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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/12/2005 7:45:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2005 3:43:59 PM EDT by Zhukov]
This thread is ONLY about the recently available XM193PD variant, which is sold loose. If your review is about BOXED XM193, please add your review to this thread instead.

Please add your personal experience with Federal XM193PD ammunition to this thread. When you do, please give information about:
1) Firearm used in
2) Approximate number of rounds fired.

For more information about this ammunition, check out the Federal website.

I am trying to solicit only information about your PERSONAL experience with this ammunition. If you haven't used it, then please don't clutter up the thread. Information about proper functioning (or lack thereof) is obviously the most important, but factors such as the accuracy or other peculiarities you've noticed are informative also. If you have had problems with this ammo which were severe enough to cause you to stop using this ammo, then please describe them. And one more minor request: keep your reviews objective.

This post is part of a larger information-gathering effort I'm trying to start about ALL ammunition popular in AR's:
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=169729.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 8:46:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/12/2005 8:49:14 AM EDT by JoelK]
Despite all of the other threads I have had no significant problems(one round had a slightly damaged tip, it shot just fine though) with the 2000 I previously bought from Eric. In fact, with all of the shortages, I picked up another 2000 last week.

Edited to add it chronographs right around 3100, just like the boxed XM193, and accuracy has been the same too.
Link Posted: 1/25/2005 4:39:13 AM EDT
I ordered a 500 round box of the XM193PD from Sportsmans Guide last
week. This weekend, while shooting, I had a misfire that could have been
catastrophic. It sounded like the hammer fell on a spent primer, so I
waited a couple of seconds then cleared the chamber and tried to reload.
Fortunately, I wasn't able to.

Upon inspection, I found the bullet had lodged in the barrel just past
the chamber, but not far enough in that it would allow another round to
chamber. I wasn't able to discern which casing it was from, so I
couldn't tell if it had powder failure, no powder, etc...

My box has a mix of headstamps ranging from 01-03. I shot 30 rounds or
so and that was the only problem I had. It could have been much worse,
but it was still frightning. I'm not sure I'd order the loose ammo
again.

Bushmaster 16-inch Carbine
Link Posted: 1/25/2005 4:07:34 PM EDT
Half way thru 500.
6 wrinkled necks.
2 dented beyond use.
2 damaged projectiles.
1 real weak round when fired, did clear the barrel.
Fired thru M16 semi-clone,1/12 twist, 20in.

Just a Question, how about adding to the vote " I have had minor problems probably won't use it again"?
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 10:28:35 AM EDT
Greetings All,

I'm fairly new here, but have been observing intently......time to jump in.

I just went through a 500 round box received from Ammoman on 1/25, here's what I found:

510rds total
24 were bad

Mixed dates, from 00(18), 01 (217), 02 (231) and 03 (20)

Some looks like they have been cycled through weapons. I suspect all this ammo is range turn in ammo, I don't think the military can call unsealed ammo combat ready, so it becomes "training only".
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 10:29:10 AM EDT
These pretzels are making me thirsty.
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 12:44:38 PM EDT
I talked with ATK/Federal about the problem. They are sending UPS to pick up the remaining rounds and the brass so they can do an inspection. They asked if I felt comfortable shooting the rest of the ammo, and I said "not really." Seems like they were pretty concerned. Not sure when I'll get replacement ammo since the 5.56 NATO stock has been frozen for consumer sale.

I've shot a couple thousand rounds of the XM193 and have been very pleased. So it was a disappointment when I had the problem with the PD. I'll still buy the XM193, but never the PD.

I'll keep you posted when I hear back from ATK.

Link Posted: 1/26/2005 4:14:49 PM EDT
First box of 500: 3 wrinkled necks
5 with big dents
several more with handling dents.
All fired without a problem. I have seen dents in ammo I was issued in the 70S that came on stripper clips.
Inch and one half inch 10 round groups at 100 yards were the norm.
After I received this ammo I started to have questions about quality. It was listed as M193 ammo when I ordered it. Not XM193PD.
It was fire in a Colt AR-15 A2 Sporter II. When I started on the box the rifle had less than 50 rounds through it.
I will order more when I need it.
Gunseller
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 5:28:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2005 5:35:18 PM EDT by Bushwacker85]
Just went through my 500 rounds by hand. Found about 13 or so with loose bullets or damaged necks/set back too far. I tossed the ones with damaged necks and the ones set back too far. Would it be safe to shoot cartridges with loose bullets and no other identifiable problems? I don't think I am getting anymore XM193PD. Not for $100 anyway. Hey, at least I didn't run into any pretzels. What is weird though is my XM855PD seems to be much better quality.
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 5:33:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Triggerbender:
Just a Question, how about adding to the vote " I have had minor problems probably won't use it again"?



+1
Link Posted: 1/26/2005 11:42:19 PM EDT
I bought 1000 rounds loose packed last November from SG. I was kinda ticked when it said XM193PD on the box. Was advertised as XM193. I searched the site here back then and didn't find anything at all on the PD issue. So I kept the ammo. Went through the 2 500 round boxes and found a total of 4 bad rounds (dented). No other problems to report. I've shot about 350 rounds so far with no problems at all. It is loaded hot, and is accurate. Will I buy it in the future? Prolly not with all the bad press here. I plan on keeping 500 of mine held back for storage ammo (to keep my WINCHESTER Q3131A company). Will buy Rem, Win, PMC or Fed next time for plinking ammo.
Link Posted: 1/27/2005 3:56:17 PM EDT
Went through my 500 rounds by hand, 50 are defective. Don't buy this shit.
Link Posted: 1/29/2005 7:58:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2005 1:50:40 PM EDT by cat-mechanic]
I guess I got lucky. I loaded all of my mags yesterday looking at each round, I did not see any problems at all. Went and shot about 200 rounds today through 3 different rifles and had 0 problems. When I got home I loaded the mags again and loaded the rest of the 1000 onto stripper clips and found nothing noticeable.

ETA: This 1000 rounds came from Ammoman
Link Posted: 1/30/2005 10:36:42 AM EDT
I have and looked thru 1500 rounds , about 20 questionable were pulled out. Went to the range today and sent 100 down without a problem. XM-193PD from SG
Link Posted: 1/30/2005 1:52:58 PM EDT
You guys check for loose rounds? I wouldn't have noticed mine either until I physically pulled back and forth on the bullets. 50 rounds like this was just too much for me. Called Sportman's Guide and asked for a refund. No problem, they are sending me a pre-paid UPS shipping label to send my stuff back. The XM855PD seems to be pretty decent stuff. I went through my 500 of that by hand also, and I didn't find one I wouldn't shoot.
Link Posted: 1/30/2005 6:10:15 PM EDT
I have gone through a thousand plus rounds of this ammo without any problems. I have not inspected each round but I may start due to this thread.
Link Posted: 1/30/2005 6:57:59 PM EDT
I'm new at this also, I bought 2,000 rds of the M855 PD from the sportsmans guide. I used about 150rds with no problem, I loaded the majority onto strippers to store away for shtf.

My concern now is should I rely on this ammo or just bring it to the range and shoot to get rid of it?
Link Posted: 1/31/2005 11:50:27 AM EDT
I just got 1,000 rds from SG. Acouple handfuls so far, all looks good.

I was suprised they all seem have the green tips though, I thought most batches of PD didn't...
Link Posted: 1/31/2005 1:18:23 PM EDT
Out of the thousands I have purchased lately a few rounds I discarded. But all in all I have had no problems and it shoots well.
Link Posted: 1/31/2005 1:41:51 PM EDT
opened one box of 500 and sorted out 10 rounds that had crappy looking crimps.(there was still 500 ok rounds,box held 510 )
I did a test fire in a plain barrel 20" 1/9 bushmaster with high power scope and sandbags off bench.This gun is stock except a RR NM trigger.
XM193PD mostly 00 with some 01 and 02-3159fps/1.13" ten shot group @ 100yd.
Win 62 gr USA223R3 lot VA31 2903fps/1.29"
XM193 boxed lot 4 (01 headstamp) 3238fps/1.69"
lot 2 (01 headstamp) 3129fps/1.76"
lot 3 (01 headstamp) 3122fps/1.73"
Win Q3131A lot tk71(wcc 02 ) 3100fps/2.88"--second string 2.19"
XM193PD (nasty looking crimps) 2.38"

If I thought I could get the same lot I would buy a pile of this,I am not a fan of haveing to sort it but I think it is just fine as blasting ammo
Link Posted: 1/31/2005 2:18:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By capnrob97:
I just got 1,000 rds from SG. Acouple handfuls so far, all looks good.

I was suprised they all seem have the green tips though, I thought most batches of PD didn't...



Ok, I started to load these into mags, and found one with what looks like a slight split in the neck...

Is this dangerous to shoot? If the bolt locks into place, how could it cause a kaboom?

Sorry if this is a stupid question
Link Posted: 1/31/2005 6:47:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By capnrob97:
I just got 1,000 rds from SG. Acouple handfuls so far, all looks good.

I was suprised they all seem have the green tips though, I thought most batches of PD didn't...



Damn, I just got 500 rounds a couple weeks ago and it had no green tips, which would have been nice. Seems to be the luck of the draw. I would say again though that the XM855PD is decent stuff and I will buy more. No more XM193PD for me though, too shitty. Luickily I found somone locally with some boxed XM193. Picked up 500 rounds. And I wouldn't shoot any with split necks if I were you.
Link Posted: 1/31/2005 10:44:07 PM EDT
Where are you guys getting the majority of this SG and AMMOMAN? What you do guys think about the XM855 PD from Ammoman, I have been thinking some up for SHTF storage.
Link Posted: 2/26/2005 9:11:12 PM EDT
I fired about 100 rounds of this stuff today. Everything worked pretty well except I did have about 4-5 weak rounds that were noticeably weak when firing. I was suprised that there was enough energy to send the bolt back on a couple of them. Other than than that, everything was smooth.
Link Posted: 2/27/2005 7:47:50 AM EDT
Bought 1000 XM-193PD and 1000 XM-855PD from Sportsmansguide. Both boxes had exactly 1000 rounds in them all in great condition. shot about 300 rounds of XM-193PD through a 14.5" Bushmaster M4A3, and another 300 through a 20" Bushmaster H-bar. It functioned fine in both rifles, very accurate, around 1.5- 2" 5-round groups at 100 with iron sights. only problem was the POI for the XM-193PD, and XM-855PD is about 12" higher than previous lots of the better grade, boxed XM-193 and XM-855. Also both rifles have about 150 rounds each of XM-855PD through them. it functioned fine and was just as accurate or better than the XM-193PD.
Link Posted: 4/14/2005 9:29:32 PM EDT
I purchased 2,000rds of this last fall from Sportsmans Guide, thinking it was normal XM193. They just sat in my closet until last weekend. I didn't inspect them, but I've put about 200rds through my 20" Bushmaster V-match without any problems. I missed it through the scope, but someone said one of them was a tracer. I'd probably buy it again.
Link Posted: 4/15/2005 6:37:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/17/2005 8:28:53 PM EDT
I had a few tracers mixed in.

Which means they weren't even 55 grain XM193.

Running 200 yards at a dead sprint to put out a fire downrange sucks, though.

Link Posted: 4/18/2005 8:30:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2005 8:32:36 PM EDT by mo4040]
My brother and I used 4 thousand rounds (two boxes of 2k rounds) of this stuff at a recent carbine course. My brother experienced zero problems. I had only one "mystery" stoppage that happened on the first day. After about 10 rounds I experienced a failure to extract/eject...the bolt was seized. Weapon had to be butt-stroked on the ground to open the bolt. I have no idea what the cause of the stoppage was. Outside of that, both weapons ran flawlessly through all of the ammo. Only two rounds were not loaded/used because of dented cases. Good stuff and will buy again...

EDITED to add:

Ammo was purchased from Ammoman.
Link Posted: 4/19/2005 4:42:38 PM EDT
I got a little over 500 rounds of this stuff of which over 100 had some sort of imperfection, of those around 20 or so I deemed unsuitable to fire. The remaining 480+ (some of which were slightly dented) fired really well. I put about 300 rounds downrange today alone and was very happy with the way things performed.

That wasn't the case earlier in the week, where I had a round (the first one I fired in my weapon, since it is brand new) blow up. It somehow bent the gas tube and I couldn't fire the weapon at all. I took it back to the dealer and he exchanged out top ends for me. Things work really well now, but I probably wont use the PD version again, Just to many rounds that were dented, and going through 500 rounds individually is a real pain in the ass just to make sure they all check out visually.

Link Posted: 4/20/2005 1:23:36 PM EDT
I bought 500 rounds from SG. It is the first ammo that I fired through my new AR-15. I have fired approximately 100 rounds of it, and have not had any major problems, but it does need to be inspected prior to use to check for dented / damaged rounds.

All in all from my experience, I would say it is as good as boxed XM193, just as long as it is checked out before loading it into magazines.
Link Posted: 4/30/2005 6:06:37 AM EDT
I've fired a few hundred rounds so far. One dud, a couple of keyholes.

Link Posted: 5/2/2005 5:03:19 PM EDT
I purchased 1,000 rounds from the sportsman's guide in december and have fired 210 rounds thru a bushmaster 20 inch and a bushmaster 16 inch with no problems. Good ammo I would buy more.
Link Posted: 5/5/2005 12:25:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/5/2005 12:25:39 AM EDT by R-32]
Got mine from the SG, I had 6 rounds that I will not fire for crimping, and dents...all the rest look good so far no probs with 200 rds downrange.
Link Posted: 5/10/2005 9:28:57 AM EDT
I bought 1,000 rounds of this stuff thinking it was just the same as XM193, but got pretty mad once I got home and found out what I really had. I subsequently went and hand-checked every single round for obvious defects. Out of 1,000 rounds, I found less than ten that I deemed "really unsafe looking." Some of these were REALLY bad. I also set aside some ammo for the following groups: bullets that look too far out, bullets that look too far in, and looks-almost-but-not-quite-bad-enough-to-throw-away, with about 20 or so in each group. Then I took some ammo out to the range to see how it performed. I shot ammo from the follwing catagroies:

-20 rnds w/bullets that looked too far in
-20 rnds w/bullets that looked too far out
-20 rounds of hand-picked, perfect-looking condition ammo
-20 rounds of ammo picked entirely at random
-5 rounds of ammo that looked pretty bad (but not bad enough to be deemed "really unsafe looking")

The result? 0 malfunctions in any group. Accuracy out of my Bushmaster 16" HBAR @ 50 yards was exactly the same as regular XM193.

Checking each round individually by hand took a good hour or two, but it was worth it for the cheap price I paid. All the rounds are really shiny looking, too. If you're willing to do the work, I'd reccomend this stuff for either plinking or your ammo-ban backup supply.
Link Posted: 5/24/2005 12:33:53 AM EDT
Went through a case of this, no problems at all.
Link Posted: 5/28/2005 12:02:15 PM EDT
Been through 3k with 3 ARs. No failures and just one round with a slightly dented neck. I will use it on the range until the Boxed XM193 price stablizes. Very satisified with it.
Link Posted: 5/28/2005 8:23:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2005 8:34:18 PM EDT by YELLOWV]
Shot about 500 rds or so through my 16" Bushy M4. Had one bullet that hit the feedramp and set back into the casing causing a FTF. Not sure if it was the round itself or the new mag I was using (which had no further problems since) but I would say it was the round. This was the only FTF the rifle has ever had ruling out the rifle. My buddy aslo shot about 1000 rounds with no ammo related problems. So IMO 1 out of 1500 aint bad. That bein said I will probably shoot black hills reman. from now on. I used it on my last range outing and the stuff is great. Here is a pic of the bad round I had.
Link Posted: 6/2/2005 6:52:18 PM EDT
I was thinking of buying some but then I gotta wonder why the boxes are marked "FOR TRAINING USE ONLY". Clearly they aren't up to snuff for duty use, and the reports here confirm that.

Think I'm going to stick with White Box
Link Posted: 6/3/2005 11:32:43 AM EDT
I've fired over 3,000 rds to date with no problems. Rifles used were 20" A1, 14.5" CMMG A2, and 14.5" CMMG A3. I have found no shift in POA/POI between this and XM193 boxed.
Link Posted: 6/3/2005 12:07:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By OBird:
I also set aside some ammo for the following groups: bullets that look too far out, bullets that look too far in, and looks-almost-but-not-quite-bad-enough-to-throw-away, with about 20 or so in each group. Then I took some ammo out to the range to see how it performed. .



Do not fire any round with the bullet set back in the case. Dangerous over pressure results. Bullet not far enough into the case may not feed properly, but is not dangerous as are those with the bullet set back. Do not shoot. Dispose properly.

Our of 2,000 rounds I have had two or three failures to fire. Otherwise accuracy typical of XM193.
Link Posted: 6/3/2005 12:36:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By schaferhunde: Just to many rounds that were dented, and going through 500 rounds individually is a real pain in the ass just to make sure they all check out visually.




I do a quick inspection of all my boxed ammo when I load the mags so its no big thing for me.
Link Posted: 6/27/2005 1:04:25 PM EDT
I bought 1000 rounds of this stuff and have fired it through my 14.5" Bushmaster and my girlfriend's 16" RRA. This stuff is junk I've had a couple underpowered rounds and a few overpowered ones that spat fire out of the ejection port. The loads aren't very consistent, my target looked like I hit it with a shotgun. This is basically expensive Wolf ammo. Only buy the XM193 and stay away from this stuff.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 3:54:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2005 4:02:42 PM EDT by P-245]
One buys the -PD ammo knowing it is definately NOT the pick of the litter. I bought a case of 1,000 XM193PD (stamped 00 through 04) and inspected each and every cartridge. I checked, at a minimum, for case neck and bullet damage, bullet seating, dents, primers (if it has one and that it is flush to the base), and shook each one to ensure it had powder. I separated them into three piles -- a-okay, minor dents and dings, and all others (will not shoot). The a-okay stuff I will keep and store, I shot up the minor dented cartridges today, and I will dispose of the rest. I ended up with a little over 1.5% total rejects. Here is a sample of Lake City's "finest":

Link Posted: 9/5/2005 4:26:43 PM EDT
I had two 500 Rd boxes in a mixed lot of ammo I bought .
The first box was nice with only a few questionable
rounds . The second box however , it looked like it was
the reject bin with probably 25-30% showing defects .
Damaged necks , dented cases , deep set bullets , you name it .
Including 3 dented cases that had no bullet at all

I think I'll stick with the 20 rd boxed stuff .
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 4:56:45 PM EDT
I've shot about 300 rounds of this stuff so far. All of the rounds have been fine.

Wedge
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