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Posted: 4/27/2009 5:10:38 PM EDT
We used to have a chart in one of the tacked theads above, but I cant seem to find it.
It listed every AR MFG, along with how the various MFGs stacked up. BBL twist, forged parts, chrome bbls, ect.


IIRC, there were 2 of them. One was much more extensive than the other.
Link Posted: 4/27/2009 5:12:54 PM EDT
it's useless
Link Posted: 4/27/2009 5:27:25 PM EDT




Originally Posted By SBCZILLA:

We used to have a chart in one of the tacked theads above, but I cant seem to find it.

It listed every AR MFG, along with how the various MFGs stacked up. BBL twist, forged parts, chrome bbls, ect.





IIRC, there were 2 of them. One was much more extensive than the other.




http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=862432



Scroll down a bit
Link Posted: 4/27/2009 5:42:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jenkins729:
it's useless


+5.56
Link Posted: 4/27/2009 6:28:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2009 1:26:41 PM EDT by Cold]
The Chart
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&hl=en

REMOVED, links to sties hostile to AR15.com as deemed by staff are not allowed ~Cold

I don't know why everyone around here writes it off.  If you don't know your manufacturers it's a good reference.  Rob S keeps it updated and unbiased IMO.  Earlier versions included individual opinions on the pecking order, but all it is is a list of features, testing and assembly methods.
Link Posted: 4/27/2009 10:22:25 PM EDT
I always thought the same. It's a decent little reference that can be helpful to newbies. People just get butt-hurt when they see their favorite brand towards the bottom (or right, as it may be).
Link Posted: 4/28/2009 5:12:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2009 1:26:52 PM EDT by Cold]
Originally Posted By ridewaves:
The Chart
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&hl=en

The thread
REMOVED, links to sties hostile to AR15.com as deemed by staff are not allowed ~Cold

I don't know why everyone around here writes it off.  If you don't know your manufacturers it's a good reference.  Rob S keeps it updated and unbiased IMO.  Earlier versions included individual opinions on the pecking order, but all it is is a list of features, testing and assembly methods.


Actually, it's a reference for people with varying degrees of OCD.

Tell me what difference it makes,for example, if the barrel assy is parked before or after the FSB is installed?  Answer... none.

Well, unless you are some OCD prick worried about your investment that you never really shoot, but rather look at, fondle, and show off.

Every manufacturer that makes AR's has a failure rate.  Some are better than others, but NONE are scheduled.

Buy a cheapo AR, take the difference and take an Armorer Course.  THEN you can quickly fix your gun when it goes down, instead of asking why your Colt just took a shit on you.
Link Posted: 4/28/2009 5:36:06 AM EDT
That chart isnt accurate.
Whan I got my Stag Arms it came with a bunch of things that that charts said it didnt come with.
So either its done on personal bias or it isnt kept up to date.
Link Posted: 4/28/2009 5:38:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MADMIKE99:

<snip>So either its done on personal bias<snip>


UNPOSSIBLE!

THAT CAME FROM TOS!!!!111!!1!one!!1!!!1won!!(4-3)!!!!

Link Posted: 4/28/2009 5:46:33 AM EDT
Let's see, if you had OCD, that wouldn't make you look at the chart, it would make you keep looking at the chart.... over and over.  I think looking at it occassionally to see what you are getting is fine.  And as for "fixing it when it breaks", maybe some folks are using the weapon in the line of duty... so when their cheap ass AR goes down, I don't think that armorers course is going to be of much help.... can't really restake your gas key while under fire.  Just because you don't like analysis like this doesn't mean everybody who uses it has OCD....
Link Posted: 4/28/2009 5:54:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LX200:
Let's see, if you had OCD, that wouldn't make you look at the chart, it would make you keep looking at the chart.... over and over.  I think looking at it occassionally to see what you are getting is fine.  And as for "fixing it when it breaks", maybe some folks are using the weapon in the line of duty... so when their cheap ass AR goes down, I don't think that armorers course is going to be of much help.... can't really restake your gas key while under fire.  Just because you don't like analysis like this doesn't mean everybody who uses it has OCD....


Actually, it does.

Because if you need to keep referring to a chart some dude on the internet put together to determine if your weapon is good to go, you might have OCD.

If you are knowledgeable about the weapon system, you can go over it (as should be done prior to putting it into service ) and get details like that squared away.

But hey, spend the extra money if you want, it IS your money.

But don't try to tell us significantly extra expense somehow equals "better".

Function of a firearm is a pass/fail test.

Link Posted: 4/28/2009 6:30:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/28/2009 6:30:49 AM EDT by LX200]
But I don't think it has to lead to significant extra expense... it might help you decide between an LMT at $1200, and an RRA at $1100... it's not always a decision between a Colt and an Olympic Arms.

And you're right, it's pass/fail.  Some want to insure that their failure rate is as low as possible.  Because for them, failure at the wrong time is a big issue.  I think some of the items listed on the sheet can contribute to failure rate, no?

I just don't understand the mentality that if somebody feels something is important, and you don't, they must have some sort of psycological disorder.  Is it really that cut and dry?
Link Posted: 4/28/2009 8:36:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2009 1:27:09 PM EDT by Cold]
Originally Posted By nationwide:
Originally Posted By ridewaves:
The Chart
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&hl=en

The thread
REMOVED, links to sties hostile to AR15.com as deemed by staff are not allowed ~Cold

I don't know why everyone around here writes it off.  If you don't know your manufacturers it's a good reference.  Rob S keeps it updated and unbiased IMO.  Earlier versions included individual opinions on the pecking order, but all it is is a list of features, testing and assembly methods.


Actually, it's a reference for people with varying degrees of OCD.

Tell me what difference it makes,for example, if the barrel assy is parked before or after the FSB is installed?  Answer... none.

Well, unless you are some OCD prick worried about your investment that you never really shoot, but rather look at, fondle, and show off.

Every manufacturer that makes AR's has a failure rate.  Some are better than others, but NONE are scheduled.

Buy a cheapo AR, take the difference and take an Armorer Course.  THEN you can quickly fix your gun when it goes down, instead of asking why your Colt just took a shit on you.


OCD? Prick? Really?


Link Posted: 4/28/2009 10:21:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2009 1:27:34 PM EDT by Cold]
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Originally Posted By nationwide:
Originally Posted By ridewaves:
The Chart
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&hl=en

The thread
REMOVED, links to sties hostile to AR15.com as deemed by staff are not allowed ~Cold

I don't know why everyone around here writes it off.  If you don't know your manufacturers it's a good reference.  Rob S keeps it updated and unbiased IMO.  Earlier versions included individual opinions on the pecking order, but all it is is a list of features, testing and assembly methods.


Actually, it's a reference for people with varying degrees of OCD.

Tell me what difference it makes,for example, if the barrel assy is parked before or after the FSB is installed?  Answer... none.

Well, unless you are some OCD prick worried about your investment that you never really shoot, but rather look at, fondle, and show off.

Every manufacturer that makes AR's has a failure rate.  Some are better than others, but NONE are scheduled.

Buy a cheapo AR, take the difference and take an Armorer Course.  THEN you can quickly fix your gun when it goes down, instead of asking why your Colt just took a shit on you.


OCD? Prick? Really?




While no personal insult was intended, the absolute insistence that a rifle will fail if all of this "mission critical information for working firearms!" is not followed...  Yeah, I'll stick with "prick".

Sometimes I think that chart (although I witnessed it's initial evolution on TOS) is propagated by trolls from the custom shops trying to build business from the fan boys and the newbs.

We have no shortage of either 'round these parts.  
Link Posted: 4/28/2009 11:28:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2009 1:30:19 PM EDT by Cold]
Originally Posted By nationwide:
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Originally Posted By nationwide:
Originally Posted By ridewaves:
The Chart
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&hl=en

The thread
REMOVED, links to sties hostile to AR15.com as deemed by staff are not allowed ~Cold

I don't know why everyone around here writes it off.  If you don't know your manufacturers it's a good reference.  Rob S keeps it updated and unbiased IMO.  Earlier versions included individual opinions on the pecking order, but all it is is a list of features, testing and assembly methods.


Actually, it's a reference for people with varying degrees of OCD.

Tell me what difference it makes,for example, if the barrel assy is parked before or after the FSB is installed?  Answer... none.

Well, unless you are some OCD prick worried about your investment that you never really shoot, but rather look at, fondle, and show off.

Every manufacturer that makes AR's has a failure rate.  Some are better than others, but NONE are scheduled.

Buy a cheapo AR, take the difference and take an Armorer Course.  THEN you can quickly fix your gun when it goes down, instead of asking why your Colt just took a shit on you.


OCD? Prick? Really?




While no personal insult was intended, the absolute insistence that a rifle will fail if all of this "mission critical information for working firearms!" is not followed...  Yeah, I'll stick with "prick".

Sometimes I think that chart (although I witnessed it's initial evolution on TOS) is propagated by trolls from the custom shops trying to build business from the fan boys and the newbs.

We have no shortage of either 'round these parts.  


I could understand that if the info was grossly innacurate, or there was some part telling a reader that "This gun is not as good because it doesn't have this."... Unless I'm missing something, it's only a list of who does what.

Edit:  I do agree that many people incorrectly use that chart as the end all declaration of manufacturer superiority, but I'd say that's their problem... and the problem of people who don't have the mental capacity see through their BS. If someone wants to think that their gun is better than everyone elses because it sits towards one end of a spreadsheet, that's fine with me.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 1:13:47 PM EDT
"The chart" is a good reference for comparison.  Most of those who bash it are the same type of people who think that RRA is better than Colt because the upper and lower fit tighter.  Unfortunately for them, "The Chart" does not have categories for fit and finish or other superficial junk.  It shows what kind of materials/testing, procedures are supposed to be present on the AR15 pattern rife, who does it and who doesn't.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 1:26:04 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 1:27:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2009 1:27:46 PM EDT by Cold]
ENOUGH name calling
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 1:28:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2009 1:28:52 PM EDT by Cold]
fixed
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 1:30:05 PM EDT
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