Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page AR-15 » Ammunition
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Page / 6
Link Posted: 4/2/2023 8:52:42 PM EST
[#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jman_JJE:


It is, it’s an industrial machine that uses steel gears to catch and align the rounds. It sometimes grabs the brass wrong and pinches/binds it. We are working on changes but it is causing the problem. The machine is the size of a small school bus and the rounds go in a hopper.
View Quote


The first batch I bought from you guys had significant dents, the second did not, so I guess you are making progress.

Hopefully you can get the SD dialed in a little bit too.

If you can maintain the price points you have now, you are probably right about this becoming a market dominator.
fnh
Link Posted: 4/2/2023 8:55:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: JAG05] [#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jnat:
Seating depth looks to vary some as well.
View Quote


Maybe they’re seating to Ogive vs OAL…
Link Posted: 4/3/2023 12:20:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: bfoosh06] [#3]
Link Posted: 4/3/2023 12:33:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: JAG05] [#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:



@Jman_JJE


Honestly, lots of manufacturers "talked" about "fixing / helping" the ammo shortage issue.... and yet PSA / JJE / AAC is one of the few places actually doing something about it.  

And in record time !

The denting issue will work its self out. A little fine tuning ( or even machinery break in ) will slow the issue.


I have to say , again , given the prices and the accuracy I have seen so far... both the AAC 77gr loads are bargains... so Thank You.

Jamin is winning.... and we are reaping the profits.

Even if the accuracy doesn't quite met everyone's criteria... it is still certainly good enough for the fragmentation range of the 77gr SMK bullet.   And I suspect, the fragmentation range of the "Precision" 5.56 77gr OTM will be quite similar. ( Fingers crossed )

The AAC velocities are respectable for a 77gr load.... they are not pre-neutered IMI speeds... but they are CBC 5.56 77gr speeds.
And are 150-300 FPS faster then .223 77gr loads. FGMM 77gr loads from my 20" ran at 2410fps... and the PSA SMK has the same accuracy at 100yds.


By chance, will the performance results include ballistic gel testing ?  Maybe a side by side comparision of the SMK 77gr and the AAC 77gr OTM.

As far as the ES numbers... maybe check how consistent the neck tension is, or perhaps a little more neck tension.



Anyway.... Thank You Jamin, you are a true Patriot .



Oops... I forgot the AAC 77gr "Precision" load is in stock again as of 10:15 this morning.
View Quote


Agree on everything you said. PSA/AAC is doing great things. Outside of Magtech it was always hard for me to find a consistent performing 77gr load (none of my guns ever liked IMI). It’ll be nice to have a load that I think (hopefully) will be in stock/able to stack deep. While I would like to see a bit more velocity on the AAC offering, for the price and accuracy I can’t complain. It seems to run about 60-80 fps slower out of my main 2 precision AR’s compared to CBC/Magtech, but still plenty good to 600-700 yards. Sealed bullet and primer would be nice down the road maybe too. Magtech has claimed their 77gr will be back in production this year since they had pricing issues with Sierra and started producing their own projectiles too. We will see how they fair with all that.

Of course there will be some issues to work out with a new facility, machines, etc. it’ll get worked out, good to see direct communication from PSA in these threads. Excited to try the .308 and 6.5 stuff when it comes out!
Link Posted: 4/3/2023 4:38:06 PM EST
[#5]
Originally Posted By JAG05:


Agree on everything you said. PSA/AAC is doing great things. Outside of Magtech it was always hard for me to find a consistent performing 77gr load (none of my guns ever liked IMI). It’ll be nice to have a load that I think (hopefully) will be in stock/able to stack deep. While I would like to see a bit more velocity on the AAC offering, for the price and accuracy I can’t complain. It seems to run about 60-80 fps slower out of my main 2 precision AR’s compared to CBC/Magtech, but still plenty good to 600-700 yards. Sealed bullet and primer would be nice down the road maybe too. Magtech has claimed their 77gr will be back in production this year since they had pricing issues with Sierra and started producing their own projectiles too. We will see how they fair with all that.

Of course there will be some issues to work out with a new facility, machines, etc. it’ll get worked out, good to see direct communication from PSA in these threads. Excited to try the .308 and 6.5 stuff when it comes out!
View Quote


Appreciate the kind words and support everyone.

This country needs an ammo plant that makes its own primers focused on promoting freedom to the civilian market.


Link Posted: 4/4/2023 8:39:56 AM EST
[#6]
Link Posted: 4/4/2023 4:27:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: SuperJlarge] [#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
@SuperJlarge

Are the headstamps the same on both the AAC 77gr loads, IE the SMK load and the "Precision" load ?
View Quote



Yes. I did note some faint red on two of the precision load primers. I’ll need to deconstruct them to see if these are sealed.
Link Posted: 4/4/2023 4:46:40 PM EST
[#8]
18” Rainier Ultramatch



Avg 2782 S-D 24.6
ES 96
Series Shot Speed
29 1 2774 ft/s
29 2 2781 ft/s
29 3 2789 ft/s
29 4 2777 ft/s
29 5 2792 ft/s
29 6 2829 ft/s
29 7 2733 ft/s
29 8 2780 ft/s
29 9 2770 ft/s
29 10 2804 ft/s

If one were to remove shot 7, the Std. goes to 18.39 and ES drops to 59fps.
Link Posted: 4/4/2023 4:56:09 PM EST
[#9]
Testing of a LaRue MGU and Geissele upper with the AAC 77gr OTM thanks to the GA HTF. Neither upper had a bipod, so I used a front bag and small rear squeeze bag.

The LT upper was brand new, so it may group better after a few more rds and a good cleaning. I started in the upper left getting the optic zero’d and then fired groups, adjusting 0.3mil right between the first group and the remaining 2.

The G upper was quite surprising. I shot the middle group, then the two on the ends. I adjusted my hold technique after the middle group and each subsequent group had 4 very close together. It impressed me; as I don’t use a LPVO often. I think that running a different magazine or tweaking the gas tube could help the upper, but the ammo shot very respectable imo.





Link Posted: 4/4/2023 5:44:03 PM EST
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jman_JJE:


We are working on that and 6.5 creedmor right now
View Quote
With the only 'affordable' load averaging 80+ cpr, can I ask where 6.5 Grendel is on your roadmap?

IS it on your roadmap?
Link Posted: 4/4/2023 5:49:35 PM EST
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Amish_Bill:
With the only 'affordable' load averaging 80+ cpr, can I ask where 6.5 Grendel is on your roadmap?

IS it on your roadmap?
View Quote

There’s a lot of demand for 6.5G that’s affordable.
Link Posted: 4/4/2023 9:26:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: JAG05] [#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:

Testing of a LaRue MGU and Geissele upper with the AAC 77gr OTM thanks to the GA HTF. Neither upper had a bipod, so I used a front bag and small rear squeeze bag.

The LT upper was brand new, so it may group better after a few more rds and a good cleaning. I started in the upper left getting the optic zero’d and then fired groups, adjusting 0.3mil right between the first group and the remaining 2.

The G upper was quite surprising. I shot the middle group, then the two on the ends. I adjusted my hold technique after the middle group and each subsequent group had 4 very close together. It impressed me; as I don’t use a LPVO often. I think that running a different magazine or tweaking the gas tube could help the upper, but the ammo shot very respectable imo.

https://i.imgur.com/ykJmBU8.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/v8xDD8t.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/svob2AW.jpg
View Quote


Yeah those Geissele groups are a little rough. What barrel is that? Looks stainless steel, but thought they only sold the CHF chrome lined barrels.
Link Posted: 4/5/2023 2:33:34 PM EST
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jman_JJE:


We are keeping the SMK version as well as launching the TMK and 70gr TSX this month.

We will be releasing performance results on the 77gr OTM and several other rounds we are releasing over then next several months.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jman_JJE:
Originally Posted By JAG05:


Are you guys planning to keep the SMK version stocked as well or are you discontinuing the SMK version for the AAC projectiles? Any performance/fragmentation info on the AAC projectile?


We are keeping the SMK version as well as launching the TMK and 70gr TSX this month.

We will be releasing performance results on the 77gr OTM and several other rounds we are releasing over then next several months.


Early this month or later? So I know when to be on the look out.
Link Posted: 4/5/2023 3:53:10 PM EST
[#14]
Originally Posted By NorCalRT:


Early this month or later? So I know when to be on the look out.
View Quote


About 10 days
Link Posted: 4/6/2023 10:19:37 AM EST
[#15]
Now we know who bought up all the TMK lol
Link Posted: 4/6/2023 1:22:36 PM EST
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SuperJlarge:
Fully semi-automatic

18” Rainier Ultramatch
https://i.imgur.com/Yst6LBD.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/zT8i72B.jpg


18” Rainier Rock Creek blank

https://i.imgur.com/kFhnH9m.jpg

I’d cleaned the barrel prior to this trip and used target 1 to foul the bore. Three groups from my bolt gun are also included on this target.
https://i.imgur.com/a2BESEn.jpg
View Quote


@SuperJlarge  Very good shooting!  I also shoot a Rainier 18" UM but average more around 1 - 1.1 MOA with CBC 77SMK.   I'll have to try some of this new PSA 77!

About where in GA are you?  I shoot at PCSC.
Link Posted: 4/6/2023 4:18:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: Network_Daddy] [#17]
Going to grab 200 rounds and I'll post chrono results when I get it.  I did like the 75grain so we will see how this does.  And I'll let you know if I see any mangled ones.
Link Posted: 4/6/2023 4:32:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: NotRyan] [#18]
Link Posted: 4/6/2023 4:55:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: JohnDough] [#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jman_JJE:


We are keeping the SMK version as well as launching the TMK and 70gr TSX this month.

We will be releasing performance results on the 77gr OTM and several other rounds we are releasing over then next several months.
View Quote


What is your velocity target for the 70gr TSX? I'd like to be over 2500fps from my 11.5. Also, will you be sealing the neck and primer? IF this is going to approximate Browntip as alleged, that's kinda the criteria.

Also, a sealed 5.56 75gr Gold Dot would be really neat...
Link Posted: 4/6/2023 8:04:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: stainlineho] [#20]
Shot my ammo today out to 600 yds. Couldn’t get velocities as my buddy with the MagnetoSpeed couldn’t make it to the range due to work. It was holding .8-.9 MOA all day out of the White Oak 16” SPR barrel with the AEM5.

None of the boxes I’ve opened so far have any dents or defects. For the money the ammo can’t be beat. I’m happy.

I will also mention I put in 2700fps in my ballistics calculator. That had me at 4.8 mils at 600yds. I was shooting high and needed only 4.6 mils to make x-ring impacts.
Link Posted: 4/6/2023 8:08:50 PM EST
[#21]
It will be interesting to see the results of any ballistic gel testing with this load.
Link Posted: 4/6/2023 8:11:39 PM EST
[#22]
whats the price of the TMKs? sounds like a deadly coyote round for this up coming hunting season!!!
Link Posted: 4/7/2023 9:35:03 AM EST
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Foxtrot2November:
whats the price of the TMKs? sounds like a deadly coyote round for this up coming hunting season!!!
View Quote

The website is showing 80 cents per which would work out to $16
Link Posted: 4/10/2023 12:37:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: bfoosh06] [#24]
Link Posted: 4/10/2023 5:08:55 PM EST
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:



@SuperJlarge

Thank You.

Do you have your Lot #'s ?   TOS, recorded some seriously high velocities from Lot # SCL1CC241  ( With the AAC 77gr bullet / Precision line )
View Quote


That’s the same lot # I’ve got.

Curious how they were measuring velocity, if you’re talking about the 18” Douglas barrel.
Link Posted: 4/10/2023 7:57:38 PM EST
[#26]
Link Posted: 4/11/2023 7:22:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: ct78] [#27]
Has anyone else had any more use with it?

I’ve heard some people have been making returns back to PSA. I should be able to try some of mine this Saturday. I believe my lot is exclusively #SCL1CC241 as well. I wouldn’t be thrilled if I’m getting 25% failures like others have mentioned.
Link Posted: 4/11/2023 7:23:16 PM EST
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ct78:
Has anyone else had any more use with it?

I’ve heard some people have been making returns back to PSA. I should be able to try some of mine this Saturday.
View Quote


Why?
Link Posted: 4/11/2023 7:24:35 PM EST
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:


Why?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Originally Posted By ct78:
Has anyone else had any more use with it?

I’ve heard some people have been making returns back to PSA. I should be able to try some of mine this Saturday.


Why?


I read on Insta that some people have submitted RMA requests. Bruiser Industries in particular was sharing screenshots of user reports he has gotten.
Link Posted: 4/11/2023 7:46:47 PM EST
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ct78:
Has anyone else had any more use with it?

I've heard some people have been making returns back to PSA. I should be able to try some of mine this Saturday. I believe my lot is exclusively #SCL1CC241 as well. I wouldn't be thrilled if I'm getting 25% failures like others have mentioned.
View Quote
where have failures been mentioned?
Link Posted: 4/11/2023 9:52:37 PM EST
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mcantu:
where have failures been mentioned?
View Quote


I noticed a thread on M4, but the failures seem to indicate feeding issues. No clue what to make of those posts, unless it’s a gas issue. They are running the same lot as I have, but they had issues in 3 rifles. I’ve ran it in 4 with no issues.

I’ll run it in the DD, LT and 2 other Rainier builds over the weekend if time permits.
Link Posted: 4/11/2023 10:31:53 PM EST
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ct78:
Has anyone else had any more use with it?

I’ve heard some people have been making returns back to PSA. I should be able to try some of mine this Saturday. I believe my lot is exclusively #SCL1CC241 as well. I wouldn’t be thrilled if I’m getting 25% failures like others have mentioned.
View Quote


I’ve shot about 50 of the 160 rounds I purchased. None had major dents and no failures.
Link Posted: 4/12/2023 10:59:46 AM EST
[#33]
Good to know it’s been consistent for folks here so far.

I’ll run some thru my Sionics upper this weekend. I’ll also have a buddy who owns a DD run some through his. I hope to post some 5 round group sizes of this compared to some IMI 77gr razorcore vs standard 55gr. PMC.
Link Posted: 4/12/2023 7:19:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: dlm1984] [#34]
I finally made it to the range twice today because someone didn't bring all the ammo or check the chronograph battery.

I used my 18" rifle that I use for local gas gun and occasional PRS matches. Trigger is a Geissele HSNM adjusted to near the recommended minimums, and it's topped with a Nightforce ATACR 4-16x42 FFP scope with the mil xt reticle.  Barrel is an 18" Larue Stealth with M4 ramps that has around 2 - 2.5k on it if I had to guess. Groups were fired from a bench, using the bipod up front and a gamechanger/fortune cookie style bag under the stock. It was sunny, low 80's with some gusty winds here and there. Typical PA springtime...

It's historically liked IMI Razorcore 77gr ammo, and is good for 7/8" to 1" groups in my hands. I'd like to believe I'm better than that, but I don't have any precision bolt guns to see if I actually am, so I'll have to consider that the baseline.

Attachment Attached File


My test process wasn't the most scientific, but I tried to keep a fairly level playing field by firing 5 rounds, switching targets, chronograph strings and ammo, then firing 5 more and working my way through the selections. Then I worked my way back through the collection for a total of 10 rounds of each ammo on each target. Then I switched target colors, since I seemed to be shooting better at red aiming points and repeated the process, although I ran out of Black Hills. Finally, to wrap things up for giggles I fired 10 rounds each of IMI and AAC about as quickly as I could get settled back onto target, since my eyes were starting to struggle a bit.  Chrono data is in reverse order:

Black Hills 77 grain. I don't know which box color this was, as I traded with a friend for the loose ammo a couple years ago, and just had a couple rounds remaining. The 9 shots my chronograph picked up were 2650, 2624, 2645, 2624, 2629, 2583, 2619, 2614 for 2623 fps average, 67 es, 20 sd.

Attachment Attached File


Or dropping the worst shot or two, in case I was responsible for a flyer or two:
Attachment Attached File


Frontier 75gr Hornady :  I picked this ammo up last season because some of the guys I know were having pretty good luck with it and it was a good bit cheaper. I didn't have time to shoot for groups or chrono data before the a couple of matches, and while it shot OK, I could tell it wasn't as consistent as the IMI I usually use. 15 shots registered on the chronograph: 2721, 2743, 2766, 2749, 2766, 2743, 2704, 2749, 2732, 2645, 2682, 2677, 2688, 2661, 2672 for 2713 average, 121 es, and 40 sd.

Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File


Or dropping 1-2 shots as above:
Attachment Attached File

 
Attachment Attached File



IMI 77gr SMK:
My chronograph picked up 16 rounds during the standard string of fire at 2624, 2682, 2614, 2619, 2666, 2661, 2614, 2614, 2604, 2629, 2614, 2578, 2661, 2635, 2614, 2588 for 2626 average, 104 es, 28 sd. This was about 50 fps slower than my historic recorded speeds - it might be about time to clean this rifle again.

The chrono picked up all 10 rounds from my rapid fire string at 2588, 2604, 2604, 2583, 2629, 2594, 2619, 2614, 2614, 2624 for 2607 average, 46 es 15 sd.

Attachment Attached File


I wish I knew what caused this group to be so much bigger than the normal results I was seeing with this ammo, but it is what it is and I'm not going to hide it...
Attachment Attached File


Rapid:
Attachment Attached File


Or again, removing the worst shot or two:
Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File


AAC 77gr with their in-house 77gr OTM: The chronograph was cooperating quite well and captured all 20 of the standard string and the 10 rapid shots.
Data was 2656, 2699, 2645, 2721, 2715, 2661, 2704, 2677, 2726, 2715, 2743, 2760, 2760, 2777, 2783, 2732, 2743, 2732, 2710, 2710 for 2718 average, 138 es, and 38 sd. It was apparent that this round had a little more power than my IMI stuff.  The rapid fire string came up with 2732, 2704, 2732, 2743, 2710, 2749, 2650, 2715, 2710, 2732 for 2717 fps average, 99 es, and 28 sd.

Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File


Rapid:
Attachment Attached File


Removing 1 or 2 poorer shots, either for error or to illustrate what would be possible if they can dial in the velocity spread a bit:
Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File


Hopefully it's all there and organized after a million edits to get around the 5 image limit...
Link Posted: 4/12/2023 8:05:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: Molon] [#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dlm1984:
AAC 77gr with their in-house 77gr BTHP.  
1.63"
1.37"
1.23"
for an average of 1.41"


View Quote


MEN M193 does better than that.

...
Link Posted: 4/12/2023 9:29:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: dlm1984] [#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Molon:


MEN M193 does better than that.

...
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By dlm1984:
AAC 77gr with their in-house 77gr BTHP.  
1.63"
1.37"
1.23"
for an average of 1.41"




MEN M193 does better than that.

...


I'll counter with my shooting and IMI ammo today: 1.46", 2.08" and 1.03" for an average of 1.52".  I know IMI can shoot in this rifle, so I believe further head to head testing is in order.  It’s been at least 12-18 months since I've shot for groups, and there's some variability that I need to chase down.

I'll give you that the extreme spread and standard deviation are higher than almost everything I shot today, which means there's room to improve the product.  I see potential there, and given the progress they've made in the past decade or so, I'm not counting them out.

I'm going to test it at distance during one of the upcoming gas gun matches, and as long as it behaves at around the level that my 100 yard testing indicates, well...it'll be my new favorite, since 150-200 rounds of 75/77gr plus match fees add up quickly these days.

Link Posted: 4/13/2023 10:42:12 AM EST
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jman_JJE:


About 10 days
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jman_JJE:
Originally Posted By NorCalRT:


Early this month or later? So I know when to be on the look out.


About 10 days


I added it to my notify me list.
Link Posted: 4/13/2023 10:47:10 AM EST
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dlm1984:
I finally made it to the range twice today because someone didn't bring all the ammo or check the chronograph battery.

I used my 18" rifle that I use for local gas gun and occasional PRS matches. Trigger is a Geissele HSNM adjusted to near the recommended minimums, and it's topped with a Nightforce ATACR 4-16x42 FFP scope with the mil xt reticle.  Barrel is an 18" Larue Stealth with M4 ramps that has around 2 - 2.5k on it if I had to guess. Groups were fired from a bench, using the bipod up front and a gamechanger/fortune cookie style bag under the stock. It was sunny, low 80's with some gusty winds here and there. Typical PA springtime...

It's historically liked IMI Razorcore 77gr ammo, and is good for 7/8" to 1" groups in my hands. I'd like to believe I'm better than that, but I don't have any precision bolt guns to see if I actually am, so I'll have to consider that the baseline.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_194455_jpg-2780265.JPG

My test process wasn't the most scientific, but I tried to keep a fairly level playing field by firing 5 rounds, switching targets, chronograph strings and ammo, then firing 5 more and working my way through the selections. Then I worked my way back through the collection for a total of 10 rounds of each ammo on each target. Then I switched target colors, since I seemed to be shooting better at red aiming points and repeated the process, although I ran out of Black Hills. Finally, to wrap things up for giggles I fired 10 rounds each of IMI and AAC about as quickly as I could get settled back onto target, since my eyes were starting to struggle a bit.  Chrono data is in reverse order:

Black Hills 77 grain. I don't know which box color this was, as I traded with a friend for the loose ammo a couple years ago, and just had a couple rounds remaining. The 9 shots my chronograph picked up were 2650, 2624, 2645, 2624, 2629, 2583, 2619, 2614 for 2623 fps average, 67 es, 20 sd.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_194723_jpg-2780296.JPG

Or dropping the worst shot or two, in case I was responsible for a flyer or two:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_194735_jpg-2780298.JPG

Frontier 75gr Hornady :  I picked this ammo up last season because some of the guys I know were having pretty good luck with it and it was a good bit cheaper. I didn't have time to shoot for groups or chrono data before the a couple of matches, and while it shot OK, I could tell it wasn't as consistent as the IMI I usually use. 15 shots registered on the chronograph: 2721, 2743, 2766, 2749, 2766, 2743, 2704, 2749, 2732, 2645, 2682, 2677, 2688, 2661, 2672 for 2713 average, 121 es, and 40 sd.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_194653_jpg-2780305.JPG

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_194707_jpg-2780310.JPG

Or dropping 1-2 shots as above:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_194848_jpg-2780308.JPG
 
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_194913_jpg-2780311.JPG


IMI 77gr SMK:
My chronograph picked up 16 rounds during the standard string of fire at 2624, 2682, 2614, 2619, 2666, 2661, 2614, 2614, 2604, 2629, 2614, 2578, 2661, 2635, 2614, 2588 for 2626 average, 104 es, 28 sd. This was about 50 fps slower than my historic recorded speeds - it might be about time to clean this rifle again.

The chrono picked up all 10 rounds from my rapid fire string at 2588, 2604, 2604, 2583, 2629, 2594, 2619, 2614, 2614, 2624 for 2607 average, 46 es 15 sd.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_194628_jpg-2780316.JPG

I wish I knew what caused this group to be so much bigger than the normal results I was seeing with this ammo, but it is what it is and I'm not going to hide it...
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_194614_jpg-2780318.JPG

Rapid:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_194754_jpg-2780319.JPG

Or again, removing the worst shot or two:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_203531_jpg-2780339.JPG

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_203549_jpg-2780340.JPG

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_203607_jpg-2780341.JPG

AAC 77gr with their in-house 77gr OTM: The chronograph was cooperating quite well and captured all 20 of the standard string and the 10 rapid shots.
Data was 2656, 2699, 2645, 2721, 2715, 2661, 2704, 2677, 2726, 2715, 2743, 2760, 2760, 2777, 2783, 2732, 2743, 2732, 2710, 2710 for 2718 average, 138 es, and 38 sd. It was apparent that this round had a little more power than my IMI stuff.  The rapid fire string came up with 2732, 2704, 2732, 2743, 2710, 2749, 2650, 2715, 2710, 2732 for 2717 fps average, 99 es, and 28 sd.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_194528_jpg-2780322.JPG

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_194546_jpg-2780323.JPG

Rapid:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_194602_jpg-2780325.JPG

Removing 1 or 2 poorer shots, either for error or to illustrate what would be possible if they can dial in the velocity spread a bit:
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_194830_jpg-2780326.JPG

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_194820_jpg-2780328.JPG

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/316444/20230412_203348_jpg-2780331.JPG

Hopefully it's all there and organized after a million edits to get around the 5 image limit...
View Quote


Thanks for the pics and data. I am finally running low on my IMI midway 2016 stash and this might be the ticket, especially if they can improve the spreads in velocity a bit.
Link Posted: 4/13/2023 10:52:51 AM EST
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dlm1984:


I'll counter with my shooting and IMI ammo today: 1.46", 2.08" and 1.03" for an average of 1.52".  I know IMI can shoot in this rifle, so I believe further head to head testing is in order.  It’s been at least 12-18 months since I've shot for groups, and there's some variability that I need to chase down.

I'll give you that the extreme spread and standard deviation are higher than almost everything I shot today, which means there's room to improve the product.  I see potential there, and given the progress they've made in the past decade or so, I'm not counting them out.

I'm going to test it at distance during one of the upcoming gas gun matches, and as long as it behaves at around the level that my 100 yard testing indicates, well...it'll be my new favorite, since 150-200 rounds of 75/77gr plus match fees add up quickly these days.

View Quote


Thanks for sharing your results. They give me good hope. I can live with 1.2-1.5” groups at 55cpr
Link Posted: 4/13/2023 11:52:41 AM EST
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ct78:

Thanks for sharing your results. They give me good hope. I can live with 1.2-1.5" groups at 55cpr
View Quote
As I told a friend, even if the quality control / consistency does not improve, it's still a less expensive practice round that should be pretty close to the "real 77" ballistics.

Now, that said, I'm rooting for JSE/PSA/AAC to identify and fix the cause of these odd SD numbers. I've seen nothing but a desire to provide quality products, and a willingness to iteratively improve. Until then, I'm staying in the corner with some popcorn as the adults in the room produce valid data and insight.
Link Posted: 4/13/2023 2:58:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: bfoosh06] [#41]
Link Posted: 4/13/2023 7:07:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: dlm1984] [#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:

@dlm1984
Function was A-Ok ?

How did the brass and primers look after firing ?
View Quote


Function was flawless. Ejection was around 4:30 with no noticeable distinction from the other rounds fired. I'm not a brass or primer expert and didn't spend too much time going over the pieces in detail. But there were a handful of pieces from each manufacturer that had some small dents in the body and scratches around the neck, but I didnt spot any trends. Some brass, particularly the Black Hills (and the IMI to a lesser extent) exhibited light ejector swipes/marks.  The AAC primers looked very similar to the Black Hills in terms of dimple depth, while the IMI was appeared deeper and wider.

Black Hill primers:
Attachment Attached File


BH brass:
Attachment Attached File


Frontier primers:
Attachment Attached File


Frontier brass:
Attachment Attached File


IMI primers:
Attachment Attached File


IMI brass:
Attachment Attached File


AAC primers:
Attachment Attached File


AAC brass:
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 4/14/2023 12:22:29 PM EST
[#43]
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/6945/YoHNbx.jpg

I posted this in the industry section of PSA
Link Posted: 4/14/2023 1:22:55 PM EST
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JAG05:. Excited to try the .308 and 6.5 stuff when it comes out!
View Quote

I look forward to trying the 0.308 Win round as well.
Will it be 147-150 gr FMJ or 175 gr OTM (or similar HPBT)?

Link Posted: 4/14/2023 7:47:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: californiasushi] [#45]
I really like this ammo. I was ready to buy a bunch of the 75s when I got home from the range but it was all sold out

I tested this in our 16" DD .625 lightweight barreled factory upper with a Leupold Mk6 1-6x 5.56 CMR-W. I compared AAC 75gr, AAC 77gr SMK, IMI 77gr Razorcore, and our 75gr Hornady BTHP handloads that I had worked up for a previous service rifle barrel that shot well in subsequent WOA service rifle barrels and a few of our mil-spec barrel builds too. I shot 1 5-shot group each at 100y and got velocity data. This is how it fared:

69.4F, 27.54 inHg, 19.5% humidity
Hornady 75gr Handloads: 1.25", Avg velo: 2707 fps, 20.8 SD
AAC 75gr BTHP: 1.15", Avg velo: 2721 fps, 14.2 SD
AAC 77gr SMK: 1.5", Avg velo: 2699, 16.7 SD
IMI 77gr Razorcore: 1.2", Avg velo: 2671 fps, 31.7 SD

The AAC 75gr shot the best, had good velocity, and had the best SD. Hilariously it also also zeroed better than our Hornady 75gr handloads. Since the Mk6 has .2 mil clicks, you can be slightly high or slightly low between clicks, it just so happens that our zero is slightly high. However the AAC 75gr had better elevation. Here's a pic of the 50y POI shift, as I wanted to see the shift in order to dial it out on the turrets. They're just 3-shot groups at 50y:

Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File


Then I shot some mid/LR on steel with it. Here's the first run with the ammo. It seemed to do well and the price is really good. I'll definitely be buying more of it
Link Posted: 4/19/2023 5:42:58 PM EST
[#46]
I bought 200 rounds to break in my new White Oak  18” SPR Barreled upper.
    I’ll be buying more.
Since i’m not real good at shooting groups I’ll share my chronograph data.
    I’m was surprised at the velocities. I did check the case head expansion for signs of over pressure and they all looked normal .  I did have a Griffin Armament
Recce 5 mounted , not sure if that would’ve made a huge difference.  

Lot # SCL2CC301

Max.. 2899
Min.. 2847
ES..52
AVG..2863
SD..14.4

1. 2859
2. 2856
3. 2862
4. 2856
5. 2853
6. 2863
7. 2858
8. 2848
9. 2874
10. 2899
11. 2852
12. 2867
13. 2853
14. 2869
15. 2847
16. 2882
17. 2850
18. 2871
19. 2858
20.2894
Link Posted: 4/19/2023 11:41:57 PM EST
[#47]
Holy crap that’s moving! Even the AAC 75gr I shot through my WOA 18” barrel wasn’t that fast. It averaged 2760 fps. Seems the AAC 77gr bullet flavor is quite a bit faster than the AAC Sierra 77gr.
Link Posted: 4/19/2023 11:47:52 PM EST
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NorCalRT:


Thanks for the pics and data. I am finally running low on my IMI midway 2016 stash and this might be the ticket, especially if they can improve the spreads in velocity a bit.
View Quote

IMI Midway hedge.  Love that $.21-$.23 ammo!!!!!  

I only ordered six boxes of the PSA 77g.  Hoping they can keep the price low.  I'll buy more.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 10:19:59 AM EST
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By californiasushi:
I really like this ammo. I was ready to buy a bunch of the 75s when I got home from the range but it was all sold out

I tested this in our 16" DD .625 lightweight barreled factory upper with a Leupold Mk6 1-6x 5.56 CMR-W. I compared AAC 75gr, AAC 77gr SMK, IMI 77gr Razorcore, and our 75gr Hornady BTHP handloads that I had worked up for a previous service rifle barrel that shot well in subsequent WOA service rifle barrels and a few of our mil-spec barrel builds too. I shot 1 5-shot group each at 100y and got velocity data. This is how it fared:

69.4F, 27.54 inHg, 19.5% humidity
Hornady 75gr Handloads: 1.25", Avg velo: 2707 fps, 20.8 SD
AAC 75gr BTHP: 1.15", Avg velo: 2721 fps, 14.2 SD
AAC 77gr SMK: 1.5", Avg velo: 2699, 16.7 SD
IMI 77gr Razorcore: 1.2", Avg velo: 2671 fps, 31.7 SD

The AAC 75gr shot the best, had good velocity, and had the best SD. Hilariously it also also zeroed better than our Hornady 75gr handloads. Since the Mk6 has .2 mil clicks, you can be slightly high or slightly low between clicks, it just so happens that our zero is slightly high. However the AAC 75gr had better elevation. Here's a pic of the 50y POI shift, as I wanted to see the shift in order to dial it out on the turrets. They're just 3-shot groups at 50y:

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/75150/IMG_2301_JPG-2782727.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/75150/IMG_2302_JPG-2782728.JPG

Then I shot some mid/LR on steel with it. Here's the first run with the ammo. It seemed to do well and the price is really good. I'll definitely be buying more of it
View Quote


I averaged 2702 fps from a 16" Criterion Core. And got a 1.75" 5rd group at 200 yards. I also shot IMI Razor Core 77gr, and got a 2" group.
Link Posted: 4/20/2023 10:33:14 AM EST
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cornfed98:


I averaged 2702 fps from a 16" Criterion Core. And got a 1.75" 5rd group at 200 yards. I also shot IMI Razor Core 77gr, and got a 2" group.
View Quote


The ammo is definitely sub MOA, at least for me it was in my 16" WOA.  Barrel might not like the ammo.
Page / 6
Page AR-15 » Ammunition
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top