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Posted: 12/24/2006 9:08:33 AM EST
Hi guys,
this may sound a little bit funny, but I can't shoot with the AR15 anyway.
I have no problems to make good groups with any other weapon with conventional sights. On my HK USP I have the "ghostrings" and the groups are good enough, but that cursed black rifle resists.

I'm talking about shootin at any range up to 100m (never tried longer range). Everytime I have my groups moved several inches left or right from the vertical axis (horizontal is OK). I'm pretty sure I'm giving the cheek badly on the gun-stock, but I'm not able to figure out how to make sure my eye is in the line.
Any tips or hints?

Second issue. When shooting double taps I'm feeling that the gun wants to rotate in my hands a little bit, so the overal muzzle jump is up-right instead of up. I have been told it is because of the rotating bolt. Are here some compensators which eliminates it or not?

Thank you.
Link Posted: 12/24/2006 9:17:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By kubosh:
Hi guys,
this may sound a little bit funny, but I can't shoot with the AR15 anyway.
I have no problems to make good groups with any other weapon with conventional sights. On my HK USP I have the "ghostrings" and the groups are good enough, but that cursed black rifle resists.

I'm talking about shootin at any range up to 100m (never tried longer range). Everytime I have my groups moved several inches left or right from the vertical axis (horizontal is OK). I'm pretty sure I'm giving the cheek badly on the gun-stock, but I'm not able to figure out how to make sure my eye is in the line.
Any tips or hints?


Put the tip of your nose against the charging handle.


Second issue. When shooting double taps I'm feeling that the gun wants to rotate in my hands a little bit, so the overal muzzle jump is up-right instead of up. I have been told it is because of the rotating bolt. Are here some compensators which eliminates it or not?


My guess is you are actually torquing the gun with your hands. How are you holding it?
Link Posted: 12/24/2006 9:37:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By kubosh:
Hi guys,
this may sound a little bit funny, but I can't shoot with the AR15 anyway.
I have no problems to make good groups with any other weapon with conventional sights. On my HK USP I have the "ghostrings" and the groups are good enough, but that cursed black rifle resists.

I'm talking about shooting at any range up to 100m (never tried longer range). Every time I have my groups moved several inches left or right from the vertical axis (horizontal is OK). I'm pretty sure I'm giving the cheek badly on the gun-stock, but I'm not able to figure out how to make sure my eye is in the line.
Any tips or hints?

Second issue. When shooting double taps I'm feeling that the gun wants to rotate in my hands a little bit, so the overall muzzle jump is up-right instead of up. I have been told it is because of the rotating bolt. Are here some compensators which eliminates it or not?

Thank you.


There are a few things that will help with your shooting, but once you figure out what you are doing wrong, you must practice, practice, practice.

1. The first thing you have to do is learn to relax and obtain a comfortable shooting position. You don't want to stretch your neck forward. Bring the weapon to you, not you to the weapon.
2. The second thing you may want to try is to shoot NTCH (Nose-to-charging-handle). That is of course assuming you have a collapsible stock or a shorty stock. This will help you with obtaining the same sight picture.
3. The third thing you may try is to purchase a CAA Saddle if you have a collapsible stock.
4. The fourth thing you may want to try is the KNS Front Sight, which will help with the alignment.
5. The fifth thing, which is the most expensive, is to purchase a Red Dot Sight such as the Aimpoint or EOTech. These sights are parallax free after a certain distance (40 yards I believe), and it will help out with the parallax issues.

I recommend you work on #1 and #2. This way, you actually learn how to shoot correctly. The others are just aids to make you a better shooter.

As far as the issue with the gun rotating. I never had any issues before like that. Just make sure you have the butt stock of the AR firmly up against your shoulder and a good grip with your off hand on the hand guards. Some people like the Vertical Fore grips, but I don't care for them too much.

Good Luck and Happy Holidays. And don't get discouraged if it takes you some time to get it right.
Link Posted: 12/24/2006 2:24:22 PM EST
Square your stance a little, move the stock inward, keep your elbows tucked in. A little bit of static tension on your abdominals and you should be able to stay reasonably on target.

Work on controlled pairs first, then step up to double taps. You must walk before you run, yes?

The nose to charging handle is the way to go until it becomes instinctive.

As for the groups shifting, that may actually be a product of a "close" but not close enough zero.
Link Posted: 12/25/2006 3:02:13 AM EST
Men, thank you for fast reply.

I have the CAR stock on first tooth (almost collapsed). My nose i close to handle, but not exactly the same way. So I'll use it as point of reference.

A RedDot or any kind of scopes is not the way for me. I want use blank M4, because iron sights are on each, you do not rely on betteries... and the blank M4 looks best. :)
Link Posted: 12/25/2006 4:19:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/25/2006 4:26:50 AM EST by Humpy70]
recoil direction is a matter of your preference for shooting. Right handers have recoil toward 1:00 to 1:30. Left hand shooters recoil is 11:00 to 10:30. This is easily confirmed by firing full auto 3 shot bursts on large target.

Make sure the top of you front sight is in the middle of the rear sight opening. Focus on the front sight and let the target go blurry. Use the smaller of the two holes for best sight picture. Battle rifles have very large aperture openings for low light.

You can get a match rear sight with a much small hole to improve sight picture.

A bipod will help alot keeping it on target off bench/prone etc. The extra weight on muzzle will retard muzzle climb as well.
Link Posted: 12/25/2006 4:28:03 AM EST
I believe the pri qc brake has some ports to compensate for the "rightward" movement of the muzzle as well as the standard "upward" movement.

Check out any of the dealers on the site here....I am pretty sure PK FIrearms had them instock as of last week anyway
Link Posted: 12/25/2006 7:32:56 AM EST
Kubosh I like your style " Old School" We dont need no stinkin aimpoints! As a combat vet RVN Rember the basics Breathing is vry important Take a deep breath let some out and SQUEEZE THE TRIGGER ar s dont have the best triggers but you can make it work Try some dry firing No ammo around !!! Please even buy some 223 snap caps a dummy cartridge thing usally red in color. Practice single shot get up close so you can see where you hitting, or have some one spot for you with a spotting scope and tell you where your hitting. Save the double taps for later lear the basics Get a Shot gun news and find the page with Freds Military M-14 rifle stocks ad He has some very good shooting Information. Becoming a Rifleman He has some aids for sale (1) a 25Marmy Qualification test (AQT) targets Plus other shooting training aids try www.fredsm14stocks.com with his help he can turn you into "a rifleman" Good luck have fun moses
Link Posted: 2/26/2007 12:32:14 PM EST
Hi,
thank you for all inputs. On Saturday, I was on the range and probably figured out my aiming problem.

OK, I shot only on 50m range, but there was a big improvement. While standing and shooting off hand I got less than 8cm 10shots groups.

1) I was holding the forearm too close (in the middle of the handguard). I moved the hand to the very end of the handguard - close to the sight. The gun is much more stable now.

2) Unbelievable, but probably was caused by cheap eye protection. It's profile is too robust to allow me to give nose-to-the-charging handle properly. And maybe their cheap surface somehow distort the image.
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