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Posted: 10/4/2005 11:50:39 AM EDT
I am building my first AR with a Mega lower with RRA LPK and Mega upper. I have a 6-pos RRA M4 collapsible stock on the way. I want a 16" threaded barrel. I assumed that M4 specified "carbine", but think I may be wrong. Also, I have no idea what the differences are between A1, A2, A3, etc. Sorry for the retardedness, but I'm learning!!!
 Thanks!!!BTW, do I need to be concerned with getting an "M4 cut" upper? Really confused by that, because isn't Colt the only one who offers such a thing? Why would the barrels be different anyway? |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 12:03:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Read and all will be made clear: groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/whatisana1a2a3ora4.msnw
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Posted: 10/4/2005 12:08:18 PM EDT
[#2]
The M4 (besides being select fire) has a 6-pos stock, 14.5" barrel with notch for M203 grenade launcher, and M4 feed ramps on both the upper receiver and barrel extention. Someone else will be along to add anything I missed.
As far as A1, A2 and A3 uppers.... A1 upper--rear sight doesn't have elevation adjustments, and the windage is difficult to adjust:  A2 upper: current military irons with rear elevation and windage adjustments (sorry about the crappy pic):  A3 upper: flattop for mounting optics:  ETA: the last one is about as close to an M4 as a civilian can get without a tax stamp. |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 12:58:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Thanks guys!!! I will read that link thoroughly.
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Posted: 10/4/2005 1:06:33 PM EDT
[#4]
It actually has a 4-position stock... Please read this so you dont spread the wrong information... COLT M4 |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 2:24:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Really? They are being made with 4 position stocks? I'm not trying to be a dick, but he didn't ask what the first M4 was exactly and JackalAR did state he's got a 6 position RRA on the way. So, let's get technical- the stocks are the same. It's the receiver extension that dictates positions and a 6-position is just fine and I'd be surprised if Colt still had and used 4-position tubes instead of the abundant 6-position milspec tubes that are all over the place. ETA- 5 position, not 6 position...
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Posted: 10/4/2005 2:25:08 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm still a little confused about the M4. What makes the RRA 6-pos collapsible stock I just ordered "M4"? I know an "M4" upper has the M4 cuts in it, but what makes a barrel "M4"? I noticed there are 14.5" M4 barrels, 16" M4 barrels, then there are superlight and Hbar 16" barrels.
 Is it the cut for the M203 or whatever grenade launcher? Why would a civi want this cut if there's no chance in hell of getting one? My goal is a threaded 16" barrel with probably mid length rail system. Not sure whether or not I want a fixed front site or flip-up.
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Posted: 10/4/2005 2:30:44 PM EDT
[#7]
Civis think it looks cool. A true M4 barrel is 14.5", has an a2 flash hider and is "M4 profile" which is light under the guards and has the notch. 1/7 twist rate, chrome lined, etc. That said, it doesn't matter. Just build what you want and don't worry about whether it is an m4 or not. |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 2:32:16 PM EDT
[#8]
RRA receiver extensions are NOT milspec. Colt, Stag, CMT, LMT and VLTOR are milspec 4-5 pos tubes.
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Posted: 10/4/2005 2:55:06 PM EDT
[#9]
I know my RRA stock is coming with a non mil-spec tube, but that is just a size difference is it not?
I'm not so worried about building an "M4" as I am getting everything to match / fit. If I get an M4 profile 16" barrel and an M4 CMT upper, can I use a mid-length and / or a short rail system? I think I read on that Colt site that the M4's got a thicker barrel under the guards to allow for sustained full auto useage...is this what I can expect from a modern say Bushmaster M4 barrel? Do I even want M4 for a SHTF build or should I consider a standard barrel? How about Hbar? Thanks for your patience guys!!! |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 3:06:30 PM EDT
[#10]
No, only selected M4A1s have that heavier barrel - it's not the standard.
No Bushmaster will use the 'standard' M4 barrel (which is light under the handguards).
Stick with the M4 barrel, it gives all the accuracy and durablity you need with a nice weight reduction. |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 3:19:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Thanks much!!! Does anyone have any experience with CMT uppers on a Mega lowers? What do you guys think of CMT enhanced bolts? Should I step up to the MP checked CMT enhanced bolts since I plan to go with an MP checked Bushy barrel? Should I look at a different brand of bolt all together?
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Posted: 10/4/2005 3:24:08 PM EDT
[#12]
after all is said and done, you are basically talking about my rifle, sort of. it's a flattop like the M4, it's a 16" midlength barrel with an A2 flash hider, and I have a collapsible stock. You could buy essentially that from RRA but it isn't a clone of an M4, but who cares?? You could get THIS rifle and if you swap out their carry handle with an A2 detachable, you'd have a Damn nice rifle... It's their Elite CAR A4 which is a Midlength rifle. The true M4s have chrome lined barrels and 1:7 twist. Chrome lined is another $40 and they only offer 1:9 or 1:8 in SS like my WOA barrel... Here is mine and I'm sure you'll realize you don't need an M4 to have a pretty nice "looker"  |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 3:32:51 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 10/4/2005 3:33:10 PM EDT
[#14]
Well JosephR, If you had read the attached quote to my reply, it wasnt directed to JackalAR, it was directed to the person that was describing the features of a true M4... You my friend are describing a wannabe copy of a M4... And, again you are wrong about another thing... Those 6 position buffer tubes you have described as "that are all over the place" are NOT military spec... |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 3:38:23 PM EDT
[#15]
That's nice man!!! Like that a lot. If you don't mind, what IS a middle length barrel? I havne't started looking into twist, SS, or chromed barrels, just that I want a Bushy MP checked barrel or equivillant 4150 barrel, likely chrome lined. I have no idea what advantages SS offers or the cost. I assumed I would want a 1:9 twist since that's sort of standard I thought and is suppose to be good from 50 - 80 gr. from what I read.
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Posted: 10/4/2005 3:40:12 PM EDT
[#16]
A mid-length has the gas port (and front sight base) moved forward 2". So the FSB is the same distance from the muzzle with a 16", as the FSB is from the muzzle of a 20". It allows for a softer shooting rifle, that doesn't beat itself up as much AND gives you a longer sight radius. |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 3:42:25 PM EDT
[#17]
Sorry, I asked that before reading the new posts. Thanks for clearing that up for me fellas. What does FSB stand for? Being a computer guy I keep thinking "Front Side Bus".
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Posted: 10/4/2005 6:09:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Sorry shootersden, did I not understand that JackalAR is asking about building his own rifle and that it would NOT be a true COLT? was topgunpilot answering the GD question or was he on a soapbox giving a lecture on the "true" Colt M4? I can't help if topgunpilot mentioned 6 position when Colt specifies 4 on their website. Please don't argue with me just because you don't agree with what he is saying. Can I not say that the 6 position tube is milspec? Oh, are you going to tell my my 6 position tube is not milspec? How are you going to go about that one? I guess I'll have to have pictures ready for you... |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 6:12:42 PM EDT
[#19]
 ETA: You know joe, you remind me of a 15 year old kid that knows it all but actually doesn't know shit... 
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Posted: 10/4/2005 6:40:48 PM EDT
[#20]
it's been proven that on these boards, the 15 year old is always the one to start accusing the other of being a 15 year old.
I simply tried making a point to Jackal that he didn't need to find a 4 position tube to make himself an M4. You pointed out that you were quoting and responding to someone else. I simply added that it still doesn't matter- he's not going to get a real M4 and he knows it. He wanted to know if what he had on order and what he thought in his head would get him an M4. That 6 position receiver extension is just fine. I would be willing to bet a stock and buffer tube that if you polled this entire board, 9 out of 10 (or maybe 11) collapsible stock ARs would not be using a 4 position tube. |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 7:23:16 PM EDT
[#21]
My understanding is that with regard to the buffer tube/receiver extension, "milspec" refers to the tube diameter (the true milspec tube being slightly smaller in diameter than the Bushy/RRA/DPMS?/etc tubes). Concerning the "abundant 6-position milspec tubes that are all over the place" Are there actually any 6-position milspec tubes out there?? I'm pretty sure Colt doesn't make any, and I know Vltor makes 5 position tubes. LMT? CMT? Enquiring minds want to know!!! 
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Posted: 10/4/2005 7:26:25 PM EDT
[#22]
I believe STAG/CMT and LMT do make a 6 position tube that is made the same diameter as the mil-spec tube... |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 7:31:29 PM EDT
[#23]
Heres a good place to buy parts from if your interested... Stag Arms M4 Type II Mil Spec Buttstock Assembly
ETA: FYI... Eagle Firearms is affiliated with arfcom... Good people to deal with... |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 7:42:36 PM EDT
[#24]
Thanks for info! Looks like better deal than buying 5 position tube to go with my Vltor. |
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Posted: 10/4/2005 7:45:03 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 10/4/2005 7:50:33 PM EDT
[#26]
Thanks for the link
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Posted: 10/4/2005 7:51:43 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 10/4/2005 7:57:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Derp!!!
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Posted: 10/4/2005 8:11:57 PM EDT
[#29]
I had a hard time with FSB too... Whenever I see "FSB" with no "Mhz" anywhere nearby, I can assume it's Front Sight Base. Otherwise it's front side bus for me too. There was one guy who was mixing them both up and asking about the front side base of his rifle...
It's not about the diameter of the tube per se. I just took some pictures and can't get the ftp to the office to work... I use my LMT milspec tube. It's a 5 position tube. My Generic (RRA) ribbed stock will fit over it but it wears away the Duracoat a little bit. The RRA's tube is 6 position and a little longer. The cross section of the tubes is what causes most mil spec stocks to NOT fit on non milspec tubes. The cross section looks like a short fat stick at the bottom of a big round lollipop. non milspec tubes have a fillet on each side where the round tube and rectangular pin engagement area. Which is which??    
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Posted: 10/4/2005 8:28:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Wow, great pics man. Thanks!!!
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Posted: 10/4/2005 10:08:07 PM EDT
[#31]
Eaglefirearms carrys a clone mil-spec stock complete for $85 and thats with an H buffer.
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Posted: 10/5/2005 7:25:20 AM EDT
[#32]
What's with all these different buffer weights? What would I want to try first in my "M4" with the RRA collabsible...the one that came with it? What buffer would that be?
I know the heavier ones are for full auto slower-cycling...isn't that the "H"? Thanks. |
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Posted: 10/5/2005 9:32:41 AM EDT
[#33]
H is for Heavy just like C is for Cookie. The Army is like that
I don't know what it was originally made for be it the M4 or the 9mm CARs or what. It can be used in a lot of others and people really like them. The midlength guys really like them in their collapsible stocks. I have a "regular" buffer and it works just fine. Maybe if you have a choice you should/can go ahead and get the H. If not, don't worry one bit about it. The milspec does look smaller in diameter- i'll agree to that but it's probably because of the way the RRA is cut at an angle. |
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Posted: 10/5/2005 11:06:43 AM EDT
[#34]
The 3.8oz. "H" buffer is used with the COLT M4 carbine... It is also the buffer that I highly recommend for any M4rgery build... |
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Posted: 10/5/2005 12:20:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Is this the one that would come with my RRA? If not, what does it come with and why? Where can I get the one I need by itself? Thanks!!!
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Posted: 10/5/2005 1:31:58 PM EDT
[#36]
RRA isn't going to ship an "H" buffer with the stock... You will receive the standard carbine type with it...
If you would like to upgrade to an "H" buffer, I recommend contacting Michael @ "The Tactical Solution"... His email is [email protected] ... He has LMT manufactured buffers and if IIRC, they are $15.00 shipped... |
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Posted: 10/5/2005 1:53:41 PM EDT
[#37]
Can you tell me why the "H" buffer is preferred? An LMT buffer won't work in a RRA buffer tube correct? LMT is Mil-Spec.
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Posted: 10/5/2005 2:25:46 PM EDT
[#38]
The interior is the same size. The H buffer is prefferred because it slows the recoil impulse to a gentle push, delays unlocking, and on short barreled autos it reduces the rate of fire and helps to stop bolt bounce. |
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Posted: 10/5/2005 2:37:26 PM EDT
[#39]
...and you guys would recommend this for my 16" barrel'd "M4gery" that'll probably mostly see .223 that I can't rapid fire OR double tap on the range?
What do you guys think of the Stag Tri-Nozzle? |
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Posted: 10/5/2005 7:37:20 PM EDT
[#40]
You are really moving away from the stock M4 look fast and even faster with that brake. I don't like brakes much. Although I'm not hiding and sniping from the weeds at night, I still like the good 'ol Flash Supressor. They look better IMHO and are free with most barrels.
Here's something to think about- there is also a left handed carry handle on that page as well. That must be Stag's "useless as tits on a bull" page. Yes, I do understand they make the left handed upper but I still don't see a need for a left handed carry handle, even with that left handed upper. They only moved the knobs anyway, not the windage dial... |
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Posted: 10/5/2005 7:52:58 PM EDT
[#41]
I see, didn't think of that. Really can't decide on 14.5 or 16. Wanted 16 mid-length, but that's so I could change FH's if I wanted. Do permanently attached FH's get in the way of removing / installing fore ends?
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Posted: 10/5/2005 7:58:12 PM EDT
[#42]
Yes they do, with the free float forearms... If you plan on just using the standard type replacement hand guards, it wouldn't make a difference... |
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Posted: 10/5/2005 8:12:37 PM EDT
[#43]
That pushes me even further toward a mid-length 16" threaded barrel. Talk about getting away from the M4 look huh? I just discovered Bushmaster doesn't make an M4 cut feedramp barrel. I'm also wondering if they even make a mid-length?
If not, who else makes 4150 and / or MP checked barrels in a 16" mid? Do M4 feedramp cuts even belong on a 16" barrel since the the M4 has 14.5 only? Is my M4 stock going to look retarded on a 16" mid lenght with rail system? 
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Posted: 10/5/2005 8:21:55 PM EDT
[#44]
If you want 16" length, 4150 steel, M4 feed ramps and the m203 cut out for "the M4 look" get a COLT then... The COLT LE6920 barrel is what you want... |
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Posted: 10/5/2005 8:25:08 PM EDT
[#45]
Sweet, sounds expensive...any idea approx. how much I'd need to shell out?
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Posted: 10/5/2005 8:29:07 PM EDT
[#46]
Go to the EE section and post an add and see what you come up with... EXAMPLE: WTB, 16" barrel, 4150 steel, M4 feed ramps and has the m203 cut out... |
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Posted: 10/5/2005 8:32:53 PM EDT
[#47]
Did Colt make a mid-length in this config? Does anyone?
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