Since the previous poll about Sellier&Bellot has been archived, I have started a new thread to collect more information as this ammunition is still for sale, and questions come up at least once a week in the ammo forum. The previous results were:
301 TOTAL votes
238 Have Not had any problems at all
33 Had some problems, but would continue to use the ammunition
30 Have had major problems, and would not use the ammunition again
IF YOU HAVE ALREADY VOTED IN THE PREVIOUS POLL, PLEASE DO NOT VOTE AGAIN.
I will add the totals and generate a correct count for the ranking in the Ammunition review thread
Please add your personal experience with SELLIER&BELLOT ammunition to this thread. When you do, please give information about:
1) Firearm used in
2) Approximate number of rounds fired.
3) Ammunition type (55gr, 62gr)
From RussB's post out of a 16" barrel:
Velocity (M193): 3076, StdDev=62fps
Velocity (SS109): 2986, StdDev=143fps
1) Ammunition used: SS109 2) Fireare used: DPMS Lo-Pro Classic, 16" non chromed 3) Approximate number of rounds fired: 100 rounds with one blown primer.
Altogether I've used about 750 rnds of their M193 ammo in my Bushmaster A2 Shorty. No malfunctions of any sort and as I reload, I'm kind of partial to their brass in both 5.56 and .45ACP.
(1) Ammunition used (M193, SS109) Both (2) Firearm used in RRA CAR UTE (3) Approximate number of rounds fired. 1000 rounds of .223, 80 rounds of SS109. The SS109 is some of the most accurate ammo I've fired out of my Rock River. No problems at all. Consistent, clean ammo. I would & will buy S&B .223/5.56 ammo again.
S&B M193: 1000-rds "" SS109: 250-rds. Olympic CAR97M4 No problems, will buy more.
1)M193 2)Bushmaster 20" 3)1,000 It worked fine but I had some cases split, which made me nervous.
I've fired probably 300 rounds of their SS109 stuff through a Colt 20" HBAR. While I bought it reluctantly when I couldn't have any luck finding IMI at the time, I was somewhat pleasantly surprised by it's performance. It was accurate, hot and reliable. I'm not saying I would give up IMI for this brand, but my experience suggests it isn't quite as bad as what I have been led to believe. I also probably would not recommend the cases as a reloaders dream either.
I tried 1000 rounds of S&B SS109. It worked fine in my OLY MFR and Colt M4.
223 = SS109 & 55FMJ, several 1000 rounds of each w/ no problems 45cap = 230grn. FMJ, 2-3 1000 rounds, no problems 9mm = 115grn. FMJ, 4-5 1000 rounds, no problems 380 = 90grn. FMJ, 3-4 100 rounds, no problems 12GA = Rubber BS, 1/2 25 rounds box, no problems Mike
Tried a mixed bag of S&B and PMC (both 55gr) this weekend in my 6.5" Oly. (9.5" fake suppressor / Predator Rail / Pneumatic Buffer). Bang bang click (eject). Bang click(eject). Bang Bang Bang click (eject). All unfired S&B on the ground w/ deep primer strikes. All PMC-- empty cases. I'll stick with PMC.
1) Ammunition used (M193)Lot #323/4 2) in GAU-5 11 1/4 bbl class 3 3) Approximate number of rounds fired. 1600 out to 2000. Rounds printed a 2-3 inch group supported open sights. I have a elcon but have not used it on this weapon. In the process of bldg a M4gery. and will test the last 400 with the M4 and elcon
My friend and I have used about 10k of S&B. About 3k of that was the 5.56 55gr. Out of the total 10k we have only had ONE bad round, 5.56. I noticed a primer that was not seated "properly" while loading my mag. It may have gone bang, but I tossed it. No need to take a chance. I have had no FTF or FTE or any other problems at all. Recoil and flash are less then the Fed XM 193 that I have. Group size is the same (1.5"@100y), but the POI is a little different. This all out of a Bushy 16", 3.5x ACOG w/ triangle. The triangle is nice and quick, but not a great choice for shooting groups. My friends 20" HBAR, 4x ACOG w/ standard crosshairs will shot 1"@ 100y. I don't reload, so I can't comment on the quality of the brass. FB
Colt A3 16" HBAR Standard S&B FMJ A bunch of them Great plinking round no problems whatsoever. Cheap too.
The SS109 runs fines in my Colt and DPMS frankengun. Never tried it in the match rifle, of course.
I have shot maybe 500 rounds of S&B M193 with my SAR-80. The only problem I have experienced is that there seems to be one rounf for every 100 rnds that will not go BANG. There is something wrong with the primer I suppose. Some rounds like this will work if I give them a second chance, others never. I haven´t had any problems with other brands of ammunition like IMI, PMP and PMC. I do have a lighter hammer spring in my rifle. I have heard similar happening to a friend of mine too.
500+/- M193 Brass not the steel stuff, never had a problem. -knock on wood- Out of bushy 16"
S&B SS109 is someof the most accurate ammo we have tested, consistent 1 MOA groups from 3 different ARs. (2 Bushmaster A2 20", one 16" Frankengun of undetermined lineage.) The "M193" has a heavily copper plated steel jacket, otherwise near spec and just over MOA in the same rifles. I have had no failures of any kind in about 1K rounds, nor have any of my associates for about 5k total. Its my preferred ammo. Ops
1. M193 steel case 2. Bushmaster 20" 3. 500 I've had several problems with this ammo. The spent case sometimes gets stuck in the chamber and I have to ram a cleaning rod down the barrel to fix it. I also had a major jam once, a round got loose in the receiver and when the bolt was moving forward it hit the cartridge and it was now firmly wedged in there, it would NOT move. I had to take it home and it required a hammer and a screwdriver and lots of time to fix. Needless to say, I don't use their .223 steel case M193 anymore. But I do like their 9mm and .45 ACP brass ammo.
DPMS A15 16". This stuff worked great except for a few of the primers were blown off. Went about 200 rounds with this stuff.
M193 - 200 rds - DPMS Classic A2 HBAR, dry 75* day - No issues at all, brass really launches, hotter & cleaner than both FAE 223 & XM-193, VG accuracy at 100 & 200 meters, and same/better price than both locally in box qty. Very satisfied. Will buy again.
At least a case of "M193" through my 20" DPMS, no problems, good (not great) accuracy.
I've put ~1K rounds of the M193 thru my Bushy 20" and 16" with maybe 4 FTF's. My rifles eat it up and it groups MUCH better than the other 'cheap' ammo that I have tried. This 'cheap' ammo does not include XM193 or Q3131A. They are my prefered choices. For the $ I love S&B. Shabo
I have shot hundreds of rounds of this stuff: 1. Very accurate for plinker ammo 2. Penetration is better than M193 spec ammo due to bullet construction 3. Brass is bad. Split necks after 1 firing are too common. This brass is unsuitable for reloading. I have taken a few S&B cases to make dummy rounds though. All in all, it is good plinking ammo, and don't reload the cases. It is cheaper, than some but not as cheap as others.
Bushmaster 16" AK .223 - 1000 rnds. M193 - No problems. bought 1000 more rnds. Beretta 92FS 9mm - 115gr - 800 rnds. No problems. Benelli M1S90 12Ga - #4 buckshot - Cycles ok. Very dirty. It is supposed to be 2 3/4" but is a tad LONG and will only go 6 + 1 in my 7 + 1 Benelli. Benelli owners beware.
55gr FMJ 20" A2 HBAR: Blown and flattened primers.
Have shot 2,000+ rounds of their .223/M193 ammo via a Colt 20" HBAR and Bushmaster Shorty AK. Had only one problem with a squibb round that blew up one of the guns and almost killed me. Surviving that experience, S&B bought me a new upper after I provided eyewitness accounts and photos of the event. The ammo is a bit underpowered compared to WIN Q3131A or the South African surplus stuff, but shoots very straight. I was able to put 50/50 in a 2-inch diameter 10-ring using my Bushy Shorty AK at 50m with 37X (in a 1-inch X-ring) using open sights. This is as accurate as it gets for my money using a short 14.5-inch barrel and a stiff crosswind. Still have 1,000-rounds of the stuff left and it's great for the range. Self-defense? Give me the WIN Q3131A that has a higher velocity and will break up upon impact with a bad guy. I have shot about 1,000-rounds of their 9MM and 40 S&W pistol ammo with perfect results and no problems. The 9MM/115-gr seems a bit on the hot side and the 40 S&W/180-gr seems like it's a dog on the slow side.
I have fired probaly 1000 5.56 in 55Gr and SS109, and about 1000 9mm, no porblems except for 1 9mm round was not set properly.
1) Ammunition used (M193, SS109). SS109 2) Firearm used in. Armalite 20" M15A4 3) Approximate number of rounds fired. 2000 No malfunctions of any kind. 3MOA.
1. M193 2. Bushmaster A1 3. 5000 rnds
Hi Guys: S&B steel cased 55 fmj, lacquered, packaged 8 boxes of 140 rounds (loose) per case. Bought 5 cases at the astounding price of $25.00 PER CASE. Fired some 600 rounds +/-, in Colt 20" HBAR Match Target. No failures. Seems very dirty, and accuracy is mediocre at best. Please note: I've previously purchased S&B ammo, clearly marked Non-Corrosive/Non-erosive that in use was actually found to have some major mystery priming issue that caused all sorts of corrosion and fouling. S&B, as is typical of their firm, refused to acknowledge the problem, or to even examine the ammo and test it. I'll hold what I have. It's junk ammo, but it serves as a decent little stockpile. Better than nothing. But I'm certainly not buying more.
(1) Ammunition used....M193 (2) Firearm used in....Armalite Eagle Arms M-15 carbine (3) Approximate number of rounds fired....300 Stuff shot great every time out....not a single misfire or single loading failure. I will definately buy again. Brett
RRA 16" upper Bushy lower 2k plus rounds very accurate in my set up no problems at all love it buying more
Ammo: M193 Gun: 10.5" barel w/ 5.5" FS "commando" upper (non-chromed), PWA lower Magazines: various USGI and Colt Ar-15 Rounds: 1000 S&B seems to have a strange stink to it when fired. It also seemed a little dirtier than Federal XM193. The ammunition worked perfectly, though. I prefer Federal XM193, but wouldn't hesitate to use S&B.
Armalite M15 SPR 55 grain green-box A few thousand rounds without problem
1) M193 2) AR15 '16 M4 BBL 1:9 3) 600rnds Zero problems
1) M193 2) 20" & 16" ARs 3) 1,700 About 1 dead primer every 400 rounds (4 total so far). No cracked case necks until 4th firing of reloaded cases. Accurate enough for practice, brass nice enough to reload for competition. Have shot and reloaded one lot 4x so far, before I got any cracked case necks. Brass is in nice condition out of rifle, slight rim lifts and ejector scrapes out of carbine.
.223 55gr FMJ 2000 rounds-ish Full auto out of reg M16 no problems - will buy again 9mm 115gr FMJ 2000 rounds Full-auto out of reg MP5K no problems - will buy again
Bought 1000rnds of 55grnFMJ ~18months ago, out of which roughly half-a-dozen had backwards primers. The rest of the batch had no problems and shot fine, but the fact of the backwards primers left me disinclined to buy more.
1) Ammunition used (M193, SS109)
2) Firearm used in
3) Approximate number of rounds fired.
1) Sellier & Bellot,
NP 39.51 20 pcs 223 REMINGTON (5,56 x 45 mm)
Bullet: Type FMJ - M 193/No 2903, Weight: 3,6g 55gr
Primer: 4,4 Boxer
Stamped into the top flap of the green cardboard box: 347/36
Printed below the stamped information: T. C. 0 5271 - 2
Headstamp: S&B (a symbol that looks like a circle wearing a crown) 223 REM
2) Bushmaster XM15E2S, 20" Barrel
3) 60 cartridges
No malfunctions. Fired for familiarization, plinking and initial evaluation. Point of impact correlated nicely with point of aim established using other ammunition.
I've only fired 60 of the 200 cartridges initially purchased.
I'm satisfied with the function.
I may test for accuracy later, but I was hitting with enough regularity that my evaluation session was almost boring.
I observed a scent similar to rotten eggs (a.k.a. "cat piss").
Price was right and service was good from Natchez Shooters Supplies (www.natchezss.com).
I shot about a thousand rounds of .223 S&B about three years ago. No problems at all.
Great ammo in all calibers.
Shot Sellier & Bellot ammo in 9mm Para, .45 ACP, and .223. No problems whatsoever.
Be very careful. S&B ammo is normally loaded with copper-plated-steel-jacketed bullets, not gilding-metal (i.e., copper alloy) jackets. As such, it is not safe to use this ammo for shooting at steel targets, as the ricochet danger is very great. Several years back, when S&B's brass-cased ammo was first imported, folks started bringing this stuff to shooting schools, and there were a number of injuries, cuts primarily, from pieces of bullets bouncing back to the shooting line when fired at steel targets (plates, pepper poppers, etc.). Most schools have banned S&B ammo for this reason.
During the dry season, the steel jackets are also a fire hazzard, as the jackets will cause sparks when hitting rocks. Every year, steel-jacketed ammo causes range fires, and last year, one of the big SoCal wildfires was started by steel-jacketed ammo.
Finally, these bullets will not fragment in tissue, and will perform much like the Wolf ammo did in the B&T Ammo Labs tests.
Just keep these factors in mind when using any steel-jacketed ammo. A magnet can be your friend.
bought a bunch a few years ago in .223 and have shot most of it up. It functions good and is pretty accurate for plinking ammo.
I do have a problem with the brass though. Many once fired cases have splits around the neck. I would NOT even think about reloading it. None of my splits were serious, as they were limited to the neck.
I have shot many of these rounds through MGs and Semi-Autos, and there have been no significant failures.
Again, my experience is mostly limited to .223.
Fired .223/5.56 M193 type in my SL8-5. No problems, and yes its pretty hot compared to other factory loads, still pretty decent accuracy, around 1,5-2" at 100m (G36 scope).
Dont know how many rounds, but its in the 3 digits range.
Fired around 500 rounds 9mm in my Glock, also no problems at all (I used different brands before, 'til I reckoned S&B does the same for far less money).
I ordered 300 rounds for testing purposes. Out to fifty yards it works well with a XM193/Q3131 zero. No ammo related malfunctions in three different guns (Bushmaster 16 inch, CavArms/ModOne 16 inch, Clot AR15A2 2o inch). There was some case deformities and this coupled with info from others I will not add it to my brass horde.
All in all I don't think it's worth the small price difference from XM193, but if XM193 wasn't available (which has been spoty this year) I would have no problems making it my major practice ammo.
I have put ~1500 S&B 55gr .223 (mint green box) rounds thru my 2 Bushy's (one 20", one 16") with maybe 2 FTF's. No complaints from me other than the price has gone up to where I don't consider it cheap ammo anymore.
Put 860 rds of that stuff through my bushy over the past three weeks. It was the newer green box stuff. I also use alot of the 30 carbine stuff for my m2. Never had a problem with it at all.
S&B in .223 is very good ammo.
S&B in.308 was a major disappointment.
On the other hand one and only one 20 round box of .223 turned out to be duds. One blown primer and 18 misfires from that single box. Otherwise I’ve had no trouble at all with S&B.
I have shot the 55 and 62 grain brass cased rounds with no problems in close to 1000 rounds.
Recently came across some 55gr steel cases, shot approx 40 rounds of it with no problems.
I had one round go "pop" When I took it out everything was intact except the primer had blown out of the back of the case. When I looked into the primer pocket I realized they hadn't punched a hole into the interior of the case for the flash to go through to the powder.
1) EA J-15 cast lower with Bushmaster 16-inch M4-profile bbl
2) 100 rounds
3) 55gr FMJ/M193
Ambient temp was ~37F. Accuracy was very good compared to Wolf. No problems whatsoever. I paid $120/1000rds. I have 2 more unopened cases. Boxes are new yellow & green boxes.
I have fired a few thousand rounds of the 55gr .223, and very little of the 62gr .223 without any problems. (Bushmaster)
I have fired alot of the 115gr 9mm and some of the 230gr .45 Auto, again, without any problems of any kind. (Glocks)
I have fired several hundred rounds of the 12ga buckshot loads, also without any problems of any kind. (Remington 870's, 1100, 11-87)
I know that some may discredit my opinion because I shoot Glocks, but I've never had any problems with the S&B ammo. And, to further tarnish my credibility, I reload S&B brass in 9mm, .45 Auto, and .223 and have never had a problem of any kind, which is more than I can say about Federal commercial/ LC brass.
I bought a couple hundred rounds of S&B M855 type ammo. I had no problems with it and it chronoed to M855 spec.
I have not bought any since then (I'm not a fan of M855).
Some friends did some accuracy testing with S&B SS109 and were pleasantly surprised, 1 MOA groups out to 300 meters with several ARs. Great Stuff. Ops
shot about 2-300 rds of 55grain, with no problems whatsoever... thru Busy m-4gery..16". Purchased 800rds of the 62grain S&B, have yet to shoot any of though. Burns cleaner than Winchester though.
had several rounds of the commercial .223 seprate after firing. The brass is complete crap. DO NOT RELOAD IT.
had some issues with 230gr 45acp not cycling my 1911's. it's the only ammo i ever had that happen with.
won't buy the stuff anymore.
Absolutely no reliability problems after 5,000 rounds from Olympic Arms ICR 16" bbl.
Very satisfied with accuracy, but have never done much bullseye /benchrest shooting or compared against another brand.
Pretty nasty ammonia smell during high volume shooting.
I am sticking with S&B for 223
200 rounds in .223 - 5.56, M193, fired through a 11,5 barrel. Fail to feed every 2 or 3 rounds.
Work better with the can on the gun (Brugger and Thomet vortex II), but the ammonia smell is a real, real problem in this configuration.
Don’t fit short barrel I think. Won’t buy it anymore.
I bought many cases of this ammo the week after Jan 1 2000 rolled around and we didn't implode. LOL
I've shot a couple thou rounds with no problems. I've still got many cases left. Got it real cheap, I believe I bought it from Cheaper than Dirt. The price was fire sale stuff, I guess they stocked up for the "end of the world 2000" and when it was over, they found they had lots of extra ammo.
I also bought cases of AK ammo. My first and only purchase form CTD.
BTW, I've run it thru my M16 w/no problems
Have only shot a few rds. of .223 but since S&B is the main fodder
for my G17, I have shot over 20k 9mm without a single malfunction!
I have shot approx. 250 rounds of the "M193" version through my 3 bushys with no problems. Brass has always be bright/shiny and not a sinfle malf. I did shoot a box of the .40 S&W 180fmj once through my Glock 22. No malfs, Just seem like it was real dirty.
I bought 1,000 rds at a gunshow in 1986-87 and just used the last two weeks ago.
One problem : primer came out and jamed the bolt as it was returning to battery with a
new round. Jamed about 1 1/2 inches from closing.
Buy again? Yes
Most of the ammo was used in my slabside 20" Colt.
The last 250 rounds used in 16" hbbl CMT lower, Mod 1 upper.
Ammo S&B 55gr. . 223
I shot (or tried to shoot a 20rd box of the .223 with the brass cases) this weekend.
Had two cases blow apart.
One had the whole rear 1/4 of the case blown off and left the remainder of the case in the chamber, came out with chamber brush, pic to be loaded soon.
I will not use this again.
The guy at the range said that this type of S&B does not do well in semi autos but works fine in bolt actions.....(?)
ETA: 16" Bushmaster, heavy barrel, normal day out, ammo looked fine.
runs good in my bushy
1) 2 different EA J-15 cast lowers. 1 with Bushy upper, other with DPMS upper (both 16" M4-profile)
2) 500 rounds
3) 55gr FMJ/M193
No problems whatsoever with both rifles and groupings at 50 yds. were 1/2-3/4 in.
I ran 300 rounds of the newer S&B (yellow and green box) .223 M193 ammo through my Colt M4 last weekend with not one issue. Every round fired perfect.
great plinking ammo, I've used .45 and .223 with no problems
Hoo-boy, you guys don't ask for much! Here goes:
.45 ACP: > 2,000 rounds through my ParaOrdnance P14.45. No problems.
.30 Carbine: > 500 rounds through my Ruger Blackhawk. No problems.
9mm Luger 115gr FMJ: > 1,000 rounds through my CZ-52 and Tokarev TT-33. No problems.
9mm Makarov: about 200 rounds through my Makarov. No problems.
38 Special, 158gr LRN: about 200 rounds through my Ruger Redhawk. No problems.
.357 Mag, 158gr FMJ: about 200 rounds through my Ruger Redhawk. No problems.
8mm Mauser 196gr SP: about 60 rounds through my Turkish Mauser. No problems.
7.62x54R 174gr JHP: about 60 rounds through my Moisin Nagant M39, about 40 rounds through my PSL
.223 62gr Green Tip: about 60 rounds through my AR15. No problems.
.410 gauge buckshot: about 50 rounds through my Saiga .410. No problems.
12 guage 00 buckshot: about 100 rounds through my Benelli Nova. No problems. Recoil a little stiff...
I can recall no feeding problems, no misfires, no hang fires, no accuracy problems, or any other kind
of problem with any of the S&B ammo that I've ever used. In my experience, S&B ammo has always
been reliable and accurate. I use the brass from fired rounds for my reloads. The only problem I ever
had was with a batch of .38 special that had a steel jacket. Not a performance problem, but the range
master didn't like seeing the sparks flying off of his backstop.
I've put 200 rounds through my 16" RRA with result as good as Q3131A at 100 yards (i.e. less than 2 MOA from the bench). I used 55 gr FMJ.
I had some weird crimps. FTE is all I have to say. Other than that it was alright. I would probably buy more if I was in a pinch. One step above Wolf if you ask me. (300rds)
My biggest regret with S&B greentips is that I didn't buy 25 cases of it when it was around in quantity.
Anyone know where its still avaiable?