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Posted: 12/26/2003 12:29:05 PM EDT
I wish i could strangle the prick at colt that thought of the big hole pivot pin. Does anyone offer any service to fill it in then re-drill a standard size pivot pin hole?
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 1:41:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 3:05:07 PM EDT
Using the adapters suck. Maybe i'll find a nice pre-ban bushy to trade for. Or an FAL..
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 3:40:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2003 3:41:38 PM EDT by JustL00king]
The offset pin dose suck, you tip the upper forward and you cant close it again without taking the offset pin out or turning it with a flathead. I would just sell the SP1 and buy four postban lowers, the bans going to sunset.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 4:37:08 PM EDT
Blame the BATF for the large pin upper-don't blame Colt. As far as using adapters I've had good luck using [url=http://store.yahoo.com/cdnn/arunfronconp.html]this one[/url] as opposed to the other style. Supposedly a decent AR smith can fill the hole with JB weld and redrill it-but since the adapter pins work for me I haven't tried it.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 5:22:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 5:45:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2003 5:46:10 PM EDT by Lazyshooter]
Colt has done some stupid things over the last few years and this (the hole size), was one of the dumbest.
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 6:37:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2003 2:14:59 AM EDT by CJan_NH]
Originally Posted By Troy:
Originally Posted By CJan_NH: Blame the BATF for the large pin upper-don't blame Colt.
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BATF had NOTHING to do with Colt using a larger pivot pin hole on their civilian ARs. That decision was 100% Colt's. -Troy
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Uh, not according to Colt [rolleyes] Perhaps you should call and see for yourself: 1-800-962-COLT. I did, after wading through a torrent of Internet hearsay I decided to get it straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. While we're all here, I was wondering if you could change an error in the comparison chart [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=176349]here[/url] The chart indicates a one year warranty for Colt. This came as quite a surprise to Colt, who gives the details of their lifetime service agreement [url=http://www.colt.com/CMCI/lifetime_agreement.asp]here[/url] Thanks in advance [:)]
Link Posted: 12/26/2003 7:31:21 PM EDT
http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/lowers/oak-01.asp Why don't you get one of these and try it? I have a Colt Sporter II reg. rec. with 4 different uppers for it and can change from one upper to another as fast as you can with a Bushmaster(provided all your uppers are also big hole Colt)
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 5:53:03 AM EDT
That's the problem, the only big hole upper i have is the a1 upper with the pencil barrel. Just need to find a good trade at the next fun show :)
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 5:59:05 AM EDT
Officially hi-jacked now, so, "sorry". But, the alterations performed to Colt's AR was their "option" no ATF ruling forced them to change over, and alter the specs of M16s and AR15s, as in the Thompsons. However, I would not doubt that much political pressure from the same gov't that issues them their large and lucrative contracts, pressured them, and/or made it perfectly clear, they'd be made happier, if Colt were to "voluntarily" change the specs. No other Gov't contractor makes spec guns for the civilian population, and Bushmaster no longer has a contract of any size.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 7:29:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2003 7:30:38 AM EDT by jimtash9]
I actually like the big front SP-1 lower. Sure it takes maybe a minute to unscrew it if I want to seperate the halves, but that usually only happens at home when I am cleaning it. So what's the big deal? And if the ATF ordered Colt to install it in there weapons, then I guess the sear block was the ATFs idea also. That's why the other manufacturers also have it installed in their lowers, right?
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 7:50:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2003 7:51:47 AM EDT by SanchoPanza]
Large hole slab sided uppers can use a self contained push-pin, with a ball detent. Got one from J&T. Not a perfect solution, but it beats 2 screws! Don't throw away the 2 screws, as the self contained push-pin isn't captive, so can be lost. The best solution is to trade the rifle for a pre-ban Busmaster or small hole Colt.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 8:19:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SanchoPanza: Large hole slab sided uppers can use a self contained push-pin, with a ball detent. Got one from J&T. Not a perfect solution, but it beats 2 screws! Don't throw away the 2 screws, as the self contained push-pin isn't captive, so can be lost. The best solution is to trade the rifle for a pre-ban Busmaster or small hole Colt.
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I wonder if you could tap in a solid pin, then drill it out with the correct size hole.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 8:40:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By _DR:
Originally Posted By SanchoPanza: Large hole slab sided uppers can use a self contained push-pin, with a ball detent. Got one from J&T. Not a perfect solution, but it beats 2 screws! Don't throw away the 2 screws, as the self contained push-pin isn't captive, so can be lost. The best solution is to trade the rifle for a pre-ban Busmaster or small hole Colt.
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I wonder if you could tap in a solid pin, then drill it out with the correct size hole.
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I think that just might work! Then you could cut the head off, remove the ball, and use lock tight to keep it in place. But, the std size push-pin would then not be captive.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 9:36:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2003 1:16:54 PM EDT by CJan_NH]
Originally Posted By SULACO2: Officially hi-jacked now, so, "sorry". I would not doubt that much political pressure from the same gov't that issues them their large and lucrative contracts, pressured them, and/or made it perfectly clear, they'd be made happier, if Colt were to "voluntarily" change the specs.
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There is nothing "voluntary" about it, when you are told to toe the line or lose your DOD contract. This is akin to your boss saying that if you would like a paycheck next week you need to work your day off, and then saying that you came in "voluntarily" to work...
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 10:09:19 AM EDT
Depending on what lower you have I have other pre-bans that I would trade for yours. Thanks Cruizer
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 11:37:31 AM EDT
"I wonder if you could tap in a solid pin, then drill it out with the correct size hole." Yes you can. I put a Colt large hole upper on an Eagle small hole lower that way. Pressed a .0015 oversized aluminum plug in the Colt and used a 4 flute center cutting .250 mill to drill the hole. The hole has to be drilled off center verticaly. Proper placement of the hole will require that almost all of the plug be removed where it contacts the 12 o'clock area of the upper when viewed from the side. Probably not a job for hand tools if ya want an excellent fit.
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 4:57:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2003 4:58:16 PM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 12/27/2003 5:34:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2003 5:38:34 PM EDT by AKM]
Keep in mind that when Colt brought the AR15 to the civilian market in 1964, you could still buy guns mail-order and you could still pay your $200 and convert any gun into a machinegun. ATF at that time was little more than what it was originally INTENDED to be, which was a tax collection agency.
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You just answered the question with out even realizing it! In 1964 $200 was much more substantial to the average Joe, and the laws much more relaxed and easy to get buy then today. Hence the .315 pin (to discourage M-16 uppers on AR-15's).
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 11:56:19 AM EDT
[img]http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/uppers/aruppercomparison.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 1:04:34 PM EDT
Hence the .315 pin (to discourage M-16 uppers on AR-15's).
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What would you say is the difference between a M-16 upper and a AR upper? cruizer
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 1:26:36 PM EDT
I'm not sure on Colt's reasoning for not wanting M16 uppers to be used on civilian AR-15 rifles, but that it the sole reason for going with the large-hole pivot. Also, I concur with you that there really is no difference between the uppers. I feel that Colt's switching to larger firecontrol pins served a far greater purpose than did the large pivot pins. They precluded the use of M16 firecontrols in civilian rifles (unless the firecontrols were modified by drilling them out.)
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 1:27:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2003 1:29:48 PM EDT by _DR]
olephart, did you thread the plug or just press it? Seems like the obvious solution, if one has the skills/tools IMO.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 4:44:33 PM EDT
I have a Sporter II > I dont change out upers on it at all. It has a M4 upper on it. I went to shoot it at the range and the pin unscrewed and fell out then I said well Loctite blue will fix your ass. HEHE [kill]
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 5:17:00 PM EDT
_DR, "Pressed in" may be over stating the fit. I didn't need to use a press - just slightly tapered one end and tapped it in with a hammer. It can be easily removed with a hammer and punch. I did it because I had 2 problems with the commercial bushings. They made the upper ride a little too high and I didn't care for the resulting crack between the upper and lower. They also are a loose fit and can rotate. Since they only approximate correct operation when the thin wall is at 12 o'clock, I was concerned with possible damage. Some epoxy could cure that problem, though. To actually get everything working correctly, the pin must touch the upper. That means the bushing has to be open for part of it's circumference. Think about a round horse shoe.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 5:52:04 PM EDT
Olephart, I did just the opposite, I was trying to fit my BM upper to my Colt lower. I used some brass stock that I had laying around. I had some 2" round stock aluminum, I would have been at the lathe all night trying to cut it down to .352. I also hate the large hole upper. I cut the brass down and fitted them in the holes. Placed the upper on the lower and used a center punch to mark the location of the small pivot pin hole. I them placed the brass bushing in my mill vise , and used a 1/4" drill bit to drill out the holes for the pivot pin. A boring bar might have worked better. My next project is to make a pivot pin with a detent ball on the end so it sits against the bushing and not the receiver. Not quite sure if I can get a ball and spring into a .250 pin. Not much room to work with there.
Link Posted: 12/28/2003 6:42:52 PM EDT
gsp, Sounds good, so far. Making an elegant pin is going to be challenging. Take a look at a quick release pin and see if it will work or maybe give you some ideas. You can see one by going to mscdirectdotcom and searching for msc# 89816805. There is always the big wad of duct tape - works every time. he he.
Link Posted: 1/1/2004 4:59:04 PM EDT
There is hope. I have a Colt Large hole upper and there is two things that you can do. First you can spend $300 and buy a new reciever from colt and have your serial number put on the new one. This can be done ATF sent me a lettert saying this. Or you can call Daniel Defense and order a a2 or a3 upper for $225
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