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Posted: 1/16/2006 3:50:34 PM EDT
What purpose does taking a civilian carbine and then adding 900 lbs. of "tactical" accessories serve? I can see it as a patrol rifle, entry weapon but some people spend more on the add ons than they did on the rifle.

All I am adding to mine is a M33 handguard, a foregrip and light source. nothing fancy- no laser, red dots, tractor beams or any of the "uber tactical" gear that is the flavor of the month.

Just a thought. I have worked and trained in CQB environments and don't see the need for all the hardware.

Why do you do it?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:51:53 PM EDT
6 pages...nothing serious in any post.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:52:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 3:53:08 PM EDT by gmtmaster]
I dont... A1 or A2 uppers no optics, flashlights, lasers, grips....Just plain...But... A tractor beam might be cool....Pull in all the chicks... Hmmmmm....
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:52:15 PM EDT
Who said we needed any of it? Personal needs are very subjective. Heck, I really don't even need an AR but I never let that stop me.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:54:33 PM EDT
My thought is that if I wanted it to be heavy I would get a Garand and be done with it.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 3:59:20 PM EDT
Lets see I got a 16" barrel, with a free floated railed hand guard, a Tango Down verticle grip, TD rail covers, a Collapsible stock and an ACOG.

Free Floated railed hand guard -- I wanted one

Collapsible Stock------ I wanted one


ACOG --- I WANTED ONE


nuff said
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:01:41 PM EDT
I understand that we do it because we want to but I am wondering if it serves a serious purpose or is it just a "vanity toy".
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:02:02 PM EDT
what do you see here that's unnecessary??

Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:02:42 PM EDT
I dont see why you need an M33 hand guard a fore grip and a light source .


My great uncle did all kind of Combat stuff and he just used an M1 Carbine and a Flash Light attached to his web gear......
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:07:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 4:08:59 PM EDT by Pointman_M4A1]
The actual question is why did you select the accessories that you did:

1. what purpose is you rifle/carbine serving? (patrol, defense, plinker)

2. what criteria did you use to select your gear?


I am curious about it, for me serving in a line unit I wanted to carry as little weight as possible so that I could move and fight. I would rather have no accessories and carry extra ammo.

Billmanweh- are you state guard?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:11:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
what do you see here that's unnecessary??

www.996.i8.com/breakfast.jpg



a pic of an air softer?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:13:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 4:13:56 PM EDT by Dog1]

Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
what do you see here that's unnecessary??




Good god that is alot of nylon...I wonder if he can even move under his own power?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:16:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pointman_M4A1:
The actual question is why did you select the accessories that you did:

1. what purpose is you rifle/carbine serving? (patrol, defense, plinker)

2. what criteria did you use to select your gear?


I am curious about it, for me serving in a line unit I wanted to carry as little weight as possible so that I could move and fight. I would rather have no accessories and carry extra ammo.

Billmanweh- are you state guard?



I chose the Daniels Deffense Free Float because I wanted to have flexibility of mounting Optics in different positions and mounting fore grips, bipod etc if I so chose the rail system gives me more flexibility. The Free Float gives me greater accuracy and I havent been able to heat it up yet. M4 hand guards I could get uncomfortably warm.

I chose the Fore Grip because it works with my shooting stances

I chose the ACOG because it lets me use the full potential of my firearm. I can see my glowing donut along time after darkness has obscured my iron sights. Plus Magnification for longer shots.

Primarily my Rifle is a fun gun, I also have used it for hunting and it is my home deffense gun.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:17:13 PM EDT
I to suscribe to the school of "less is more" but I chalk it all up to taste. I think that the less things I have on the weapon, the less problems I can have. Some people like to put a bunch of stuff all over their's. If it makes ya happy, or ya want it, go for it.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:28:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dog1:

Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
what do you see here that's unnecessary??

www.996.i8.com/breakfast.jpg



Good god that is alot of nylon...I wonder if he can even move under his own power?



reminds me of "Chevy" from another airsoft thread a while ago h.gif
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:34:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pointman_M4A1:
The actual question is why did you select the accessories that you did:
1. what purpose is you rifle/carbine serving? (patrol, defense, plinker)
2. what criteria did you use to select your gear?
I am curious about it, for me serving in a line unit I wanted to carry as little weight as possible so that I could move and fight. I would rather have no accessories and carry extra ammo.

Now that's a much better way to ask the question.

All my rifles are plinkers but in a post 9/11 world, you never know what will happen so I like to be prepared. All my rifles are built to be tough and reliable which is why I buy the best battle tested gear I can afford. I do extensive research on the gear I buy to make sure, within the best of my ability, that what I buy will serve my needs.

Could I get away with a plain jane AR? Absolutely. Admittedly, the more I shoot, the more refined my needs become and I find I need less.

Weight is definitely a consideration. I can only go shooting either other weekend so when I do, I shoot for 3-5 hours. I notice the weight. After that length of time 4 more oz. seems like a pound. Even when it comes to rail systems, I'm looking into replacing those with something simpler. I do believe that less is more. The difficult part is determining how much is enough.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 4:57:48 PM EDT
I say do what makes you happy...but heres my .02. I got my AR because I WANTED it, not NEEDED it. That being said I will get another one for the same reason, although it will be for a more "tactical" setup-my current is a big bushy 20 inch with fixed carry handle. My "tactical" home defense choice is my shotgun, for many reasons Im sure most would agree on. My second is the Glock (or whatever handgun you prefer) to take with me in the car or when I stay over at someones house, mostly because I can keep it stashed easily when I travel like that. So long story short, Im not qualified to say what is practical or tactical for YOU, my thought is get what is "tacticaly practical" for yourself and yours. But being human, and a gun nut, the fact that I want somthing usually means I need it to feel good. So.....again...do what makes you happy--tac it out if it gives you that warm fuzzy feeling
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:11:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 5:12:40 PM EDT by Dace]

Originally Posted By Pointman_M4A1:


Just a thought. I have worked and trained in CQB environments............



Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:27:38 PM EDT
I got my Stag because it was a neat gun
I added the MI rails because I thought they were cool.
I added the Ergo ladder rail covers because they feel good
I added the VFG because it was tacticool
I added a Pentagon light to be uber tactical
I put the Arms Swan Sleeve on to hold the sight


It's my friggin' toy! I like shooting it for fun. Home defense? That's Glockies job.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:41:36 PM EDT
OK, I'm old and fat, but I was a soldier once, and young.

If the time machine put me in uniform today, I would carry an M-16 that had been modified for match shooting my the PWF at Quantico(sans lead weights) and 77 moly BHAs.


Reason? I feel the options are there. An M-16 is light and small enough for CQB, although an M-4 is probably handier.

OTOH, as a RIFLEMAN, I look at the option of being able to reliably engage at 600 yards.


JMHO
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:44:22 PM EDT
I bought a RRA M4gery and spent twice as much on 15 pounds of stuff that's hanging all over it. Reasons?

-All of the items on mine provide some sort of improvemet over a stock M4gery (in my opinion)
-I don't mind the weight, it's primary use is home defense and I can carry it anywhere in my house, at a sprint, without running out of breath.
-I will also use it for armed security jobs (I spent 2 weeks in N.O. after Katrina) in which case I will be wearing my load bearing vest and the vest helps to distribute the weight evenly across my upper body.
-I like it. I like the way it looks, I like the way it feels and I like the way it shoots.

It's simiair to my Harley. It looked just fine bone stock, and got me wherever I wanted to go. But two years and $6000 later, it looks a lot better and I enjoy riding it more.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:51:47 PM EDT
My two ARs (not counting the extra lower) are configured thusly:

20" HBAR free float:
- bipod
- scope
- RRA scope riser (moves top rail forward about 3-4" for proper eye relief).
- flash hider (mainly for small compensator effect and to keep dust down).

14.5" M4A3
- EoTech
- Troy rear BUIS
- Optional lower rail handguard mount for pressure switch to temporary FSB 200 lumen light.


So, the 20" is my light target (starting to get heavy at about 11 pounds). The 14.5" is my Practical Rifle. We do a night shoot once a year, but I figured a decent light setup would be handy to have. The EoTech is much better for me than the irons, but the irons are there just in case the EoTech fails (or I forget to replace the batteries).

I prefer light and minimal, but still excellent at what they do. EoTechs/Aimpoints, etc. are very fast and easy to get sight picture for our timed shooting. That said, sometimes our match winner is a guy running irons.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 5:57:41 PM EDT
Let’s see, I use my M4gery for home defense so, I have a light source to identify threats in low light conditions. I mounted my light on railed HG’s because that was the sturdiest method. I have a vertical grip which aids in proper positioning of the rifle. Some don’t care for vert grips, but I’m in favor of them. I have an Aimpoint red dot optic to get me on target faster and in the case my optic fails I have a BUIS. So tell me what I have installed on my rifle that has no use?

As back up home defense weapon I have a CAR15 with A1 upper, but still, at a bare minimum that rifle has a light mount bolted to the CAR HG’s and an Aimpoint mounted on the CH via an ARMS #2 mount.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:02:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ironaria:

Originally Posted By Dog1:

Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
what do you see here that's unnecessary??

www.996.i8.com/breakfast.jpg



Good god that is alot of nylon...I wonder if he can even move under his own power?



reminds me of "Chevy" from another airsoft thread a while ago



Anything that is unneccessary. Probably the cargo pockets full of Twinkie's would be a start. Holy crap. AR 600-9. That's all I'm gonna say.

As for the topic at hand, here's what on my M-4 for work:

- 4-rail free float tube
- ACOG TA01NSN
- GG&G BUIS
- All the associated NV crap
- No flashlight and no foregrip
- Viking Tactics Sling

I carry this rifle every day that I'm on mission and obviously in the field. It's nice, light and points almost as well as my 3-Gun rifle. If I had it, bring on the bad guys!!! That being said, I don't know why folks put the crap on the rifle that they do most times. It's probably 'cause they saw it in a magazine, they think it looks cool, or whatever. What seems to be the bigger problem is folks just not shooting their rifles enough. I don't know if it's because I'm a competition shooter when I'm not doing the Army thing (and definitely pre-Army), but when I go to the range, if I shoot less than 600 rounds out of the rifle, I'm not training enough. Very little time is spent on a bench. Rather, I'm working on specific drills: Transitions, into and out of various positions, Working on individual positions, weak hand shooting, etc. I would go to the range 2-3 days per week and work these out just to try and keep up with the competition.

So, put what you want on your rifle. But, if it's a choice between $300 in add-on doo-dads and 3000+ rounds of ammo that you can take to the range and practice with...I say practice.

SPC Richard A. White, Senior Medic
249th MP Detachment (EACF)
Camp Humphreys, ROK

Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:05:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 6:08:15 PM EDT by Pointman_M4A1]
More people here seem to think the same way I do, I am talking about the ones who make their AR look like a Star Wars blaster rifle, and weigh 1000 lbs.

Seeing as most owners will never be in a situation to require the accessories that they have.
NV scopes, laser guided missile launchers, tractor beams, enough light to guide in a 747, plus the Beta mags, it's just insane.

The guys in my unit (MP) seriously wonder about some of the mods on these civilian rifles.
Anything that helps you identify your target, and bring the weapon to bear is good but holy sh*t, Batman.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:09:16 PM EDT
rails, vert grip, red dot, light. I have all the option but a laser. mostly used for plinking , but also home defense. I take off most the extras while out plinking.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:11:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 6:13:01 PM EDT by WIZZO_ARAKM14]
Different Strokes for Different Folks.

My heaviest is my plain 20" A4 HBAR that has a detachable carry handle on it.

My 16" carbines are both around 7 3/4lbs.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:16:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pointman_M4A1:
More people here seem to think the same way I do, I am talking about the ones who make their AR look like a Star Wars blaster rifle, and weigh 1000 lbs.

Seeing as most owners will never be in a situation to require the accessories that they have.
NV scopes, laser guided missile launchers, tractor beams, enough light to guide in a 747, plus the Beta mags, it's just insane.

The guys in my unit (MP) seriously wonder about some of the mods on these civilian rifles.
Anything that helps you identify your target, and bring the weapon to bear is good but holy sh*t, Batman.




What Mods are you talking about ? I dont see that much crap mounted on most of the rifles around just change your m33 for a free float and put an optic on it.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:17:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 6:20:22 PM EDT by QUIB]
We can’t forget that as weapons and accessories evolve, comparing them to previous generations weapons they will look “Star Wars”! I’m sure our Grandfathers would have loved to have our present day weapons systems back during WWII! I’m sure an M1 Carbine with an Aimpoint would have been preferred over the same weapon with iron sights!

Look at some of the very first weapons lights. I remember reading about SWAT teams mounting Maglights to their rifles with hose clamps!
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:19:10 PM EDT
i just took all the junk off and went back to stock....

i am just going to mount my light on the front sight and thats it...

it was heavy my poi was all over the place..rails were not freefloated...

and couldnt get used to a cowitnessed view...

so back to basics for me...............
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:19:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 8:48:14 PM EDT by Snaps]
what ever you want.... You'll want all the cool stuff when you're fighting off a horde of advancing zombies


straight up A1setup with nothing on it
M4setup with ACOG KAC FF and vert grip.. get the surefigre light grip eventually
Gota get an a2 setup with a colt copy scope and a flare launcher tosee the zombies

and eventually my SIG 552with some cool stuff on it too

honestly i have no idea how much my guns weigh... .THey're not enough to make it difficultto carry, of course I've been a SAWgunner before.... I'd rather have a little extra weight and have an advantage
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:22:43 PM EDT
I actually started a thread in the Training forum here because I'm trying to take a class (the date keeps getting pushed back..argh). I often read reviews about classes and inevitably, people who take a class end up stripping a lot of the extraneous stuff off of their rifles. Why? Because they find it adds weight and/or just gets in the way. To those of off that only shoot for fun and not a living, we don't get as much time to put out gear through hard use. We don't have to hump our rifles around for 12+ hours at a time. We don't notice how unnecessary some of stuff we have on our rifles really easy.

I'll tell you this though. Every time I do go shooting, I think about how the range trip went and how my gear worked for me. Heck, I've gotten to the point now that I'm thinking rail panels are fluff which means the rail underneath them are too! That may sound crazy to you but I've always thought that the more options I had , the better off I was. I'm slowly but surely starting to think exactly the opposite.

Rail systems are really what started the whole "strap the crap" on your rifle revolution. Once you get a rail system for the vertical grip then you can easily just attach a light or a laser or a bipod. It makes accessorizing far too easy really.

All my rifles have rail systems but I'm starting to realize that most of that "rail estate" is wasted. My 20" AR is going to be the first one that gets looked at. My KAC FF RAS is likely going to get replaced with a simpler PRI FF tube with 2 short rails. One for a sling mount and the other for a bipod w/QD mount. I know that free floating the bbl isn't buying me that much based upon the level of accuracy I am capable of with my rifle but I also now that it's not hurting me either.

Just watch, in another couple of years, I'm be shooting bone stock ARs with iron sights and fixed stocks.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:41:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Snaps:
what ever you want.... You'll want all the cool stuff when you're fighting off a horde of advancing zombies



I went to the range the other day and this guy I'll call him "Tactical Ted" ex CIA, ninja ranger type was there with this thing that barely resembled an M4, had every accessory known to man on it, had to weigh almost 20 lbs. Used it all to "zap" Iraqi insurgents in Baghdad at 1000 ydsh.gif

All this made me wonder why people do this. As I said I have been there and done that, but wanted lighter and faster versus hi tech. Someone else made the point of having less crap to go wrong.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:50:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Matt_B:
I actually started a thread in the Training forum here because I'm trying to take a class (the date keeps getting pushed back..argh). I often read reviews about classes and inevitably, people who take a class end up stripping a lot of the extraneous stuff off of their rifles. Why? Because they find it adds weight and/or just gets in the way. To those of off that only shoot for fun and not a living, we don't get as much time to put out gear through hard use. We don't have to hump our rifles around for 12+ hours at a time. We don't notice how unnecessary some of stuff we have on our rifles really easy.

I'll tell you this though. Every time I do go shooting, I think about how the range trip went and how my gear worked for me. Heck, I've gotten to the point now that I'm thinking rail panels are fluff which means the rail underneath them are too! That may sound crazy to you but I've always thought that the more options I had , the better off I was. I'm slowly but surely starting to think exactly the opposite.

Rail systems are really what started the whole "strap the crap" on your rifle revolution. Once you get a rail system for the vertical grip then you can easily just attach a light or a laser or a bipod. It makes accessorizing far too easy really.

All my rifles have rail systems but I'm starting to realize that most of that "rail estate" is wasted. My 20" AR is going to be the first one that gets looked at. My KAC FF RAS is likely going to get replaced with a simpler PRI FF tube with 2 short rails. One for a sling mount and the other for a bipod w/QD mount. I know that free floating the bbl isn't buying me that much based upon the level of accuracy I am capable of with my rifle but I also now that it's not hurting me either.

Just watch, in another couple of years, I'm be shooting bone stock ARs with iron sights and fixed stocks.



I hear ya, and think the same way. I evaluate my equipment too. I built my CAR15 because I wanted a back to basics, light weight carbine. Then I got to thinking, and thought hey, this would make a great home defense weapon as well. But, I’d be screwed in low light situations with out illumination, so I added a Weaver rail to the HG’s to mount my Surefire G2. Then I got to thinking about irons vs. red dots and target acquisition, and added the Aimpoint on the carry handle. The technology is there, why not make the best from what we can benefit from?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:59:18 PM EDT
To each his own. Add what you need. But for me, lighter is better. My carbine weighs in at just under 6lbs.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 6:59:31 PM EDT
I don't know how many times it has to be said...

THE MISSION DRIVES THE GEAR! Not the other way around.

Do you need anything more than iron sights on your rifle? Hell if I know, I don't know WTF it'll be used for.

I do, however, know that my rifle is set up like I need it for whatever may arise. It's in a configuration that is maneuverable and lightweight enough for me, provides me with plenty of light and magnification for target ID during day or night, yet it doesn't slow me down against threats up close.

Yes, I have BUIS, a flashlight, and a Short Dot. Hell I even have a Redi-mag. Does it make the rifle weigh more? Yes.... But it also makes it much more capable for the role in which it is most commonly used.

I'm no HSLD operator, but I've got the knowledge to know what my rifle does and does not need. The last thing I need or want is someone telling me I have too much stuff on my rifle. It's MINE for Pete's sake, and I'm the one that uses it.

The only other thing I have to say is that if you ARE going to add crap on your gun, make sure its been tested, and has proven itself to be reliable, and of quality manufacture.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 7:04:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Capn_Crunch:
The only other thing I have to say is that if you ARE going to add crap on your gun, make sure its been tested, and has proven itself to be reliable, and of quality manufacture.



Couldn’t be said better, especially as of lately with the influx of “clone” equipment threads!
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 7:04:57 PM EDT
personally I think the ideal defensive carbine is a 16'' M4 or light wieght with one of those surefire lights that is an integral part of a top handguard, a high quality optic (aimpoint or eotech), and a good BUIS. However, I would rather have a basic light wieght rifle with irons than a 20 lbs M4 with every gadget known to man on it... In the end, what ever works for you...
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 7:19:36 PM EDT
HIS

P.S. sorry for the rainbow clown thing, just trying to get noticed for some pics to get put up
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 7:23:31 PM EDT
I bought a Bushy LE M4 16in, fixed A2 Carry handle carbine.

I like my issue M4 but think that the extra 1.5 in barrel length gets me better accuracy.
Of course I will never get to use my personal rifle in combat, but it's close to the issue weapon.
After 16 years of toting different configurations of the M16, I think that the M4 is great and a really good CQB weapon when you keep the weight down.

Being able to shoot in the first place is better than any gizmo on the market.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 7:30:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tom1000rr:
THIS JUST BEGS FOR THE PICTURE OF THE MOST UN-PRACTICAL AR OUT THERE....ANY TAKERS ?


I think I got it but tinypic seems to be down at the moment
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 7:37:14 PM EDT
All the toys on it scare the shit out of the sheeple.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 7:39:19 PM EDT
scaring the sheeple is fun sometimes
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 7:45:01 PM EDT
That fat kid does have some gear you have to admit. An Army of One!!! WTF.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 7:48:31 PM EDT
Ultra tactical Molle capable twinkie carrier, is a nice touchhim
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:20:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 8:32:35 PM EDT by Azalin]
Remember that the mission should drive the gear used!

I use my rifles for target practice and self defense. My primary rifle has a Surefire M96, LaRue rail, Aimpoint M3, Troy BUIS, VLTOR stock, and a tango down vertical forgrip. Every item I have added to my previously stock rifle is high quality, and offers a distinct advantage over a stock rifle for my uses. I have the experience to know what I need on my rifle. If a plan A2, iron sights only rifle fulfills you requirements then carry on. To many people due to there personal lack of knowledge and experience see the accessories I have added as unnecessary toys.

To date I have taken 4 carbine classes and one pistol class or 100 hours worth of training. Being 24 and having limited funds this is all the training I have been able to afford. Below is an explanation of why I added the above listed items to my rifle.

My first training class was taken with a stock 16" Bushmaster carbine with a collapsible stock and a heavy barrel. After participating in low light/moon light shooting scenarios I quickly recognized how much easier people with weapon mounted lights could hit there targets. I purchased a rail and added the surefire because I wanted a light suitable for identifying targets both inside and out.

Next I purchased an Advanced Armament vertical grip which I later upgraded to a Tango Down VG. Actuating a pressure switch that was attached to a VG was much easier than when the pressure switch was mounted to a handguard. During CQB exercises I found that a VG allowed me to index and engage targets faster.

A free floated rail was added for several reasons. I wanted a rail mounting system that would prevent POI change when items were added to the front of the weapon or removed. Free float rails allow the weapon to cool easier. I have honestly never seen an accuracy benefit from free floating my primary AR15 but it is a theoretical benefit. All in all I consider a rail to offer the lowest cost to benefit ratio.

Aimpoints and EoTechs allow me to get COM hits on targets significantly faster and more constantly than iron sights. At 50 yards or less the no (virtually) parallax red dot optic can not be beat when speed is the primary objective. I also found out that the Aimpoint is an excellent low light/moon light aiming device. If I decide or am forced to not use my weapon mounted light, if I can see the silhouette of my target I can place the red dot on target and get COM hits fairly fast and constantly. The red dot allows me to aim and shoot at targets in situations were the iron sights would be totally unusable.

My Troy BUIS is in place should the Aimpoint battery die or the optic otherwise fail. I enjoy using my Aimpoint but to be honest I practice with my iron sights more. In my experience the better I get with my irons the faster I get with my Aimpoint.

The VLTOR stock was purchased to hold spare Surefire and Aimpoint batteries. I also found that I enjoy the cheek weld over that of a standard collapsible stock.

While I believe in being prepared for any potential self defense survival scenario I recognized that others do not. My gear was selected to help me survive any scenario where my rifle might save my live and I feel very confident in my selected hardware. I train with my rifle every week and have no problem holding it in a firing position for nine minutes.

I have carried my current rifle during two of my carbine classes and found that the rifle used in conjunction with my chest rig and hydration system was not too heavy for me to work with. Training is the key to success with any rifle and kit combo you decide to use. If you feel you need a flash light, vertical grip, or an optic on your rifle but find the rifle to heavy for your to use during a 10+ hour training class consider working out.

I get tired of the arguments that go “my uncle, grandfather, brother used a spear with a mirror to reflect moonlight statements” to justify or defends there choice to not “modernize” there weapon. I am willing to bet that most vets if but back in “the shit” would appreciate the advantage that optics, lights and vertical forgrips offer.

In closing I do recognize that there are many accessories that offer no real advantage or are of such poor quality that they are a potential liability. Some people lack the experience or knowledge to properly take advantage of the accessory items that they purchase. All of these problems will become apparent during training and are capable of being remedied. Training solves many problems.

Oh and if you do not like adding accessories to your AR then you are a dinosaur
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:25:08 PM EDT
tinypic is back up so


Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:34:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/16/2006 8:35:49 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:
Different Strokes for Different Folks.



Yup - you do your thing and I'll do mine.


Putting an ELCAN on my "multi-purpose" rifle makes it much more versatile and useful for a variety of different applications.

Putting an EOThingy on my SBR made it much more accurate for rapid fire and target acquisition. I don't really have any use for that, other than the range - but if I ever needed it for some unanticipated event, the EOTHingy certainly makes it a much more effective rifle.

If it's a question about "NEED" - the I probably didn't "need" the SBR in the first place, so that's sort of a pointless argument to me.



Btw - I voted for both of the first choices. Some of my AR's have optics, railed handguards/free float and vert grips - but other of my AR's are kept super-simple and straightforward. So I do both.
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:34:43 PM EDT
Lock'n'load....that thing must weigh a ton. But where is the light saber on that thing?
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:46:31 PM EDT
here the ultimate zombie defense weapon..


I knew it was a good idea saving these pics when I saw them
Link Posted: 1/16/2006 8:48:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pointman_M4A1:
What purpose does taking a civilian carbine and then adding 900 lbs. of "tactical" accessories serve? I can see it as a patrol rifle, entry weapon but some people spend more on the add ons than they did on the rifle.

All I am adding to mine is a M33 handguard, a foregrip and light source. nothing fancy- no laser, red dots, tractor beams or any of the "uber tactical" gear that is the flavor of the month.

Just a thought. I have worked and trained in CQB environments and don't see the need for all the hardware.

Why do you do it?



Why have the M33, why not mount the foregrip through the vent holes on the handguard and the light on a tower? Personaly I think a foregrip is fluff, but to each his own.

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