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Posted: 4/14/2003 5:38:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/14/2003 5:42:47 PM EDT by Doggonit]
I saw a ZM LR-300 SRF for sale in Impact Guns. I wondered if this neat looking rifle was really up to it? Is the gas system that spectacular? Is it on the level of the AR180 system? Is it worth $1800+ for a plain 16.25" barreled rifle with a weird grip and FN style stock, crowned barrel, etc?

Is it more accurate that your average AR? IS the 5-position forward grip inculded with the gun or is that an optional accesory that cost extra? I am really starting for fall for it.

How come few people have them? Did they stop making them or something?

Anyone have pics???

Doggonit (I luv LR-300 SRF!!!)

Edited to add: it is so expensive that I could buy a KAC AR15 w/ a URX when it becomes available and have money to spare for an Aimpoint, so it is really that good?

BTW: Is the trigger a crisp single stage or a equally crisp (but annoying) double stage?
Link Posted: 4/14/2003 7:29:01 PM EDT
I have the pre-ban set up,with a 5 postion slider/folder stock. The gun shoots great As far as the gas system goes it seems to run cleaner.Accuracy is pretty good I get 1 1/2 moa off bench with a reflex II and ss109.If you can set it up pre-ban then it's wourth it. I wouldn't go that way on a post ban. Cost... well I just spend 1300 on a ARMS SIR/14 .5 inch fluted barreled set up and will get the new MSS stock soon so..... I'm not good with cost over runs
Link Posted: 4/14/2003 9:43:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/14/2003 10:00:09 PM EDT by Duffy]
I keep thinking about selling mine, it's an older model with fixed front sight, 14.5" barrel with a Vortex suppressor [:)] [img]www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid43/p5f2252cf3bf329890a6cd5007a16fb98/fce91855.jpg[/img] The stock is based on the FN but it's much heavier (not sure if it's worth the weight, it's not THAT much more sturdy) It's accurate but heavy. The folks here, especially the pros like 3rdk have pointed out that it can't do sustained fire due to its handguards' poor cooling abilities, that combined with its weight and some non standard AR/M16 parts probably make it a poor infantry weapon. I got it because I love real folding stocks (not just retractable, but actual folding ones), in time I've come to realize it's really of limited benefits, that aspect of the rifle is great only when it's stowed (see above pic for length comparison). As to it running cleaner, the gas still gets blown on the bolt, only difference being the gas tube is attached to the bolt carrier. It's not like the AR180, the AR18 isn't particularly ergonomic (reciprocating right hand biased charging handle, goofy mag release, thin stock and butt pad). The ZM has all the nice user friendly controls. If you're familiar with an AR, the ZM externally operates the same way. Take down and field stripping is different of course. [img]www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid46/pb3d94051c8aa31b70e54ef1ee32a4cce/fccd23d9.jpg[/img] [img]www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid46/p44ebf3a4019d6487df63f5e7ecf3a787/fccd23db.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 4/15/2003 3:06:22 AM EDT
:( I was hoping that this rifle is something magical.... Oh well.... Bushmaster light weight barrel, A1 stock, and LMT rear sight it is again... Doggonit
Link Posted: 4/15/2003 11:46:43 AM EDT
My thoughts on the ZM so far. I just picked up a preban ZM LR 300. Thanks Duffy for all of your help. I did not get a chance to shoot it because I had to send it back to get the barrel reindexed. the front sight was canted (no big deal). The workmanship on this weapon is very nice. The all steel stock is very beefy and heavy. I was a little disappointed with the gas system because (like Duffy said, it does feed gas into the bolt). I do think the system will be a little cleaner than a regular AR system because the gases don't get fed directing into the upper like a standard gas tube. When I get mine back I'm going to try a little test. I'm not going to clean the bolt and I will see how long it will go without a failure. Overall I am very happy with it. It is very unique and is a nice taste of something a little different than the standard AR. I would say not magical, but pretty cool. Duffy, when you say it can't hold up to sustained fire do you mean the handguard will heat up to fast or won't allow the barrel to cool well enough. Lately I've been curious to learn how a SIR handguard would work with the ZM upper???
Link Posted: 4/15/2003 2:07:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2003 8:25:27 PM EDT by Duffy]
Ridge, I think you'll be happy with it, there'll be many folks asking you what it is and lots of jealous onlookers [:)] Two years ago I think Alan Zita was talking about making a RAS type handguard for the ZM, not sure if there's enough demand. Also with the optional ARMS top rail that covers the entire upper receiver, and the tri-mount, I think it's got the rails department pretty well covered. 3rdtk had said it'd have heat disipation problems, though it never occured to me before I think he's right. There are only like 10 small venting holes, compared to the RAS and SIR, it's indeed very limited in terms of cooling capacities. I've never fired enough rounds through it to bear it out, but I know enough to respect and listen to a pro's opinion without trying to find out the hard way myself [:)]
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 8:55:52 AM EDT
Pardon the interruption, as I don't mean to hijack this thread. There "was" a ZM LR300 preban on Ebay with what looks to be a TA01 ACOG for $1400. I thought this was a good deal, I just HATE buying used weapons, sight unseen. BLURRY photos don't help either. I'll let you know if this is a sucker deal or not. -William
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 12:24:53 PM EDT
You know it sounds too good to be true, why would anyone in the right mind sell a ZM+TA01NSN combo for so little, other than (hopefully) the seller's ignorance? I will have no problem buying this from a fellow ar15.com member, but then a fellow ar15.com member would know better [;)]
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 8:25:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2003 8:27:30 PM EDT by Duffy]
Will, On a few occasions I've said I'm thinking about selling mine, the only reasons I haven't done so already are because I don't need the money, it's one of a kind (sort of), and I'll be sorry afterwards. First the attractions: True folding stock Accurate It's a head turner bebecause it's relatively rare. Uses many easy to find AR parts (fire control group, grip, bolt (not bolt carrier or charging handle), and on newer models, AR iron sights. Now the shortcomings: Heavy. It's mostly attributed to the heavy folding stock. Gas still blows directly onto the bolt (if that's considered a problem). Uses some propriety parts from a relatively small company, such as bolt carrier, return spring and the small semi-circular spring detention ring. If you have a full auto lower, it needs to have the sear holes drilled elsewhere, as the bolt carrier doesn't trip a regular M16 auto sear. Many new developement and advances made for the AR will not work, such as RAS, SIR, etc. Possible heat dissipation issues. It has 5 venting holes on each side of the handguard, small ones at that. Expensive. You could get a RAS II, SIR equipped upper receiver for much less and it will be more versatile than a ZM upper, I think even an SPR upper will cost less. If you can get the ZM/TA01 combo for that price it's worth it to play with it, and later on if you don't like it you can sell the upper for the same price and keep the ACOG [:d]
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 6:02:22 AM EDT
Doggonit, I don't mean to hi-jack this thread, but it appears I am doing a pretty good job of it! At least it all is consolidated... Duffy, I am on pins & needles awaiting the delivery of this upper and ACOG. I am hoping that it isn't some "airsofter" (don't mean to offend) crap that does me NO GOOD. I have emailed the owner several times and "SHE" has only replied back that a friend of her brothers (No receipt or ANY papers) is selling it and it only has 400 rounds through it. Of course my next big worry (assuming it's all legitimate) is getting it checked out by a competent gunsmith in the Salt Lake City area. Either that or sending it back to ZM to get it checked out. I have emailed ZM requesting to purchase an owners manual and recomendations for my area for a competent gunsmith. The woman who is selling the upper also states that the ACOG is a TA01 (Not NSN) and has orange glowing lines. She also says that the receiver has minor surface wear, but, that the factory night Iron sights are getting dim!(?) That shouldn't happen for TEN years as far as I know! Well, if anyone who is familiar with this weapon system has ANY input on deficiencies to check for on the weapon itself, I surely would appreciate your input. Thanks for your time! -William
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 1:31:23 PM EDT
Will, The TA01 has red full line tritium reticle, the TA01NSN has amber and that's as close to orange as it gets. You're also correct on the 10 year thing, I think the seller is just clueless, but her attempt at being honest in her assessment is nice nevertheless, she may think the sights should glow like certain wrist watches. They don't. The tritium vials on my ZM are as bright as the new Trijicon night sights I got last week. As long as you have recourse, if it's not what everything the seller says it is, you're at least covered. Well let me know if you wanna sell the TA01 [:d]
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 2:03:17 PM EDT
The following is true: "There's nothing that great about the ZM weapons gun" [b]Only if you don't need a small gun[/b] I wouldn't buy if it wasn't an SBR. The ZM is one of the only 2 guns on the market that will eliminate the need for a buffer tube and for M16 owners it is the only conversion that will eliminate the tube and retain select fire operation. This means a gun that is about 3.5inches minimum shorter than a folding ar-15 with pistol tube IE the OA 96 in select fire.
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 5:01:48 PM EDT
In addition to the ZM, you might want to consider a Robinson Arms, M-96. Similar concept and very robust.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 9:11:30 AM EDT
From what I've read, the ZM guns really shine in full auto. They have ver little muzzle rise and a high cyclic rate. I have a video of a guy firing a full mag from one and the muzzle doesnt apper to rise at all.
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 2:36:08 PM EDT
What do you mean worth it? Gun owning is a $$$$$$$ sport, yes I said sport. If it is too hot in the "cool" kitchen, go play in the dinette. GG
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 2:47:02 PM EDT
here is the link to that auction, somebody got a good deal. [url]http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3607841715&category=31709[/url]
Link Posted: 5/15/2003 8:50:35 PM EDT
Yep, that "quick draw" on Ebay was me! HOWEVER. I hope & pray it isn't AIRSOFTER CRAP! I haven't received the upper & ACOG as of yet. The lady that is selling this said she was INUNDATED with Emails asking for clarifications and specifics and she only chose to answer the high bidder. She stated that the upper only has about 400 rounds through it. I emailed Al at ZM and he said he would re-inspect it free of charge and throw in a new manual to boot. I have to pay for the shipping! SWEEET! If anyone is interested in some info from ZM I have a VHS video tape that they made. It is VERY controllable in the video. I believe they shoot 55 grain & 62 grain through it. The only other RIFLE I have seen that controllable was the G36. Then again my experience is limited somewhat. Not trying to push any buttons here, but I don't care for the M96. Test fire one first, if you can. There is no bolt release like an AR, you have to re-jerk the handle rear wards when you change mags. I was lucky to have a range nearby that rents out alot of AW's. If they had more options for the stock, like that skeleton tube by ARFX (or something...) would be nice. Or even different muzzle brakes.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 2:22:03 PM EDT
"IT" came in the mail today! I took my accesorized BM upper off my pre-ban Colt lower to put this baby on! Ooooowww It does feel nice! It isn't "Airsofter crap" that I feared some one was passing off as a real rifle after all! The TA01NSN is nice too! It doesn't have those silly iron sights on top of it either! Initial observations: the folding buttstock is nice, but a bit longer than what I am used to. I wonder if KURT (KKF) can cut that down so that it would be an acceptable LOP with armor on? The buttstock also appears to be made from aluminum or non-magnetized alloy. Cheek weld is uncomfortable as the bare metal stock tube is approx. .565 inches (13mm) in diameter. There isn't much to be done about that without interfering with the folding to the side ability. The rifle is definately front heavy. Guess that is why it can be so controllable in FA. Wish I could shoot it, but, back in the box it goes. Off to the either the ZM factory to have it checked out or Kurts Kustom Firearms for some mods... ZM Weapons LR300 + Trijicon TA01NSN = $ SWEET DEAL!
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 3:02:33 PM EDT
That was a sweet deal! Glad to hear it!
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 3:05:33 PM EDT
You can get ZM's adjustable folding stock (and throw Allan some business for checking out your kit for free), or take off the heavy metal one off and put a Colt M4 telestock on it. Ace makes a folding stock too, it's much lighter and comfortable. I had one but sold it because the extension tube wasn't long enough, if I could make it work I'd swap out the clunky heavy ZM unit in a heart beat.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 3:19:08 PM EDT
It also looks like you have the removable front sight that is a major BONUS. When you send it to Allan get the new 2nd gen front sight for it. This will allow you to use any detachable AR15 rear sight and not just the ZM unit. I remember a while back someone on this forum talking about selling there ZM gun but something was screwy with the lower so he decided to have his sister(or someone like that) sell it (just the kit) for him on ebay. This must have been the one. I've been checking ebay ever since then an never found it. YOU lucky DOG. Course I didn't do too bad on mine either so I'm happy and happy for you (but an ACOG would have been nice, aaargh).
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:36:55 PM EDT
Ridge, That sounds like the deal that the lady related to me, that the guy didn't want it anymore (bill problems...?) and needed money fast so she sold it for him on Ebay. Maybe he had a postban lower and couldn't afford a PREBAN? I dunno, but, despite the temptation to shoot it, I AM NOT! Not before Alan or Kurt takes a looksie into it. Doesn't show any excessive wear or damage in the receiver and the barrel looks great. I would take it apart, but, without a manual, I'd rather let a PRO do it and send me the manual. Duffy, there is a good idea, I could put my VLtor stock & tube back on and I could carry extra "D" size batteries in the buffer tube! OK/OK more likely "C" sized batteries! I don't mean to sound too nutty, but, I wish a rail system fit on it! All these cool rails and I can only put a little tri-rail on it! C'mon, a Leupy CQT has more surface area to mount on! I can't get rid of all the JUNK I tote on my RAS! I must have "RAIL ENVY" or something! Maybe I can get the guys in the machine shop to do a little job, real hush-hush, classified TS/CNWDI, yeah...Hmmmmm...
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:51:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 5:52:38 AM EDT by Duffy]
But Will, you might be able to put an ARMS rail on it. Yours looks like mine with a fixed front sight. If Alan or Kurt can take it off and put the new detachable one on it (I think it uses a Pic base) then the ARMS full length rail is but an option, it's quite impossible with a fixed front sight though as one of the throw levers fastens on the front sight's Pic rail. [img]zmweapons.com/Lg_images/Rail_.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 7:49:53 AM EDT
Duffy, Thank you! That looks like some crazy Science Fiction rifle! Do you have that collapsing & folding stock? I heard from Allan that some "evaluators" in the mountains of Afghan-land didn't like the fact that their beard hair would get pinched in some of the cracks. That is the only negative comment I have heard about it. Have you heard anything? Thanks again for the info! -William
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 7:58:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 8:07:12 AM EDT by William_lxix]
Duffy, I just looked again and my upper has the removable picatinny (?) style front post. What other mod's have you seen or suggest? Thanks again for the help. Doggonit, since I have managed to hi-jack your thread, Which I really don't wish any ill feelings, you did mention the AR-180 and I noticed over in EE that a dealer is selling the NEW (AR-180B) for $650 delivered, that is a pretty nice price on an AR similar system, IMHO. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=165152&w=searchPop {Edited to add Doggonit comments}
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 8:21:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Duffy: But Will, you might be able to put an ARMS rail on it. Yours looks like mine with a fixed front sight. If Alan or Kurt can take it off and put the new detachable one on it (I think it uses a Pic base) then the ARMS full length rail is but an option, it's quite impossible with a fixed front sight though as one of the throw levers fastens on the front sight's Pic rail. [url]zmweapons.com/Lg_images/Rail_.jpg[/url]
View Quote
That's a cool looking rail, Duffy. I poked around ZM's sight, but I didn't see a description anywhere. It looks like a custom job just for a ZM gun? I say that because the ZM front sight mount is considerably higher than the rail on a normal pic gas block. Where would someone buy something like that?
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 8:22:12 AM EDT
definately get the higher front sight post and an normal/flipup rear sight, at least. Hey Duffy, do you think the ZM upper would shoot okay with a regular ar15 stock or would you have to put a dowel and bumper in there so the bolt will stop before completely compressing the spring?? To be honest, mine has the tri-rail and foregrip and I can't think of any other reason for more rails (the top rail would be useful for night vision and IR lasers, but that's out of my league).
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 9:22:11 AM EDT
Will: Post some pics if you havent sent it off yet!
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 10:36:06 AM EDT
GI joe makes a replica with the arms rail and every thing and that one is only about $ 15.00
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 10:52:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By thirddegree: GI joe makes a replica with the arms rail and every thing and that one is only about $ 15.00
View Quote
Schweeet! Does it have a 5.56 or .223 chamber? I'm getting one!
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 11:08:06 AM EDT
3rd-degree - I GOT THAT FOR MY SON! (8 y.o.) Only trouble I had with that, was it is an accesory for grown up collectors (I thought that was what the actual ZM was for!?) and it needed to be glued together. Stock didn't fold, you just pulled off the other extended stock and then put on the one that is folded. It had some REAL SPACE-MAN-SPIFF parts in that kit! Of course, now he has lost most of them! Check out Ebay for a good price on those too! MAHABLI - I'm working on pics for INSURANCE purposes before mailing off, I will post when I get done!
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 1:10:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 1:13:33 PM EDT by Duffy]
Will, Lucky you, mine has the fixed front sight [brick] With the custom ARMS mount (I agree it's most likely an ARMS custom job) your options are wide open. Most lights and lasers are mounted forward on top, right or left, so you got them covered [:)] I don't like ZM's front grip, or ARMS throw lever grip, KAC's grip is easier to hold but without a bottom rail (trimount is only up front), I guess you could drill and screw a piece of Pic rail on the bottom of the handguard. I've shouldered the adjustable folding stock a few times, for me it's not worth the extra cost because I don't have a short eye relief scope like the TA01 on it (I use the ELCAN on mine), but even then if you can move the TA01 all the way back it should be ok. I never put an M4 stock on mine so I don't know if it's functionally sound (sorry for mouthing off about this earlier) to do so, I don't think the buffer is necessary, Alan will be able to tell us for sure. I think in the event it does want a buffer to absorb the shock or relief the stress, an M4 buffer and buffer spring should do the job, basically a standard M4 lower mated (with no parts taken out) to the ZM upper.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 3:40:18 PM EDT
Thanks for the info... I am actually considering sending it off to KURT (KKF) for inspection and have him shorten the barrel to 14.5 and perm. attach the Phantom. Maybe...I dunno... Duffy, your's looks like a 14.5 bbl, how do you like the mod? Anybody else PLEASE give me your thoughts, as I DON'T want to chop and then regret it later. I'd hate to price/replace a ZM factory bbl...! $$$ I am also thinking about chopping that handguard up for ventilation and rigging a mounting for a vert grip. Wonder how much a replacement is first...not likely cheap...? $$$ I had a serious PITA problem mounting the LR300 to my COLT lower (Pre-ban Sporter Target) as the REAR pin DID NOT want to match up!? I would assemble it without anything in the large hole front, thinking that I had a binding problem, but twas not the case. Then I shot the helical spring for the take down pin detent across the room (about the tenth time) and decided to assemble it for pic's without the spring and it went together like a champ!? What the hell is up with that? The channel on the take down pin was aligned with the detent, I can't figure it? Anybody had this similar problem? Or am I making one of those MELON-HEAD mistakes and just not catching it? Frustration! Maybe I'll just put this in the back of gun safe and play with my son & his GI Joe's with the LR300 guns! Definately cheaper!
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 4:50:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/23/2003 9:54:20 AM EDT by Ridge]
I can't offer much help. but a new 16 in ZM barrel is $365.00. Oh, and if you perm attach a FH you will never get the Handguards Off or the barrel unless you chop off the FH. Does the 16" look goofy? Mine has an 11.5 inch and I was going to put a 16 on (for better velocities), but I think I'm having second thoughts. Maybe I'll just replace my SBR with the ZM, it does look cool with that short barrel, but I was hoping to maximize the accuracy potential of the ZM, hmmm. I had no assembly problems at all, that's wierd. [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p1f962209cfb32740d3475140903d2b3a/fc1795ed.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 6:01:35 PM EDT
Will, mine is an older model with 14.5" barrel and Vortex and it came that way, as to it being permanently fixed, I have no comment [;)] Let's just say I was shocked. I have had no problem installing the ZM on either my Colt or Olympic lower. I once had problem putting a 9mm upper on the Colt lower, as it turned out I needed a 9mm hammer, stupid me.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 10:40:58 AM EDT
Ridge - The 16" bbl doesn't look too goofy, not considering I wouldn't be able to get the handguards off. With the 16" bbl it looks more "FAL" than anything. $365!! And I thought COLT was expensive! Sheesh! I have a ignorant question for you Ridge: What does it take to get an SBR? Just curious, If there is a thread out there LMK. Thanks! Duffy - KURT (KKF) emailed me back asking about the ARMS flattop rail, he thinks it's an ARMS exclusive, limited thing. He also asked if ZM was still in business...(?) I don't know what it is about putting that on my lower...Maybe that is why the guy got rid of it, couldn't field strip it without a VISE and NYLON HAMMER! I'll do some measurements with my mic and calipers. Hey somebody is selling there ZM in EE!! There you go Doggonit! http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=167085 I am trying to get pic's up, but the batteries are dead, and my bud has the power cord. Doesn't look like it's goiing to happen till after the holiday. Thanks everybody!
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 11:51:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2003 10:40:43 AM EDT by Ridge]
I wouldn't feel too put out. For <$1000.00 for the kit you have some room to work. Yes everything with ZM is very expensive. I wonder if Allan is a one man business. I was going to order a brand new kit from him, and he said the wait would be >10 months (lucky I found a preowned one). I think he's got a great product. I think if he could turn out products in higher volume the prices would go down, Alas. It's not too hard to get an SBR if you live in a class III friendly state and have a CLEO (chief law enforcement officer) that is gun friendly. One way to do it is to register your gun as an SBR, you have to go through a Class III dealer, fill out a form 4 etc, get your sheriff or police chief to sign it, send in a check for $200.00 and wait forever for the ATF to approve it. Edit: If anyone is reading through this for more info. The full auto forum is a great place to go. I just learned there is a much easier way to do an SBR that doesn't involve a CIII (my SBR was already registered and I bought it from a CIII dealer and had to do a transfer on a form 4). But if you want to make your own SBR. You fill out a form 1, fingerprints, id photos, CLEO signoff, $200, etc. and send the forms in yourself. No need to go through CIII. Pretty cool I might have to get me another. My next NFA will be a silencer though heehe. end edit. Or if you are in the business you can get a class III license and legally possess any configuration weapon or silencer ($500.00/yr). A good place to start would be the full auto form on this board. Also if you really wanted to do it and it was legal in your state a class III dealer would be able to take you right through the process.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 3:17:08 PM EDT
Will I'd leave the 16" barrel alone, the 14.5" barrel does nothing to improve accuracy or its looks. Didn't I tell ya about the non standard parts? [;)] A proprietary system means the manufacturer can charge anything it wants, and get away with it, what can we do, get these parts from Bushmaster? On the other hand, the manufacturer can have strict and tight quality control and justify the high cost. Also it can do many industrial designs without having to worry about compatibility. All I can think of is Apple Computer vs. the rest of the world. Beautiful machines that have less than 5% of the market, slower and more expensive, but they're something to behold compared to any PC.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 8:19:17 AM EDT
That A.R.M.S. rail you see was specially made. I think Allan may have a couple. Last time I checked he quoted $500.00 or so. On another note, (just looking at the rail pic)...front sight post adjustments may not be possible. If you are dying to extend your rails, Yankee Hill (same people that make the tri-block) sells extensions through Bushmaster. Just keep in mind these are quite heavy and really do nothing except allow mounting hardware further back toward your reciever. [img]http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/scopes/Images/thm-9474.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/bmas/yhm-9474.asp[/url]
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 3:06:01 PM EDT
Modified ACE stock (much better and lighter than standard stock) [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=12684[/img] [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=12685[/img] [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=12687[/img] [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=12688[/img]
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 9:45:36 PM EDT
Alright Theo that is cool, tell us how it was done. Did you just remove the steel part of the stock with drift punch and install the back portion of an ACE stock with existing drift punch???? I like it, I will probably do this. How much lighter would you say it is. thanks for sharing!!
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 9:35:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2003 9:39:40 AM EDT by Theo]
It’s been several years since I did this so I hope I don’t leave anything out. As I remember it the spacing and tube sizes are off to use the standard ACE stock. The ZM stock is removed by knocking out the drift pin. I used the ZM knuckle, which requires two ½” inserts ½” inch apart. I ordered the parts from ACE (back then he only made AK and FAL stocks). I remember it being fairly inexpensive ($50-60) to order the long versions (un-cut) of the upper and lower tubes, the spacer, the rear butt plate, and the butt pad. [url]www.riflestocks.com/html/ace_ltd__products_1.html[/url] Using a tubing cutter, I cut the lower tube where it enters the back plate so that the tubes would be parallel and spaced correctly for the ZM knuckle. With both tubes in the butt plate, I then cut both the fronts of the tubes for the length of pull I wanted. As the inside dia of the tubes for the ACE stock were ½” I then took ½” OD SS 304 tubing and ran it through the upper tube leaving the necessary extra amount to bottom out in the ZM knuckle. I then used a short section of ½” OD SS tubing in the front of the bent tube (lower) and another short section inside the lower tube where it enters the butt plate for reinforcement. Insertion of the tubing requires a bit of force (hammering). I then drilled and tapped a hole through both tubes and inserted a small screw to hold them in place (not that you could remove the inner tubes anyway). The screws are covered up by the spacer which has a hole drilled through it (top to bottom) to provide space for the screw heads. This also keeps the spacer from moving once the stock is installed. The original ACE stock butt plate was held in place with pins. I drilled out these holes through the tubes (from both sides) tapped the holes (through everything) and fixed the tubes in place with Allen head bolts (I relived an area in the butt plate for the bolt heads). I then Teflon/Molly coated the stock, upper receiver, and Tri Mount to match my lower (oven cure Brownells Dark Parkerized Gray). I then assembled the stock in the knuckle, drilled it in place and reinstalled the drift pin to hold it. I had spaced it so that when folded the end of the butt plate was just shy of the hand guards. This meant that I had to relieve the butt plate pad in order for it to fold around the hand guards (easy with a oscillating spindle sander). I spent a total of around $70 (not including Teflon) it took 2-3 Hours of time. I used: tubing cutters, belt sander, drill press, hand drill, taps, spindle sander, and a hammer.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 3:28:03 PM EDT
Now I don't feel stupid, it isn't easy! [BD]
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 9:16:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/11/2003 10:24:06 AM EDT by William_lxix]
OK, fellas, this is my first time trying to post photos, without help... [img]http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/76bf6f85/bc/My+Folder/pre-ban+2.jpg?bcdR35.Ar4XLvQdg[/img] [img]http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/76bf6f85/bc/My+Folder/Pre-Ban.jpg?bcdR35.AfB5p4uu7[/img] I am working with this so bear with me please. Edited to add - Thanks DUFFY! Anyhow, pics are of my BM upper (14.5, perm FH) and the ZM upper which will shortly be going back to ZM when I hear from Allan... My first POSTED PIC'S! Thanks DUFFY! -William Edited to attempt to fix the pics...
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 9:24:52 PM EDT
[img]us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/76bf6f85/bc/My+Folder/pre-ban+2.jpg?bctgZ1.AHYvpvQdg[/img] [img]us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/76bf6f85/bc/My+Folder/Pre-Ban.jpg?bctgZ1.A1xe_4uu7[/img]
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 10:54:12 AM EDT
Theo, How does that length of pull work for you? Seems a little long for me.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 11:26:53 AM EDT
The pics aren't working for me. I want to see it!! Seem to be working for everyone else? BTW, I think this has been the best ZM thread so far. I love it! Never seen one make it to page 2.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 2:24:55 AM EDT
Try the ZM 5 position slide/folder it's expensive but a very cool set up.Going to see about setting it up SBR.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 7:47:56 PM EDT
The 5 position folder is nice. Collapsed all the way gives me the correct length of pull for CQB.
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 8:28:34 AM EDT
Pics arent working dude.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 12:47:13 PM EDT
OK, So I sent my LR300 Upper off to Alan (ZM Weapons) and he checked it out, verified that only about 300 or less rounds put through it. He did note that during disassembly someone had incorrectly reassembled the weapon and deformed the gas tube somewhat making it cycle choppily. He also noticed that the Phantom FH was using a split-ring LOCK washer for retention, he said that that DEINATELY wasn't a factory mod! He repaired these items and is sending it back out with a manual. I CANNOT WAIT! Of course, for the price, it is worth the wait! I would highly recommend contacting ALAN at ZM (413-648-9501 or email ZM@ZMweapons.com) for ANY work done to your LR300's! When I get it in I will post some more pics. I really want to try that buttstock mod, but I checked the ACE website, and the stocks are different than the one THEO built. They seem to have a longer "TOE" on the bottom of the buttpad, instead of the squared off version that THEO posted. I could be wrong... Eagerly awaiting delivery!
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