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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/23/2003 11:10:21 AM EDT
I ask this because most of the talk I see about ACOG's pertain to the full size units and not the compact ones. I know the magnification on the full sizers is an advantage for those "hard to reach" targets but is this more of a far fetched precaution for most or is it just preference to get the full size? I am about to start biulding my first AR and on my list of to-buys, is an ACOG but I have gone from the NSN, the the TA31, and now I am wondering why most of the info I have seen posted is on the full size and not the compact units. Thanks for the info in advanced.
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 11:19:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2003 6:53:21 AM EDT by Forest]
I love my Compact ACOG - TA50-2 (3x with amber triangle reticule). Works fine out to any range I'm interested in shooting at, has BAC, and is lighter/smaller than its full size brothers. Only issue I have with it is the mount is lacking. At least with the full size ACOG you can use an ARMS #19 (which is a bit low for the compact ACOG). Great scope - only one to get IMHO if you have an AR with fixed carry handle.
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 11:32:02 AM EDT
Just thought of another 'issue' with the TA50s and that is short eye relief. There are several ways to deal with it. Use a shorter stock. I use a 'Stubby Stock' with a buttplate that adds about an 1" (+). It gives me good eye relief with the scope while allowing me to have my ARMS#40 all the way to the rear. On a flattop mount the scope all the way to the rear. This is usefull if you're using a full size stock like the A1 or longer A2 stock. With an A1 stock I can use the scope when its mounted in front of a ARMS#40 (folded) but its more comfortable when its all the way to the rear. For a carry handle mounted TA50-2 you can drill another hole in the carry handle a bit further back (thank to Paul for this tip). That does the same thing as moving the scope to the rear.
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 12:10:39 PM EDT
I have a compact ACOG on my AR15 carbine and really like it. My AR15 is a flat top, so mounting it wasn't an issue. It's 3X power is a great compromise - most of the advantages of an Eotech/Aimpoint plus magnification of a scope. Even with my feeble eyes, good enough to consistently hit silhoutes (sp?)/gallon milk jugs at 200 yards. The compacts have the added advantage of being light, compact (duh) and cheaper than the full size ones. To me the only draw back is very short eye relief. Not really an issue on the AR15, but I would think twice about using this scope with an AR10, FAL or other .308
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 2:24:30 PM EDT
IMHO Compact ACOG is hands down the BEST optic for mounting on the carry handle.
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 6:39:13 PM EDT
i agree, if you are deticated to the carry handle then a compact acog is the only way to go. i have a TA45-6, 1.5x24, 1.5x with 3.6" of relief. the eye relief is great but you need to flat top mount it then it needs to be up off the rail. i had it mounted to a ARMS 19S on a ARMS 38 rail to get the front sight post to be out of the FOV. another issue with the 1.5x24 series scopes is that the eye relief is not very forgiving, you need to be with in about .5" of the sweet spot to keep your FOV. otherwise the image is affected by blacking out and you see the inside of the scope.
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 7:51:59 PM EDT
I tried the fullsize scopes, a 2x compact and then finally a 3x compact scope. I like the way the compact scope becomes a part of the rifle rather than something hung off of it. I'm a real fan of light and fast handling weapons. The ACOG sits on my designated riflemen's weapon. I did indeed drill another hole about 1.25 inches further aft on the carry handle to mount the little scope close enough to just tilt my head up from the irons and continue with the glass. [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=11624[/img]
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 8:08:36 PM EDT
I like them a lot. At the moment that are probably one of my favorite optics. Everyone knows I like my TA31 best, but my Compact ACOG is not far behind. It works especially well on my lightweight gun. In addition to everything everyone has said, they are very light weight optics! Mine is the 2x with the amber triangle. I probably would have prefferd the red reticle, but I got this on a good deal and I rarely, if ever, see red triangle Comp ACOGs for sale? I agree with everyone that the Comp ACOGs just sort of meld into the carry hangle. And whats even better, you retain the use of your iron sights. [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid71/pd0d726c5603487d91e001c805e494843/fb86f0fc.jpg[/img] (Not me, but that is my rifle)
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 10:28:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2003 10:30:31 PM EDT by NYPatriot]
New-arguy & Paul, do you guys have any problems establishing a proper cheek weld when using your compact ACOGS atop the carrying handle?
Link Posted: 10/23/2003 11:23:08 PM EDT
I love them. This is a perfect application for one - a lightweight rig. This is a special ring version with high mount, 1.5x16 w/crosshair. Very quick acquisition due to low power, long eye relief. You see how far forward it's mounted, and I don't even nose-to-charging-handle. Now it sits on one of my father's bolt action rifles cause he hates traditional scopes, and fell in love with my compact ACOG. Wish I had a pic of that, it's very unusual to see... [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=17021[/img]
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 2:02:01 AM EDT
THANKYOU all very much. Now the ACOG will be going on a CAR A4 upper/M4 postban stock and I was planning on an ARMS 19S for the mount and a #40 rear site. With this setup should I be looking for something to raise the ACOG up higher off the rifle or is the "higher" a matter of preference? Looks like I will start looking seriously into the compacts.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 3:58:14 AM EDT
Its not a "traditional" cheek weld, your head is lifted *just slightly*.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 6:58:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NYPatriot: New-arguy & Paul, do you guys have any problems establishing a proper cheek weld when using your compact ACOGS atop the carrying handle?
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Not either of them - but I ran a course with my Compact ACOG mounted in an A1 upper... Not its not a problem getting a descent cheek weld. Though it is a bit different. MrRogers1: You might not like the Compact ACOG with the 19S. The 19S sets the scope a bit lower than inteded and the shadow from the front sight will be more noticable. The Trjicon mount (while not optimal in weight or design) does mount the optic at a correct height. Of course if you have a flip down front sight then ignore this post [;)].
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 5:24:00 PM EDT
The guys at my agency who are issued department AR's have the compact ACOG's. Overall, they are a good optic. At ranges outside of 50 yards, thier groups are slightly tighter than us with EOTech or Aimpoints. However, in the close range (under 50 yards) and most definately the quick, shooting while you move style CQB type shooting, they are considerably slower to get on target due to the magnification. They are a top notch optic though, very well designed for thier intened purpose.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 7:17:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/24/2003 7:23:37 PM EDT by DevL]
If you are set on a compact ACOG let me clue you in on a few things. If you go carry handle mounted or on top of an ARMS 38 it will be too high and you lose the cheek weld. Your skin will touch from your cheek but the cheek bone will be floating above. If you go ARMS 19S its a hair too low but not as much too low as the carry handle or 38 is too high. Also the 3X and 4X ACOGs have about the same eye relief. HOWEVER the TA31 has the rear lens close to the charging handle and the compact ACOG has the rear objective much further forward as the optic is shorter overall. This exacerbates the short eye relief issues of the 3X ACOG. I reccomend either the 2X or the 3X with the custom hole drilled in the handle as shown above to move it further back. Also you could go with a special ring mount or you could drop the rear BUIS all together to get the sight further to the rear.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 8:25:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By slapshot12: The guys at my agency who are issued department AR's have the compact ACOG's. Overall, they are a good optic. At ranges outside of 50 yards, thier groups are slightly tighter than us with EOTech or Aimpoints. However, in the close range (under 50 yards) and most definately the quick, shooting while you move style CQB type shooting, they are considerably slower to get on target due to the magnification. They are a top notch optic though, very well designed for thier intened purpose.
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If you shoot these optics with both eyes open, they should be acting VERY much like the unmagnified dot optics you mention. Which reticle are in the Comp ACOGs they're using and how long have they been using them? So they get much practice with them? I could see the times maybe being a little slower, but not all that much, and not at all if someone is good with the BAC ACOG.
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 8:41:41 PM EDT
I've got a TA50-4 mounted on an ARMS 38 and 19ACOG (which I mounted backward to get another 1/2" of eye relief), and I'm in love. Extremely quick sight picture and comfy mount. I'm use to a scoped M1A, so "chin weld" is something I'm familiar with. My AR w/ this rig is ten times as comfortable. FWIW
Link Posted: 10/24/2003 8:44:10 PM EDT
I agree, with practice, you can get ALMOST just as fast with a BAC ACOG as you can with an Aimpoint or EoTech. The red-dots will always be faster, but with enough practice, you can close the gap. Steve.
Link Posted: 10/25/2003 1:12:36 AM EDT
If you shoot these optics with both eyes open, they should be acting VERY much like the unmagnified dot optics you mention.
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May be dependent on the lighting conditions... I was shooting indoors at a well-lit black target at 25yds today but was totally in the dark at my position. I was still able to target fairly quickly but I wasn't getting much use out of BAC-mode because contrast was too poor due to the unique lighting condition. I think an Aimpoint would have had a significant advantage on both initial acquisition and shot to shot. I love the automatic adjustment of reticle brightness to ambient light because 80% of the time it is a plus; but in low light environments (particularly indoors) it is sometimes less than optimum.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 1:47:06 PM EDT
I love my TA44-R4! I am very impressed with the quality. Be well!
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 5:53:59 PM EDT
I have three now (but only two rifles for them) All 3 power, two crosshairs and a triangle. The triangle is quicker, but the crosshairs work just fine. The one is on my .45 with carry handle, the other is a special ring model on my M4 with SIR. Curious, has anyone tried their compact on a 19S on a SIR? Is the height tall enough? I might try the carry handle hole drilling, but not really a problem. (do need a shorter stock) The cheek weld (lack therof really) is barely noticable. I actually notice it more when I push down more to use the Iron's.
Link Posted: 10/26/2003 7:57:20 PM EDT
Just got my TA50-R4 back from Trijicon with a clean bill of health. Its going on my current lightweight project and I love it. I actually had no interest at all in the compact series until I saw FRO's red crosshair pics in the famous tacked thread.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 12:06:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By new-arguy:
Originally Posted By slapshot12: The guys at my agency who are issued department AR's have the compact ACOG's. Overall, they are a good optic. At ranges outside of 50 yards, thier groups are slightly tighter than us with EOTech or Aimpoints. However, in the close range (under 50 yards) and most definately the quick, shooting while you move style CQB type shooting, they are considerably slower to get on target due to the magnification. They are a top notch optic though, very well designed for thier intened purpose.
View Quote
If you shoot these optics with both eyes open, they should be acting VERY much like the unmagnified dot optics you mention. Which reticle are in the Comp ACOGs they're using and how long have they been using them? So they get much practice with them? I could see the times maybe being a little slower, but not all that much, and not at all if someone is good with the BAC ACOG.
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They have the standard crosshair style. Experience and quickness varies from person to person.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 12:45:47 PM EDT
The crosshair reticle is the hardest to acheive quickness with, thats a given. I know its probably waay too late for this, bu if they went with something like the triangle, I believe their ability to achieve the quickness they are lacking now would be a lot easier.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 1:09:23 PM EDT
I also use the crosshairs. Granted, I am not as quick with it as I would be using the triangle or donut, but if I wanted red dot speed, I would use my Aimpoint red dot. A magnified ACOG is not a red dot, but the low power does give good speed. I chose the crosshair for reasons other than speed, but did choose the low power for quickness and overall the eye relief was my main concern as it is with most of my optics as I don't nose-to-CH. However, now my TA26-R4 sits on my fathers bolt action rifle - and the crosshair choice worked out great for that application, as unconventional as it sounds.
Link Posted: 10/27/2003 6:52:53 PM EDT
Of course any glass optic is slower than a red dot or even iron sights - but then of course the optics are meant to be used for CQB use [whacko]. The ACOGs were designed for improving hit percentage at distances beyond iron sight ranges - out to 150 yards or so. If you can't hit a 6" diameter target every time at those ranges spend money on practice ammo, not optics. The ACOG's will allow you to hit targets out to dedicated sniper ranges. Don't use a wrench on a nail or a hammer on a pipe fitting. I've modified my carry handle and have no problems with eye relief.
Link Posted: 10/28/2003 6:21:27 AM EDT
THANKS for all the replies as I need all the feedback as I can get because I don't know anyone personally with an ACOG that I can actually "try out". I do have another thing to ask though, I planned on using a RASII but it has come to my attention that I "WILL" need something to raise the ACOG up on the flat top. So does anyone know if rather then using a RASII, if I were to use the ARMS SIR setup would it take care of the "raising"?
Link Posted: 10/28/2003 6:29:18 AM EDT
I would imagine so. Then you could sell me your RAS II for 100 bucks.
Link Posted: 10/28/2003 4:49:56 PM EDT
I had the 3x amber crosshair and really liked it. It never washed out and the target acquisition speed was good. Very bright and clear optics. I had it most of the time on a flat top with the Trijicon mount. The scope height was absolutely perfect and the front sight tower was just a slight blur. It repeated zero and came off and on quickly. The eye relief was pretty short with the ARMS#40, but there is plenty of material on that mount that could be removed to move the scope further to the rear. I liked the nice clear recticle, uncluttered by range finding hokum. I read on here that the scope worked great on an A2 reciever. I didn't have an A2 at the time so I bought a new rifle. It didn't work out so great. The eye relief problem was much worse than with the flat top. That could be solved by drilling another hole in the receiver, but IMHO the scope was still too high. I think the scope on the flat top was only 2.9" above bore; with the A2 it was 3.5" (irons are 2.6"). My nose could no longer touch the charging handle. The scope went back on the flat top. Eventually I found that (1) the Aimpoint was a little bit quicker at short distances and (2) with a lot of practice I could shoot as well with the iron sights as I could with the ACOG. So I sold the ACOG.
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 8:29:46 PM EDT
glad I found this , just picked one up myself and am trying to figure out the best mount it t
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 2:28:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Paul: I tried the fullsize scopes, a 2x compact and then finally a 3x compact scope. I like the way the compact scope becomes a part of the rifle rather than something hung off of it. I'm a real fan of light and fast handling weapons. The ACOG sits on my designated riflemen's weapon. I did indeed drill another hole about 1.25 inches further aft on the carry handle to mount the little scope close enough to just tilt my head up from the irons and continue with the glass. [url]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=11624[/url]
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Paul, Which mount did you use, Also what size was the whole you drilled and how far back is the one in the picture.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 10:21:17 AM EDT
You could just get the special ring version of the ACOG and mount it with the medium riser. Dont limit yourself to just the handle mount version.
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