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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/13/2005 4:51:29 PM EDT
Hey guys, I was wondering what kind of accuracy these things are capable of. How much of a negative effect does the primative sights have on it? I like the retro look but I need about 2-3 MOA out of it.
If do get an upper, it will probably be from Sarco. I've head mixed opinions about these uppers. Are they shootable or are they worn out? Thanks for any help!

Couch-Commando
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 4:57:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2005 5:02:24 PM EDT by mobius]
I don't know about the SARCO ones.........but the M16A1 (1/12 twist) upper I bought from CDNN is brand new, it was in a sealed plastic bag and had grease/cosmoline on it......and it is accurate as my A2. around 2 inch groups at 100 yards.

the next thing I'm going to do is get a bottle of NORRELL gray-black finish and redo the lower on it so it matches the color of the upper..........already have the A1 buttstock and pistol grip, so it's just one step away from looking like a "retro" M16A1
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 5:02:14 PM EDT
I was shooting one today and it was under 3 moa all day. 1 in 12 barrel shooting M193 and winnie whitebox.

The sights aren't primative, they are more in line with what should be on a field sight than the A2 sights. Much less to go wrong.

Plus, just change the A1 apeture to an A2 apeture, and you get the improved sight pscture in a rugged set it and forget it battle sight.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 5:05:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ar-wrench:
I was shooting one today and it was under 3 moa all day. 1 in 12 barrel shooting M193 and winnie whitebox.

The sights aren't primative, they are more in line with what should be on a field sight than the A2 sights. Much less to go wrong.

Plus, just change the A1 apeture to an A2 apeture, and you get the improved sight pscture in a rugged set it and forget it battle sight.



Well, that makes me feel a lot better. Also, any other companies selling slabside colt M16 uppers other than Sarco? If you have a sarco, how much do you like it?
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 5:51:14 PM EDT
CDNN has them, Fulton Armoty has/had some. CMMG (supporter of ARFCOM) has them from time to time.

They are not difficult to find if you aren't in a hurry.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 6:37:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/13/2005 6:40:03 PM EDT by WIZZO_ARAKM14]
Go to CDNN's website and download their catalog.

On page 100, they have used M16A1 uppers for $269
On page 101, they have new M16A1 uppers for $399 and Excellent Used for $299.

These should be good to go, condition-wise.

WIZZO

EDIT: Just so you know, they call them SP1 uppers, but they are M16A1. They are small pivot pin uppers (where the pivot pin is the same size as the take-down pin) that will fit any standard lower out there except for the big hole Colts.
Link Posted: 8/13/2005 9:06:51 PM EDT
I would prefer the slabside version. CDNN certainly seems the place to go for the M16A1. The only company that seems to sell colt M16 uppers is Sarco. I've heard good and bad things about the finish. If it is just as accurate as any other M16 or M16A1 upper I might get it. I just don't want something thats been shot out. Thanks for the help guys.

Couch-Commando
Link Posted: 8/14/2005 6:01:20 AM EDT
I have no idea about the condition of the bores on these surplus uppers ,
but they ARE made to Govt. specifications.

If the barrels are ok, and you use the proper ammo (55gr) they are MORE than
capable of 3MOA accuracy.

If you have "young" eyes , the A1 sights work just fine too
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 5:04:25 PM EDT
shouyld I post this in AR discussion so I can get more replies?
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 11:17:53 AM EDT
Couch, I just ordered the new M16A1 upper from CDNN also. I prefer the A1 sights for tactical shooting. Get New if your worried about getting a shot out barrel. I have a 20" SP1 rifle with Sully stock. It handles like a carbine. 4weelin
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:33:51 PM EDT
"How much of a negative effect does the primative sights have on it? I like the retro look but I need about 2-3 MOA out of it."

I don't understand, what's primitive about SP1 sights?
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:59:31 PM EDT
My first former AR was a brand new SP1 back in '71 and IIRC, 2 to 3 inches is about the average.

I was using the only available ammo at that time which was 55 gr FMJ Norma brand.

In rare occasions I could get a 1 inch three shot group at 100 yds., offhand standing position.

All guns vary so it will just be luck if you get a good one. Good luck.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:52:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By D348:
"How much of a negative effect does the primative sights have on it? I like the retro look but I need about 2-3 MOA out of it."

I don't understand, what's primitive about SP1 sights?



Well, I guess primitave might not be the best word, I meant less adjustable. Which sights do you guys prefer? So far, I've heard positive things about SP1 sights when it comes to being rugged. I would assume that people mean they are less easy to knock out of alignment. Honestly, I've never shot an SP1, but a good friend used to own one and hated it, because the sights were so bad and because the light wieght barrel made it inaccurate. He sold it and bought a colt A2 HBAR in 1990. I was kind of wondering what your guys take on this gun is.

I was always told that heavy guns were better until I found this site. I'm not that strong and I don't like how front heavy the 20'' HBAR is. I was looking into the M-4 or the Vietnam style SP1 clones. So far, other than gunbroker, the only people selling slab side uppers is Sarco. I've heard good and bad things about them. I was wondering how you guys like their kits/uppers. So far I'm leaning towards the SP1 style because ASA is making a limited run of slab side recievers. As I said, I really like the look of the early vietnam rifles. So far, your opinions have convinced me that the SP1 isn't as bad as my friends say they are, and that there are definite advantages to it. I am concerned with accuracy because I'm thinking about using it for 3gun type matches. How well would this gun work? Most of the people at 3 gun matches seem to use M-4s or customized HBARS 20'' or longer.



Thanks for all of your help.


Couch-Commando
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:54:06 PM EDT
Also, I'm torn between the slab side M16 style and the 16'' barreled XM607 type. What are your opinions of these two rifles?
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:27:23 AM EDT
I have one of the Fulton Armory M16 1/12 barrels, When I zeroed it in at 25m I laid a dime on the group. that was with Fed XM193.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 5:54:07 AM EDT
A light weight rifle is every bit as accurate as a heavy barrel rifle, but it is harder for the shooter to hold it as steady as the heavy weight. An AR 15 is every bit as accurate as a Garand, but my groups with a garand are usually half what I do with an AR, this (for me) is because the AR weighs 6 pounds and the Garand is closer to 11 lbs. I'll give up 1 to 2 moa any day if I don't have to tote the extra 5 lbs all the time.

On sights, change the aperture and post to the A2 style, and your sight picture and performance are identical to the A2. Realistically, you will not be using a 5.56 6 pound rifle with iron sights for shots at more than 200 yds, all that elevation adjustment on the A2 sight is just wasted everywhere except the firing line at Camp Perry.
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