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Posted: 2/13/2003 2:33:01 PM EST
I've got quite a lot of ammo that I want to set back in ammo cans. I'm just wondering what the capacities of different sized cans would be for various calibers. I would like to either pack in 500 or 1000 round lots only, with no extra space in the cans if possible. What cans should I get for .22LR, 5.45X39, 5.56X45, 7.62X39, 7.62X51, .45ACP, and 12-gauge? Remember, 500 or 1000 rounds to a can ONLY. Thanks!
Link Posted: 2/13/2003 4:01:49 PM EST
Originally Posted By M4Madness: I've got quite a lot of ammo that I want to set back in ammo cans. I'm just wondering what the capacities of different sized cans would be for various calibers. I would like to either pack in 500 or 1000 round lots only, with no extra space in the cans if possible. What cans should I get for .22LR, 5.45X39, 5.56X45, 7.62X39, 7.62X51, .45ACP, and 12-gauge? Remember, 500 or 1000 rounds to a can ONLY. Thanks!
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[url=http://www.ammo-oracle.com/#storeammo]Q. How do I store ammo properly?[/url]
Link Posted: 2/13/2003 4:18:04 PM EST
The large cans used for 5.56mm belted ammo can easily hold 1000 rounds of M193 on stripper clips. The clips fit 3x3, laying flat. You'll have space left at the top, but you can fill that with cardboard strips if you want to keep the rounds from tumbling if the can gets knocked over. I [i]believe[/i] a standard .308 can will hold 1000 rounds of loose .45ACP 230g. FMJ, but I'd have to count to make sure...and I ain't gonna count 'em.
Link Posted: 2/14/2003 6:35:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/15/2003 4:58:18 AM EST by noah]
Originally Posted By M4Madness: I've got quite a lot of ammo that I want to set back in ammo cans. I'm just wondering what the capacities of different sized cans would be for various calibers. I would like to either pack in 500 or 1000 round lots only, with no extra space in the cans if possible. What cans should I get for .22LR, 5.45X39, 5.56X45, 7.62X39, 7.62X51, .45ACP, and 12-gauge? Remember, 500 or 1000 rounds to a can ONLY. Thanks!
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There are really too many variables for a definite answer in each case. Youcan hit your goal with the 45ACP and the 9MM if you use the GI cartons and NOT the bulkier commercial cartons. The 22LR is a special case. A 500 round brick of 22LR will certainly fit in an M19A1 can, but two more will fit also. That's 1500 rounds. Leave out a brick and you have a lot of (wasted, IMO) space in the can. At the other end of the spectrum 1000 rounds of boxed 7.62 Nato won't even fit in a PA108 can, let alone anything smaller. There are three most common types of ammunition containers readily available on the surplus market: M19A1 -- the so-called "30 Cal" can, although it is used for other ammo. M2A1 -- the so-called "50 Cal" can, although it is used for other ammo as well as .50 BMG. PA108 -- the so-called "SAW" can, usually filled with 5.56x45, various flavors, linked. The PA125 is another container that is a bit harder to find, and is originally used for 40mm ammunition. Internal dimensions are 5.5" wide, 17.25" long, 9.5" high. The PA125 is long and low, and has latches at both ends of the lid which itself comes completely off instead of being hinged. This one turns out to be fairly versatile. I use the PA125 for 7.62x39, 5.45x39, 5.56x45, 7.62 Nato, 9mm Makarov. Don't confuse the PA125 with the much larger M548, which is about half again as tall and half again as wide as the PA125. The standard US packaging for the following common US cartridges is as follows, with essentially filled containers, using standard GI cartons, clips, bandos, links, etc, respectively: 7.62 Nato: 200 rounds, 10 ea. 20-round GI boxes in an M19A1 7.62 Nato: 400 rounds, 20 ea. 20-round GI boxes in an M2A1 5.56x45: 1140 rounds, 57 ea. 20-round GI boxes in an M2A1 5.56x45, 840 rounds, in clips in bandos in an M2A1 5.56x45, 800 rounds, linked for SAW in a PA108 45ACP: 1000 rounds, 20 ea. 50-round GI boxes in an M2A1 9MM: 1000 rounds, 20 ea. 50-round GI boxes in an M2A1 Now, if you get 7.62 Nato in the Euro/South American pattern 20-round boxes containing 5 rows of 4 or 4 rows of 5 cartridges (Port, Santa Barbara, etc.), you can fit many more boxes and total rounds per can than is possible with the flat rectangular US-style 20-round "two rows of ten" boxes. There is some variation in dimensions between the Euro and South American 20-round 7.62 Nato boxes, so the box count per can varies a bit. For 5.56x45, if you have LC/Federal XM193 or Wolf boxes (two rows of 10 cartridges), you can get 1140 rounds in an M2A1, and 1400 rounds in a PA108. The Russian 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 come in small semi-cubic boxes of 20 and 30 round respectively. I found that a Barnaul corrugated case of 750 rounds of 5.45x39 will fit nicely in an M2A1, carton and all, and almost fill the can. That's 25 boxes of 30 rounds ea. Further, a PA108 can will hold 960 rounds of 7.62x39, full. That's 48 standard Russian boxes of 20 rounds ea. Using the PA125: 2800 rounds of 5.45x39 in Russian boxes of 30, full. 1920 rounds of 7.62x39 in Russian boxes, full. 1800 rounds in six 300-round battlepacks of SA surplus M193, full. 2000 rounds of 9mm Makarov, 4 ea. sealed poly bags of 10ea. 50-round boxes, and the can is reasonably full. Between 1500 and 1600 rounds of 7.62 Nato in Euro/South American pattern 20-round boxes. All bets are off if you are storing commercial-packed ammo in the cartons containing the styrofoam trays. These are MUCH bulkier, and you will get less per steel can. You'll have to experiment. My point is that if you rigidly stick to the 500 or 1000 count packing, IMO you will waste a lot of space because you'll either leave space in a can and need more cans, or you'll be forced to buy larger, more expensive PA108s and PA125s to fit the cartridge count that you seek, and still not fill the can. For storage, protection of the contents and storage efficiency is the name of the game; filling the container with the maximum number of individual boxes that fit well AND reasonably fill the can reaches that goal. Attached photo shows: [img]http://www.armscenter.com/noah/AmmoCanComposite.jpg[/img] L-top: M2A1 "50 cal" R-top: M19A1 "30 cal" L-bottom: PA108 "SAW" R-bottom: PA125 "40mm" If you have any further specific questions or desire other pix, LMK. HTH, Noah (EDITED to add PA125 interior dimensions and correct spelling)
Link Posted: 2/15/2003 2:55:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/15/2003 3:12:35 AM EST by noah]
Another can sometimes seen is the M61 shown below: [img]http://www.armscenter.com/noah/M61.jpg[/img] This is close to the size of the M19A1, but slightly narrower and a bit longer. Surplus British 7.62 Nato came packed in these and they were prevalent about two years ago, at least in my neck of the woods. The British packed 7.62 Nato linked belts of 250 for their GPMG in these M61s. As it happens, 500 rounds of commercial 9x19 (10 boxes of 50) fit very nicely in an M61, and fill the can. I have Olympic 9x19 stored in these, and some Denel and Danish 9x19 stored in M2A1s. Noah
Link Posted: 2/15/2003 10:40:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/15/2003 10:45:29 AM EST by M4Madness]
Man, Noah, that was a lot of typing! Basically, I am just wanting to store the ammo in lots of 500 or 1000 so that it easier for me to keep track of my "stash". I had considered just storing the ammo loose in the cans, maybe with desiccant. I have 3 Army surplus stores within 20 miles of my home, so the cans should not be too hard to come by. I was just wondering what cans would hold preferably 1000 rounds of various calibers with little extra space. Here's how it appears to me. I should be able to get the following loose rounds in said cans: 1. 1000 rounds 5.56X45 in M2A1 2. 1000 rounds 5.45X39 in M2A1 3. 1000 rounds of .45ACP in M2A1 Now I need to figure out storage for 7.62X39, 7.62NATO, and 12-gauge, all loose. Do you feel that boxed gives you more space than loose? Thanks, Noah, for the very informative post. I sincerely appreciate it.
Link Posted: 2/15/2003 11:10:17 AM EST
M4Madness: I don't store loose rounds, so I cannot answer your question as to the volume taken up by loose rounds vs. boxed rounds. My preference is to store loaded mags in cans, and boxed ammunition in cans. I prefer boxed ammunition because there is more protection to the round in general, and the tip in particular. If the can full of loose rounds is stationary on the shelf, no biggie. If the can is to travel, again, I'd rather the ammo be boxed. But then, so does the military and my Marine training dies hard. To me, it is not difficult to keep track of quantities other than 500 or 1000 as long as you are consistent regarding how what ammo is packed and stored. Labels on the outside of the can, end opposite the latch and on the lid, can readily ID the contents and the quantity. It also helps to keep a log sheet listing the various cartridge types and number of cans and rounds per can. I use different colored file folder tab labels for the differnet cans. Yellow is 7.62x39, fluorescent pink is 5.45x39, fluorescent orange is 5.56x45, medium green is 7.62 Nato, etc. I can tell at a glance what the can contains. Good luck! Noah
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