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Posted: 10/30/2003 7:57:31 PM EDT
Since Adco is now PRI dealer, I wanted to get parts for my mk 12 mod 0 project.
I printed some pics of various SPRs that I'd been collecting, and took them to Steve @ Adco Firearms. He had in-stock the Gen III tube, flip-up sights, ARMS rail, etc. All I needed was the barrel. I'd been looking for as much info as I could find on the "real" SPR barrel, but as you know it's very hush-hush. Steve said he could make a fairly similar copy of the SPR collar and brake. I've seen many other items his machine shop has turned out, so I wasn't skeptical in the least. But this turned out better than I could have expected.        Thread protector is non-functional. Now, I'm not claiming that this is exactly like the real SPR, or that the bbl is true SPR profile. But, it's a good copy and classifies as my poor man's SPR. The barrel is stiff and much lighter than the 20" HBAR it started as. I don't have a scale to give you an exact weight, but it's very handy and has the look I was after. I already had the M3LR and the ARMS mounts. But I want to get some med height rings(do away with the #19), and a ring cap and rail. I'm going to have Steve bead-blast the barrel. He asked if I wanted it coated black, but I like the SS look with the natural carbon on the PRI tube. I just want to subdue it a little. The hard-chromed bolt carrier is also an Adco job. Very nice. Kudos to the Adco team. I'll be doing more business with them. I heard a rumor that Adco will soon carry KAC parts... Looking forward to the mk12 mod 1 build! |
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Posted: 10/30/2003 8:21:07 PM EDT
[#1]
HOW MUCH????????
Looks fantastic by the way! |
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Posted: 10/30/2003 8:28:05 PM EDT
[#2]
very nice...
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Posted: 10/30/2003 8:35:57 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: HOW MUCH???????? Looks fantastic by the way! $625 for barrel (contoured, cut, threaded) PRI sight, brake and collar (pre-ban config). The PRI and ARMS parts are listed at [url]www.adcofirearms.com[/url] BTW, it [b]only took 1 week[/b] from the time I took in the pics, to delivery. |
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Posted: 10/30/2003 8:38:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Nice! Can I bump fire it? I'll bring my own Wolf.
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Posted: 10/31/2003 4:11:49 AM EDT
[#5]
Looks nice but how does it shoot.
Is that front sight not pinned/bolted in in your pictures? What is the balance like with the MSS stock? |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 4:22:57 AM EDT
[#6]
I'm taking it to the range tomorrow. Can't wait to try it out.
In the close-ups, it's not bolted together. Those pics came from Steve @ [url=www.adcofirearms.com]Adco[/url]. I'm very happy with the balance. The bipod throws it off, but without it, shooting offhand should be a breeze. I'm anxious to lose a little weight in the scope mounting, but other than that, it's excellent. |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 4:27:49 AM EDT
[#7]
what did you use for barrel dimensions?
behind gas block? dia.? infront of gas block dia? (I assume length is 18"). thanks |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 4:42:58 AM EDT
[#8]
It's right around 18" OAL.
Profile is .82" stepped down to .75", then to .72". Surprisingly light. |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 4:55:15 AM EDT
[#9]
very slick. looks like nice quality work.
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Posted: 10/31/2003 5:57:16 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: I'm taking it to the range tomorrow. Can't wait to try it out. In the close-ups, it's not bolted together. Those pics came from Steve @ [url=www.adcofirearms.com]Adco[/url]. I'm very happy with the balance. The bipod throws it off, but without it, shooting offhand should be a breeze. I'm anxious to lose a little weight in the scope mounting, but other than that, it's excellent. Are you taking it out to Adams, if so let me know and I'll bring mine and we can shoot together. |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 6:00:14 AM EDT
[#11]
I may have to take mine over to him and have him chop the barrel to 18 and do the brake. It looks great!!!
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Posted: 10/31/2003 6:07:58 AM EDT
[#12]
I'm going to try to get it on paper at Adams tonight, if I can leave early enough. Stupid, time-change...gets dark too early now.
Dave, I'd love to see your SPR with the fake can. Looks nice in your pics. How's it shoot? Tomorrow, I'm heading to Lima for the precision shooters get-together. Check out the link in The Armory forum. [url]http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=5&t=171615[/url] |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 6:08:45 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: I may have to take mine over to him and have him chop the barrel to 18 and do the brake. It looks great!!! You won't be disappointed. |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 6:19:50 AM EDT
[#14]
I just checked out Adco's webpage. They have really gotten busy since ownership changed hands a year or so ago. The guy doing Adco's machining is a fella named Rick Schuster. I meet him at the local rifle range about 1-1/2 ago before the SPR craze really took off. He had made several really nice free float tubes for some of the Match Gun guys in our club's, high power club and some really nice adjustable sight towers for the AR's. I have been to his shop and he is very well equipped and is bascially a one man operation, at least he was then. He was selling his sight towers to Brownells and at Camp Perry. I was initally talking to him about making some Pictinny rails to add to an inexpensive Carbon Fiber free float tube. And He suggested making the entire tube from aluminum. We never got together on it, I think I bought my first SPR Tube at a gunshow, and then soon after that got the real SPR tube.
Rick does excellent work. Adco's has always been my favorite gun store in town. They really are't your typical hunter oriented gunstore, it has always had a more tactical, LE flavor. It was orginally owned by a retired Police Officer. Now a young fellow named Steve has taken it over and really kicked it up quite a few notches!!!! Prices are really reasonable. |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 6:40:34 AM EDT
[#15]
Hey Rick,
I haven't shot it with the Fake Can yet, been real busy with school, but without it, shooting the 75grain Black Hills Adco has, (only place around I've found it) it shoots a 1/2 to 3/4 inch at 200yds when I can do my part. The first month I got it back from my gunsmith I shoot allot and was getting reall good with it. I don't think I've shootit in 4 months now. Got to remedy that!! It really doesnt like anything much under 65 grains. It's really opens up with 55 grainers. |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 7:19:29 AM EDT
[#16]
That looks great man. Where at in Ohio are you guys from? I live outside Youngstown and am always lookin to shoot with other AR' guys.
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Posted: 10/31/2003 7:24:39 AM EDT
[#17]
Toledo
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Posted: 10/31/2003 7:33:17 AM EDT
[#18]
I go to YSU, Im guessin you go to Toledo. We don't have "tactical" gun stores around here, is it worth the drive to ADCO?
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Posted: 10/31/2003 7:59:31 AM EDT
[#19]
Looks great! I have a very similar setup.
Quoted: I'm going to have Steve bead-blast the barrel. He asked if I wanted it coated black, but I like the SS look with the natural carbon on the PRI tube. I just want to subdue it a little. I went the same way with my SPR clone (from ArmyINF/Lane St. John). I had the bbl blasted, and was going to have it K-Coated, but after seeing the contrast of the OPS brake and blasted CLE bbl, I had to leave it that way. [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=13382[/img] |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 8:02:18 AM EDT
[#20]
I goto Owens Community College and yes Adco is worth the the visit if your going to buy something, if your just going to look, there isn't allot in the showroom, but he can get most anything you want quickly.
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Posted: 10/31/2003 8:13:55 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: I'm going to try to get it on paper at Adams tonight, if I can leave early enough. Stupid, time-change...gets dark too early now. Dave, I'd love to see your SPR with the fake can. Looks nice in your pics. How's it shoot? Tomorrow, I'm heading to Lima for the precision shooters get-together. Check out the link in The Armory forum. [url]http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=5&t=171615[/url] wow.. I'd like to try that! |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 8:23:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Looks great! I have a very similar setup. Quoted: I'm going to have Steve bead-blast the barrel. He asked if I wanted it coated black, but I like the SS look with the natural carbon on the PRI tube. I just want to subdue it a little. I went the same way with my SPR clone (from ArmyINF/Lane St. John). I had the bbl blasted, and was going to have it refinished, but after seeing the contrast of the PRI brake and blasted CLE bbl, I had to leave it that way. [url]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=13382[/url] Very nice setup. |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 8:25:23 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: wow.. I'd like to try that! I'll see you tomorrow. [;)] |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 9:30:34 AM EDT
[#24]
For anyone who's curious, the price for the upper as posted (minus optics) is approx. $1,575.00.
$625 - bbl assy $320 - PRI tube $190 - ARMS rail $95 - ARMS #40 rear sight $90 - PRI Gas Buster handle $165 - Hard-chrome carrier with bolt $90 - RRA upper The barrel assy alone, with PRI sight, brake and collar, is $625. Add another $25 for coating the bbl black. |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 9:40:26 AM EDT
[#25]
What time might you make it to Adams? I would enjoy meeting a fellow local arfcommer and witnessing the baptism!
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Posted: 10/31/2003 9:41:53 AM EDT
[#26]
"Nice! Can I bump fire it? I'll bring my own Wolf."
IS THAT SOME KIND OF SICK JOKE!? This looks like a high end rifle, Wolf need not apply. EXCELLENT RIFLE That is impressive work on the brake/collar. |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 10:16:45 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: What time might you make it to Adams? I would enjoy meeting a fellow local arfcommer and witnessing the baptism! Well, I'm going to try to leave work at 4. I might be there around 4:15 or 4:30. Not gonna leave much time for shooting, but I just want to get it on paper for now. Going to be tough to do that tomorrow at 300yds. |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 4:27:34 PM EDT
[#28]
how much for just the break, can the brake be machined so you have external threads let me know thanks
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Posted: 10/31/2003 7:26:45 PM EDT
[#29]
MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE SEBERGER BRAKE IS PATENTED. I COULD BE MISTAKEN.
REGARDLESS, IF AND WHEN HE FINDS OUT, I DON'T THINK MR SEBERGER IS GOING TO TAKE TOO KINDLY TO HIS PRODUCT BEING KNOCKED OFF. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 8:14:28 PM EDT
[#30]
Ya Know I doubt if he ever made them in Stainless steel either but I could be wrong. There is a class 3 dealer here in NC that had them ( stainelss brakes and collars)on his table at the Fayetville show saying they were OPS brakes. The things that make ya go hummmmmmmmmmmm. Personally I am going with the Troy industries brake and collar with thread protector because 1. it is affordable and 2. You can actuly get them and 3. eventually I will get one of their REAL suppresors and not just sit around dreaming of an OPS.
IPSC_GUY sends |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 8:28:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Ya Know I doubt if he ever made them in Stainless steel either but I could be wrong. There is a class 3 dealer here in NC that had them ( stainelss brakes and collars)on his table at the Fayetville show saying they were OPS brakes. IPSC_GUY sends Mine is the real thing and it is coated, but I believe it is stainless under the coating. And the 4-port OPS brakes for sale on Brownells are stainless, so I'm sure those are the real deal. |
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Posted: 10/31/2003 8:30:26 PM EDT
[#32]
I'm sure it's changed just enough as not to be an infringment.
It is only an infringement if its an exact copy. |
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Posted: 11/1/2003 1:00:06 AM EDT
[#33]
TheRicker,
My name is John and I live here in Sylvania, Ohio and I can almost throw a rock at ADCO. Well, okay, maybe I can't throw it....Anyway, I'm just about to buy an RRA AR from Steve, but I haven't been able to find a rifle range around here. Wife demands that I at least have a place to shoot it. I also have a .308 that's just collecting dust. I'm hoping you can clear up a few things. I was told that Adams only had trap and skeet ranges and Steve actually told me that there was a 6 month waiting period just to be able to join there anyway. Another guy said that he thought they had public rifle range shooting on Sundays. Is any of this correct? I would greatly appreciate answers as no one EVER answers the phone at Adams. I am desperate to find a place to shoot and local guys to shoot with. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. -John [email protected] |
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Posted: 11/1/2003 4:41:25 AM EDT
[#34]
John, do you know where Adams is? Drive by and look for a black or a red pickup truck out in front of the club house most afternoons. The owner is the a fellow named Ike Cottrell or his wife Cindy. She is the secretary and he is the treasurer. They are usually there most afternoons.
They can give you the low down on the waiting list if it still exist. I will email their phone numbers off line. |
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Posted: 11/1/2003 5:41:52 AM EDT
[#35]
ALL OPS INC BRAKES AND COLLARS ARE STAINLESS.
IF IT'S WHO I'M THINKING ABOUT, THE GUY IN NORTH CAROLINA HAD REAL OPS INC BRAKES AND COLLARS. HE BOUGHT SEVERAL FROM US, ALONG WITH OUR SPR CLONE BARRELS. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 11/1/2003 5:54:13 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: It's right around 18" OAL. Profile is .82" stepped down to .75", then to .72". Surprisingly light. Can you weigh it without the scope? I would love to know what "surprisingly light" actually measures at. Thanks |
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Posted: 11/1/2003 5:59:28 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: The barrel assy alone, with PRI sight, brake and collar, .... Is the collar itself the gas block with the gastube going through the PRI sight? |
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Posted: 11/1/2003 6:52:48 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: It's right around 18" OAL. Profile is .82" stepped down to .75", then to .72". Surprisingly light. Great minds think alike, as I had CLE do mine 0.85 / 0.75 / 0.73 [;)]. I never weighed it, but it is way lighter than my 20" KAC SR15 Match. |
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Posted: 11/1/2003 6:59:30 AM EDT
[#39]
A REAL 18" [APPROX] SPR BARREL WEIGHS 38 OUNCES.
BY CONTRAST, A 14.5" M4 BARREL WEIGHS 28 OUNCES. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 11/1/2003 8:26:01 AM EDT
[#40]
SEBERGER PATENT:
GUN, MUZZLE BRAKE U.S. PATENT NO. 5,476, 028 DEC 19, 1995 WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] |
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Posted: 11/1/2003 9:35:55 AM EDT
[#41]
Since the threaded ring does not come off, it is different enough that it most likely isn't a patent infringment. If he was making exact copies from an original that would surely be an infringment.
I wonder is Wes, concerned about missed sales or Mr. Seeberger's rights? Engage Protective Flame Suit!!! |
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Posted: 11/1/2003 10:34:22 AM EDT
[#42]
I don't see how it would hurt Wes's sales. He's outta the real deal, and Phil isn't letting anymore out for a while. He's still trying to get caught up with all of the orders he has.
-Cap'n |
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Posted: 11/1/2003 10:58:26 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Since the threaded ring does not come off, it is different enough that it most likely isn't a patent infringment. If he was making exact copies from an original that would surely be an infringment. I wonder is Wes, concerned about missed sales or Mr. Seeberger's rights? Thanks for posting that, so I don't have to. Seems petty to me. Do you think that if TheRicker had bought everything but the brake from MSTN & gave them free publicity, Wes would still feel compelled to stomp this post? Why not take this private? Wes has a lot of respect around here, and rightly so. He's lost a little of my respect as a result of this thread, for what it matters. Either way, sweet rig - Nice job TheRicker, ADCO and Schuster Mfg. If I ever get some money saved up, I want to build an SPR very similar to this one, complete with a 'Fake Brake'. [:)] |
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Posted: 11/1/2003 11:02:40 AM EDT
[#44]
I'm not going to worry about it.
These pieces were made from a picture. They probably aren’t the same dimensions, aren’t interchangeable, and wont work with the other items the Ops Inc pieces were made for. I don’t believe anyone would complain. It wouldn’t be worth the time or money to go after something, that isn’t an exact copy, could never replace the imitated parts, is not and will never be any competition for either civilian or military sales. Is there a BATF approval letter for the muzzle thing? No, but its on a pre-ban rifle so it doesn’t matter either. updated - 3/15/04 The brakes are inconsequential, the issue was over and done when I hung up the phone with Mr. Seeberger a few months ago. He doesn't care. The similarity between the 2 pieces ends at the silhouette. |
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Posted: 11/1/2003 11:08:10 AM EDT
[#45]
I don't think you guys are reading Wes correctly on this one.
Capn_Crunch is right, Wes probably doesn't even sell many of the 2-port brakes. It doesn't seem like he gets many of them, and the ones he does get he sells with his uppers, not as a separate piece. Trust me, I had to pay a premium to get the real thing second hand (since I couldn't afford an MSTN build), and I figure mine originally came off an upper assembled by Wes. However the owner was willing to 'part out' with the brake and collar. So I don't think Wes is trying to protect his bottom line, I just figure he is trying to protect his suppliers. No offense to Adco or to anyone that would buy one of their clone brakes, but one could view it as a bit underhanded to copy such a unique design. Personally I don't really look at it that way, but I didn't design the thing. Considering how hard it is to get the OPS 2-port brake, I figure it was bound to happen. FWIW, the Adco build does look great, even if it is a copy. |
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Posted: 11/1/2003 11:20:01 AM EDT
[#46]
So I don't think Wes is trying to protect his bottom line, I just figure he is trying to protect his suppliers. Anyone who has any intent to buy the real thing, would not consider a fake. No offense to Adco or to anyone that would buy one of their clone brakes, but one could view it as a bit underhanded to copy such a unique design. Personally I don't really look at it that way, but I didn't design the thing. Considering how hard it is to get the OPS 2-port brake, I figure it was bound to happen. I’m pretty sure it is a copy of the look, and the design traits are very different. It’s a decoration. A customer came in the shop handed me a picture and said “Can you make something that looks like this?”. I’m not turning these things out by the 100’s, (only made the one shown) and I don’t even advertise them. I don’t have the time other vendors do to hang out here and debate something as pointless as this, as my customers come first. Please debate away, which if anything will introduce more people to my site and the quality products I offer from names such as Rock River Arms, ARMS, GG&G, PRI, Benchmade, etc.. If anyone wants to hear from me please drop me a line [email protected] [img]http://www.adcofirearms.com/images/opsbrake.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 11/1/2003 1:45:14 PM EDT
[#47]
WTF happened to my thread?!
Knock off all the crap, and let's have fun. BTW, didn't Colt get a bug up their ass about everyone calling the copies of the M4 the same? THOSE were copies. They made RRA change the name to "R4". This little brake and collar are nothing more than a little kid wanting to be like his big bro. Nothing more. These things are tool steel, not SS. The dims are all wrong. The OPS suppressor will NOT fit (not even the fake one). I just wanted to see if they could come close. The japanese airsoft people did the same, but they used the real thing to copy. And, IIRC, Wes want so far as to [i]defend[/i] them for trying. Call me a poser, but sheesh. Lighten up. |
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Posted: 11/1/2003 2:17:35 PM EDT
[#48]
One last thing on the cloning of Seeberger parts, Here are two quotes from my thread on a fake suppressor:
Quoted: THE GUY THAT BUILDS THE SPR'S FOR CRANE MAKES A PERFECT COPY OF THE SPR SUPPRESSOR ALREADY. CONTACT ME DIRECTLY AT - [email protected] FOR HIS NUMBER. WES GRANT [URL]MSTN.BIZ[/URL] Quoted: THEY ARE NOT CHEAP, BUT THEY ARE IDENTICAL IN APPEARANCE, EXTERNAL FINISH, ETC. JUST UNDER $200, AS I RECALL. CONTACT ME DIRECTLY AND I'LL PASS ON HIS NUMBER. HE DOES NOT CARE TO HAVE IT PUBLISHED, BTW. WES This was after I posed about a board member making me a copy for $45.00. No complaining about infringment here, granted it isn't a working suppressor, but it is a copy, one that Wes was willing broker. but the brake that Adco has isn't a fully functional copy either. Can you say duplicitous? [img]http://davkenrem.net/tsprcan1.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 11/1/2003 2:47:01 PM EDT
[#49]
Well, fucking whatever. I shot the thing today, and we were banging 300 yard headshots like a 5.56 jackhammer. Is it the same as a true SPR? Probably not...but it's solid, accurate, and does what it was intended to do.
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Posted: 11/1/2003 2:52:55 PM EDT
[#50]
You went to the Lima SHootout eeh, and the Adco Spr shoot great?
What ammo were you using? |
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