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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 1/2/2006 7:29:15 PM EDT
OK crew, my first post! I have a Bushy M4 preban style A2. I want to mount an Aimpoint Comp ML3 on the back of the handguard like if i had the 4-rail handguard.. problem is I hate those. So, I can simply mount this attachment on my current hand guard:

http://dpmsinc.com/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=HG-435

Then I will mount the Comp ML3 to this base:

http://www.mountsplus.com/miva/merchant.mvc?page=MSP/PROD/AIMPOINT-MOUNTS/22M68

Sounds good right? Well the beeotch of time I'm having is... Do I need a spacer? Will that setup work and make it rise up above the irons (forget the term..) , and last but not least... If I do my setup this way will the slope of the M4 hand guard going down towards the muzzle affect the Aimpoint being level or do they have something to correct this if needed even?

I literally have read through every post on mounting aimpoints that was displayed and found nothing so if you have a similar setup please post. Pictures of your aimpoint setup would RULE!!!headbang.gif
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:46:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 7:50:54 PM EDT by doc_Zox]
www.americansforguncontrol.com/leaper/


Leaper mount

i later upgraded to the ARMS 39T
then when the ban ended, i upgraded to a PRI railed tube

the forward goosenecks are OK,
but they do narrow down the sight channel in the carry handle

IMHO, putting a rail on a standard removable hand guard is not going to hold much of a zero
Those rails are designed for flashlights, not optics
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:23:56 PM EDT
Use the Aimpoint goosneck mount with the Aimpoint QRP on an A2 upper, and everything will co-witness perfectly.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:46:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 8:46:32 PM EDT by JosephR]
yeah MasterChief- don't do it the way you originally thought of. Your handguards probably wobble a tiny bit- at least enough to change the point of aim. You'd also have to get the taller ARMS mount to get it to cowitness absolutely and you'd probably have a hard time with that considering the rail wouldn't be at the same height as a flattop anyway.

I've got an Aimpoint carry handle mount sort of like the one in that picture. It is cleaner and doesn't have all of the rails. It's this one:


in case you end up needing it, send me an IM.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:53:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 7:31:18 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By Mike_AK:
Use the Aimpoint goosneck mount with the Aimpoint QRP on an A2 upper, and everything will co-witness perfectly.



I have the QRP mounted on my Inch FAL (L1A1) at the moment, but it mounted pefectly on my Colt flat top(with the QRP spacer) and it was great.

It was cheap and it's a quality piece. I would have no problem using the goodeneck mount. It's no LaRue, but for the money the QRP setup has delighted me.

I have not had any issue with zero repeatability on removeing/reinstalling, but then again I am very careful about noting the exact position.


QRP is good bang for your buck, and very versatile. I'd like one for all my long guns, including my shotguns.


Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:26:17 AM EDT
Thanks JosephR, how much does ones of those cleaner ARMS mounts run and where do i get one from?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:15:47 AM EDT
i have links to places to purchase the aimpoint gooseneck on the sight i posted:
http://www.americansforguncontrol.com/leaper/
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:33:13 AM EDT
Be advised Chief that if you have the M4 handguards on the gooseneck mount will not clear the top guard. If you have regular CAR guards you will be OK.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:25:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By m24shooter:
Be advised Chief that if you have the M4 handguards on the gooseneck mount will not clear the top guard. If you have regular CAR guards you will be OK.



Why wont it fit? What's the difference between the CAR and M4 handguards?
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:34:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 7:40:36 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By MasterChief-M4:

Originally Posted By m24shooter:
Be advised Chief that if you have the M4 handguards on the gooseneck mount will not clear the top guard. If you have regular CAR guards you will be OK.



Why wont it fit? What's the difference between the CAR and M4 handguards?



The true M4 guards are oval with the top and bottom portion sticking out more. Conventional carbine handguards are round, hence the clearance.
this was redesigned for comfort of grip and also to accomodate double aluminum heat shields in the M4 and Colt LE carbines. The Clones often have the oval M4 shape emulating the Colt, but not the double heat shields. (cosmetic and ergonomic emulation only, no functional HG cooling benefit).

In other words if they do not have the double heat shields, you really don't lose much by going to the round handguards.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 7:52:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By _DR:

Originally Posted By MasterChief-M4:

Originally Posted By m24shooter:
Be advised Chief that if you have the M4 handguards on the gooseneck mount will not clear the top guard. If you have regular CAR guards you will be OK.



Why wont it fit? What's the difference between the CAR and M4 handguards?hr


The true M4 guards are oval with the top and bottom portion sticking out more. Conventional carbine handguards are round, hence the clearance.
this was redesigned for comfort of grip and also to accomodate double aluminum heat shields in the M4 and Colt LE carbines. The Clones often have the oval M4 shape emulating the Colt, but not the double heat shields. (cosmetic and ergonomic emulation only, no functional HG cooling benefit).

In other words if they do not have the double heat shields, you really don't lose much by going to the round handguards.



Its a Busmaster M4 A2 with a flash hider and bayonet lug and its less than a year old, i bought right after the ban ended so i can get the 6-position stock if that helps..
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 8:47:40 AM EDT
What _DR said. If you bought it from Bushy or stock off of a Bushy dealer, it probably has the CAR guards. That is usually a request only outfit, meaning the standard guard is the CAR.
If you've ever seen M4 guards the difference would be obvious. As stated, the CAR guards are circular if you look at them on-end. The M4 guards are oval, elongated vertically. Take the guards off and look at them on-end and you should be able to tell what you've got.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 9:32:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By m24shooter:
What _DR said. If you bought it from Bushy or stock off of a Bushy dealer, it probably has the CAR guards. That is usually a request only outfit, meaning the standard guard is the CAR.
If you've ever seen M4 guards the difference would be obvious. As stated, the CAR guards are circular if you look at them on-end. The M4 guards are oval, elongated vertically. Take the guards off and look at them on-end and you should be able to tell what you've got.



Good idea, too bad i dont have that tool... guess i'll just chew up some knuckles and bleed all over my Bushy all to mount a damn red dot!
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:07:31 AM EDT
[unfrozencavemanlawyer] What is this "tool" of which you speak? [/unfrozencavemanlawyer]
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:15:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By m24shooter:
[unfrozencavemanlawyer] What is this "tool" of which you speak? [/unfrozencavemanlawyer]



this tool:
http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/handguards/hgd-tool.asp

Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:36:27 AM EDT
You do know that you don't need that to get the guards off, and it really isn't so arduous as to require skinned up knuckles?
It's really not that big of a deal, just do as the -10 instructs.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:39:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 10:40:56 AM EDT by _DR]

Originally Posted By MasterChief-M4:

Originally Posted By m24shooter:
[unfrozencavemanlawyer] What is this "tool" of which you speak? [/unfrozencavemanlawyer]



this tool:
http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/handguards/hgd-tool.asp




<Rant on>It is my opinion is that those tools are not a good idea. I feel that everyone should be able to completely field strip their M16/AR15 with nothing more than a 5.56mm cartridge at most. </Rant Off>


Link Posted: 1/3/2006 12:15:11 PM EDT
Just some additional info, if you go the gooseneck route you won't need the spacer. If you use a rail then you will need some type of spacer.
Also, if you are having a hard time getting the guard off, remove the upper and orient it vertically with the carry handle towards your left and the FA towards you. Put the rear edge of the upper on the edge of a table or workbench with the FA hanging off, and grip the ring with your fingers on the side that would normally be the bottom. Pull down on the ring and use your left hand to push the lower guard above the ring out of alignment. You can get a better grip this way on the lower part of the ring and the guard and work it out so that it holds the ring down, and you can then lever the upper guard out of the ring. Once it's clear you can completely remove the lower guard.
You really don't need a special tool to remove the guards.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 12:36:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By m24shooter:
Just some additional info, if you go the gooseneck route you won't need the spacer. If you use a rail then you will need some type of spacer.
Also, if you are having a hard time getting the guard off, remove the upper and orient it vertically with the carry handle towards your left and the FA towards you. Put the rear edge of the upper on the edge of a table or workbench with the FA hanging off, and grip the ring with your fingers on the side that would normally be the bottom. Pull down on the ring and use your left hand to push the lower guard above the ring out of alignment. You can get a better grip this way on the lower part of the ring and the guard and work it out so that it holds the ring down, and you can then lever the upper guard out of the ring. Once it's clear you can completely remove the lower guard.
You really don't need a special tool to remove the guards.



What do you mean "gooseneck route"? I've never mounted anything to my only AR before so im a bit of a n00b
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 12:54:01 PM EDT
Master Chief, You can also use one of these SWAN A2 Plus. I know from experience that it will fit a Bushmaster M4. IM me for additional info if you need it.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 1:17:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MasterChief-M4:

What do you mean "gooseneck route"? I've never mounted anything to my only AR before so im a bit of a n00b


Either of the mounts shown by doc Zox or JosephR or the one mentioned by Dilbert. It goosenecks off of the carry handle over the guards.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 4:20:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MasterChief-M4:
Originally Posted By m24shooter:
Just some additional info, if you go the gooseneck route you won't need the spacer. If you use a rail then you will need some type of spacer.
Also, if you are having a hard time getting the guard off, remove the upper and orient it vertically with the carry handle towards your left and the FA towards you. Put the rear edge of the upper on the edge of a table or workbench with the FA hanging off, and grip the ring with your fingers on the side that would normally be the bottom. Pull down on the ring and use your left hand to push the lower guard above the ring out of alignment. You can get a better grip this way on the lower part of the ring and the guard and work it out so that it holds the ring down, and you can then lever the upper guard out of the ring. Once it's clear you can completely remove the lower guard.
You really don't need a special tool to remove the guards.



OK i must be a big pussy or something because i even had my dad TRY and pull that damn ring down... shit... now my hands hurt
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:13:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MasterChief-M4:

Originally Posted By MasterChief-M4:
Originally Posted By m24shooter:
Just some additional info, if you go the gooseneck route you won't need the spacer. If you use a rail then you will need some type of spacer.
Also, if you are having a hard time getting the guard off, remove the upper and orient it vertically with the carry handle towards your left and the FA towards you. Put the rear edge of the upper on the edge of a table or workbench with the FA hanging off, and grip the ring with your fingers on the side that would normally be the bottom. Pull down on the ring and use your left hand to push the lower guard above the ring out of alignment. You can get a better grip this way on the lower part of the ring and the guard and work it out so that it holds the ring down, and you can then lever the upper guard out of the ring. Once it's clear you can completely remove the lower guard.
You really don't need a special tool to remove the guards.



OK i must be a big pussy or something because i even had my dad TRY and pull that damn ring down... shit... now my hands hurt



Make sure you leave the upper still on the lower and put the buttstock on a hard surface that grips, like a carpeted floor. When the rifle is firmly braced, with your dominant hand, push down on the ring hard but evenly so that it is is compressed uniformly, not tilted. Lift the top handguard out from the end clsest to the receiver first, the other one will be easier.

reverse the procedure to install them. They will get easier with time and use. If you try to remove the handguards with the upper off of the lower, and the buttstock not braced, it will be very difficult if they are new and tight. Wear rubber gloves or work gloves with grip if they hurt your hands, and to increase traction. Once you get the hang of it it's not so bad.

Remember, buttstock on the floor, full bodyweight on the ring, it will go down evenly, pop the top handguard out.
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