Colt
Armalite
Bushy
etc.
Is this the widely accepted order of quality ?...............Please keep the opinions out ,just looking for the most commonly accepted order of the best AR?

It could only be opinion.

removed

Quoted:

that poor poor horse

Quoted: Colt Armalite Bushy etc. Is this the widely accepted order of quality ?...............Please keep the opinions out ,just looking for the most commonly accepted order of the best AR?

I don't know how you could keep opinions out since all the guns are essentially the same. As for my opinion I'd rate Colt dead last. Yeah, sure, their quality is good and they are the supplier to Uncle Sam but they treat the rest of us like children who can't be trusted. Nope, any AR maker who installs trigger sear blocks and uses non-standard part dimensions on their civilian guns is not worthy of an honest, law-abiding citizens support.

Quoted: It could only be opinion.

I just meant keep the manufacturer bashing to ones self..and I know there are as many diff. answers as there are AR's

Quoted: Quoted: Colt Armalite Bushy etc. Is this the widely accepted order of quality ?...............Please keep the opinions out ,just looking for the most commonly accepted order of the best AR? I don't know how you could keep opinions out since all the guns are essentially the same. As for my opinion I'd rate Colt dead last. Yeah, sure, their quality is good and they are the supplier to Uncle Sam but they treat the rest of us like children who can't be trusted. Nope, any AR maker who installs trigger sear blocks and uses non-standard part dimensions on their civilian guns is not worthy of an honest, law-abiding citizens support.

see now facts like that will help me in my decision ,thanks

Are you interested in how they look, or how they perform (then what is your primary performance criteria accuracy or reliablity)?

removed

There are so many quality AR manufacturers out there now that the old "ABC" adage is pretty much worthless.  I would say there are more excellent manufacturers out there than bad, a lot more.  They are all pretty close in quality.

 

(sucked in again )

Colt- makes the best ARs. See quality, history, attention to detail

Bushmaster- #1 in civilian sales, copied colt well except buffer tube & barrel twist and detailed testing/QC

RRA- see Bushmaster but with out of specs lowers

Armalite: #4 for no good reason other than making unique FHs, and trying to be a trend-setter when everyone wants the real thing - only

Great thread...  I'm having trouble keeping track of the pecking order in my mind. But...  who will choose the order?  

I agree, For now the pecking order starts with Colt. Tossing out cost and making quality- reliability the main factor. They are all good for the most part, but people are not paying more for Colt's because they are less in quality. Colt has earned it's reputation and regardless of what some may say, they built great guns..... probably the best mass produced......

Mine is at the top...the rest merely follow

Quoted: (sucked in again ) Colt- makes the best ARs. See quality, history, attention to detail Bushmaster- #1 in civilian sales, copied colt well except buffer tube & barrel twist and detailed testing/QC RRA- see Bushmaster but with out of specs lowers Armalite: #4 for no good reason other than making unique FHs, and trying to be a trend-setter when everyone wants the real thing - only

pretty much sums it up, if you want the highest quaulity built exacly the way YOU want it, for a price that you can afford, build it yourself.

<begin Mark M immitation> THEY SHOULD ALL BE BANNED!!! <end Mark M immitation>

Quoted:

+1

FWIW, all 6 of my M16's/M4's I've had in the Army have all ben FN's.  However, it took until the most recent to actually be something that I like.  I don't care what the rifle looks like, fit, finish.  Who cares?  Does it go bang every time you pull the trigger?  Does it hit where you aim?  If yes to both....keep shooting.  

If you want to build something to show off and not use, go play with cars or motorcycles.  (I'm kidding of course)

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic
249th MP Detachment (EACF)
Camp Humphreys, ROK

Vulcan makes guns for the special forces. they must be highon the pecking order.

This is my Bushy  there are many like it but this one is mine..................... No 1 in my opion but thats just my 2c worth.    After all opions is what makes the world turn.

1. RRA
2. RRA
3. RRR
4. RRA
5. RRA

From the competitive shooter's perspective it's:

1) Customs (Compass Lake, White Oak)

2) Rock River

3) Bushmaster

4) Everyone else

5) Colt

considering the quality of ARs most of the big name manufacturers are producing an easier question might be which to avoid.

questionable or terrible:
Vulcan and/or Hesse
any cast receiver



and before someone steps in to talk shit about another mfg., most here will agree that all AR mfg.s can and do produce a lemon from time to time...including CLOT.

Quoted: I don't know how you could keep opinions out since all the guns are essentially the same. As for my opinion I'd rate Colt dead last. Yeah, sure, their quality is good and they are the supplier to Uncle Sam but they treat the rest of us like children who can't be trusted. Nope, any AR maker who installs trigger sear blocks and uses non-standard part dimensions on their civilian guns is not worthy of an honest, law-abiding citizens support.

Thank you, thank you thank you.  You took the words right out of my mouth.  A huge +1.  I will not buy a Colt for exactly that reason (and they're local to me).

Best AR is the one you have in your hands.

Quoted: Vulcan makes guns for the special forces. they must be highon the pecking order.

Oh that is just wrong on so many levels.

Quoted: (sucked in again hinking.gif) Colt- makes the best ARs. See quality, history, attention to detail Bushmaster- #1 in civilian sales, copied colt well except buffer tube & barrel twist and detailed testing/QC RRA- see Bushmaster but with out of specs lowers Armalite: #4 for no good reason other than making unique FHs, and trying to be a trend-setter when everyone wants the real thing - only I personally have a RR and an Armalite.Both are great guns. I am curious about the Armalite comment? I could not imagine any AR being much better than my little A4 middy. I have to admit that the Armalite factory trigger was horrible but is now replaced. The Armalite is not the least bit finicky about ammo but my RR ocassionally will fail to eject.  WE ALL LOVE WHAT WE HAVE,WIVES AND AR'S!!!!!!

Quoted: Vulcan makes guns for the special forces. they must be highon the pecking order.

Fixed it for ya!

No Expert

I've been researching ARs on this site for a couple months, maybe half an hour or an hour a day. I am no expert of any kind, but am in the same boat as BiggyD (who by his profile I assume is a fellow noob and is trying to learn the AR ropes). A brief summary of what I have learned since I was infected with BRD last August:

1. Colt-long, proud history. Been making guns forever and produce a rifle that functions as well as, if not slightly better, any other (though if they are better is always a constant and irritating debate). However, many reports of crappy customer service and a certain blatant dislike for civies (no experience with this myself). Also, in terms of fit and finish, many reports of super crabby cosmetic work. Tool marks, scratches, and the like staright from the factory on at least a certain number of new guns. I started a thread maybe 10 days ago and was really surprised at the responses I got http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=260375  I have decided not to go with Colt because of this, as I believe fit and finish should be there for a $1300 rifle. Call me a fag, I know it's a tool, etc. etc. Again, I am not in anyway debating the reliability of what are clearly proven rifles.

2. Bushmaster-Colt clone in many ways, minus barrel twist (1/9 instead of 1/7), buffer tube and some factory QC tests. Decent fit and finish, but many reports of poor factory QC.....countless reports of canted sights, and of people saying they had to send a rifle back to the factory. However, from what I have read they have awesome customer service and will fix a problem if there is one. Despite any issues, it seems there are many happy customers. Lots variety in what models are offered.

3. Rock River Arms-been getting more interested in these guys lately. Non Mil Spec lowers seem to concern some people. From what I have heard they have outstanding fit and finish. Their barrels are 4140 (I believe) instead of 4150 and this seems to worry some people too. Also, chrome lining is an option and is not standard. Customer service is supposed to be good and in honesty it seems there are few real complaints about RRA. Most owners seem to be very pleased all around. I will most likely go with an RRA for my first AR, for me it seems the best fit.

4.Armalite-haven't read much about them for some reason, so I won't go into it much. Some people seem really pleased, others seem to think they are over priced. But they've stayed in business this long so I'm sure they aren't screwing people. Again, someone better informed can deal with this one.

Anyway, that abouts sums up where I'm at with research. Hope I'm on the ball. In truth I'm sure any of the major names produce a perfectly reliable, high quality AR, which will serve most of us for many years. Just know what it is you want out of your rifle and then just keep reading posts on this site....you'll figure it out.

Quoted: I've been researching ARs on this site for a couple months, maybe half an hour or an hour a day. I am no expert of any kind, but am in the same boat as BiggyD (who by his profile I assume is a fellow noob and is trying to learn the AR ropes). A brief summary of what I have learned since I was infected with BRD last August: 1. Colt-long, proud history. Been making guns forever and produce a rifle that functions as well as, if not slightly better, any other (though if they are better is always a constant and irritating debate). However, many reports of crappy customer service and a certain blatant dislike for civies (no experience with this myself). Also, in terms of fit and finish, many reports of super crabby cosmetic work. Tool marks, scratches, and the like staright from the factory on at least a certain number of new guns. I started a thread maybe 10 days ago and was really surprised at the responses I got http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=260375  I have decided not to go with Colt because of this, as I believe fit and finish should be there for a $1300 rifle. Call me a fag, I know it's a tool, etc. etc. Again, I am not in anyway debating the reliability of what are clearly proven rifles. 2. Bushmaster-Colt clone in many ways, minus barrel twist (1/9 instead of 1/7), buffer tube and some factory QC tests. Decent fit and finish, but many reports of poor factory QC.....countless reports of canted sights, and of people saying they had to send a rifle back to the factory. However, from what I have read they have awesome customer service and will fix a problem if there is one. Despite any issues, it seems there are many happy customers. Lots variety in what models are offered. 3. Rock River Arms-been getting more interested in these guys lately. Non Mil Spec lowers seem to concern some people. From what I have heard they have outstanding fit and finish. Their barrels are 4140 (I believe) instead of 4150 and this seems to worry some people too. Also, chrome lining is an option and is not standard. Customer service is supposed to be good and in honesty it seems there are few real complaints about RRA. Most owners seem to be very pleased all around. I will most likely go with an RRA for my first AR, for me it seems the best fit. 4.Armalite-haven't read much about them for some reason, so I won't go into it much. Some people seem really pleased, others seem to think they are over priced. But they've stayed in business this long so I'm sure they aren't screwing people. Again, someone better informed can deal with this one. Anyway, that abouts sums up where I'm at with research. Hope I'm on the ball. In truth I'm sure any of the major names produce a perfectly reliable, high quality AR, which will serve most of us for many years. Just know what it is you want out of your rifle and then just keep reading posts on this site....you'll figure it out.

sorry forgot to make the link active. Here: ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=260375

Quoted: Quoted: that poor poor horse

Horse?  That is a donkey...  a.k.a.  "ass"...  

Quoted: Best AR is the one you have in your hands.

I'm tryin to get that one .........What I have is an AK that goes boom EVERY time .......and if I'm gonna shell out big $ on an ar it gawd damn well better toooo....I had been leaning toward Armalite ,no one seems to have much comments ....Colt -it seems you need to buy the LE only?Does that solve the probs mentioned so far?Bushy-I know the people that own them love them ,,I just believe when you buy a less expensive copy of something ,you usually get what you pay for ...as far as buying an AR and making changes to upgrade this or milspec that ...WTF ..doesn't anyone make one that goes boom boom boom outta the box ?

Quoted: 1. RRA 2. RRA 3. RRR 4. RRA 5. RRA hr

I agree!

Forgive my ignorance but what is meant by RRA lowers being out of spec?  I own a couple and had no idea they were out of spec, or that RRA makes out of spec lowers at all.

(not trying to fan the flames here)

Quoted: Forgive my ignorance but what is meant by RRA lowers being out of spec?  I own a couple and had no idea they were out of spec, or that RRA makes out of spec lowers at all. (not trying to fan the flames here)

Many are excessively tight in the rear take down lug area, requiring a file and rubber mallet for upper receiver installation.  It'll shoot out and loosen up, but since there's no real benefit, it shouldn't be this way in the first place.

Now if RRA would come out with 1/7 twist barrels in profiles I like, I may give them a second look.  Until then, I get special run or Colt barrels for my builds.

Until the rear takedown lug issue is resolved, I won't buy an RRA lower receiver unless I can test fit the intended upper receiver into the lower.  I'd never buy one sight unseen.  I'm not filing and pounding new parts to make them fit.  That's nonsense.

Quoted: Many are excessively tight in the rear take down lug area, requiring a file and rubber mallet for upper receiver installation.  It'll shoot out and loosen up, but since there's no real benefit, it shouldn't be this way in the first place.

So what exactly needs filed and/or fitted?  Are the lugs too long (vertically) on the upper?

I noticed my latest build using a CMT upper is an extremely tight fit on my RRA lower.  But I never really gave it much thought other than just wondering what was "larger" than normal.

Thanks for the insight Mongo.

so ,RRA outta the box =good to go .?

Quoted: Quoted: Many are excessively tight in the rear take down lug area, requiring a file and rubber mallet for upper receiver installation.  It'll shoot out and loosen up, but since there's no real benefit, it shouldn't be this way in the first place. So what exactly needs filed and/or fitted?  Are the lugs too long (vertically) on the upper? I noticed my latest build using a CMT upper is an extremely tight fit on my RRA lower.  But I never really gave it much thought other than just wondering what was "larger" than normal. Thanks for the insight Mongo.

This has been posted a bunch of times - I dont have the pics.  Basically, most lowers at the rear takedown pin lug, have a "relief" cut in them where the endmill cuts a slight radius to allow for variances in the rear takedown lug area.  RRA/MCT does not do this cut.  I almost think it is to make a tighter lockup on purpose - as sooooo many people like a snug fit, and this provides one.  When using a CMT upper with a CMT lower - it is hardly ever a problem.  In fact, my RRA upper/lower fit is the loosest I have, second only to my Colt.

That being said - I have tried to mate Bushy and Colt uppers to CMT lowers, and some of them would have taken a good deal of metal removal to get them to fit.  It used to really bother me.... now I have just accepted it.  I still prefer a weapon that fits, without taking a rubber mallet to get it together tho.

Quoted: I've been researching ARs on this site for a couple months, maybe half an hour or an hour a day. I am no expert of any kind, but am in the same boat as BiggyD (who by his profile I assume is a fellow noob and is trying to learn the AR ropes). A brief summary of what I have learned since I was infected with BRD last August: 1. Colt-long, proud history. Been making guns forever and produce a rifle that functions as well as, if not slightly better, any other (though if they are better is always a constant and irritating debate). However, many reports of crappy customer service and a certain blatant dislike for civies (no experience with this myself). Also, in terms of fit and finish, many reports of super crabby cosmetic work. Tool marks, scratches, and the like staright from the factory on at least a certain number of new guns. I started a thread maybe 10 days ago and was really surprised at the responses I got http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=260375  I have decided not to go with Colt because of this, as I believe fit and finish should be there for a $1300 rifle. Call me a fag, I know it's a tool, etc. etc. Again, I am not in anyway debating the reliability of what are clearly proven rifles. 2. Bushmaster-Colt clone in many ways, minus barrel twist (1/9 instead of 1/7), buffer tube and some factory QC tests. Decent fit and finish, but many reports of poor factory QC.....countless reports of canted sights, and of people saying they had to send a rifle back to the factory. However, from what I have read they have awesome customer service and will fix a problem if there is one. Despite any issues, it seems there are many happy customers. Lots variety in what models are offered. 3. Rock River Arms-been getting more interested in these guys lately. Non Mil Spec lowers seem to concern some people. From what I have heard they have outstanding fit and finish. Their barrels are 4140 (I believe) instead of 4150 and this seems to worry some people too. Also, chrome lining is an option and is not standard. Customer service is supposed to be good and in honesty it seems there are few real complaints about RRA. Most owners seem to be very pleased all around. I will most likely go with an RRA for my first AR, for me it seems the best fit. 4.Armalite-haven't read much about them for some reason, so I won't go into it much. Some people seem really pleased, others seem to think they are over priced. But they've stayed in business this long so I'm sure they aren't screwing people. Again, someone better informed can deal with this one. Anyway, that abouts sums up where I'm at with research. Hope I'm on the ball. In truth I'm sure any of the major names produce a perfectly reliable, high quality AR, which will serve most of us for many years. Just know what it is you want out of your rifle and then just keep reading posts on this site....you'll figure it out.

I think this is pretty well said... for factory rifles.

For parts... you could draw other conclusions.

Bushmaster,Colt, Both are the Best PERIOD!! Then RRA,Armalite!

I would feel well protected with Colt LE or Bushmaster!

Im running into alot of Cash!

I bought my First AR15 COLT back in 86!

And 2 bushmasters in 98!

Im haveing a Very hard time pick wich  to buy next?

6920 or Bushmasters M4 14.5 wth Phantom? I would rather have a 14.5 than the 16 inch PLUS Bird cage. Makes it almost 18inches

Quoted: so ,RRA outta the box =good to go .?

YES! perfect reliability with mine and no fancy glossy untactical finish (i hate that on an AR)
Sure, it's easier to clean but it's also easier to see when/if the SHTF.


my .02

Hesse
ASA
............

Quoted: so ,RRA outta the box =good to go .?

Spend an hour or two and read every post you can find. Really research. And see if you can find even one RRA customer who really dislikes their rifle, truly has an issue I mean. What sold me in the end is that, other then the "non mil spec" and "tight fitting lowers" complaints, I couldn't find anyone who was really pissed about the gun they recieved from the factory. Nobody with a canted front sight, nobody mad about tool marks or whatever. Now I'm sure RRA has lemons, it would be stupid to believe otherwise. But clearly they are pleasing the great majority. Anyway, all the rifles you're looking at will go BOOM when you pull the trigger, so if that is your priority get the most affordable one (which is RRA anyway) and spend the rest on mags and ammo.

Who are all these people having trouble with their Bushmasters, RRA's, and Armalites? You doing underwater bump-firing with them or something? And what kind of ninny would be worried about buying any of those brands? They are all top notch, and they all have EXCELLENT warranty services for the VERY RARE occasion that you need to use one. The Bushmaster that I bought three years ago was flawless, and has continued to be so ever since. I chose it because it was way cheaper than the Colts at the time, had 4150 barrel steel, came chrome-lined standard, and I wanted to help them pay their legal bills after the DC Sniper deal. When I get ready to buy my M-4gery, I'll buy Bushmaster because it's what I know and I stick to what I know and trust. But the fact is, I'd have NO problems recommending or buying RRA, Armalite, or even Model 1 Sales AR's if I couldn't go with a Bushy. It's like the PC-world really... I go Gateway, but it doesn't really matter if the thing says Dell, HP, or Compaq on it either. Or Ford, Chevy or GM. They're ALL good. I only refrain from mentioning Colt because I've run into too many "Colt is perfect, everything else sucks" cultists here and I despise Colt's stand on selling their products to civilians (and I hate the fact that they've been coasting for decades with their 1911's while getting blown into the weeds by Kimber, Springfield, etc).

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: that poor poor horse Horse?  That is a donkey...  a.k.a.  "ass"...

Hehe I assumed it was a horse for "Beating a Dead Horse".  

Honestly, if you stay with the "big 5" (Bushmaster, Colt, Armalite, DPMS, RRA), you shouldn't go wrong.

(Oly would probably be OK, as well, but SEEM to be more hit-and-miss)

I'd get whichever you can find easier and get the best deal on locally.  

Quoted: Quoted: Bushmaster,Colt, Both are the Best PERIOD!! Then RRA,Armalite! This whole discussion is funny when you learn a little more about who really makes all the receivers... For instance, CMT is making, or has made receivers for Clot, RRA, Bushmaster and Stag amoung many others. That's why it's funny to me that the FMJ placed RRA behind Bushmaster and Clot. This is not to say that they are all the same because each company specifies how the parts are to be made and RRA surely screwed up when they tried to 'tighten up' the fit at the rear. I have had a recent manufacture Clot upper and a CMT upper in my hands where I could see the exact same CNC programming errors and toolmarks in both parts, at least enough to convince me that they came off of the same machines. Little bit of trivia... Bushmaster lower receivers have come from CMT, LMT and been made in-house. The first characters of the serial number tell the story: L: LMT C: CMT BFI: In-House Having said all that, each company still controls their own QC and that's really where it's at. Good parts can still be poorly assembled, but no amount of good assembly is going to make bad parts work good. You gotta have both the good parts and the good assembly. This whole "What brand is better" is like asking what's better, a Buick, a Pontiac or a Chevy...

I'm still leaning towards Armalite ...got any facts ,trivia,concerns,or personal experience?

Knights Armament
Colt
Armalite

all other colt/armalite wannabees

/runs away from thread/