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Posted: 4/22/2004 8:55:56 PM EDT
[#1]
I've been really impressed with this stuff too. I'm getting the same accuracy as you and they work good on ground squirrels.
Consider this, if I were to buy brand new brass and reload some varmint rounds it would cost about the same as these allready manufactured. Brass- $.14 Powder-$.08 Primer-$.01 Bullet-$.08 at least total- $.31 per round Winchester 45gr- ~$.30 My problem is that I've got a pile of brass and I could save a lot making my own. But it's too easy to just pick them up at Walmart especially when they shoot so good. 
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Posted: 4/23/2004 8:55:23 AM EDT
[#2]
Cost for reloading:
brass .00 primer .0145 bullet .04851 powder .028125 Total cost to reload 9.1 cents per round Winchester 30 cents per round bullet $48.51 per 1,000 www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/607652 primer $14.50 per 1,000 powdervalleyinc.com/WINprimers.shtml powder $63.00 for 8 lbs Accurate powdervalleyinc.com/accurate.shtml |
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Posted: 4/23/2004 9:30:21 AM EDT
[#3]
Yeah but what are they using for this round? What components?
Also, I thought my 1:9 twist was designed to shoot 62 gr. best...so why won't it shoot the 55 gr Federal, but shoot the 45 gr win. so well? |
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Posted: 4/23/2004 10:02:51 AM EDT
[#4]
i recomend to all to shoot a 45gr jhp at a full pop can... it completely inverts the can... its fun
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Posted: 4/23/2004 10:44:51 AM EDT
[#5]
maybe I got a bad batch, but the Win 45gr varmit shot really bad in my guns...I didn't pay attention to accuaracy but I felt a burning spray and looked and the cases were popping at the bottom right before it tapers down. This happened in my Mini-14 and AR....though the ones that did shoot fine, made that milk jug full of water think twice.
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Posted: 4/23/2004 11:03:47 AM EDT
[#6]
I sorry but I don't get near these prices were I live. There are a few things you aren't considering either. Don't forget shipping and hazmat fees. Although it would probably work fine, the 55gr SP is not very comparable to a JHP varmint round. Your getting brand new brass when you buy the complete cartridges, so if you are going to compare you have to consider the initial cost of brass (or at least divide it out over how many loads you can get out of it). For a quality varmint round using used brass It would practically cost me about $.16 per round. I use Alliant RLDR15 and Hornady EX bullets. Including shipping costs (including shipping and hazmat yours would run about $.12 per round, not including brass). widmn, the reason you are seeing better groups with 45gr JHP than 55gr FMJ? is bullet construction, and possibsibly more consistent powder charge. The JHP is constructed in a way that makes the bullet more uniform and consistent which gives you much better accuracy, and because winchester is marketing these as varmint rounds they might be making sure the powder charges are more consistent. |
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Posted: 4/23/2004 11:09:06 AM EDT
[#7]
Now that's just wierd, I've never had a malfunction of any kind shooting this stuff, and I've gone through quite a bit of it. I wouldn't expect it to shoot well though the Mini  , but the Ar should be fine .
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Posted: 4/23/2004 11:12:44 AM EDT
[#8]
Are pretty much all JHP made in a way that makes them more accurate? If so, I will stick to those when I start reloading. Can you recommend a brand of JHP or others that I should start with?
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Posted: 4/23/2004 1:17:53 PM EDT
[#9]
I believe so.
I really like Hornady and Sierra bullets. I get very good results with. For General target shooting and otherwise: Horn 68gr BTHP, and SMK 69gr BTHP For varmints I like: 52gr SMK (these are match bullets but work very well on varmints, thier might be better but I got a lot of these on sale and they are very accurate). I'll be trying some Hornady 55gr SX soon (super explosive) these sound pretty awesome. |
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Posted: 4/25/2004 12:25:23 PM EDT
[#10]
I agree,I have tried many types of ammo in my bushmasters,superlight,14" W/ak,and 20"(all 3 are 1/9 twist) Some of the Black Hills shoot ok to good and some factory stuff is pretty good but nothing really beats the Wall Mart Varmit. I have not shot any furry things with it but it tears up pumpkins better than anything short of .22-250. Military 55GR will only poke a pencil hole in a punkin,Varmit tears them up good.I have got to believe it would work fine on Varmits.(all types and leg counts)
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Posted: 4/25/2004 3:26:39 PM EDT
[#11]
These have worked well for me as well. I have seen bad batches of this stuff though. I have seen crimps which look like coke bottle top crimps. Better looking lots have been a bargin. I posted some lot#'s a while back but do not have that info handy. When buying this stuff, I look at it. Stuff looking good has shot 3/4 to 1" at 100 in a rifle which shoots other factory loads more consistantly 3/4". Component info I do not have. Excellent 223 stuff is cheap and reliable at low cost.
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Posted: 4/25/2004 7:04:39 PM EDT
[#12]
I too have had good results with this load. 3/4" groups are the norm out of my colt with a 1 in 9, 20 inch barrel.
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Posted: 4/26/2004 8:56:40 AM EDT
[#13]
I don't know what bullet they use, or where it comes from since I haven't been able to find any from suppliers. They are accurate though. They ought to be able to be handloaded for less than commercial cost, but the savings isn't a lot if you don't already own the equipment.
Hornady 40 grain V-Max bullets - $22.95 for 200 Winchester new brass 223 Rem - $107.79 for 1000 Commercial Powder H335 - $16 per # Primers - $2 per 100 (prices from MidwayUSA.com) Total comes out to about 23 cents per round if you load your brass 4 times. 12/40 = 30 cents per round, so a savings of 7 cents per shot can add up, but not necessairly pay for much new equipment. You will get better accuracy though from handloads. I get about 1 MOA accuracy from WW 45 JHP ammo, but about .75 MOA from handloads, fired in a standard Bushmaster A3 rifle. |
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Posted: 4/26/2004 12:44:39 PM EDT
[#14]
It shoot well out of my Bush Varminter, I can call my shots. bullet placement is very consistant.
I have shot several 3 round 1/2 groups, but the real fun is out shooting my competitive brother blasting birds @ 100 plus yards with shooting sticks. It took 150 rounds of barrel break in before it really starting shooting consistant |
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Posted: 4/27/2004 7:33:28 AM EDT
[#15]
I was able to get 3/4 groups@100 as well from my Bushy. Great stuff for the price.
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Posted: 4/28/2004 11:26:52 AM EDT
[#16]
Potential Problems with these rounds ?
1. Weak non-heat treated necks, not crimped, so potential bullet setback & creating over pressure. 2. Crimped, sharp hollow point tip edges, may/can catch on feed ramp & cause feeding problem. These rounds are great for bolt actions, but ARs fast feeding bolts.... Anyone had any of the problems mentioned above ? |
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Posted: 4/28/2004 12:17:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Whadda trying to do? Cause a flame? This stuff is so great I could do a Winchester ad for it. Today I was shooting 1/2" to 3/4" groups at 100yds with a 16" bull barrel, DPms lower and oly upper. I think much of that is my poor shooting technique. I can't believe the accuracy. No feed problems or anything else. |
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Posted: 4/28/2004 8:21:48 PM EDT
[#18]
This is the round that new-arguy shot the first of his MOA 300yd groups with out of his M4gery
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Posted: 4/29/2004 7:16:11 AM EDT
[#19]
Went squirrel hunting with it last weekend.
I'll tell you one thing. The ground squirrels sure don't like this stuff. Anybody want to see the video. SPLAT! |
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Posted: 4/29/2004 10:06:38 AM EDT
[#20]
I do, I do!!
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Posted: 5/4/2004 1:07:42 AM EDT
[#21]
I've noticed that this stuff is accurate, too. Probably the most accurate mass-produced, available-just-about-anywhere ammo.
I wish Winchester made a 55-grain or 62-grain version of this bullet. Their FMJ stuff isn't anywhere near this accurate. Here are the things I don't like about this ammo: It does not chrono anywhere near the "3600 fps" claimed on the box. More like ~3000 fps from a 16" barrel. I have very conservative 55-grain handloads that do 2900 with a heavier bullet. The stuff does not make minor power factor for USPSA 3-gun matches. At least not from a 16" barrel. If it did, I wouldn't use anything else. The 45 grain bullets have a poor BC, run out of steam rather quickly, and have a rainbow-like trajectory at longer ranges. Bullet drop @200 meters (when sighted in at 100 yards) is 17 1/4 MOA clicks, or 4.25 MOA, or ~8.5 inches. The good news is that once you have it "dialed in", you can nail stuff all day. |
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Posted: 5/4/2004 4:35:56 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
It does not chrono anywhere near the "3600 fps" claimed on the box. More like ~3000 fps from a 16" barrel. I have very conservative 55-grain handloads that do 2900 with a heavier bullet. The stuff does not make minor power factor for USPSA 3-gun matches. At least not from a 16" barrel. If it did, I wouldn't use anything else.  |
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Posted: 5/4/2004 5:35:11 AM EDT
[#23]
With tax, it's more like $.32/rd -- probably even more than that. I think it's $12-something / box.
Anyone tried the Wolf JHP from Ammoman? $.13/rd... Mike |
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Posted: 5/4/2004 7:39:06 AM EDT
[#24]
Yes, the difference in accuracy is almost as unbelievable as the difference in price! If you are looking to hit a 3 inch target at 200 yards, stick to the Winchester JHP. If you are trying to hit a 6 inch target at 50 yards, blast away with the Wolf. Both rounds have their uses. |
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Posted: 5/4/2004 8:01:08 AM EDT
[#25]
Ya, I would let you know how it performed on ground squirrels but I could never hit any with it. Wolf JHP is no varmint round. It's good for shooting milk jugs. (I'm still working on my vid, having hosting problems) |
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Posted: 5/8/2004 5:18:17 PM EDT
[#26]
I tried it today and was very pleased. The only problem I have with it is it's very dirty compared to the blue box Black Hills 40gr ammo I normally use in my Bushmaster Varminter. I was getting 1/2" to 3/4" 5 shot groups for the first 25 shots, then it opens up giving 1" to 1-1/2" groups until I clean the bore.
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Posted: 5/8/2004 10:55:22 PM EDT
[#27]
I've been shooting this stuff for years (ever since I got my AR). It has always been the most accurate round, no matter what I tried, including Black Hills. Always 1 MOA or much less. The only problem I've ever had with it is it has a tendency to jam with the Colt 20 round magazines. Feeds great out of everything else into my DPMS. Go figure. And it is kinda pricey compared with some other stuff out there, but it is so much more accurate it more than makes up for it.
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