a QC inspection to be done before it ships to them and then do another QC inspection themselves upon receipt of the parts. This is why their parts usually cost more.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 4:01:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By jtb33:

Originally Posted By shamayim:
As far as I can tell, everyone but Colt is using the hex type screws these days, even your beloved DPMS (whom I hate with a passion, but that's another story).



Sorry, but you are wrong. I just bought three brand new in the package DPMS lower parts kits, and none of them use hex screws. Even the older lower parts kits from DPMS haven't had them, so I don't know where you are getting that they do or are using them. I bought mine direct from www.dpmsinc.com, so if you're getting them with a hex screw, some retailer is changing them out.



Well, the unit I bought came with a hex screw, so I guess that makesYOU wrong. Damn it, don't tell me I'm wrong when you have no idea what my experience has been. If you've had a different experience, by all means ahare it--but I, and this board, don't need your bad manners

Just goes to show you that DPMS buye their crap all over the place, and you CANNOT count on any consistency from them. Another reason not to spend money with them!
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 4:11:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By shamayim:

Originally Posted By jtb33:

Originally Posted By shamayim:
As far as I can tell, everyone but Colt is using the hex type screws these days, even your beloved DPMS (whom I hate with a passion, but that's another story).



Sorry, but you are wrong. I just bought three brand new in the package DPMS lower parts kits, and none of them use hex screws. Even the older lower parts kits from DPMS haven't had them, so I don't know where you are getting that they do or are using them. I bought mine direct from www.dpmsinc.com, so if you're getting them with a hex screw, some retailer is changing them out.



Well, the unit I bought came with a hex screw, so I guess that makesYOU wrong. Damn it, don't tell me I'm wrong when you have no idea what my experience has been. If you've had a different experience, by all means ahare it--but I, and this board, don't need your bad manners

Just goes to show you that DPMS buye their crap all over the place, and you CANNOT count on any consistency from them. Another reason not to spend money with them!



How many DPMS lower parts kits have you bought? Where did you buy it/them from?
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 5:24:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/5/2004 5:26:06 PM EST by j3_]
The link is to a current DPMS kit from Midway
www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/applications/mediasvr.dll/highresimage?saleitemid=877204

Thought I would mention the the slotted screws are shorter that the Colt slotted screws in my guns by about three threads.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 6:27:30 PM EST
posted by dennysguns

All my lower parts kits come from J&T or CMT. This way I am assured of getting quality made in USA parts. Not parts from the lowest bidder.

Denny



Thanks, Denny. I've got two J&T LPKs sitting waiting go into my lowers. Makes me feel better about using their kits.


It had a hex screw for the pistol grip.


Forgive me fellows for the ignorant question, but why not just go down to the local Home Depot and purchase a slot head screw for your grip? I kind of like the hex head because you can kind of honk down on the screw without buggering up the screw...
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 6:44:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/5/2004 6:52:21 PM EST by j3_]

Forgive me fellows for the ignorant question, but why not just go down to the local Home Depot and purchase a slot head screw for your grip?


Because it is a 1/4 28 fine thread 1" long or longer and no one stocks them in a slotted fillister head.

I have been buying allen button head stainless bolts 1 1/4" from a company off the net and using them to get a little longer thread engagement but you have to be careful cause they can reach the bottom of the trigger on some lowers.
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 7:46:01 PM EST
nothing in this world or life is created equal....not even ar-15 lowers

read reviews and get opionions on brands
Link Posted: 9/5/2004 11:23:22 PM EST
If you have a decent old fashioned hardware store in your area you can probably find a 1/4-28x1 slotted fillister head screw. I bought my LPK from White Oak Armament and it came with a socket cap screw. I'll probably head down to the True Value and get a new screw in stainless. The True Value near me has it all.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:45:54 AM EST
I've used Model 1 and DPMS parts kits. The detent indentation on the Model 1 pivot pin was too deep and it wouldn't open after I assembled it. I had to buy a set of dental picks to get it open. And the Model 1 bolt catch had a squigly gouge. I returned it and they sent me an identical one. I replaced that with a RRA bolt catch. And the detent indentations on the Model 1 selector were shallow. I replaced that with RRA selector. Despite that, I would buy another Model 1 kit again but use Rock River or DPMS parts kit and keep the Model 1 parts as spares.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:52:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/6/2004 3:54:22 AM EST by LocknLoaded]

Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:

Originally Posted By NAM:
No.

I called and asked. They claimed that was military spec.




The "its milspec" claim is standard for Bushmaster... even though there is no milspec for AR15s !



that is true! but you can put mil-spec parts on an ar15 except the lower and the lower parts. take the buffer tube for example I did not know there were non speced tubes until i read MSTN's threads. I found very interesting. you can put mil-spec uppers, barrels, sight's, etc! on.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 3:55:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By cjklekar:


Forgive me fellows for the ignorant question, but why not just go down to the local Home Depot and purchase a slot head screw for your grip? I kind of like the hex head because you can kind of honk down on the screw without buggering up the screw...



hehe


Buggering up the screw.

Six weeks in England this summer makes me giggle at that phrase.

Anyhoo, good thread... I'm getting a Bushmaster parts kit thanks to this one.

- BG
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:22:36 AM EST

Originally Posted By cjklekar:
Forgive me fellows for the ignorant question, but why not just go down to the local Home Depot and purchase a slot head screw for your grip?



The lower parts kit is supposed to be complete. I don't want to have to go find extra parts. It shoudl be complete. I will be buying DPMS. I've got 6 slick M16's (very old vietnam lowers, pinned buffer, hole through the take down pin, no mag fence) and not even those have a hex screw.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:33:02 AM EST
+1 on Bushmaster parts (unless you are willing to spend the BIG bucks on Colt parts).

I for one prefer the hex head pistol grip screws - it makes installation a LOT easier. Also, I don't prefer the plastic trigger guards, but I just use them until I get a deal on metal replacements at the next fun show. It's not important enough to me to make me buy lesser parts just to get a metal trigger guard.
JMHO, YMMV, ETC, et al
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 8:57:57 AM EST
My DPMS lower parts kit didnt come with a hex screw. I'm going to be polite about his, but it seems to me, shamayim, that you need to be more careful with where you buy your AR stuff.

Also Lauer Custom Weaponry uses all DPMS internals and they make a better gun than Colt, Bushmaster, RRA, ect. That may say something, but I don't know.
Link Posted: 9/6/2004 9:24:12 AM EST
I only use Bushy & Colt lower parts, All the other lower parts I have used just don't measure up.
They will all work but if you look closely you will see the differences, Stamped sears (with rounded edges), out of spec hammers & triggers.
I will stick with Colt & Bushy
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 8:31:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 8:33:09 AM EST by AGC]

Originally Posted By gus:
+1 on Bushmaster parts (unless you are willing to spend the BIG bucks on Colt parts).

I for one prefer the hex head pistol grip screws - it makes installation a LOT easier. Also, I don't prefer the plastic trigger guards, but I just use them until I get a deal on metal replacements at the next fun show. It's not important enough to me to make me buy lesser parts just to get a metal trigger guard.
JMHO, YMMV, ETC, et al




Damn right.

The hex head screws are an _improvement_ over the slotted ones. Lot harder to tear up the screwhead with an Allen wrench than a screwdriver. If it really bothers you, MacMaster-Carr can probably sell you 7 lifetimes' worth of "correct" screws for about $6.

The plastic triggerguards? Cheesy, but so what? They're at least functional.

I can't believe people are worried about absolutely _trivial_ issues like the style of screwhead---what, are they concerned someone is going to shine a flashlight up inside the grip and verbally spank them for being "non-milspec"?---all the while ignoring the _far_ more important issue of the quality (or lack thereof) of the hammers, triggers and disconnectors.

I've repaired several ARs built with no-name parts sets, and a couple of them were brought to me because they were doubling (firing on release of trigger) due to crappy soft cast hammers and triggers, and complete-and-utter-shite stamped disconnectors.

We're talking about parts that create unsafe weapons that could get someone _killed_.

All to save $5 or $6 on the parts set.

Needless to add, there were plenty of other problems---some cosmetic, some functional---with the cheap parts sets: crappy cast bolt catches that gouged and cracked, soft plastic magazine buttons that stripped from the threaded stem, magazine catches that snapped at the joint... Compared to those, a "non-authentic" hexhead screw (of good quality steel) is the last thing anyone should be worried about.

I won't use anything besides Bushmaster lower parts sets now. The aggravation of replacing defective junk---and the potential liability of using dangerous junk---makes paying a few dollars more a bargain.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 11:43:07 AM EST
I will not use any but RRA or ArmaLite. There is a huge difference.

The true 'rolled' pins make everything go much more smoothly.

I refuse to use slotted head PG screws, mine go straight to the trash. I bought a box of 100 socket-head screws a long time ago. Should last my lifetime.



Link Posted: 9/7/2004 12:40:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By j3_:

Forgive me fellows for the ignorant question, but why not just go down to the local Home Depot and purchase a slot head screw for your grip?


Because it is a 1/4 28 fine thread 1" long or longer and no one stocks them in a slotted fillister head.

I have been buying allen button head stainless bolts 1 1/4" from a company off the net and using them to get a little longer thread engagement but you have to be careful cause they can reach the bottom of the trigger on some lowers.



Which is probably why almost everyone is using the allen heads these days. Obviously, someone is making the slotted head pieces, but niether the Home Depot nor the Lowes in Rome, Georgia stock them. In fact, niether of them even stock the hex type in 1/4x28 thread. Really ticks me off
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 12:43:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By M11293:
My DPMS lower parts kit didnt come with a hex screw. I'm going to be polite about his, but it seems to me, shamayim, that you need to be more careful with where you buy your AR stuff.

Also Lauer Custom Weaponry uses all DPMS internals and they make a better gun than Colt, Bushmaster, RRA, ect. That may say something, but I don't know.



Absolutely right. I have gotten more careful where I buy my AR stuff; which is why I don't do business with DPMS any more
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 2:01:59 PM EST
You could screw the correct stainless slotted screws till the plastic grip gave way or the lower threads did and I doubt you would mess its head up. It is not a cheap stove bolt and the material you are screwing it into is pretty soft.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:48:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By shamayim:

Originally Posted By j3_:

Forgive me fellows for the ignorant question, but why not just go down to the local Home Depot and purchase a slot head screw for your grip?


Because it is a 1/4 28 fine thread 1" long or longer and no one stocks them in a slotted fillister head.

I have been buying allen button head stainless bolts 1 1/4" from a company off the net and using them to get a little longer thread engagement but you have to be careful cause they can reach the bottom of the trigger on some lowers.



Which is probably why almost everyone is using the allen heads these days. Obviously, someone is making the slotted head pieces, but niether the Home Depot nor the Lowes in Rome, Georgia stock them. In fact, niether of them even stock the hex type in 1/4x28 thread. Really ticks me off



McMaster-Carr, Fastenal, MSC Supply, J&L Supply ...



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