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Posted: 8/8/2005 8:08:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 10:14:35 AM EDT by PocketG]
This past friday I had another shoot against AimPoint users. I used my EOTech 552 rev.F

Not to brag, but just to state a fact....

Yes, It was me against two. One had a CompC3, the other CompML3. Blew them both away shooting 30 rounds at 30 yards at 30 2"X4" rectangles in (45 seconds). I hit all 30 in black rectangles with most of them concentrated in center of black. The C3 shooter hit 24 in black the rest out of black. The ML3 shooter hit 28 in black two out. To top it all off, both shooters are well seasoned shooters that used AimPoint for a few years now. I must ad that the C3 shooter is a member of one of the local SWAT teams which made me feel King of the Mountain.

Thanks everyone for not flaming me, but thats what happened on the way to the forum. I'm sure there are many factors to this particular shoot but all in all that was my range report of the day.

Who knows maybe next week these guys will flame me and they would be posting how they blew away a guy with a EOThingy..... I must add one thing, I am not a EOTech salesman....Just stating the days fact...


Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:40:17 AM EDT
now that's a range report!

sounds like all 3 of you scored well.

Nice shootin' PocketG
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:45:12 AM EDT
Unless you all swapped weapons and the Eotech continued to dominate, it doesn't show anything, and this is coming from someone who likes the Eotech better.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:48:45 AM EDT
Ouch, this is gonna start a shitstorm. Yeah, switch up those rifles, then we'll see what's up...
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:49:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Unless you all swapped weapons and the Eotech continued to dominate, it doesn't show anything, and this is coming from someone who likes the Eotech better.



The only conclusion to your half assed experiment is that you are better with your EOTech than they are with their AimPoints.

Good Job outshooting the other guys!

HS1
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:50:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 8:57:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HighStrung1:

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Unless you all swapped weapons and the Eotech continued to dominate, it doesn't show anything, and this is coming from someone who likes the Eotech better.



The only conclusion to your half assed experiment is that you are better with your EOTech than they are with their AimPoints.

Good Job outshooting the other guys!

HS1



Me?
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:00:14 AM EDT
Guy pulling the trigger has more to do with the shot placement than the optic.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:05:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Unless you all swapped weapons and the Eotech continued to dominate, it doesn't show anything, and this is coming from someone who likes the Eotech better.



No shit. This is a case of one shooter outshooting the others, not a case of one optic out performing another.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:10:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:

Originally Posted By HighStrung1:

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Unless you all swapped weapons and the Eotech continued to dominate, it doesn't show anything, and this is coming from someone who likes the Eotech better.



The only conclusion to your half assed experiment is that you are better with your EOTech than they are with their AimPoints.

Good Job outshooting the other guys!

HS1



Me?



No Sir. Just agreeing with your conclusion that unless all the shooters in question spent equal time using all 3 weapons, there is no way to conclude the EOTech was better.

Familiarity with the EOTech and his consequent skill helped PocketG smoke the competition.

HS1
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:13:57 AM EDT
I thought you were talking about my half assed experiment, and I was trying to figure how you knew about it....
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:16:41 AM EDT
Damn, and to think I traded four early Eothingies with N batteries for a new 1000 gallon tank full of propane. And then started buying Aimpoints. The horror! The horror!
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:18:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Unless you all swapped weapons and the Eotech continued to dominate, it doesn't show anything, and this is coming from someone who likes the Eotech better.



+1

Although I like the EOtechs better too, I just upgraded to an ACOG so I don't have to bother in these arguments anymore.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:27:24 AM EDT
If your good with iron sights, probably could beat the majority with eotechs or aimpoints users etc.
You average person doesnt spend enough time using one or the other.

Proper training and enough trigger time,priceless.

TG
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:36:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TexasGunman:
If your good with iron sights, probably could beat the majority with eotechs or aimpoints users etc.
You average person doesnt spend enough time using one or the other.

Proper training and enough trigger time,priceless.

TG



+1. I went to the range a few weekends ago with a good friend/fellow AR guy. He has a trijicon TS (too expensive for me) what ever optic on his BM. I have a cheap Leapers T168. At 50 yards and 100 yards, I outshot him all day. Slow fire, prone, rapid etc...

I don't think it was optics in this case, but more of shooting skills. Fortunately mine are better. Thank you US ARMY! The key is to know how to use and to TRUST your optics. That combined with solid shooting/trigger control, you should know where your bullet will hit every time.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:38:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 10:04:42 AM EDT by gotm4]
I could do the same test and give SIMPLYDYNAMIC a plain-jane iron sighted M4 and everyone, the same exact M4 but with any optic they want and I'll bet he beats everyone for time and accuracy hands down.

I shot with him at the NRA Range a few months back when he was 'sighting-in' an M4 upper he built, He fired a full mag into about 2" at 25yds standing in about 30 seconds. I couldn't shoot that fast that accurately with my Eotech on my best day. This test only proves that it's the shooter not the weapon.

BTW many SWAT teams aren't the great shooters that you would think. Key word here being many NOT all.

Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:51:29 AM EDT
I shot better groups, at a hundred yards, this weekend with my Tacpoint than a friend with a magnified ATN. Don't mean much to me, other than I squeeeeeeze my trigger better. Of course, my other friend, who was running an Eotech, shot better than both of us. But, he has more shooting experience than the two of us. It's the shooter 99.9% of the time. There was a guy shooting irons and doing just as well as us.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 9:58:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 10:01:05 AM EDT by eklikwhoa]
what does optics have to do with this?



dont see it being an optic type thread

bu­t going by your reasoning i can throw rocks in tighter groups than my friend that shoots with an eotech





ibtl



Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:07:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PocketG:
To top it all off, both shooters are well seasoned shooters that used AimPoint for a few years now.





Nice run.

What was the start positon and did you shoot it offhand?
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:12:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 10:13:59 AM EDT by PocketG]

Originally Posted By Face_N_The_Crowd:

Originally Posted By PocketG:
To top it all off, both shooters are well seasoned shooters that used AimPoint for a few years now.





Nice run.

What was the start positon and did you shoot it offhand?



It was all offhand, I found that i was most accurate when I started to shoot with a faster pace. As soon as I was on Q, I fired and each round hit accordingly.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 1:24:28 PM EDT
Dear G:

Could you describe your shoot a little bit more, I would like to try it. How far from another where the 2"x4" rectangles?

Where you shooting prone, sitting on a bench with a bipod, monopod?, etc, or just standing up with no support whatsoever?

Please elaborate a bit more so I can try it out with my optics.

Thanks

DUCK
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 2:27:24 PM EDT
oh well, we learned very little on this one.

Bill
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 2:33:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 2:47:12 PM EDT
Well fuck me, Im gonna buy an Eotech today!
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 2:57:12 PM EDT
PocketG just got his Eotech two weeks ago and is blind in one eye. He is a very slow learner and is also cross eyed. The Eotech was easier to learn to use and use well...
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 4:54:28 PM EDT
That settles it once and for all. Eotech is the better optic.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:51:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/8/2005 5:56:47 PM EDT by drabchoi]
My only problem is the 512 type models are only waterproof to 10 feet.....The 550s are 33 feet..whats up with that>?
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:55:10 PM EDT
the reason that the eotech may be a hair faster is due to the fact that you are not looking thru a tube vs. a sheet of glass. Field of view is not very forgiving with the Aimpoint.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 5:58:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drabchoi:
the reason that the eotech may be a hair faster is due to the fact that you are not looking thru a tube vs. a sheet of glass. Field of view is not very forgiving with the Aimpoint.

I'm afraid you're missing the point that others have brought up. The shooter makes more a difference than the optic.
Link Posted: 8/8/2005 10:46:46 PM EDT
Hey, maybe it's just me, but I can't see that tiny little red Aimpoint blob very well, and have a hard time even finding it through the toilet paper roll.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 2:43:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By magnum_99:
Hey, maybe it's just me, but I can't see that tiny little red Aimpoint blob very well, and have a hard time even finding it through the toilet paper roll.



Do you use both eyes?
You shouldn't even be looking at the optic, only the target.
Both work well for me, but I prefer the simplicity of the Aimpoint's single red dot.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 5:13:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 5:16:44 AM EDT by PocketG]

Originally Posted By rifleduck:
Dear G:

Could you describe your shoot a little bit more, I would like to try it. How far from another where the 2"x4" rectangles?

Where you shooting prone, sitting on a bench with a bipod, monopod?, etc, or just standing up with no support whatsoever?

Please elaborate a bit more so I can try it out with my optics.

Thanks

DUCK



There were 5 targets, 6 rectangles scattered among each. The distance was 30 yards. We stood there with no support. My uncle used his wristwatch for the 45 second time that was allowed. We were standing in a normal looking port at a shooting range. I noticed that the CompML3 shooter started to get sloppy when he heard that there was 5 seconds left. He last 2 shots went right off paper. just a side note: I practice every Friday using the EOTech, spending 500-1000 rounds each session. I also shoot in tactical settings. Home Made at the range if you can picture that.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 6:09:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PocketG:
I noticed that the CompML3 shooter started to get sloppy when he heard that there was 5 seconds left. He last 2 shots went right off paper.

So the SWAT shooter didn't perform that well under a time limit, eh? Interesting.


just a side note: I practice every Friday using the EOTech, spending 500-1000 rounds each session. I also shoot in tactical settings. Home Made at the range if you can picture that.
Based upon that statement, I'd bet you get in more trigger time than either of the other shooters.

PocketG, from everything you're telling use you did better than either of the shooters primarily because you are a better shooter, not because of the optic you use.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 8:04:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 8:05:41 AM EDT by PocketG]

Originally Posted By Matt_B:

Originally Posted By PocketG:
I noticed that the CompML3 shooter started to get sloppy when he heard that there was 5 seconds left. He last 2 shots went right off paper.

So the SWAT shooter didn't perform that well under a time limit, eh? Interesting.


just a side note: I practice every Friday using the EOTech, spending 500-1000 rounds each session. I also shoot in tactical settings. Home Made at the range if you can picture that.
Based upon that statement, I'd bet you get in more trigger time than either of the other shooters.

PocketG, from everything you're telling use you did better than either of the shooters primarily because you are a better shooter, not because of the optic you use.



Thats what happened to the SWAT guy. SWAT or no SWAT. Yes I do practice a lot, It all boils down to that I had a good day shooting. I have seen the SWAT guy shoot in the past and it seemed to me that he is just like you and I. I have ups and downs. It's that I learned to be comfortable and relaxed when I shoot and I seemed to go into a shooting mode under pressure because I don't want to fail in front of everyone watching so I go into this world of making the shot count and that day I went into that mode and believe me I felt it that day.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 8:42:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drabchoi:
My only problem is the 512 type models are only waterproof to 10 feet.....The 550s are 33 feet..whats up with that>?



Why is that a problem? If you need your Eotech to be "more waterproof" buy the next model up. What are you complaining about? They make one cheap enough for you to buy and play with and they also make one that is waterproof to 10m, what's more to want? Do you want the 55x series for the same price as the 51x series?

Link Posted: 8/9/2005 3:12:08 PM EDT
If I outshoot you with a Tac-Point, will you kiss my ass in front of the Queen of England?
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 3:16:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By edwin907:

Originally Posted By magnum_99:
Hey, maybe it's just me, but I can't see that tiny little red Aimpoint blob very well, and have a hard time even finding it through the toilet paper roll.



Do you use both eyes?
You shouldn't even be looking at the optic, only the target.
Both work well for me, but I prefer the simplicity of the Aimpoint's single red dot.




No, I like to pretend I'm a pirate, and wear a patch over one eye.

Dude, I shoot about 2-3 times a week, and go through over a 1000 rounds a month.

I know what I'm doing.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 3:26:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PocketG:
This past friday I had another shoot against AimPoint users. I used my EOTech 552 rev.F

Not to brag, but just to state a fact....

Yes, It was me against two. One had a CompC3, the other CompML3. Blew them both away shooting 30 rounds at 30 yards at 30 2"X4" rectangles in (45 seconds). I hit all 30 in black rectangles with most of them concentrated in center of black. The C3 shooter hit 24 in black the rest out of black. The ML3 shooter hit 28 in black two out. To top it all off, both shooters are well seasoned shooters that used AimPoint for a few years now. I must ad that the C3 shooter is a member of one of the local SWAT teams which made me feel King of the Mountain.

Thanks everyone for not flaming me, but thats what happened on the way to the forum. I'm sure there are many factors to this particular shoot but all in all that was my range report of the day.

Who knows maybe next week these guys will flame me and they would be posting how they blew away a guy with a EOThingy..... I must add one thing, I am not a EOTech salesman....Just stating the days fact...





Sounds like you just haven't run into the right Aimpoint equipped shooter yet. Keep looking, you'll find him.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 3:44:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Well fuck me, Im gonna buy an Eotech today!



Um, no you won't.

Link Posted: 8/9/2005 3:45:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 4:59:33 PM EDT by edwin907]

Originally Posted By magnum_99:

Originally Posted By edwin907:

Originally Posted By magnum_99:
Hey, maybe it's just me, but I can't see that tiny little red Aimpoint blob very well, and have a hard time even finding it through the toilet paper roll.



Do you use both eyes?
You shouldn't even be looking at the optic, only the target.
Both work well for me, but I prefer the simplicity of the Aimpoint's single red dot.




No, I like to pretend I'm a pirate, and wear a patch over one eye.

Dude, I shoot about 2-3 times a week, and go through over a 1000 rounds a month.

I know what I'm doing.



Just wondered, you're the one that has "a hard time even finding it through the toilet paper roll".

Link Posted: 8/9/2005 4:52:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 4:57:36 PM EDT by PocketG]

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Well fuck me, Im gonna buy an Eotech today!



Lumpy196,

buy one, you can't go wrong. I found that the EOTech is the most useful tool on the AR. I am going to be at the same shooting range this Friday. I will be there at 7:30 am to 12:00 noon. I will spend 400 rounds from the AR and 200 from the M1 carbine. This event will hold the 30/30/30/45 match again. If anyone interested in the CT area E-mail and I will fill you in.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 4:53:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PocketG:

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Well fuck me, Im gonna buy an Eotech today!

Lumpy196,
buy one, you can't go wrong.

Heh, you don't know who you're dealing with.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 5:24:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 5:47:10 PM EDT by PocketG]
I would like to say one thing here, 5 months ago I stunk using the EOTech and I thought I made a mistake buying it so I made a decision that I would give it a chance and promised myself I will make every effort to make it to the range and practice, practice and practice my ass off.

So I did. I started to notice that the sight and I were becoming one unit and every thing that I was able to shoot at was getting hit with the 5.56 round so at that point in time I knew the practice was paying off.

I always had 3 target stands set-up at all time with a variety of paper targets with different shapes of boxes, stars, rectangles, and sometime scribbles from a black magic marker. I would then memorize which target shape I would shoot .

I then would start off with the AR down by my side then lift, aim and shoot all the memorized shapes as fast as I can. I did this many time until I hit every of the memorized shape all the time.

To put all this in a nutshell I worked very hard to master the EOTech with blazing speed and accuracy.

Ammo used is the Winchester Q3131 no A.

The other factor to my accuracy is the muzzle brake that is installed. This is one phrase I would hear millions of time after I fire the AR, WOW theres practically no muzzle jump after each shot, so I believe that aspect is part of the accuracy of this AR during a bout of fast fire.

Link Posted: 8/9/2005 5:47:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 5:47:35 PM EDT by Matt_B]

Originally Posted By PocketG:
So I did. I started to notice that the sight and I were becoming one unit

That will happen with any sight when someone trains with it as much as you do.


To put all this in a nutshell I worked very hard to master the EOTech with blazing speed and accuracy.
No offense, but that's starting to sound bit like bragging. I don't think I have ever seen any one on these boards ever say they had "blazing speed and accuracy" and Lord knows there are quite a few top notch shooters.


The other factor to my accuracy is the muzzle brake that is installed.
Ah, that's an interesting fact. Did the other shooters have muzzle breaks or flash suppressors? Brakes definitely help control muzzle rise for follow up shots.

Link Posted: 8/9/2005 5:49:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/9/2005 5:50:14 PM EDT by PocketG]

Originally Posted By Matt_B:

Originally Posted By PocketG:
So I did. I started to notice that the sight and I were becoming one unit

That will happen with any sight when someone trains with it as much as you do.


To put all this in a nutshell I worked very hard to master the EOTech with blazing speed and accuracy.
No offense, but that's starting to sound bit like bragging. I don't think I have ever seen any one on these boards ever say they had "blazing speed and accuracy" and Lord knows there are quite a few top notch shooters.


The other factor to my accuracy is the muzzle brake that is installed.
Ah, that's an interesting fact. Did the other shooters have muzzle breaks or flash suppressors? Brakes definitely help control muzzle rise for follow up shots.




Your absolutly right, I will tone it down. Its that I'm getting better with practice and I quess I'm just getting somewhat excited about it. Now thats enough out of me. Good night everyone...
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 6:04:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PocketG:

Your absolutly right, I will tone it down. Its that I'm getting better with practice and I quess I'm just getting somewhat excited about it. Now thats enough out of me. Good night everyone...



Great to hear a shooter "working" to improve their skills with their chosen equipment.

Practice, practice, practice.

We hear it over and over, glad to hear you're doing it and getting great results. Perhaps you should post more about this.

Years (many of them) ago I had the same dilemma with a Galil AR 223 and an OEG, couldn't consistenty hit crap. Three months and thousands of rounds later my speed and accuracy with that "funny gun" and "weirdo sight" (as friends put it) astounded my fellow shooters.
I really enjoyed that.
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 6:12:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Well fuck me, Im gonna buy an Eotech today!



Stole the words right out of my mouth
Link Posted: 8/9/2005 6:21:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PocketG:
This past friday I had another shoot against AimPoint users. I used my EOTech 552 rev.F

Not to brag, but just to state a fact....

Yes, It was me against two. One had a CompC3, the other CompML3. Blew them both away shooting 30 rounds at 30 yards at 30 2"X4" rectangles in (45 seconds). I hit all 30 in black rectangles with most of them concentrated in center of black. The C3 shooter hit 24 in black the rest out of black. The ML3 shooter hit 28 in black two out. To top it all off, both shooters are well seasoned shooters that used AimPoint for a few years now. I must ad that the C3 shooter is a member of one of the local SWAT teams which made me feel King of the Mountain.

Thanks everyone for not flaming me, but thats what happened on the way to the forum. I'm sure there are many factors to this particular shoot but all in all that was my range report of the day.

Who knows maybe next week these guys will flame me and they would be posting how they blew away a guy with a EOThingy..... I must add one thing, I am not a EOTech salesman....Just stating the days fact...





I am sure it had nothing to do with different skill levels.
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