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Posted: 8/27/2004 8:05:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 8:06:45 AM EST by Irishfly]
Anybody else use a regular old Surefire 6P as a weapon light? I have one mounted on my Ruger KAC556 and I am thinking about doing the same to my OLY 9mm when it comes in next week. I don't ever see much written up about it but just used some 1" rings I had laying around and put it on a GGG 90degree mount off of my Ultimak rail (on the Ruger). Planning on doing it again to my FIRSH handguards (on the Oly). Seems like this is one of the cheapest ways to put together a weapon light system. Am I missing something or should I be buying $500 lights for my carbines??
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 9:09:33 AM EST
I would hope your not missing something since I am doing the same thing . I have mine mounted in a TDI mount from Brightflashlights over in the industry section onto a set of YHM handgaurds that I also purchased from Brightflashlights . Soon I will be upgrading it with a tape switch and a shock isolation bezel but with all this the cost is still lower than most dedicated weapons lights . This is just an around the house personal protection weapon so it does what I want it to if I was running ops in the desert then I would spend the extra money on a weapons light .
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 9:30:01 AM EST
Shock bezel should keep a 6P running for a single engagement. If you're going to do anything more (daily live fire with the light mounted), it's time to move up to a weaponlight.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 9:37:52 AM EST
Aha! thats what its about- the shock? I hadn't thought of that. After reading all of the "dropped my Surefire out of a C-130 at 25,000 feet onto a solid stainless steel plate whereupon it was run over by an Abrams tank before the flood submerged it 50 feet and when I finally dried it out it worked fine" posts I didn't think that recoil would bother it much. I had a First Samco detachable mount which loosened up and let the light fall out but have since replaced that with a 1" screwdown weaver scope mount. I put about 300 rounds through the AC556 with it, most of which on full auto and it still works so far. In all seriousness, should I worry about ruining my good tactical light by continued use on my weapon? That was something I didn't consider. Thanks for the input.

Link Posted: 8/27/2004 9:41:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 10:15:21 AM EST
Not trying to downplay a cost effective alternative to a weaponlight (or should I say dedicated weaponlight - a flashlight that has been specifically designed for a weapons platform, such as a forearm light for a specific firearm or a light designed for attachment to a rail on a firearm). I am simply not a fan of rigging gear to work when I can purchase something designed for the job. I've been through enough 100mph tape and 550 cord to know that rigged items can and do work. The description of the flashlight you've described (as upgraded) sounds like it's up to the task.

I understand how hard it can be to justify a dedicated weaponlight's cost when it's not part of your job or doesn't mean the difference between life and death. I am no physicist and cannot explain the difference between the physical shock sustained by a weaponlight dropped out of a C130 and the shock produced by a firearm.

What I do know is there are some very creative, cost effective solutions to having a light mounted on your firearm (many of them listed in this forum). Personally the M500 series seems to do it for me since I have no need for rails and I don't like a vertical foregrip. I've also had issues with taped/velcroed pressure pads as well as flashlights in 1" rings rigged for an AR platform (on one rig I saw, the owner said "all you have to do is to turn the tailcap just right so when you tap the tail end with your index finger, the light stays on" . . . not my choice for reliability).

Since I don't have the money or resources to conduct the testing and research that weaponlight companies have conducted, I've taken the word of other shooters that have utilized dedicated weaponlights to make my decision. Otherwise, I'll have to trust Surefire's engineers as to what's been designed for attachment for weapons or not.

I do like to hear about homemade rigs that work (which is why I hang out around here), and I'm more than happy to know that your system has sustained 1000s of rounds while mounted with no adverse affects.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that my previous post was simply my opinion on what I would do if I had a rigged light system attached to my personal firearm. YMMV.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 10:36:48 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 10:40:42 AM EST
Anytime. I just hate leaving muddy water behind :).
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 11:06:03 AM EST
"dropped my Surefire out of a C-130 at 25,000 feet onto a solid stainless steel plate whereupon it was run over by an Abrams tank before the flood submerged it 50 feet and when I finally dried it out it worked fine" was tongue in cheek humor Thanks for your input bud.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 11:47:11 AM EST
Whew . . . thought I missed a real good story. Sometimes you have to give the benefit of the doubt to a story (I recall one incident where I thought, "that's impossible!" and then the recording of the incident surfaces . . .).
Link Posted: 8/28/2004 7:03:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/28/2004 7:06:04 PM EST by fight4yourrights]

Originally Posted By BookHound:


Why? Not flamming, I'm really curious what you mean by "weaponlight." I thought a G2 with the Z32 shock isolated bezel AND a shock isolated battery stick would bring a G2 up to a "weapons-grade" light. Is this not correct?.




NO, it won't.


The weapons lights have a ridge the physically blocks the batteries from intruding into the lamp area.

A shock isolated battery stick is just 2 batteries wired together, and shrink wrapped. They move as one unit.

I have pictures showing all of this at Pennsylvania AR-15 Shooters Site - Light Reviews

battery stick (shrink wrap cut by accident):



Z32 anti-shock bezel:




Weapons light -vs- 6P

Link Posted: 8/29/2004 3:14:43 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 4:26:42 AM EST
Quite informative. Now what exactly happens when you take an unmodified flashlight, duct tape/mount/tie it onto a rifle or shotgun, and run a few thousand rounds through? Just curiosity at this point . . .
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 4:46:17 AM EST
Wow, great info Fight. Thanks so much for the informative post. Guess I will be shopping again. Thats why I come to this site- someone always has the informative answer. Kuo- as to how long it will last? or what happens to it? I will let you know. Going to shoot it till it fails on .223 and 9mm and we will see. Seems to me that they would be better served by making all of their flashlights with the little ridge on the inside. But then again, they have got to sell me more flashlights right?

Debo
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 6:26:00 AM EST
When you've tried and destroyed enough of them, you're not just a customer. You're a researcher that *pays* them to improve their products .
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 8:27:08 AM EST
You guys are welcome.

Make sure you check out the link, I've got more pictures, including showing and discussing the difference between the standard and high output bulbs.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 5:48:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 7:07:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By BrightFlashlights:

Originally Posted By kuo34:
Quite informative. Now what exactly happens when you take an unmodified flashlight, duct tape/mount/tie it onto a rifle or shotgun, and run a few thousand rounds through? Just curiosity at this point . . .



On a lower recoil rifle like an AR you may get by for a good little while w/out any problems but if you put it on a shotgun or something like an M14 and the lamp probably won't last very long at all.



I have thousands of rounds through an AR with a G2 with no problems.

I would venture a guess that the G2 in the map pocket in my car door takes more shock from the door closing 20 times a day than several years mounted on an AR.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 7:14:19 PM EST

Originally Posted By triburst1:


I would venture a guess that the G2 in the map pocket in my car door takes more shock from the door closing 20 times a day than several years mounted on an AR.




But the bulb isn't lit when it's in the car door.


A wire, such as the bulb filament, is weaker when it's heated - when it's ON.

I have fired about 50 shots with a stock 6P with the light on with no failure, FWIW
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 9:18:36 PM EST
I use a 6p with a kl3 led conversion head with a first samco surefire mount, looks and works great
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:30:51 PM EST
Hey Lonewolf. Did your 6P slip inside of your Samco mount. Mine did and fell out of the front while I was firing. That is why I hard mounted it with Weaver rings. I am starting to think that the Samco mount was made for the Nitrolon as the little pads seem to match up with the waffle pattern on the nitrolon but don't have one to compare it to.

Debo
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:28:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By Irishfly:
Hey Lonewolf. Did your 6P slip inside of your Samco mount. Mine did and fell out of the front while I was firing. That is why I hard mounted it with Weaver rings. I am starting to think that the Samco mount was made for the Nitrolon as the little pads seem to match up with the waffle pattern on the nitrolon but don't have one to compare it to.

Debo




No, you just have to really crank down the screw.

Some tape on the body doesn't hurt either.

Link Posted: 9/2/2004 8:43:09 PM EST
Irishfly i have the surefire on/off end cap on the 6p its slightly larger in diameter than the samco mount ,so it can't slip out. the cap also adds a little length to the light also
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 5:23:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 7:52:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/3/2004 8:28:38 AM EST by blikbok]
I'd only use an improvised mount for the amount of time it took to ship me a dedicated light.

fight4yourrights:

Thanks for the picture of the battery retainer ring. I've tried to explain it before and failed. Also, there is a reason they shrink-wrap the cells together into battery sticks.

Link Posted: 9/4/2004 5:20:14 AM EST
A dedicated weaponslight is realy worth the extra money. I own 2 dedicated surefire weaponslights and have zero trouble with them at all. I just count the extra money towards the added piece of mind I get from knowing it will work.
Link Posted: 9/9/2004 3:23:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By Irishfly:
Hey Lonewolf. Did your 6P slip inside of your Samco mount. Mine did and fell out of the front while I was firing. That is why I hard mounted it with Weaver rings. I am starting to think that the Samco mount was made for the Nitrolon as the little pads seem to match up with the waffle pattern on the nitrolon but don't have one to compare it to.

Debo




No, you just have to really crank down the screw.

Some tape on the body doesn't hurt either.

photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=16627




Had the smae problem. The SAMCO mount doesn't grip the 6p, does fine with a G2 though.
Link Posted: 9/14/2004 6:41:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/22/2004 10:25:41 PM EST by leadfoot]
I use a 6P with the shock bezel and click-on tail cap for my recently purchased pistol carbine. Since this is my fun / range gun I haven't had any problems with this configuration. It also gets used more than my M900 on my Colt M4. Both lights work well but sometimes you do get what you pay for. Sometimes.
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