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Posted: 4/29/2015 5:44:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 5:46:01 AM EDT by HammerForged]
I love Noveskes N4 profile but hate the price tag. Also hate light weight profiles and government is retarded. This is just the ticket. As soon as they sell BFH ones ill be all over them.
They are supposed to weigh the same as government.
</a>" />
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 6:18:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HammerForged:
I love Noveskes N4 profile but hate the price tag. Also hate light weight profiles and government is retarded. This is just the ticket. As soon as they sell BFH ones ill be all over them.
They are supposed to weigh the same as government.
http://<a href=http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/joshuamarcreid/Mobile%20Uploads/3e4bbaf28c0eec531b69168b7dde405d_zpsvwpp6w1o.jpg</a>" />
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This.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 6:38:30 AM EDT
Cool!
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 7:33:32 AM EDT
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 7:36:43 AM EDT
I want to build a rifle just so that I can use one of those barrels.

What I really should do is shoot out an existing barrel are replace it with one of those.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 7:43:50 AM EDT
sweet looking barrel for sure.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 7:49:10 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.
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I think there is plenty of info out there about the life of CHF barrels. So what if I never shoot it out. This is America and im allowed to have nice things, regardless of your expert opinion. You should go start a thread complete with all your scientific data on why people shouldnt waste an extra 50$ on CHF barrels.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 7:49:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 7:50:38 AM EDT by HammerForged]
Double tap.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 7:55:10 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.
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And it should be HFB.....not BHF.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 8:01:31 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4:

And it should be HFB.....not BHF.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4:
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.

And it should be HFB.....not BHF.



http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Barrel-Stripped-p/bcm-brl-s-mid-16%20bfh.htm

Um, dude, thats what BCM calls it.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 8:32:23 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HammerForged:



http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Barrel-Stripped-p/bcm-brl-s-mid-16%20bfh.htm

Um, dude, thats what BCM calls it.
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Originally Posted By HammerForged:
Originally Posted By M4:
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.

And it should be HFB.....not BHF.



http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Barrel-Stripped-p/bcm-brl-s-mid-16%20bfh.htm

Um, dude, thats what BCM calls it.

Um.....no shit. It's stupid.

"Barrel Hammer Forged"?

Do you also say things like "Vehicle All Terrain (VAT)" or ATV?

It's really no big deal.....but no less dumb.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 8:39:59 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4:

Um.....no shit. It's stupid.


"Barrel Hammer Forged"?


Do you also say things like "Vehicle All Terrain (VAT)" or ATV?


It's really no big deal.....but no less dumb.
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Originally Posted By M4:
Originally Posted By HammerForged:
Originally Posted By M4:
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.

And it should be HFB.....not BHF.



http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Barrel-Stripped-p/bcm-brl-s-mid-16%20bfh.htm

Um, dude, thats what BCM calls it.

Um.....no shit. It's stupid.


"Barrel Hammer Forged"?


Do you also say things like "Vehicle All Terrain (VAT)" or ATV?


It's really no big deal.....but no less dumb.


Oh my bad bud, I thought u was saying thats what I call it lol
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 8:45:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 8:46:09 AM EDT by M4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HammerForged:


Oh my bad bud, I thought u was saying thats what I call it lol
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Originally Posted By HammerForged:
Originally Posted By M4:
Originally Posted By HammerForged:
Originally Posted By M4:
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.

And it should be HFB.....not BHF.



http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Barrel-Stripped-p/bcm-brl-s-mid-16%20bfh.htm

Um, dude, thats what BCM calls it.

Um.....no shit. It's stupid.


"Barrel Hammer Forged"?


Do you also say things like "Vehicle All Terrain (VAT)" or ATV?


It's really no big deal.....but no less dumb.


Oh my bad bud, I thought u was saying thats what I call it lol



Sorry about the derail here.

I agree, that barrel looks like a winner to me....for all the reasons you mentioned.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 9:00:19 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.
View Quote

QFT.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 9:03:36 AM EDT
Now...if they would just release those dang keymod rail covers!
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 9:05:33 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pointman12:

QFT.
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Originally Posted By pointman12:
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.

QFT.


QFO.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 9:40:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 9:45:08 AM EDT by Fooboy]
It you hate LW barrels you are

OP a Gucci gun guy?
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 9:56:36 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.
View Quote


yeah...maybe....Eric Kincel says that the chrome lining adheres to cold hammer forged barrels better....
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 9:58:37 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4:

And it should be HFB.....not BHF.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4:
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.

And it should be HFB.....not BHF.

It's BCMs marketing to distinguish them think about it ....BFH....get it?.....it's funny.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 10:34:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 10:37:13 AM EDT by HammerForged]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Fooboy:
It you hate LW barrels you are

OP a Gucci gun guy?
View Quote


I dont know what a Gucci gun guy is, maybe you're saying mine sit in the safe? I don't see (or feel) how medium weight profile is too heavy to carry around. Why do I have to be .
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 10:39:08 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 9divdoc:


yeah...maybe....Eric Kincel says that the chrome lining adheres to cold hammer forged barrels better....
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Originally Posted By 9divdoc:
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.


yeah...maybe....Eric Kincel says that the chrome lining adheres to cold hammer forged barrels better....


There is no question in the barrel making community that CHF (Cold Hammer Forging) produces a superior "battle rifle" barrel, for a number of reasons.

What is in question, as these threads always show, is whether someone else thinks you need those properties.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 10:45:43 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:


There is no question in the barrel making community that CHF (Cold Hammer Forging) produces a superior "battle rifle" barrel, for a number of reasons.

What is in question, as these threads always show, is whether someone else thinks you need those properties.
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Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Originally Posted By 9divdoc:
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.


yeah...maybe....Eric Kincel says that the chrome lining adheres to cold hammer forged barrels better....


There is no question in the barrel making community that CHF (Cold Hammer Forging) produces a superior "battle rifle" barrel, for a number of reasons.

What is in question, as these threads always show, is whether someone else thinks you need those properties.


Lol I know right, I posted this to share with everyone (cause its fucking awesome) and I get a bunch of opinions on how my opinion is wrong lol
No wonder people like Molon stop posting.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 10:48:51 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HammerForged:


Lol I know right, I posted this to share with everyone (cause its fucking awesome) and I get a bunch of opinions on how my opinion is wrong lol
No wonder people like Molon stop posting.
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Originally Posted By HammerForged:
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Originally Posted By 9divdoc:
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.


yeah...maybe....Eric Kincel says that the chrome lining adheres to cold hammer forged barrels better....


There is no question in the barrel making community that CHF (Cold Hammer Forging) produces a superior "battle rifle" barrel, for a number of reasons.

What is in question, as these threads always show, is whether someone else thinks you need those properties.


Lol I know right, I posted this to share with everyone (cause its fucking awesome) and I get a bunch of opinions on how my opinion is wrong lol
No wonder people like Molon stop posting.


Your tag line
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 10:51:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 10:57:11 AM EDT by HammerForged]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 9divdoc:


Your tag line
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 9divdoc:
Originally Posted By HammerForged:
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Originally Posted By 9divdoc:
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.


yeah...maybe....Eric Kincel says that the chrome lining adheres to cold hammer forged barrels better....


There is no question in the barrel making community that CHF (Cold Hammer Forging) produces a superior "battle rifle" barrel, for a number of reasons.

What is in question, as these threads always show, is whether someone else thinks you need those properties.


Lol I know right, I posted this to share with everyone (cause its fucking awesome) and I get a bunch of opinions on how my opinion is wrong lol
No wonder people like Molon stop posting.


Your tag line


Yeah too bad im not molon
You jack legs won't ever run me off. Lol
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 11:00:54 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Yeah too bad im not molon
You jack legs won't ever run me off. Lol
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Hey...I earned my air assault OJT
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 11:29:49 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HammerForged:


I think there is plenty of info out there about the life of CHF barrels. So what if I never shoot it out. This is America and im allowed to have nice things, regardless of your expert opinion. You should go start a thread complete with all your scientific data on why people shouldnt waste an extra 50$ on CHF barrels.
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Originally Posted By HammerForged:
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.


I think there is plenty of info out there about the life of CHF barrels. So what if I never shoot it out. This is America and im allowed to have nice things, regardless of your expert opinion. You should go start a thread complete with all your scientific data on why people shouldnt waste an extra 50$ on CHF barrels.

Why not post this info for us to read. I have never read anything that clearly proves CHF barrel life and why we should pay the $50 more...

The burden of proof falls with those that drink the CHF cool aid, not the other way around...

Link Posted: 4/29/2015 11:35:47 AM EDT
looks nice. They come out with an 11.5" i will be all over it.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 11:47:03 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4Tank:

Why not post this info for us to read. I have never read anything that clearly proves CHF barrel life and why we should pay the $50 more...

The burden of proof falls with those that drink the CHF cool aid, not the other way around...

View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4Tank:
Originally Posted By HammerForged:
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.


I think there is plenty of info out there about the life of CHF barrels. So what if I never shoot it out. This is America and im allowed to have nice things, regardless of your expert opinion. You should go start a thread complete with all your scientific data on why people shouldnt waste an extra 50$ on CHF barrels.

Why not post this info for us to read. I have never read anything that clearly proves CHF barrel life and why we should pay the $50 more...

The burden of proof falls with those that drink the CHF cool aid, not the other way around...



Ok. Here is some from TOS by one of the head guys at BCM. Named Phreakish. Also this thread is not about CHF barrels and if they are worth it. Also google is your friend.

... the cold hammer forge process creates what we call residual stress. Basically, the steel is still under pressure once it's finished. For an applied load, the actual stress of the material starts from a negative (verus zero), and therefore can take much more load prior to hitting yield. How much more is highly dependent on many variables. This is especially true for the bore, where the vast majority of the cold work, and therefore the residual stress, is retained. We effectively create a barrel that has a stronger-than-normal (even though hardness is still close to the same) liner with a considerable wall thickness. The grain of the metal will also be refined and we'd expect to see long grains (since barrel blanks start short and end long) on the surface which are tightly packed together. The impact it has on overall expansion should be minimal, and given that the residual stress state is fairly uniform from end-to-end, we wouldn't expect to see any warpage when heated versus if the profile were less than uniform. We still have the same effects from other discontinuities, but all things equal the forged barrel still has the strength advantage with the residual stresses. The tighter grain structure also gives a superior surface for applying chrome and the higher quality surface will resist corrosion better due to the tightly packed grains (similar to the corrosion inhibition seen on polished surfaces, even when untreated). These are the major benefits of the hammer forged barrels: they resist wear better due to the residual stresses and better surface finish and the hard chrome tends to lay itself down in a more uniform and dense coating which increases the benefits offered by the chrome. . . .[also from the same thread and BCM employee, ESK is now talking about stainless barrels] . . .Rifles that see very low rounds per minute usage can see longevity that rival a CHF barrel, but those that have a fun switch or shoot high volumes in short times will see shorter life from a stainless barrel vs CHF.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 11:58:12 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4Tank:

Why not post this info for us to read. I have never read anything that clearly proves CHF barrel life and why we should pay the $50 more...

The burden of proof falls with those that drink the non-CHF cool aid, not the other way around...

View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By M4Tank:
Originally Posted By HammerForged:
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.


I think there is plenty of info out there about the life of CHF barrels. So what if I never shoot it out. This is America and im allowed to have nice things, regardless of your expert opinion. You should go start a thread complete with all your scientific data on why people shouldnt waste an extra 50$ on CHF barrels.

Why not post this info for us to read. I have never read anything that clearly proves CHF barrel life and why we should pay the $50 more...

The burden of proof falls with those that drink the non-CHF cool aid, not the other way around...



"Stop disliking what I like!"
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 11:58:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 12:02:57 PM EDT by HammerForged]
I was given a link so I figured I’d come over and respond.Looks like you guys pretty much have the concept. The bore gets slightly smaller as it moves to the muzzle end of the barrel.I did not come up with the concept and it is not new. So why have you not seen taper bores in the AR platform before?? Probably because using hammer forged barrels is a fairly new thing in the AR rifles. Taper bore is something that is only realistically done by the hammer forging process. The mandrel that is used to put the rifling in the barrel is slightly tapered and this leave the tapered dimension in the barrels as the forging machine beats the blank around the mandrel. So what does it offer you? Taper bore gives you a slight boost in velocity over a non-taper bore barrel and it help negate any potential accuracy issues caused by chroming the bore since it is not always a consistent thickness.Taper bore does not extend the life of the barrel our barrels last longer because they are hammer forged and made from a different spec material that was engineered for machine guns. Hammer forging work hardens the material and the chrome is thicker than a normal barrel. The barrel steel is the same used on the MAG58, 240, M249, MK46, and MK48 machine guns it is also the same barrel material and process used on the 1/2moa sniper rifles FN won the FBI contract with and that are still in service. The FN SPR sniper rifles use hammer forged hard chrome lined taper bore barrels to get ½ moa accuracy and this is the same barrel specs and processes I have done to my barrels. So who else uses this?Obviously FN, who has the time, money, and resources to do the research to find this type of barrel steel and proof out this type of process and specs. FN hands down manufactures the best machine guns in the world and there isn’t even a close second in this field there isn’t even any two companies you can combine that has as much institutional knowledge as they do in making beltfed machine guns. HK also taper bores their hammer forged barrels for all their rifles.So why do I use it?Well I didn’t really think much about hammer forging and taper bore before I was sent to work doing combat systems development and operational testing for SOCOM. There I worked on several weapons programs one that used these barrels on one of the rifles we were testing. I got to observes millions of dollars worth of R&D and testing that was done and got to see hundreds of thousands of rounds run through these weapons and got to see firsthand that these barrels did indeed last allot longer and on a whole shoot better than standard button rifled barrels that were chrome lined. The difference was significant and I wondered why the hell no one made these barrels for the M4/AR rifles so I figured I would bring them to market myself. I have over 20 years of service and have shot out plenty of M4’s in my time and can with full confidence say this is a improvement I’ve seen it first hand.ThanksMontynd here is more.


This qoute is from Monty on Weapon Evolution. He is the owner of Centurion arms and an active duty SEAL.
Now you non-CHF dudes put up some info for me to read.....

Link Posted: 4/29/2015 12:01:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HammerForged:
I love Noveskes N4 profile but hate the price tag. Also hate light weight profiles and government is retarded. This is just the ticket. As soon as they sell BFH ones ill be all over them.
They are supposed to weigh the same as government.
http://<a href=http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/joshuamarcreid/Mobile%20Uploads/3e4bbaf28c0eec531b69168b7dde405d_zpsvwpp6w1o.jpg</a>" />
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That looks awesome.

I'd have no problem with their standard button-rifled barrel. "BHF" may theoretically be superior, but IMHO they are not worth the extra $70 over their standard offerings. They are not going to shoot any better, and BCM's standard barrels have been documented to last a long time (Filthy 14).

At the end of the day, to each his own on the CHF vs. Button or Cut argument. Buy what you want and what helps you sleep better.


Link Posted: 4/29/2015 12:05:26 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Muad:

That looks awesome.


I'd have no problem with their standard button-rifled barrel. "BHF" may theoretically be superior, but IMHO they are not worth the extra $70 over their standard offerings. They are not going to shoot any better, and BCM's standard barrels have been documented to last a long time (Filthy 14).


At the end of the day, to each his own on the CHF vs. Button or Cut argument. Buy what you want and what helps you sleep better.




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Originally Posted By Muad:
Originally Posted By HammerForged:
I love Noveskes N4 profile but hate the price tag. Also hate light weight profiles and government is retarded. This is just the ticket. As soon as they sell BFH ones ill be all over them.
They are supposed to weigh the same as government.
http://<a href=http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/joshuamarcreid/Mobile%20Uploads/3e4bbaf28c0eec531b69168b7dde405d_zpsvwpp6w1o.jpg</a>" />

That looks awesome.


I'd have no problem with their standard button-rifled barrel. "BHF" may theoretically be superior, but IMHO they are not worth the extra $70 over their standard offerings. They are not going to shoot any better, and BCM's standard barrels have been documented to last a long time (Filthy 14).


At the end of the day, to each his own on the CHF vs. Button or Cut argument. Buy what you want and what helps you sleep better.






At least you're nice about it.

Link Posted: 4/29/2015 12:17:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HammerForged:


Ok. Here is some from TOS by one of the head guys at BCM. Named Phreakish. Also this thread is not about CHF barrels and if they are worth it. Also google is your friend.

... the cold hammer forge process creates what we call residual stress. Basically, the steel is still under pressure once it's finished. For an applied load, the actual stress of the material starts from a negative (verus zero), and therefore can take much more load prior to hitting yield. How much more is highly dependent on many variables. This is especially true for the bore, where the vast majority of the cold work, and therefore the residual stress, is retained. We effectively create a barrel that has a stronger-than-normal (even though hardness is still close to the same) liner with a considerable wall thickness. The grain of the metal will also be refined and we'd expect to see long grains (since barrel blanks start short and end long) on the surface which are tightly packed together. The impact it has on overall expansion should be minimal, and given that the residual stress state is fairly uniform from end-to-end, we wouldn't expect to see any warpage when heated versus if the profile were less than uniform. We still have the same effects from other discontinuities, but all things equal the forged barrel still has the strength advantage with the residual stresses. The tighter grain structure also gives a superior surface for applying chrome and the higher quality surface will resist corrosion better due to the tightly packed grains (similar to the corrosion inhibition seen on polished surfaces, even when untreated). These are the major benefits of the hammer forged barrels: they resist wear better due to the residual stresses and better surface finish and the hard chrome tends to lay itself down in a more uniform and dense coating which increases the benefits offered by the chrome. . . .[also from the same thread and BCM employee, ESK is now talking about stainless barrels] . . .Rifles that see very low rounds per minute usage can see longevity that rival a CHF barrel, but those that have a fun switch or shoot high volumes in short times will see shorter life from a stainless barrel vs CHF.
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Originally Posted By HammerForged:
Originally Posted By M4Tank:
Originally Posted By HammerForged:
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.


I think there is plenty of info out there about the life of CHF barrels. So what if I never shoot it out. This is America and im allowed to have nice things, regardless of your expert opinion. You should go start a thread complete with all your scientific data on why people shouldnt waste an extra 50$ on CHF barrels.

Why not post this info for us to read. I have never read anything that clearly proves CHF barrel life and why we should pay the $50 more...

The burden of proof falls with those that drink the CHF cool aid, not the other way around...



Ok. Here is some from TOS by one of the head guys at BCM. Named Phreakish. Also this thread is not about CHF barrels and if they are worth it. Also google is your friend.

... the cold hammer forge process creates what we call residual stress. Basically, the steel is still under pressure once it's finished. For an applied load, the actual stress of the material starts from a negative (verus zero), and therefore can take much more load prior to hitting yield. How much more is highly dependent on many variables. This is especially true for the bore, where the vast majority of the cold work, and therefore the residual stress, is retained. We effectively create a barrel that has a stronger-than-normal (even though hardness is still close to the same) liner with a considerable wall thickness. The grain of the metal will also be refined and we'd expect to see long grains (since barrel blanks start short and end long) on the surface which are tightly packed together. The impact it has on overall expansion should be minimal, and given that the residual stress state is fairly uniform from end-to-end, we wouldn't expect to see any warpage when heated versus if the profile were less than uniform. We still have the same effects from other discontinuities, but all things equal the forged barrel still has the strength advantage with the residual stresses. The tighter grain structure also gives a superior surface for applying chrome and the higher quality surface will resist corrosion better due to the tightly packed grains (similar to the corrosion inhibition seen on polished surfaces, even when untreated). These are the major benefits of the hammer forged barrels: they resist wear better due to the residual stresses and better surface finish and the hard chrome tends to lay itself down in a more uniform and dense coating which increases the benefits offered by the chrome. . . .[also from the same thread and BCM employee, ESK is now talking about stainless barrels] . . .Rifles that see very low rounds per minute usage can see longevity that rival a CHF barrel, but those that have a fun switch or shoot high volumes in short times will see shorter life from a stainless barrel vs CHF.

None of that is proof.

That is an opinion taken from a BCM employee with his theory's and who has a vetted interest in selling CHF barrels. Don't get me wrong I love BCM, but I am not drinking what he is selling here.

Until a test is done kind of like Lucky Gunner did with their steel case ammo test will it actually come close to proving anything.

Even if they took as little as two CHF vs two standard button rifled barrels the theory of the cool-aid they are pushing might have some actual backing to their product... In my eyes anyway.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 12:23:45 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By M4Tank:

None of that is proof.

That is an opinion taken from a BCM employee with his theory's and who has a vetted interest in selling CHF barrels. Don't get me wrong I love BCM, but I am not drinking what he is selling here.

Until a test is done kind of like Lucky Gunner did with their steel case ammo test will it actually come close to proving anything.

Even if they took as little as two CHF vs two standard button rifled barrels the theory of the cool-aid they are pushing might have some actual backing to their product... In my eyes anyway.
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Originally Posted By M4Tank:
Originally Posted By HammerForged:
Originally Posted By M4Tank:
Originally Posted By HammerForged:
Originally Posted By samuse:
BFH is of no tangible advantage, you just want it because it costs more.


I think there is plenty of info out there about the life of CHF barrels. So what if I never shoot it out. This is America and im allowed to have nice things, regardless of your expert opinion. You should go start a thread complete with all your scientific data on why people shouldnt waste an extra 50$ on CHF barrels.

Why not post this info for us to read. I have never read anything that clearly proves CHF barrel life and why we should pay the $50 more...

The burden of proof falls with those that drink the CHF cool aid, not the other way around...



Ok. Here is some from TOS by one of the head guys at BCM. Named Phreakish. Also this thread is not about CHF barrels and if they are worth it. Also google is your friend.

... the cold hammer forge process creates what we call residual stress. Basically, the steel is still under pressure once it's finished. For an applied load, the actual stress of the material starts from a negative (verus zero), and therefore can take much more load prior to hitting yield. How much more is highly dependent on many variables. This is especially true for the bore, where the vast majority of the cold work, and therefore the residual stress, is retained. We effectively create a barrel that has a stronger-than-normal (even though hardness is still close to the same) liner with a considerable wall thickness. The grain of the metal will also be refined and we'd expect to see long grains (since barrel blanks start short and end long) on the surface which are tightly packed together. The impact it has on overall expansion should be minimal, and given that the residual stress state is fairly uniform from end-to-end, we wouldn't expect to see any warpage when heated versus if the profile were less than uniform. We still have the same effects from other discontinuities, but all things equal the forged barrel still has the strength advantage with the residual stresses. The tighter grain structure also gives a superior surface for applying chrome and the higher quality surface will resist corrosion better due to the tightly packed grains (similar to the corrosion inhibition seen on polished surfaces, even when untreated). These are the major benefits of the hammer forged barrels: they resist wear better due to the residual stresses and better surface finish and the hard chrome tends to lay itself down in a more uniform and dense coating which increases the benefits offered by the chrome. . . .[also from the same thread and BCM employee, ESK is now talking about stainless barrels] . . .Rifles that see very low rounds per minute usage can see longevity that rival a CHF barrel, but those that have a fun switch or shoot high volumes in short times will see shorter life from a stainless barrel vs CHF.

None of that is proof.

That is an opinion taken from a BCM employee with his theory's and who has a vetted interest in selling CHF barrels. Don't get me wrong I love BCM, but I am not drinking what he is selling here.

Until a test is done kind of like Lucky Gunner did with their steel case ammo test will it actually come close to proving anything.

Even if they took as little as two CHF vs two standard button rifled barrels the theory of the cool-aid they are pushing might have some actual backing to their product... In my eyes anyway.


Read my other post. Monty had actual experience in testing it out.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 12:34:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 12:40:21 PM EDT by HammerForged]
Also

HK 416 real world user super high round count (CHF barrel)

KAC test high round count holding exceptional accuracy (CHF)

Disclaimer: I own both types of barrels. I don't mind standard. But I do love me some CHF
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:57:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 1:59:10 PM EDT by sharkbait]
Originally Posted By HammerForged:
I love Noveskes N4 profile but hate the price tag. Also hate light weight profiles and government is retarded. This is just the ticket. As soon as they sell BFH ones ill be all over them.
They are supposed to weigh the same as government.
http://<a href=http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f165/joshuamarcreid/Mobile%20Uploads/3e4bbaf28c0eec531b69168b7dde405d_zpsvwpp6w1o.jpg</a>" />
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Agree...........Hopefully they shoot just as good as a Noveske N4
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 3:13:55 PM EDT
The non CHF guys always amuse me. It's just the same small handful every time though.

Tests proving the durability of CHF? Have you heard of this tiny little company called FN, perhaps? CHF has long been put to the test in LMGs in particular. There's a reason why FN's M249 is CHF.

Full auto or not. Carbine or LMG. More durable is more durable.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 4:31:24 PM EDT
Anyway, 'BHF', meaning 'Barrel, Hammer Forged' is simply DOD-speak. IOW, its the way the military describes things, and its very logical.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 5:01:01 PM EDT
Yes, not to jump off topic but naming an item and then listing any descriptors after it creates a better organized filing system.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 5:08:10 PM EDT
Larue, ADCO, and BCM filthy 14 all have demonstrated high round counts in cut rifled barrels.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 5:10:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By KILLERB6:

What I really should do is shoot out an existing barrel are replace it with one of those.
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That will add, what, $3,300 to the price of the barrel?

Rob
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 8:21:39 PM EDT
Why is it Midlength if its 14.5? The purpose of Middy is to properly gas a 16"
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 8:39:32 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By stanag4179:
Why is it Midlength if its 14.5? The purpose of Middy is to properly gas a 16"
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"Optimized" for 5.56, so it won't cycle some .223.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 11:25:44 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By stanag4179:
Why is it Midlength if its 14.5? The purpose of Middy is to properly gas a 16"
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You should really try a proper 14.5 middy. My BCM 14.5 middy is one of my nicest shooting carbines.

As for standard vs. hammer forged, I have both. I have both Daniel Defense and BCM hammer forged barrels, and standard BCM barrels.

My standard BCM barrels have so far shown slightly better accuracy than the CHF ones. Not a true fair comparison, due to different lengths, rails systems, muzzle devices and profiles. But my BCM lightweight 14.5" has shown almost the same accuracy capability as my 16" Larue stealth (although, they prefer different bullets).

So for me, I am okay with either for a 14.5" or a 16". For a SBR though, I feel the CHF barrels are probably worth the extra cost.
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 12:56:33 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
The non CHF guys always amuse me. It's just the same small handful every time though.

Tests proving the durability of CHF? Have you heard of this tiny little company called FN, perhaps? CHF has long been put to the test in LMGs in particular. There's a reason why FN's M249 is CHF.

Full auto or not. Carbine or LMG. More durable is more durable.
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This
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 1:00:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2015 1:05:52 AM EDT by HammerForged]
I have a noveske and a bcm midlength 14.5. They both have ran on weak ass cheap 223 just fine. PMC and a little bit of wolf. May not be the case for everyone but mine have been extremely reliable. Im going to go ahead and guess that most people knocking 14.5 midlengths and CHF barrels have no firsthand experience with either one.
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 1:31:29 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By azoutdoorsman:
Larue, ADCO, and BCM filthy 14 all have demonstrated high round counts in cut rifled barrels.
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No one is disputing that...what we are discussing is the fact that CHF barrels have better properties to begin with and hold those properties longer, especially under hard use.

I can't find it (so anecdotal) but in one of the many Filthy 14 discussions, either Pat or Paul made the comment "...and it wasn't even a BFH barrel..."

IIRC they were lamenting the fact that they didn't think to document the accuracy of Filthy in the beginning so they could also document her deterioration with round count. Either way, it was something to the effect of even after X thousands rounds, Filthy was exhibiting acceptable "carbine class accuracy" and it wasn't even a BFH barrel.
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 1:59:33 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By HammerForged:
I have a noveske and a bcm midlength 14.5. They both have ran on weak ass cheap 223 just fine. PMC and a little bit of wolf. May not be the case for everyone but mine have been extremely reliable. Im going to go ahead and guess that most people knocking 14.5 midlengths and CHF barrels have no firsthand experience with either one.
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The 14.5" mids being finicky with ammo is another topic that I've long scratched my head about as well.

Mind you, I know that some manufacturers had some issues with their 14.5" mids early into their inception. And I've also heard of a few problems with them and weak ammo here and there since then as well.

With that said, I've never been able to personally recreate these "problems," and at this point, have a lot of trigger time with a large sample size of them.

I picked up my first 14.5" mid in 2011, and since then, have personally owned over a dozen - and used over another dozen that weren't mine.

I've solely owned/used 14.5" mids just from DD, BCM, Noveske and Spikes though...and 90 plus percent of them have been from just DD and BCM - though BCM is clearly relevant here.

I currently have two BCM 14.5" mids that have literally been fed nothing but weak PMC Bronze since day one. Literally nothing else. Beyond that, I even run Sprinco Blue springs and H2 buffers in them - from the very first round fired there as well.

Well, if weak ammo was an issue with BCM 14.5" mids, then the H2 buffer and stiffer spring would create even more of a problem. And I can tell you that those BCM 14.5" mids of mine have run 100 percent flawlessly since day one. One of them in particular is my favorite AR to shoot.

All my other 14.5" mids have seen a ton of PMC Bronze as well, and I also run Sprinco Blue springs and H2 buffers in all of them as well.

I still occasionally hear about someone here or there running into some issues with weak ammo and 14.5" mids, but as said, I have literally never been able to recreate this "problem."

I'll add that I never shoot steel cased stuff though - so no personal experience there. PMC Bronze is my "cheap plinking ammo."

Though I also hear of many who run steady diets of steel in their 14.5" mids (BCM included) without a hiccup as well.
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 2:47:12 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By HammerForged:


This
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Originally Posted By HammerForged:
Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
The non CHF guys always amuse me. It's just the same small handful every time though.

Tests proving the durability of CHF? Have you heard of this tiny little company called FN, perhaps? CHF has long been put to the test in LMGs in particular. There's a reason why FN's M249 is CHF.

Full auto or not. Carbine or LMG. More durable is more durable.


This


I was always lead to believe that the CHF process was used because it's cheaper and quicker than button-rifling, especially for mass-production. They're often costly due to the high initial investment for the machinery, and the whole propaganda people keep reiterating. "CHF will last 10 times longer than a normal barrel, even though they're both chrome-lined!"

They're cheaper to produce. After they pay off the machines, the extra cost is just more profit for the hype.

Frankly, those barrels will only last as long as the chrome does. If the chrome conforms better to the CHF and handles the heat better due to increased steel density, then great, it'll last a bit longer. In the end, for the amount of ammo it will take to shoot out a chrome-lined AR barrel,(To beyond mil-spec, meaning 4 MOA) the money spent on a replacement barrel is friggin' CHUMP CHANGE.

If you can afford to shoot out a barrel, you can afford a new one... And everything needed to replace it.

Now back on topic, that new barrel looks sweet, and I could care less if it's CHF or not. Wonder if it would classify as an H-BAR for some of the more asinine gun laws...? I don't recall hearing anything about fluting being a no-no for heavy barrels.
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 2:58:53 AM EDT
It's cheaper to manufacture a Camry than a Ferrarri...I can tell you that the Camry will be more reliable and last longer.

Extreme comparison pertaining to manufacturing costs aside, the point is, that relates nothing to durability.

And another fact that is often left out of these CHF conversations is the consistency that the CHF process yields. It is a far more consistent process.
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 4:40:09 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By azoutdoorsman:
"Optimized" for 5.56, so it won't cycle some .223.
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Originally Posted By azoutdoorsman:
Originally Posted By stanag4179:
Why is it Midlength if its 14.5? The purpose of Middy is to properly gas a 16"
"Optimized" for 5.56, so it won't cycle some .223.


Or even quality 5.56 in some. Remember BCM's earlier 14.5" mids? Just not something someone should expect to function reliably in adverse conditions.
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