Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/3/2005 12:12:25 PM EDT
I'm debating whether I should get a standard A2 because I like open sights on my rifle, or if I should fork out the extra and get an A3 with the RRA tactical handle for optic mounts in the future should I choose to get an aimpoint or something...Im not big on accessories or toys for my toys. Any open sight shooters out there with opinions?
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 12:35:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 12:35:34 PM EDT by FUZ1ON]

Originally Posted By memyselfandi:
I'm debating whether I should get a standard A2 because I like open sights on my rifle, or if I should fork out the extra and get an A3 with the RRA tactical handle for optic mounts in the future should I choose to get an aimpoint or something...Im not big on accessories or toys for my toys. Any open sight shooters out there with opinions?



I'm a big fan of K.I.S.S. when it comes to arms and tac gear....the idea of taking a nice light, fast handling, slick through the bush carbine then railing it out from the stock to the FSB only to mount up every gadget under the sun short of a zippo lighter and alarm clock escapes me...and defeats the whole purpose of selecting a light, fast-handling carbine in the first place.

A2 + ACOG (that can thumbscrew on or off at my discretion) ready for 24/7 day or night patrol/defense....still light...still slick...still fast-handling and for bonus points?...

1. "No Batteries Required"
2. Cost $100 less as compared to A3
3. No need to drop subdtancial $$$ for BUIS...because you got the real deal...A2 Irons...and no wondering if they're still on zero or...playing flip-flop wiggle-wiggle.

Here's mine...



And?...it just my personal preference...the only time I'd opt "Flat-top" would be for a 24" Varminter with a dedicated high end scope. But that's just me.

L8R, Bill.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 12:38:36 PM EDT
I like the way you think. I see you have the mid-length handguards...prefer those over the M4 shorter ones?
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 12:39:53 PM EDT
Very simple solution, get both!
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 12:40:20 PM EDT
I have one removable carry handle rifle and one with a fixed carry handle. In retrospect I wish I had built the removable carry handle job with an A2 upper. Simpler for sure and it suits my needs better.

Cheers,

Phil
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 12:40:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 12:41:57 PM EDT by Stickman]
I think he has the standard carbine handguards that come on the Bushmaster, it doesn't look like midlength ones....


I have little use for the A2, and would rather use the flattop, or an A1 upper. However, as you can see, people have different opinions based off of what their needs are.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 12:43:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
I think he has the standard carbine handguards that come on the Bushmaster, it doesn't look like midlength ones....



Hrmm ok, Im trying to decipher them all...im a noob in case you couldnt tell, starting on my first build. I'm looking at RRAs and they have CAR handguards and R4. Im guessing the CAR handguards are what Im seeing in this pic? And the RRA R4s are their equivalent to M4 handguards?
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 12:45:27 PM EDT

I have little use for the A2, and would rather use the flattop, or an A1 upper. However, as you can see, people have different opinions based off of what their needs are.


What is the difference between A1 and A2 sights?
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 12:58:59 PM EDT
I don't regret my A2 upper decision. But I do want to do a flattop next time. I wanted my first AR to be a KISS rifle, but my next I plan on an M4gery with an Eotech so I'm opting for the flattop.

In my opinion if you are sticking with irons then you might as well go A2 upper. I also like the way the ACOGs look on A2 uppers.

Here is a pic of my A2 RRA carbine.

Link Posted: 9/3/2005 12:59:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By memyselfandi:

I have little use for the A2, and would rather use the flattop, or an A1 upper. However, as you can see, people have different opinions based off of what their needs are.


What is the difference between A1 and A2 sights?




The upper on this one is an A1



The upper on this AR15 is an A2



The upper on this one is an A3


Link Posted: 9/3/2005 1:00:21 PM EDT
I passed up the A3 version for an A2 simply because I personally like idea of having one less part to lose and anything that can be added to the A3 can be adapted to the A2 just the same
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 1:04:05 PM EDT
What I would do is start out with an A2 (or A1 in my case ) and get used to the irons and just have it as a KISS rifle. Then, after a while, get either a flat top upper or rifle. What I'm gonna do is get an A2 (since I have an A1), then get a flat top upper and have that as my "tricked out" one.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 1:07:42 PM EDT
No regrets whatsoever.

But I do have 3 A3 uppers.

Link Posted: 9/3/2005 1:09:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:



I love that combo Stick.......The green and black looks really good together on these two.

Link Posted: 9/3/2005 1:10:40 PM EDT
Stickman: Why do you prefer A1 over A2?
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 1:15:20 PM EDT
http://www.mapartsinc.com/products/22705223430_Pge26-05.gif

Maybe this tatical upper is the best combination. A permanent fixed rear sight and a solid mounting rail before rear sight for optics/scopes. Seems like only M&A offer it.

http://www.mapartsinc.com/productsDetail.asp?id=483

I like shooting iron sight and would rather a permanent fixed one instead of a removable one. But I also want a stable platform to mount standard size scopes as well. My impression is the A2 handle does not provide a stable mounting unless mini scopes and will be sitting too high.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 1:29:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 1:30:14 PM EDT by memyselfandi]
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a30/LonghornAR15/Guns.jpg

Is that RRA mid length or CAR handguards?



BTW a friend is trying to convince me to get a full size service rifle. I like the way they look but I dont think I want such a long rifle.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:09:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By memyselfandi:
i8.photobucket.com/albums/a30/LonghornAR15/Guns.jpg

Is that RRA mid length or CAR handguards?



BTW a friend is trying to convince me to get a full size service rifle. I like the way they look but I dont think I want such a long rifle.


Those are CAR handguards. And the 20" rifle is MUCH smaller than you think...it's not like an SkS or something. ARs are pretty much small weapons.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:11:57 PM EDT
You make an excellent point. I have some of both but was amazed when I gook my Carbine with the A3 upper and installed a Surefire M500A, a ACOG and backup rear sight at the wight gain and the degraded handing. Big difference when compared to my completely stock Bushmaster A2 with the 14.5 inch barrel.

All the "accessories" have their place I suppose but you just can't beat the good handling qualities of a stock Carbine with A2 upper.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:25:59 PM EDT
To answer the original question, no I do not regret getting A2 upper receivers. I am old school though.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 2:54:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By memyselfandi:
i8.photobucket.com/albums/a30/LonghornAR15/Guns.jpg

Is that RRA mid length or CAR handguards?



BTW a friend is trying to convince me to get a full size service rifle. I like the way they look but I dont think I want such a long rifle.



They are CAR handguards as was mentioned already. It's just a regular 'ol 16" carbine. About as plain jane as they come......only a hogue grip added.......and that's how it's going to stay. It's my first and I don't plan on ever letting it go or making any changes to it other than possibly adding an ACOG one day......but an A3 M4gery with Eotech will happen before the ACOG on this one.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 3:06:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HankC:
www.mapartsinc.com/products/22705223430_Pge26-05.gif

Maybe this tatical upper is the best combination. A permanent fixed rear sight and a solid mounting rail before rear sight for optics/scopes. Seems like only M&A offer it.

http://www.mapartsinc.com/productsDetail.asp?id=483

I like shooting iron sight and would rather a permanent fixed one instead of a removable one. But I also want a stable platform to mount standard size scopes as well. My impression is the A2 handle does not provide a stable mounting unless mini scopes and will be sitting too high.



I've got one of these, mine is the RRA UTE upper, but it looks identical. I like it, although many don't because with standard mounts the optics won't co-witness with the irons. With quick release mounts I don't see this as being a problem and I'fe found the solid iron sights to be superior to folding, removable irons.

I've also got an A2 rifle and I don't regret buying it for a heartbeat, it's one of the most successful rifles of all times, and there's a reason for it, it's just a very good all around rifle. A "rifleman's rifle" if you will. Also, for me, a tall person with a long neck and big head, carry handle mounted optics are fine.

I've also got a flattop carbine, and while it's probably the most versatile of the three, finding the exact setup that's right is more expensive, time consuming and may prove to be less durable than the others. I also find that I use it less than the other two.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 3:10:22 PM EDT
I've no regrets



Taffy
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 3:21:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wetterman:
Stickman: Why do you prefer A1 over A2?



I am not stickman, I'm sure he'll tell you what his reasons are. But, I too like the A1 over the A2. My reason is that I was never in the military, and for me, trying to remember what all the clicks on the drum represent just makes it that much more complicated (I like to set it and forget it). I do not shoot much past 100-150yds with my 16" bushy either so in my opinion, there is no need to have the extra features of the A2 drum. If you like the big hole apature on the A2, you can swap it on to the A1. Some like the big hole and some dont, I do, it is easier for me to get quick site picture with the big hole as opposed to the small hole.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 3:57:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By memyselfandi:

I have little use for the A2, and would rather use the flattop, or an A1 upper. However, as you can see, people have different opinions based off of what their needs are.


What is the difference between A1 and A2 sights?



A1 rear sight has adjustment for windage (left/ right) only. The A1 rear sight originated with the M16 and M16A1. The flip rear sight aperature range settings are: Normal - 0-300 meters, Long - 300-500 meters.

A2 rear sight has adjustments for windage (left/ right) and elevation (up/ down). It also has a rear flip sight aperature similar to the A1. The A2 elevation adjustment is there primarily for distance changes. Once you "zero" your front and rear sights at the appropriate distance, you can make the changes for increased or decreased distance just using your rear sight by turning large horizontal dial clockwise or counterclockwise depending on the setting you need. With the A1, you changed your sight picture to compensate for the distance. By this I mean locating your sights at different positions on your targets. For example, when I was in the USMC (a long time ago), at 300 meters we aimed at center mass; 200 meters - 6 o'clock; 500 meters - neck and shoulders.

In regard to the rear flip sight aperature, most cases the longe range setting is the only one used. I have personally never used the short (normal) range aperature.

I hope that this helped. Some of the information on the A1 was taken from my USMC Parris Island Recruit Depot (Boot Camp) notes that were taken back on July 8, 1978.

Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:05:44 PM EDT
I have a 20" colt fixed handle, it's what I wanted and I don't regret it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 4:29:13 PM EDT
I like the A2 and using the iron sites.

i dont have any regrets.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 5:20:09 PM EDT
Do like I did and get the A2 , then for your next one get an A3 , oh you do know there will be a next one and a next one and so on as BRD sets in ,lol.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 8:00:58 PM EDT
I have no regrets choosing the A2.
I am not military or LEO.
IMHO, the AR15 can get it done with irons only.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 8:06:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wetterman:
Stickman: Why do you prefer A1 over A2?



No way anything is going to get knocked out of adjustment with an A1. I've no need for moving my rear sight that much, and it is a more streamlined receiver.

I confess that I usually replace the aperature of the A1, with its A2 sibling.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 8:11:14 PM EDT
I can honestly say that I have regretted any A2 uppers or complete rifles that I've ever bought. For those K.I.S.S. fans, just buy a flat top with a removeable carry handle. That way you can have your iron sights and carry handle, plus have the ability to mount an optic for special situations. They only thing you'll lose is a little bit of elevation adjustment with the detachable carry handle.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 8:17:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M4Madness:
I can honestly say that I have regretted any A2 uppers or complete rifles that I've ever bought. For those K.I.S.S. fans, just buy a flat top with a removeable carry handle. That way you can have your iron sights and carry handle, plus have the ability to mount an optic for special situations. They only thing you'll lose is a little bit of elevation adjustment with the detachable carry handle.[/quote

Are the "A3" detachable CH irons just as good as those on the the A2?
I have never seen that question answered with authority.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 8:31:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2005 8:31:54 PM EDT by Nmbmxer]
I also started with an A2 and swapped it out. My rifle serves two purposes, first is a cmp service rifle, and second its my groundhog/coyote rifle. I had a scope mounted with an arms ch mount, but it wouldn’t repeat zero when I removed the mount, I ended up bedding it to the ch to reduce some wobble. I hated the dark sight picture I got with irons having from having to look through the tunnel and the scope was too high to shoot low prone. I ended up buying the tools and an A3 and swapping upper receivers. I can now remove the high powered varmit scope and put a dch on for matches. You lose some elevation with a dch but some quick work with a mill can let you have the same elevation adjustment as an A2. Unless you want to shoot at 500 or so yards or more, a standard dch is fine.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 8:34:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wes15a2:
Are the "A3" detachable CH irons just as good as those on the the A2?



They are the same, except that the fixed A2 carry handles have elevation adjustment to 800 meters, while the detachable carry handle only goes to 600.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 9:48:19 PM EDT
I sort of regret NOT getting an A2 upper. I love the simplicity of an A2 upper. It looks awesome to.

I had planned on getting a good red-dot ASAP....almost a year later I still have just a flip up YHM sight. Looks retarded. I think I will be getting an Eotech for Xmas so hopefully it will look better then.

My next build is definetly going to be a midlength A2.
Link Posted: 9/3/2005 11:58:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Blanco_Diablo:

Originally Posted By memyselfandi:
i8.photobucket.com/albums/a30/LonghornAR15/Guns.jpg

Is that RRA mid length or CAR handguards?



BTW a friend is trying to convince me to get a full size service rifle. I like the way they look but I dont think I want such a long rifle.


Those are CAR handguards. And the 20" rifle is MUCH smaller than you think...it's not like an SkS or something. ARs are pretty much small weapons.



I agree. It's really not a "long rifle" after awhile. When I handle mine, it doesnt feel overly long. If it were say 24" or more, then it'd feel weird.

To each his own, but I like my 20" A2
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 12:18:20 AM EDT
My rifle started out with an A1 upper. When I saw an A2 for sale at a gun show, I quickly grabbed it because, 1) it was a new design then, and 2) i liked the fact that the rear sight had an elevation adjustment. When the flat-tops became available, I thought they were way "cooler" than the A2's and just had to get me one of them! (Plus the fact that it was more "flexible" to your needs in terms of mounting and optics selection.) So I sold my A2 and got a flat top and a removable carry handle.

Now I "miss" my A2. All things being equal with an A3 in terms of functionality, I do miss the simple / sleek design of the A2. It has its own aesthetic charm.



So in true ARFCOM fashion my advise is ........ get both types.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 12:21:39 AM EDT
till the other day all my ar's had flattops.........

<­BR>



stickman's pics have changed me, i now own my first a1 upper'ed rifle........a 6450. have to say it was fun as heck to shoot with irons and the a1 is much cleaner looking than the a2.


my next build will consist of the a1 upper but no need to change over what i already have just gonna add more.



get both!
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 12:32:28 AM EDT
I prefer A1 to A2. In fact, the only way I will ever have an A2 is if I take up Service Rifle shooting.

Link Posted: 9/4/2005 12:58:50 AM EDT
I got an A-2 and love it.
A while after I got it I started admiring the flat top, so bascially I decided that will be the next one I get.

Variety is the spice of life!
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 1:22:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2005 1:51:28 AM EDT by Combat_Diver]
I started with a XM177E1 copy with the A1 fixed upper (personal gun). It served me great for years for I never engaged past 100m with it. My lower now has a A3 upper with a Aimpoint M2 and BUIS. It also serves my needs.
In the service started with the XM16E1 and have been using a M16A2 or M4 with detachable handle since 87' and never change my elevation knob til last year when I shot my M4 with irons out to 500 yds repeatedly. Take that back did do a few Known Distance ranges out to 600yds when we first got the A2s.
If all you do is shoot under 300yds/meters on a range then I believe all you need is the fixed carrying handle. If you ever want to mount optics you're better off with a flat top with detachable irons. Personally I don't like optics on top of the carrying handle for its too high for my tastes. By the way I've carried both in deserts, mountains, airborne ops, maritime operations, urban warfare and desert war, both work!

A flat top also gives you more options mounting Night Vision scopes.

CD
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 4:44:14 AM EDT
My Bushmaster A2 upper cost like $150 or $160 for just the upper receiver. My CMT flat-top upper receiver was only $95.00.

Sure putting stuff on it cost more, but the receiver itself is less money, not more.
Link Posted: 9/4/2005 5:58:33 AM EDT

The stock answer would be get both...and honestly you could get two uppers and swap them out depending on what kind of mood you are in.


I can honestly say that I have regretted any A2 uppers or complete rifles that I've ever bought. For those K.I.S.S. fans, just buy a flat top with a removeable carry handle. That way you can have your iron sights and carry handle, plus have the ability to mount an optic for special situations.


+1

Being your first AR, I would recommend the flattop w/ a detachable carry handle. Right now you don't really know what you want...hence the question you asked. Any quality CH will stay solid and should not come loose. If you decide that irons are the only way to go, you can always put a spot of lock-tite on it to make sure it doesn't go anywhere. BUT...I can pretty much guarantee that once you start shooting and looking at options other than irons you will want to put something other than irons on your rifle. It's called BRD (Black Rifle Disease) and it is unstoppable.

Top Top