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Posted: 4/15/2016 6:55:21 AM EDT
Title says is all, submit pics and pros & cons please.  I'm think about this because it seems like it would be very easy to use the irons on the gun as well.
Link Posted: 4/15/2016 8:12:45 AM EDT
Something like a Trijicon RMR?

An RMR will be my next purchase. Pat Mac runs one and states they are extremely fast coming on target.....we'll see.
Link Posted: 4/15/2016 12:13:07 PM EDT
Tried a Fast Fire 3 on my shotgun yesterday.  It was decent.  Not noticeably faster than the ghost ring and front post.  I'd bet it's better on an AR as the primary optic (if you're looking for a tiny RDS in general), just because of where your eye positioning with a good cheek weld - compared to a shotgun the eye is lower.  I'll probably leave the reflex mounted to my XTR II 1-5x, as a backup RDS, when I use that optic on my AR (normally keep my Sparc 2 mounted).
Link Posted: 4/15/2016 12:46:37 PM EDT
Fastfires on a couple SBRs with low cheek weld.  Swapped the one on the left of for a Holosun 503C with the low mount.



On the .45, the Chaos rear drum has a MP5 style open notch position, so that's what I normally run when using the FF.

Link Posted: 4/15/2016 1:23:50 PM EDT
Do you consider the Aimpoint micro series or Trijicon MRO as small primary optics? If so, Travis Haley has posted pictures of his BCM 9" 300blk rifle with the MRO, and I just got in my Aimpoint T-2 earlier this week (hopefully test it out this weekend).
Link Posted: 4/15/2016 3:26:45 PM EDT





Just put it on today and need a taller mount, but I will be leaving it there.
Link Posted: 4/15/2016 4:55:46 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Fastfires on a couple SBRs with low cheek weld.  Swapped the one on the left of for a Holosun 503C with the low mount.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff206/devtucker/ARFCOM%20stuff/IMG_20150526_181651_432.jpg

On the .45, the Chaos rear drum has a MP5 style open notch position, so that's what I normally run when using the FF.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff206/devtucker/AR-45/IMG_20150127_244531_977.jpg
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You and that damn .45!

Take my money!!
Link Posted: 4/15/2016 5:09:20 PM EDT
I like this for any kind of dynamic application inside 100m and currently have  a lot of fun with a Fastfire III on a rimfire..









Used to work with Docter or RMR on top of an 4x ACOG and only ever used the ACOG when distance/precision was required. Otherwise did everything with the MRDS.
Link Posted: 4/15/2016 6:44:40 PM EDT
Leupold Deltapoint Pro




Link Posted: 4/15/2016 6:45:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/15/2016 6:47:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/15/2016 6:47:49 PM EDT
.45...
Built it as a rifle years ago, DI, soft shooting, runs like a top with decent ammo. Large hollowpoints can choke it sometimes.

Original carbine
SBR

SBR build threads
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/656717_.html&page=1&sr=0
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/666635_Folding_DI_45_SBR__Round_2_.html
Link Posted: 4/15/2016 6:49:00 PM EDT
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I have a RMR in a Predator Tactical mount on an AR with my 1-4x scope
I find myself rolling the rifle and using the RMR on shots under 100yds often.  Its just so much faster for me than the scope, that is probably just related to not being used to the scope, as it is relatively new to me (using it on an AR)

I have some Vortex Razor Red Dots on order (2 months out) to try
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Which scope, makes a difference, they're not all created equal.
Link Posted: 4/15/2016 9:21:04 PM EDT
I may give a primary arms one a try, they look good
Link Posted: 4/15/2016 9:41:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/15/2016 10:10:25 PM EDT
Yes, I do.  Leupold DeltaPoint Pro.  Duty grade.  Very clear glass, larger FOV than RMR or Fastfire, or even Aimpoint Pro.  Motion activated.  Incredible battery life.  Here it is at absolute cowitness height with riser and ADM QD mount.



It is QD mounted and serves double duty offset 45 degrees when a midpowered QD scope is indicated for shooting both up close and beyond 300 yards.



FOV compared to a 20mm tube type red dot.



Comparison to my Burris Fastfire III.



Image clarity, lack of distortion or fish eye or artifact in challenging light conditions.  I did have illumination a bit higher than needed, though.

Link Posted: 4/15/2016 10:27:06 PM EDT
Aimpoint Micro H1. Works just as well as a full size Aimpoint IMO. Don't really see a downside to the smaller optics.

Link Posted: 4/15/2016 10:29:19 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Aimpoint Micro H1. Works just as well as a full size Aimpoint IMO. Don't really see a downside to the smaller optics.

http://s16.postimg.org/5jih10e79/image.jpg
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Didn't know it was a small reflex.  Did they change the design but keep the tiny field of view 20mm tube?  Forgive me if my remark seems smartass, but the thread is about small reflex sights.  I do like Aimpoint micros, especially the size and lower weight compared to Aimpoint PRO, but not the tunnel vision and limited FOV compared to the open field of a reflex.  Mini reflex sights weigh less than two ounces and only 5 or less with riser and QD mount (depending on riser and mount design).
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 5:31:25 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Aimpoint Micro H1. Works just as well as a full size Aimpoint IMO. Don't really see a downside to the smaller optics.

http://s16.postimg.org/5jih10e79/image.jpg
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I have a lot harder time getting  on target quickly with a micro, then my 30 mm Aimpiont's. For some reason the tube affect is much more prevalent for me with the micros, then a full size 30mm rds. I have never used any of the small halo sights like the RMR, but I did own a Cmore railway reflex, and for me, it was way better then any micro that Iv'e owned. I'm just glad I figured that I don't like micros, before I spent a whole bunch of money on a H1, or T1.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 11:24:18 AM EDT
Doesn't seem slower than my PRO to me. Plus I know it will work if the rifle falls off something and lands on the optic. Regarding weight I believe that setup weighs 5.7 ounces.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 11:56:04 AM EDT
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Quoted:


Didn't know it was a small reflex.  Did they change the design but keep the tiny field of view 20mm tube?  Forgive me if my remark seems smartass, but the thread is about small reflex sights.  I do like Aimpoint micros, especially the size and lower weight compared to Aimpoint PRO, but not the tunnel vision and limited FOV compared to the open field of a reflex.  Mini reflex sights weigh less than two ounces and only 5 or less with riser and QD mount (depending on riser and mount design).
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Aimpoint Micro H1. Works just as well as a full size Aimpoint IMO. Don't really see a downside to the smaller optics.

http://s16.postimg.org/5jih10e79/image.jpg


Didn't know it was a small reflex.  Did they change the design but keep the tiny field of view 20mm tube?  Forgive me if my remark seems smartass, but the thread is about small reflex sights.  I do like Aimpoint micros, especially the size and lower weight compared to Aimpoint PRO, but not the tunnel vision and limited FOV compared to the open field of a reflex.  Mini reflex sights weigh less than two ounces and only 5 or less with riser and QD mount (depending on riser and mount design).


There is no tunnel vision with both eyes open.  Also, less housing means less obstruction so there is a good FOV
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 2:24:31 PM EDT
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Quoted:


There is no tunnel vision with both eyes open.  Also, less housing means less obstruction so there is a good FOV
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Aimpoint Micro H1. Works just as well as a full size Aimpoint IMO. Don't really see a downside to the smaller optics.

http://s16.postimg.org/5jih10e79/image.jpg


Didn't know it was a small reflex.  Did they change the design but keep the tiny field of view 20mm tube?  Forgive me if my remark seems smartass, but the thread is about small reflex sights.  I do like Aimpoint micros, especially the size and lower weight compared to Aimpoint PRO, but not the tunnel vision and limited FOV compared to the open field of a reflex.  Mini reflex sights weigh less than two ounces and only 5 or less with riser and QD mount (depending on riser and mount design).


There is no tunnel vision with both eyes open.  Also, less housing means less obstruction so there is a good FOV


I assume anyone who complains about field of view with a micro is using it wrong.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 4:01:14 PM EDT
Has anyone used the primary arms sight?  I really like the Delta point but its a little pricey for what I had in mind.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 4:44:17 PM EDT
Using a Primary Arms Microdot that rates at 50k hours on an AK-74 and beater AR. Improved the accuracy of both weapons at 100 yards vs standard iron sights.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:18:23 PM EDT
Dupe, see below.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:23:25 PM EDT
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Quoted:
Doesn't seem slower than my PRO to me. Plus I know it will work if the rifle falls off something and lands on the optic. Regarding weight I believe that setup weighs 5.7 ounces.
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Its still not a reflex per OP, nor is it as light, nor does it have a wider, open FOV as the mini reflexes..  I do believe RMR and DeltaPoint Pro are equally rugged.  Why are you trolling OP thread and derailing it?

Aimpoint Micro both eyes open is still 20mm and has lots of hardware blocking FOV.  Reflex sights do not.  Here is a comparson,  and yes, you are obstructed by tube and turrets both eyes open with Aimpoint Micro.  Not saying it is a bad sight.   It has its points, but it loses big time on FOV and is not what we are discussing in this thread.



Link Posted: 4/16/2016 10:31:28 PM EDT
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Quoted:


Its still not a reflex per OP, nor is it as light, nor does it have a wider, open FOV as the mini reflexes..  I do believe RMR and DeltaPoint Pro are equally rugged.  Why are you trolling OP thread and derailing it?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Doesn't seem slower than my PRO to me. Plus I know it will work if the rifle falls off something and lands on the optic. Regarding weight I believe that setup weighs 5.7 ounces.


Its still not a reflex per OP, nor is it as light, nor does it have a wider, open FOV as the mini reflexes..  I do believe RMR and DeltaPoint Pro are equally rugged.  Why are you trolling OP thread and derailing it?


OP never said they were not, if you read the posts by him. The micro series are nice optics for quick shooting, at least dry fire training. I just got my first micro earlier this week and sadly could not shoot it today, so I've been regulated to testing mounting it in various spots and seeing where I like it best. I've found just in front of my rear sight is easiest to pick up quickest. I've tried one eye closed and both open, either works for me.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 11:26:56 PM EDT
1 thing that is important to me is how easy it is to use mt iron sights with the optic mounted on the rifle.  Example: Optic fails, switch to irons is simply flip up rear sight, rock out on the trigger.
Link Posted: 4/16/2016 11:31:08 PM EDT
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Quoted:
1 thing that is important to me is how easy it is to use mt iron sights with the optic mounted on the rifle.  Example: Optic fails, switch to irons is simply flip up rear sight, rock out on the trigger.
View Quote


Shouldn't be a problem with any sight you are considering.  The compact size of a mini reflex might give you more options since so little rail space is used.  I still have three slots behind mine, before the rear sight, even with the reflex set back four slots from the front of the upper.

Link Posted: 4/17/2016 10:00:39 AM EDT
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Quoted:


Its still not a reflex per OP, nor is it as light, nor does it have a wider, open FOV as the mini reflexes..  I do believe RMR and DeltaPoint Pro are equally rugged.  Why are you trolling OP thread and derailing it?

Aimpoint Micro both eyes open is still 20mm and has lots of hardware blocking FOV.  Reflex sights do not.  Here is a comparson,  and yes, you are obstructed by tube and turrets both eyes open with Aimpoint Micro.  Not saying it is a bad sight.   It has its points, but it loses big time on FOV and is not what we are discussing in this thread.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Doesn't seem slower than my PRO to me. Plus I know it will work if the rifle falls off something and lands on the optic. Regarding weight I believe that setup weighs 5.7 ounces.


Its still not a reflex per OP, nor is it as light, nor does it have a wider, open FOV as the mini reflexes..  I do believe RMR and DeltaPoint Pro are equally rugged.  Why are you trolling OP thread and derailing it?

Aimpoint Micro both eyes open is still 20mm and has lots of hardware blocking FOV.  Reflex sights do not.  Here is a comparson,  and yes, you are obstructed by tube and turrets both eyes open with Aimpoint Micro.  Not saying it is a bad sight.   It has its points, but it loses big time on FOV and is not what we are discussing in this thread.


According to Wiki a red dot is a reflective or "reflex" sight. And when you use both eyes open, what one eye misses, the other eye sees. And no a RMR or Delta Point are not as durable as a micro. Please drop one out of a helicopter or hit it with an IED and get back to me.
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 10:18:56 AM EDT
A friend and I did some rough comparisons by shooting the same course of fire at 50m, each with a 1-4x scoped set on minimum mag and then with a dot sight (Eotech in this particular case). Both of us were faster with the Eotech.



I personally prefer MRDS because of the massively reduced sight body clutter in my sight picture. imho the advantage of the the tube type sights is they are less likely to be affected by adverse weather such as heavy rain/snow if this may be an issue where you shoot.




Durability is an issue, but not a major one for me as I don't generally bounce my rifles off hard things. Arguably they have less surface area to catch/snag/bang up against anything if you do like throwing your rifle down the driveway. Incidentally, I once accidentally smacked an ACOG mounted Docter MRDS on a steel girder, with such force that it bent the top of the shroud and chipped the lens, effectively writing the sight off. It still held it's original zero when tested.




The RMR was developed to have increased durability with it's thick shroud, but at the cost of blocking out more of your sight picture. Your choice..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSH7h6ZQbnM




Docter is still my overall favourite..
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 10:58:15 AM EDT
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Quoted:


Shouldn't be a problem with any sight you are considering.  The compact size of a mini reflex might give you more options since so little rail space is used.  I still have three slots behind mine, before the rear sight, even with the reflex set back four slots from the front of the upper.

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/0514B050-37E4-4DD2-B376-2B4A3C46DBFE_zpskh2o0ay2.jpg
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Quoted:
Quoted:
1 thing that is important to me is how easy it is to use mt iron sights with the optic mounted on the rifle.  Example: Optic fails, switch to irons is simply flip up rear sight, rock out on the trigger.


Shouldn't be a problem with any sight you are considering.  The compact size of a mini reflex might give you more options since so little rail space is used.  I still have three slots behind mine, before the rear sight, even with the reflex set back four slots from the front of the upper.

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/0514B050-37E4-4DD2-B376-2B4A3C46DBFE_zpskh2o0ay2.jpg

Hey MS, what kind of rear buis is that? They look so thin...are those m-bus pros?
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 2:46:58 PM EDT
So, I know that the Delta point and others are better than the Primary arms offering, but I want to try this out without spending a bunch.  Has anybody tried the PA one?
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 10:29:24 PM EDT
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Hey MS, what kind of rear buis is that? They look so thin...are those m-bus pros?
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1 thing that is important to me is how easy it is to use mt iron sights with the optic mounted on the rifle.  Example: Optic fails, switch to irons is simply flip up rear sight, rock out on the trigger.


Shouldn't be a problem with any sight you are considering.  The compact size of a mini reflex might give you more options since so little rail space is used.  I still have three slots behind mine, before the rear sight, even with the reflex set back four slots from the front of the upper.

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/0514B050-37E4-4DD2-B376-2B4A3C46DBFE_zpskh2o0ay2.jpg

Hey MS, what kind of rear buis is that? They look so thin...are those m-bus pros?


Yes, MBUS Pro.
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 10:36:48 PM EDT
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So, I know that the Delta point and others are better than the Primary arms offering, but I want to try this out without spending a bunch.  Has anybody tried the PA one?
View Quote


Which PA model are you looking at?  If it is their mini reflex, I would pass.  If budget is an issue the Burris Fastfire III is quite good.  I moved mine to a tactical shotgun after I got the DP Pro for the carbine.  It handles 12 gauge recoil just fine.  Turkey hunters have been using them for years on hard kicking magnum shotguns.  Heck of a well-made reflex.  I just wanted the extra steel hood protection of the DP Pro and its always ready motion activation.

You can pick up the FF3 with riser and rail mount for just over $200 shipped.  Optics Planet is running a 12% off special right now which will bring their goodcprice down even more.  Ime dure other  vendors would be competitive.
Link Posted: 4/17/2016 10:46:58 PM EDT
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According to Wiki a red dot is a reflective or "reflex" sight. And when you use both eyes open, what one eye misses, the other eye sees. And no a RMR or Delta Point are not as durable as a micro. Please drop one out of a helicopter or hit it with an IED and get back to me.
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Doesn't seem slower than my PRO to me. Plus I know it will work if the rifle falls off something and lands on the optic. Regarding weight I believe that setup weighs 5.7 ounces.


Its still not a reflex per OP, nor is it as light, nor does it have a wider, open FOV as the mini reflexes..  I do believe RMR and DeltaPoint Pro are equally rugged.  Why are you trolling OP thread and derailing it?

Aimpoint Micro both eyes open is still 20mm and has lots of hardware blocking FOV.  Reflex sights do not.  Here is a comparson,  and yes, you are obstructed by tube and turrets both eyes open with Aimpoint Micro.  Not saying it is a bad sight.   It has its points, but it loses big time on FOV and is not what we are discussing in this thread.


According to Wiki a red dot is a reflective or "reflex" sight. And when you use both eyes open, what one eye misses, the other eye sees. And no a RMR or Delta Point are not as durable as a micro. Please drop one out of a helicopter or hit it with an IED and get back to me.


How do you know?  The Deltapoint Pro is a finalist in the current DoD optics evaluation trials.  You don't get to that point if not duty grade.  You can call a tube micro a reflex if you want, but we all know what this thread is referring to - screen type small reflex sights with no exposed knobs or turrets and no tube tunnel effect.

I am not knocking the Aimpoint micros.  They are simply apples and oranges for this discussion.

http://soldiersystems.net/2015/11/09/ussocom-evaulates-replacement-for-eotech-sights/
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 2:24:16 AM EDT
I think I'm gonna get a set. I like how low profile they are.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 2:34:39 AM EDT
Double post.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:01:02 PM EDT
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Quoted:


How do you know?  The Deltapoint Pro is a finalist in the current DoD optics evaluation trials.  You don't get to that point if not duty grade.  You can call a tube micro a reflex if you want, but we all know what this thread is referring to - screen type small reflex sights with no exposed knobs or turrets and no tube tunnel effect.

I am not knocking the Aimpoint micros.  They are simply apples and oranges for this discussion.

http://soldiersystems.net/2015/11/09/ussocom-evaulates-replacement-for-eotech-sights/
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Doesn't seem slower than my PRO to me. Plus I know it will work if the rifle falls off something and lands on the optic. Regarding weight I believe that setup weighs 5.7 ounces.


Its still not a reflex per OP, nor is it as light, nor does it have a wider, open FOV as the mini reflexes..  I do believe RMR and DeltaPoint Pro are equally rugged.  Why are you trolling OP thread and derailing it?

Aimpoint Micro both eyes open is still 20mm and has lots of hardware blocking FOV.  Reflex sights do not.  Here is a comparson,  and yes, you are obstructed by tube and turrets both eyes open with Aimpoint Micro.  Not saying it is a bad sight.   It has its points, but it loses big time on FOV and is not what we are discussing in this thread.


According to Wiki a red dot is a reflective or "reflex" sight. And when you use both eyes open, what one eye misses, the other eye sees. And no a RMR or Delta Point are not as durable as a micro. Please drop one out of a helicopter or hit it with an IED and get back to me.


How do you know?  The Deltapoint Pro is a finalist in the current DoD optics evaluation trials.  You don't get to that point if not duty grade.  You can call a tube micro a reflex if you want, but we all know what this thread is referring to - screen type small reflex sights with no exposed knobs or turrets and no tube tunnel effect.

I am not knocking the Aimpoint micros.  They are simply apples and oranges for this discussion.

http://soldiersystems.net/2015/11/09/ussocom-evaulates-replacement-for-eotech-sights/


Yup, I have a couple of the larger aim points, nice stuff.  I was faster with my eotech, really like the delta point but not ready to fork over the $$$ on that right now.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 5:35:00 PM EDT
Money no object, I think the Leupold Delta Point Pro would be my choice to go on a carbine. I like the idea of a less-obstructed FOV, and the motion-activation is a plus too. If I get around to building a lightweight carbine, I would definitely consider a MRDS for it. My Fastfire 3 is a better size for pistol use, but just seems more fragile than the Delta Point.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:15:14 PM EDT
I didn't have a Delta point budget, but may have to just wait a little, going to see if they are in stock locally to eye ball one in person soon.
Link Posted: 4/21/2016 9:25:27 PM EDT
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Money no object, I think the Leupold Delta Point Pro would be my choice to go on a carbine. I like the idea of a less-obstructed FOV, and the motion-activation is a plus too. If I get around to building a lightweight carbine, I would definitely consider a MRDS for it. My Fastfire 3 is a better size for pistol use, but just seems more fragile than the Delta Point.
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if it had NV settings, it would be absolutely perfect.

Alas.
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