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Posted: 1/5/2005 10:15:42 AM EDT
Is there such an animal?  What I'm interested in is a mount that puts the dot directly on top of the front sight when viewed through the rear apperature.  I'm going with a flip front AND rear so they won't be in the way when the optic is being used.

I know that the Larue mounts put the irons in the lower 1/3 of the optic, which is not what I'm interested in.
Link Posted: 1/5/2005 10:26:29 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 6:50:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By in_burrito:
Is there such an animal?  What I'm interested in is a mount that puts the dot directly on top of the front sight when viewed through the rear apperature.  I'm going with a flip front AND rear so they won't be in the way when the optic is being used.

I know that the Larue mounts put the irons in the lower 1/3 of the optic, which is not what I'm interested in.



Having the irons in the lower 1/3 of the optic is how most mounting systems were designed, and for good reason.  This still allows for co-witnessing.  In other words, when you flip up your iron sights, the dot from the Aimpoint will be on top of your FSP when looking through the rear iron sight.  The fact that the irons are in the lower third of the Aimpoint does not change this.

Having a lower mount, to put the irons directly in the middle of the Aimpoint, may negatively impact your ability to have a proper cheekweld, though YMMV, of course.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:22:22 AM EDT
I guess I haven't played with the Aimpoint enough to know all of this.

What I want to be able to do is simply flip up my front & rear sights (which will likely both be Troys) to check the zero of the aimpoint by looking through the rear aperature and finding the dot sitting on top of the front sight.

This is still possible with the Larue mounts?  This would seem to be contradictory to what I've read.  I was under the impression that the Larue mounts were the mount of choice for fixed front & rear so that the sight plane of the irons would be lower than that of the sight plane of the dot.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 8:44:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 9:42:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2005 9:44:37 AM EDT by lt557]

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

The ARMS #22M68 with either the full spacer or the EXT will give you what you want.



Actually that combination will put it in the lower third which is not what he wants.

The ARMS  with the half riser should be the ticket.

Or, of course an EO tech without riser.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 9:44:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2005 9:47:44 AM EDT by Feedingcannibal]

Originally Posted By in_burrito:
I guess I haven't played with the Aimpoint enough to know all of this.



This could very well be the case.  The dot can move within the Aimpoint - wherever the dot is (upper corner, lower, wherever) so goes the bullet.



What I want to be able to do is simply flip up my front & rear sights (which will likely both be Troys) to check the zero of the aimpoint by looking through the rear aperature and finding the dot sitting on top of the front sight.

This is still possible with the Larue mounts?



Yes.


 This would seem to be contradictory to what I've read.  I was under the impression that the Larue mounts were the mount of choice for fixed front & rear so that the sight plane of the irons would be lower than that of the sight plane of the dot.


This is true.  The sight plane of the irons will be lower.  This keeps fixed irons out of the way when using them in conjunction with the Aimpoint.  However, when you look through the irons, the dot of the Aimpoint will co-witness - it will be on the top of your front sight post, because the Aimpoint dot is always zeroed, regardless of its position in the Aimpoint tube.

See this thread for Troy's excellent pics of an Aimpoint co-witness with iron sights.  Notice that the dot moves depending on the shooter's line of sight.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 9:59:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 10:14:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Feedingcannibal:
See this thread for Troy's excellent pics of an Aimpoint co-witness with iron sights.  Notice that the dot moves depending on the shooter's line of sight.



That really cleared everything up.  Grant expect an order shortly when you get your Larue canitlever/Aimpoint ML2 deals worked out!
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 10:17:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By lt557:

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

The ARMS #22M68 with either the full spacer or the EXT will give you what you want.



Actually that combination will put it in the lower third which is not what he wants.

The ARMS  with the half riser should be the ticket.

Or, of course an EO tech without riser.




Negative. The #22M68 and EXT (or full spacer) put the Aimpoint dot just on top of the irons. The mount height is around 1.55. The LT mounts height is around 1.70 and the PRI Xtra high mount is 1.7125. So if the LT and PRI mount puts the Aimpoint dot in the lower 1/3 wouldn't the ARMS #22M68 full spacer or EXT  put it in the 1/2????


C4



Isn't this all about when using the irons ONLY, where in the optic field-of-view the irons sight picture will be?

Spacer height is going to determine where the iron sight picture is going to be within the optic's field-of-view, when used independently of each other.

So what does spacer height have to do with where the dot of the Aimpoint is going to be?  That's determined by how you zero.

If the irons and optic are zeroed for the same distance, when using the irons ONLY the dot of the Aimpoint will be around the tip of the front sight post.  

Is it intended to use the dot of the Aimpoint as an illumination point for the front sight when using irons?  

What would be the purpose of having your irons dead center of your optic field of view?


Chris

Link Posted: 1/7/2005 10:27:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mrcr0603:

Isn't this all about when using the irons ONLY, where in the optic field-of-view the irons sight picture will be?

Spacer height is going to determine where the iron sight picture is going to be within the optic's field-of-view, when used independently of each other.

So what does spacer height have to do with where the dot of the Aimpoint is going to be?  That's determined by how you zero.

If the irons and optic are zeroed for the same distance, when using the irons ONLY the dot of the Aimpoint will be around the tip of the front sight post.  

Is it intended to use the dot of the Aimpoint as an illumination point for the front sight when using irons?  

What would be the purpose of having your irons dead center of your optic field of view?


Chris




All true.  

Cowitnessing is convienent for precision shooting.  I turn the Aimpoint dot down low and use it to illuminate the FSP slightly.  For all other applications, I only use the Aimpoint - the irons are BUIS only.
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 10:40:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2005 10:41:27 AM EDT by mrcr0603]

Originally Posted By Feedingcannibal:
All true.  

Cowitnessing is convienent for precision shooting.  I turn the Aimpoint dot down low and use it to illuminate the FSP slightly.  For all other applications, I only use the Aimpoint - the irons are BUIS only.



This is the case for me too.

Because they are BACKUP, I personally want to have a minimal amount of the irons in my Aimpoint field-of-view, which would be in the lower portion, just enough to use them for BACKUP if needed.


Chris
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 11:08:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:02:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2005 7:04:14 PM EDT by lt557]

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By lt557:

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

The ARMS #22M68 with either the full spacer or the EXT will give you what you want.



Actually that combination will put it in the lower third which is not what he wants.

The ARMS  with the half riser should be the ticket.

Or, of course an EO tech without riser.




Negative. The #22M68 and EXT (or full spacer) put the Aimpoint dot just on top of the irons. The mount height is around 1.55. The LT mounts height is around 1.70 and the PRI Xtra high mount is 1.7125. So if the LT and PRI mount puts the Aimpoint dot in the lower 1/3 wouldn't the ARMS #22M68 full spacer or EXT  put it in the 1/2????


C4



I beg to differ, sir.

This is what the man said.........."I know that the Larue mounts put the irons in the lower 1/3 of the optic, which is not what I'm interested in."

I have the full cantilever set up with my.....ahem, TACPOINT. When you line up the irons it is in the lower third of the tube, and of course the dot moves down as your eyes move down. The guy wants the tube , irons and the dot to be all in the center.

Do we need to break out your glasses again?


Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:16:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2005 7:17:54 PM EDT by C4iGrant]
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:27:04 PM EDT
Obviously I cannot speak for in_burrito, but I believe he asked about having the irons in the center because he was under the impression that this was the only way to cowitness.



Originally Posted By in_burrito:
Is there such an animal?  What I'm interested in is a mount that puts the dot directly on top of the front sight when viewed through the rear apperature.  I'm going with a flip front AND rear so they won't be in the way when the optic is being used.

I know that the Larue mounts put the irons in the lower 1/3 of the optic, which is not what I'm interested in.

Link Posted: 1/7/2005 7:36:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2005 7:36:30 PM EDT by C4iGrant]
Link Posted: 1/7/2005 10:04:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/7/2005 10:05:00 PM EDT by lt557]

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
Have you ever used the PRI or LT Aimipoint mount??? If not then I guess you COULD think that the ARMS #22M68 and full spacer or EXT puts the irons on the lower 1/3 (as you have nothing else to compare it to), but it really doesn't. Did you not read the differences in height that I mentioned???


C4



How is the lower third of any set up hard to figure out? Even a monkey could figure that one out, well...apparently you did not.


Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:59:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 12:38:55 PM EDT
Come on grant is that all you got? Not very sporting.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:30:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:37:30 PM EDT
Weak...... this is not about my occupation.

That would be like me saying that you are making all dealers look like imposing blowhards.

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 1:48:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 3:57:34 PM EDT
Having been an LEO firearms instructor for over a decade, I think that citizens who look to your average cop for gun advice are likely to be either disillusioned or misinformed.  There are notable exceptions, of course.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:15:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 4:16:23 PM EDT by QuarterStickNick]
I have a ARMS 22M68 With an M2 and the front sight post is right in the middle of my scope.My red dot is just above the front post.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:35:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By lt557:
Weak...... this is not about my occupation.

That would be like me saying that you are making all dealers look like imposing blowhards.




Well actually it has a lot to do with your occupation. Most gun owners look to and trust LEO's opinion on guns and gear (USMC03 is a good example).


C4



I dont think so.... Being a LEO does not automaticaly make you a gun expert. Neither does being in the Military. It gives you a basic knowledge. Nothing advanced until you specialize.

Now being a dealer, you should have absolute knowledge in what you sell and give advise on. The same way I have to in regards to Law Enforcement.

Now.... Go mount up an Arms M68 with full riser or cantilever with an Aimpoint or cheap heathen communist made clone.

Looking through the tube, line up both front and rear BUIS with a proper sight picture.

Tell me that does not line up in the lower third of the tube.

Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:50:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 4:52:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:32:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/8/2005 6:33:39 PM EDT by lt557]

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By QuarterStickNick:
I have a ARMS 22M68 With an M2 and the front sight post is right in the middle of my scope.My red dot is just above the front post.




Any questions lt557???



C4



He does not say anything about having it in line with the rear sight.

Thats why I asked you to do it with the sights lined up and report the results.

being how you think I am wrong.


Link Posted: 1/8/2005 6:36:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By Sparky315:
Having been an LEO firearms instructor for over a decade, I think that citizens who look to your average cop for gun advice are likely to be either disillusioned or misinformed.  There are notable exceptions, of course.



I guess after reading some of lt557's posts I see your point....


C4



Me being the exception, of course.

Nice try.  

I hope you dont take none of this to seriously.
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 7:25:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 7:26:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/8/2005 9:40:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

You are correct I do not take anything you say seriously.




Hmmmm..... Is that sensitivity that I detect in your text?
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:23:22 AM EDT
Well I'll tell you what  I  dont like about the 22M68.The rear of my M2 hits the back of the mount.So I am afraid to tighten it up all the way  cause I'm afraid I will break the M2.I think I'm going to go with a LaRue's mount because there is alot more clearance from the mount rings to the bottom of the mount.I wish I knew how to post pics on here so you can see.Grant do you mind if I send you a pic through email so you can see what I'm talking about.Just want to make sure it's not something I did wrong.Thanks!
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 8:31:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:08:12 AM EDT
I have both the ARMS #22M68 w/ full spacer and the Larue Mount.  I currently have the Larue mount on my rifle.  I'm using the Larue because I want my irons in the lower 1/3 of my sight picture.  With my aimpoint mounted with the ARMS #22M68 and full spacer it is more in the middle of the aimpoint when lining up the front and rear sights.

Here is a picture through my aimpoint with the Larue mount.  If you would like I can put the ARMS mount on and take a few pictures too.

Link Posted: 1/9/2005 11:42:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KY23:
I have both the ARMS #22M68 w/ full spacer and the Larue Mount.  I currently have the Larue mount on my rifle.  I'm using the Larue because I want my irons in the lower 1/3 of my sight picture.  With my aimpoint mounted with the ARMS #22M68 and full spacer it is more in the middle of the aimpoint when lining up the front and rear sights.

Here is a picture through my aimpoint with the Larue mount.  If you would like I can put the ARMS mount on and take a few pictures too.

www.arenetworks.com/images/aimpointcowitness.jpg



Thank you!  That is exactly what I needed to see.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 5:52:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 8:00:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/10/2005 8:32:53 PM EDT by lt557]
Here is my Tacpoint mounted.




Here is my sight picture.




That sight picture and the dot on top of the post is in the lower third.
Link Posted: 1/10/2005 10:01:18 PM EDT
33 & 1/3----33 & 1/3----33 & 1/3 = a whole for all intense and purposes. Now in an atempt to solve the delema lets examine which 1/3 the dot is in, and where the top of the sight post is.  They are in the middle 1/3 of the optics lens when in the #22M68 that is to gov't spec.
Jack
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:58:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 5:02:06 AM EDT by C4iGrant]
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 5:32:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 5:36:39 AM EDT by lt557]
.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 5:35:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By lt557:
Here is my Tacpoint mounted.

www.hunt101.com/img/239827.JPG


Here is my sight picture.

www.hunt101.com/img/239829.JPG


That sight picture and the dot on top of the post is in the lower third.




Is that a genuine tacpoint?? Seems funny to me to have a mount that is more money than the optic, but what do I know. Anyways, did you see the pic above yours with LT mount? See how you can just BARELY see the front post? I can see a good section of your front sight tower. Yours is in the middle (sorry to disappoint you)...


C4

P.S. It aslo appears that your camera was not on the same plane as the BUIS (distorting the pic some).



The picture does not lie. Do I need to measure off thirds on the pic for you? Do you recall basic math in elementary school?

You're a tard.

The pic with the LT mounts looks to be in the lower quarter, not the third. Once again that basic math stuff.

Not on the same plane with the BUIS? Look at  picture you can see the front sight through the BUIS and the BUIS is in the center of the pic.

Grant put you glasses backon.....

Link Posted: 1/11/2005 6:00:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 6:30:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

The picture does not lie. Do I need to measure off thirds on the pic for you? Do you recall basic math in elementary school?

You're a tard.

The pic with the LT mounts looks to be in the lower quarter, not the third. Once again that basic math stuff.

Not on the same plane with the BUIS? Look at  picture you can see the front sight through the BUIS and the BUIS is in the center of the pic.

Grant put you glasses backon.....




Actually pics do lie (especially when you take them at a bad angle). Ok so you think I am wrong (fine). What about ALL the OTHER posters that have said the same thing as me???? Are they are wrong as well?


C4



You just cant stand it , can you?

That is an honest picture.

Other poster? I will not comment on.

A poster asked for information. I gave him what I knew through my own experience, and posted a pic to back it up.

This board is to help each other out that have common interests. Which is what I did.

You must think think its a place you can do as you please and impose your view and opinions on everyone.

You being a dealer does not make you the ultimate information dispenser. Some here may think that you are and they are free to do so.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 6:59:33 AM EDT
Can't we all just get along?  Someone post the pic of the bunny with the pancake on it's head before we all hate each other.  
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 7:11:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 7:42:53 AM EDT
The only person I see actively co-signing with you is bookhound.

Big deal.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 7:44:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 8:02:00 AM EDT

So tell me QGQ, what does bookhound know? What, is he special like you too?

I will have to play with you  more later tonight, my Tacpoint and I have to go to work.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 8:07:22 AM EDT
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