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Posted: 2/12/2006 6:44:10 PM EDT
I have RRA 2 stage NM trigger in one of my M4 rifles that I want to be able
to adjust how much 1st stage I have. plan is to adjust the 1st stage down untel
all thats left is when you depress the trigger it only moves about 1/16-1/8th inch
then hits 2nd stage. more of a single stage that brakes like a 2 stage.
I like this trigger and think if I can do this it will help out my double taps and
follow up shots a huge amount.

I don't want to replace the trigger so here is what I came up with, is this a bad idea
or should I be ok doing this? what I want to do is 1. drill tap and install a set screw
in either the rear end portion of the trigger (some how that it would not interfere with
the safty).
or 2. remove the pistol grip and drill and tap beside the hole for the grips bolt.
#2 seems the easer and better place for a set screw.
anyone have any other ideas that might work or thoughts on installing a set screw
in either location.
seems a simple and easy enuff mod I don't beleave it would harm anything?
any thoughts on this?
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:47:00 PM EDT

you got a two stage. live with it...
or learn to shoot it the right way.
don't dink with it or try to cheat it to make it more of a single stage.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:58:26 PM EDT
Not sure what you mean, but I can double tap just fine with mine. Are you allowing the trigger to reset all the way each time you fire a round?
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:00:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hk940:

you got a two stage. live with it...
or learn to shoot it the right way.
don't dink with it or try to cheat it to make it more of a single stage.


You stand a very good chance of ruining the trigger by doing what you want.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:47:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 4:48:54 AM EDT by Debose03]
I know what you mean guys but I know of no single stage triggers that would
"feel" like i'm thinking this 2 stage will if I do this.
if anyone knows of a single stage that will brake like a 2 stage then thats what i'm looking for.

what i'm wanting out of this is very little trigger movement, the only way I can describe this is
if you have a RRA 2 stage.. when you put your finger on the trigger and pull taking up the 1st
stage now your at the second stage.. now if you let off and then take it up again 3 or 4 times
feel how much room you have before you hit the second stage? now pull the trigger taking up
more than half or 3/4 of the 1st stage and all you have is that tiny bit of nice easy soft movement
before hitting the second stage. just a jently squeeze more and it would fire. now if there was a
set screw taking up 3/4 of the 1st stage and you just let off the trigger from firing it the trigger would reset with very little movement and your right back ready to fire again with only a lite press.

that small amount of 1st play would be very soft and easy to move and feel. and the way the 2nd
stage brakes on the RRA 2 stage this would allow for very quick repeat shots with very little finger movement.
reliable single stage triggers I have used seem to always have a steady somewhat heavy pull that when you put your finger on the trigger ready to fire there is no movement or give untel you start to
pull and when you do start to pull you have a good amount of weight a short distance untel it brakes and fires. or you have a very very lite trigger with no amount to pull and it's ready to fire
as soon as you bearly touch or press the trigger.
so far as far as I know the only really reliable single stage is the stock trigger and it can't be adjusted to feel like I described the feeling i'm looking for. the others that maybe can are not reliable.
so i'm stuck like you said, live with my 2 stage or just keep trying to get better at my quick repeat shots. or try my set screw idea. i'm confident in my skills that I can drill and tap the lower receiver beside the hole for the grip and use a fine thread allen head set screw long enuff to reach up to the bottom back portion of the trigger , use blue loctight and make the adjustments needed and I don't think it would interfere in the operation of the trigger other than adjusting out some of the 1st stage. so i'm needing to know if this will have any other affects or if I do this correctly will it do what i'm wanting?
I have many rifles many AR's and many makes of triggers but i'm only wanting to do this on 1 of my M4's that I shoot in this manner.
see a few years ago I destroyed the joints in my trigger finger in a accident it moves fine and I can move it quickly but I have short movement if this helps understanding my doing this.
thanks to all for your advice and input.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:33:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 5:34:45 AM EDT by HighlandMac]
Get an Accuracy Speaks single stage trigger and quit trying to figure out new ways to fuck up a perfectly good two stage trigger!

Or buy a Jewel trigger which is a truely adjustable trigger.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 6:14:26 AM EDT
I would not mess with it. Send it to White Oak and have them tune the trigger. You will likely get better results.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 6:45:05 AM EDT
I know exactly what you are talking about and trying to do. I have an Anschutz smallbore target rifle with their 2 stage trigger. Anschutz triggers can be adjusted in any number of ways, including 1st and 2nd stage weights, 1st travel, and 2nd stage sear engagement. But they were designed with those adjustments in mind.

Unfortunately, what you have was not really meant to be so adjustable. The best advice you have been given is to call John Holliger of White Oak Precision and explain what you want. he will be able to tell you if it is possible or not.

BTW, my Anschutz trigger is set to 3 oz on the first stage and .5 oz on the second. It is, however, extremely crisp and controllable and completely safe. They are an engineering marvel.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 7:43:03 AM EDT
If your trigger is a real two stage match trigger it should break and reset at the second stage. You know about pressing the trigger and the take up. Then you hit the second stage “wall”. You break thru the wall and the hammer falls. Notice the trigger will move back a little more. First I would work to minimize as much movement past the second stage break as possible. Get it down to 1/10-1/32. any more and you can damage the bearing surfaces on the hammer and trigger. You can do this with your allen head idea or some epoxi in the front of the lower just before the trigger. Back to the trigger… So the hammer falls and then the bolt shoves it back and it’s grabbed by the disconnector. Idealy as you slowly release the trigger and it begins to move forward the disconnector will let it go and it will catch the trigger at the second stage break. STOP WHEN YOU HEAR THE “CLICK” and keep pressure on the trigger. If your at the break silght pressure will be needed to make the gun fire. If there is any travel your in the first stage and the disconnector is breaking two late. So you may need to tune the disconnector to release the hammer at exactly the point you hit the second stage. It’s simple. Just remove a tiny bit of metal with a jewelers file emery cloth and go slow and take your time.
Above all don’t take your finger off the trigger during the firing sequence..
Say the first stage takes 3# of pressure.
The second stage wall takes 2# more for a total of 5#.
You ease back the trigger at 4.5# of pressure and it clicks.
All you have to do is apply ½# more pressure to get it to break again.

Link Posted: 2/13/2006 11:29:55 AM EDT
thanks guys, I have had trigger work done by John and he does a great job he did my trigger we are talking about.
it brakes at 3 1/4 he did a good job on it. like I described..normal 1st stage travel, 2nd stage brakes completly crisp with no over travel. when you hit that second stage just a little pressure and it brakes and fires.. no creep no extra over travel. 1st stage is my only problem.
if you ever had crushed knuckles and bone in a finger you know what i'm talking about needing
as lite and little movement as possible while still be completly safe and reliable.
i'll try john and see what he can do.
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