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Posted: 9/25/2004 4:57:43 PM EST
I have always used Hoppe's as both a bore cleaner and general solvent on my non-AR firearms with no problems.

However, I am getting mixed info on the use of Hoppe's on AR's. The issues seem to be with chrome-lined barrels and anodized aluminum. Some are saying the Hoppe's is fine and others are saying it damages the aluminum, and left over time can damage chrome-lined bores.

In addition to the above, I am sick of the Hoppe's fumes.

IF Hoppe's is truly bad for the AR, what are some good alternatives? Particularly I am interested in Shooters Choice. Right now I use a bore snake, and I would like to go to a product that I can use on the snake to clean the bore, and also use that same product on the bolt carrier, receiver etc. Any suggestios?

I have been using Hoppes with my boresnake, and break-free CLP on the rest of the AR. I have to say the CLP makes a better lube/preservative than a solvent. Plus it seems to collect a lot of lint, hair etc.

Thanks,
IBCGUY
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:45:55 PM EST
Shooters choice is good stuff. The Hoppes should not hurt your bore though. I just wont let anything sit overnight. Sweets is the stuff to watch out for. It works great, but cannot be left in a bore for any length of time.

I also recommend Kroil. It is a good cleaner and very light oil.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 6:57:21 PM EST
I like Ed's Red as a general purpose solvent, though it won't do a thing on copper. You can get it from Brownells or do a google search for instructions on making your own. It's effective and cheap, especially if you make it yourself.
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 7:00:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2004 7:39:47 PM EST by Cobb]
There are those who will tell you Hoppe's is the ambrosia of the gods, and not liking the smell is blasphemy.

Shooter's Choice is great stuff. GM Top Engine Block Cleaner, available at GM Parts Dealers, is chemically the same but costs much less.

All that being said, there is Ed's Red Bore Cleaner which you mix yourself. Great stuff if you want to soak things overnight like a bolt carrier group. The recipe:

1 part ATF automatic transmission fluid
1 part mineral spirits
1 part kerosene
1 part acetone

A considerable cost savings goes with mixing yourself. I use it most of the time while using Shooter's Choice once in a while to break the monotony.

For more info, Google "Ed's Red Bore Cleaner" to get what I've omitted.


Edit: TangoRomeo types faster than I do!
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 7:10:19 PM EST
Thanks for the info guys,

So the shooters choice and the Ed's red will work both as a bore cleaner (not so great on copper) and a general solvent? I am thinking this will be a good stop-gap measure until I can afford a dewey rod w/bore guide and solvent port. Sounds promising.

What is the odor like? I live in a small apartment with crappy ventilation and the Hoppe's is killing me.

IBCGUY
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 7:18:00 PM EST
Just me, but I use Break Free CLP on every part of all my guns. Shooter's Coice is good stuff though. Another good product is TM-25, although I'm not sure if that's exactly what it is called. It comes in either a tube or a syringe type applicator. Gunsite highly recommends the TM-25 for AR-type rifles and carbines(I think it is made by Kleen-Bore).
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 7:39:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sharkman629:
Just me, but I use Break Free CLP on every part of all my guns. Shooter's Coice is good stuff though. Another good product is TM-25, although I'm not sure if that's exactly what it is called. It comes in either a tube or a syringe type applicator. Gunsite highly recommends the TM-25 for AR-type rifles and carbines(I think it is made by Kleen-Bore).



+1 for CLP
Link Posted: 9/25/2004 10:45:47 PM EST
I like my Break Free CLP.

-Tyler
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 6:43:07 AM EST

Originally Posted By ibcguy:
Thanks for the info guys,

So the shooters choice and the Ed's red will work both as a bore cleaner (not so great on copper) and a general solvent? I am thinking this will be a good stop-gap measure until I can afford a dewey rod w/bore guide and solvent port. Sounds promising.

What is the odor like? I live in a small apartment with crappy ventilation and the Hoppe's is killing me.

IBCGUY



Then avoid Ed's Red. Good ventilation is required when mixing and using. CLP is always a good choice for general cleaning but at some point you'll need something to de-copper. There's one product out there, Wipe Out bore foam. I haven't used it personally but from what I understand it doesn't smell too bad and it gets everything, including copper. You end up spraying it in through the muzzle and it goes in like shaving cream or something like that. Keep spraying in until it it starts coming out of the chamber. Let sit 15-20 inutes and patch out. Do a second coat and let it sit overnight and patch out in the morning. No scrubbing at all.

Another product I do have experience with is IOOSO bore paste. It's a non-abrasive, odorless cream, like toothpaste, you apply on a patch. Just patch out. The patch always turns pitch black, but that's OK. Just follow up with some dry patches until all traces of grunge are removed. It works pretty well and will not harm your bore.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 7:34:22 AM EST
I use BreakFree CLP for general purpose cleaning chores and apply it as a lubricant & preservative as the last step in a cleaning proceedure.
I use Shooter's Choice specifically for bore cleaning. I've not had to use anything stronger in my Bushmaster's 20" chrome-lined bore.

For severe copper fouling in a pitted .303British rifle, I've had good results with Remington Bore Cleaner. It works via mild abrasives and without a strong odor.

I think my first bottle of Sweet's 7.62 will also be my last. It has been superseded by Remington Bore Cleaner in my kit.

Good luck.
~Craig
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 8:54:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 11:13:44 AM EST by ibcguy]
JMART, I think I will avoid the Ed's RED for now, if the fumes are bad.

I am holding off on running a rod through the bore until I can get a coated rod with bore guide. For now, that means using the bore snake. The problem I have with using Hoppes on the boresnake is 1). the odor in my poorly ventilated apartment, and 2). The Hoppes gets squeezed out of the boresnake and runs into the receiver, which I understand is not real good considering the receiver is anodized aluminum.

I am hoping that the shooters choice can be used on aluminum safely (meaning without some of the Hoppe's / aluminum issues). I shooters choice ok on the aluminum portions of the AR?

Link Posted: 9/26/2004 11:37:16 AM EST
Ditto on the CLP. I also use Shooters Choice, but only after a a couple of thousand rounds to get the copper out.
Regular Gas fouling will come out with CLP. The more you use shooters choice, the quicker your bristle brush will
wear out too.
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:49:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/26/2004 5:52:26 PM EST by TangoRomeo]
For an excellent clp checkout FP-10
Link Posted: 9/26/2004 5:55:24 PM EST
Personally, I love having the whole house awash in the fumes of Hoppe's #9. If I could get my GF to wear it as cologne, I'd be in heaven!! Glade should come out with a Hoppe's #9 spray air freshener.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 11:30:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By ibcguy:
However, I am getting mixed info on the use of Hoppe's on AR's. The issues seem to be with chrome-lined barrels and anodized aluminum. Some are saying the Hoppe's is fine and others are saying it damages the aluminum, and left over time can damage chrome-lined bores.



Hoppe's is one of the mildest gun cleaners around - it consists mostly of kerosene, ammonium soap, atf, and banana oil (and a couple of other ingredients that I can't remember). Shooter's Choice and several of the other cleaners mentioned will attack copper much more vigorously and may also attack chrome and aluminum, particularly if there are scratches or heavy wear. I would be quite surprised to see any evidence that Hoppe's caused damage to any metal part of a firearm (plastic is a different story).



In addition to the above, I am sick of the Hoppe's fumes.



Heresy. You sound like my wife.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:19:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Neural762:

Originally Posted By ibcguy:
However, I am getting mixed info on the use of Hoppe's on AR's. The issues seem to be with chrome-lined barrels and anodized aluminum. Some are saying the Hoppe's is fine and others are saying it damages the aluminum, and left over time can damage chrome-lined bores.



Hoppe's is one of the mildest gun cleaners around - it consists mostly of kerosene, ammonium soap, atf, and banana oil (and a couple of other ingredients that I can't remember). Shooter's Choice and several of the other cleaners mentioned will attack copper much more vigorously and may also attack chrome and aluminum, particularly if there are scratches or heavy wear. I would be quite surprised to see any evidence that Hoppe's caused damage to any metal part of a firearm (plastic is a different story).



In addition to the above, I am sick of the Hoppe's fumes.



Heresy. You sound like my wife. hr


Hoppes always brings back fond childhood memories of cleaning guns with Dad. How can you not love the smell?
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 3:27:11 PM EST
non toxic cleaner, you can try mp7

MPro7

never used the stuff but a lot say it does clean
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 5:01:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2004 5:04:10 PM EST by ibcguy]
I should clear something up...

I actually don't mind the smell of Hoppe's...in fact, the "aroma" also brings back memories of cleaning guns with dad, hunting trips, etc.

But in my apartment, the smell is just too concentrated...it gives me headacheshooter
IBCGUY
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 6:33:55 PM EST
MMMMMMM...I love the smell of Hoppe's and Tetra-gun in the morning.

Seriously though, I have a similar problem. Best advice, try cleaning at the range. Also, try a foaming solvent. Supposedly, all you do is get the powder fouling out (a few passes with a patch and bore brush), spray down the barrel, let it sit for an hour, and run a patch through.
Wipe-Out
I've been shooting nothing but shotguns for the past year, so I haven't kept up with all the latest products. Just make sure you de-copper every few hundred rounds.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 8:11:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By ibcguy:

Shooter's choice may attack chrome and Aluminum? I hadn't heard that before, please elaborate.

IBCGUY



Shooter's choice contains quite a bit of ammonia, which will etch aluminum any place raw aluminum is exposed via wear or scratches. I believe the effect it has on chrome is much milder, but I usually avoid it in my modern guns. I do use Shooter's Choice on a lot of my older military surplus guns because it does a great job of cleaning out corrosive ammo residue and the prodigious copper fouling left behind in these old, sometimes pitted barrels.
Link Posted: 9/28/2004 2:56:45 PM EST
any of you guys use slip 2000? i just got a can of it, but i have not used it yet. i was recommended it by many good firearms instructors. according to their web site, it's supposed to be a substitute to breakfree clp.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 1:21:10 AM EST
Eds Red is not good in enclosed spaces. I spilled my jar of it the other week and the house still smells of it.

Link Posted: 9/29/2004 4:22:42 AM EST
If I'm not mistaken I saw in a recent magazine Hoppes come out with an odorless solvent? Anybosy else catch this ad? If anybody has used it, please chime in...

My gf gets pissy when she come home from work and the entire apartment smells like #9'
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 11:35:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 7:41:06 PM EST by pigmypuncher]
I've been using the new Hoppes Elite line (no #9 smell!) and it works great on my pistols and rifles. I'd like to compare the rust prevention properties with another popular product, but haven't had time to conduct the experiment yet. Someone already compared several other popular weapon cleaning products (did not include Hoppes Elite) against each other, but I could not find the link. It was very well done, went into great detail on the control and methodology of the testing. The site also included photos shot at various time intervals (and showed rust forming quickly on the WD40 test plate which is an ok cleaner but doesn't protect against rust). If anyone knows the site I'm talking about, please post the link! - FOUND IT: FP10

This isn't the site i'm referring to above but it has some good comparisons of several products

Gun Cleaning Product Tests
____________

Eagles may fly, but weasels don’t get sucked into jet engines!
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 12:09:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By caneau:
MMMMMMM...I love the smell of Hoppe's and Tetra-gun in the morning.

Seriously though, I have a similar problem. Best advice, try cleaning at the range. Also, try a foaming solvent. Supposedly, all you do is get the powder fouling out (a few passes with a patch and bore brush), spray down the barrel, let it sit for an hour, and run a patch through.
Wipe-Out
I've been shooting nothing but shotguns for the past year, so I haven't kept up with all the latest products. Just make sure you de-copper every few hundred rounds.



+1 on cleaning at the range. You'll also find your solvents work better with a warm rifle barrel.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 9:55:23 PM EST
I too am a fan of the Break Free CLP for my cleaning needs. I figure if its good enough for the military, it's good enough for me.
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 7:43:19 PM EST
Copper WILL come out iwth Ed's if you let the bore soak in it. I stuff a ptach into the chamber, and literally pour a tablespoon or two into the bore and let the rifle stand in the rack overnight. lots of green stuff on the forst patch thru. IIRC #9 will do the same thing only it takes three days. Ops
Link Posted: 10/6/2004 9:25:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/6/2004 9:55:21 PM EST by JeffersonS]
So which is better (or has a more proven track record): M-Pro7 cleaner, or Slip2000 Carb Cutter?

Oh, and lets through MC-25 into the mix.
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