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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 5/9/2003 1:38:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2003 1:43:25 PM EDT by karlknapp]
I anticipate that many of you will strongly disagree with my opinion on the renewal of the 'assault weapons ban'. I offer this opinion as food for thought.

I base my opinion on the following assumptions:

  1. The general population thinks that just because a gun looks scary, it must be worse than other guns and 'evil': hence, the AR-15 is both worse than other guns and evil.

  2. The general population is uneducated about gun safety and the sport of shooting in general. The images they receive relative to shooting are mostly limited to police dramas, war movies, and images of soldiers with 'assault weapons'.

  3. Since the general population sees soldiers with the AR-15, they assume that they are only meant for military use (reinforcing the 'worse' perception).

  4. The general population is uneducated about what types of guns are most commonly used in crime and that the AR-15 is not the usual criminal weapon of choice by a long shot. The liberal media overplays the story when an 'assault weapon' is used in a crime.

  5. Lastly, and most important, the general population is under the assumption that the 1994 'assault weapons ban' actually banned 'assault weapons', not just limited some features.


If the deliberations about the AWB are long and drawn out, the general population's perception of the 'assault weapons ban' may be corrected. If these assumptions are true, and the general population's perception is corrected about the 'assault weapons ban', they may call for even more stringent regulation or for a true ban.

The bottom line is that guns rights advocates probably don't want a long, drawn out public debate over the AWB. If it appears that this will become a long, drawn out public process, a renewal of the current ban may be in the best interest of gun rights advocates.

If any of the assumptions are incorrect, or can be changed through public education, this would certainly change my conclusion. Now go ahead, flame away!
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 1:48:12 PM EDT
I think your assumptions are accurate...and irrelevant. Rights are not based on "public perception". Or on majority rule. I think most of us would agree that the novel "The Turner Diary" is disturbing and has done some harm. Maybe even caused some deaths. Should it be banned. If you asked for a "public opinion" on whether it should be banned, you would probably get an affirmative. So should it be banned? NO! The First Amendment is clear. Why is the Second Amendment treated differently?
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 1:54:50 PM EDT
Very good point. Rights are certainly more universal and binding than perception. It appears though, the that government has taken to limiting some rights in the public interest (patriot act, AWB). If the government assumes the power to limit rights, in a democracy, public perception and majority rule. A good point about rights though. I guess it is more about the government's power to limit certain rights?
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 2:21:23 PM EDT
"The bottom line is that guns rights advocates probably don't want a long, drawn out public debate over the AWB" It doesn't matter if they want to have a public debate or not now...it looks like Bush has gone to the side of the liberals and is offering support for a new bill to permanantly ban so called assault weapons. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,86415,00.html What really makes my head want to explode is Bush's supposed support for this even if they find facts to show the original ban has not been effective. Yeah, that's right...even if the evidence is against a new ban. Maybe this is Bush's new economic plan - make gun sales rise like they did before the last ban...either way it is pure political B.S. Maybe I should have voted for Gore, at least I would expect as much from him and not get a knife in the back. The only reason I can think of for this is that Bush wants to get some democrat votes in 2004, which would help him because so many gun owners are divided on this issue, he may not loose enough votes from gun owners to outweigh the votes he may gain from liberals. Sorry about being so long winded..just very bitter right now..
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 2:28:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2003 2:32:44 PM EDT by Master_Blaster]
Bowing to ignorance only encourages &/or emboldens the ignorant. The argument for 'reasonable' limitations certainly carries weight, but the 2nd Amend. seems to get in the way in this regard. Simply put, the 2nd wasn't written explicitly for hunting, 'sporting purposes' use, or even home defense, though it certainly encompasses these. In fact - & this is the ugly truth that [i]very[/i] few seem willing to admit - it was designed to explicitly entrust the core of military power into the hands of the populace in order to prevent gov't from having 'absolute' power over its citizenry. If I'm being restricted while the gov't remains untethered, then the very intent of the Amend becomes null, which, of course, is the goal of gun-control. I'd argue that certain limitations, even if done in the interests of public safety, are not necessarily worth the price. The so-called 'Patriot Act' may have been intended to curb future 9-11's, but is it worth the price? How many threats do I have to lose my rights to before someone decides that maybe I've lost too many? How far can/will the restrictions go? Or, is my 'safety' paramount over all else - including freedom. Guilded or not, a cage is a cage.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 2:41:18 PM EDT
Shit, gonehuntingagain, I just read that fox news story link that you posted. I didn't realize that a new, and more toothy AWB bill was moving about in Washington. I'm surprised that Bush is commenting at all on these issues. It seems unlikely that they will clear congress anyway. He must be assuming that no matter what he says on gun control, he will be more supportive of gun rights than any democrat, so gun rights advocates really won't have a choice but to vote for him. Risky position.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 3:27:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/9/2003 3:28:15 PM EDT by Texasbagman2]
If the government assumes the power to limit rights, in a democracy, public perception and majority rule.
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And that is the whole point. Our government has [b]ASSUMED[/b] the power to limit rights, as that power was never assigned to it in the Constitution. On the AWB, our hope lies with the House of Reps. I actually hold out hope that a renewal will not get out of the house.
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 7:14:19 PM EDT
I think it will die in the House. I also think that the sheeple don't know and don't care about the AWB. They don't understand what it does or what it affects. The key is that they don't care. Unfortunate, but that's the way it is. JMO
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 7:30:17 PM EDT
Doesn't matter what Bush says if the bill never gets to his desk and he knows it. The actual state of affairs, as I understand it from the news, is that the gun lobby has the upper hand in the House right now. It appears that the bill supporting "exemption" from lawsuits for the gun industry is likely to pass. Therefore, it is also possible that the AWB will not be renewed. Still to early to tell on this one. I expect we will see all kinds of "stories" from both sides before this matter is over. Sure WISH I knew what the out come would be! [jump]
Link Posted: 5/9/2003 8:09:49 PM EDT
The politicians will go by whatever they think the public wants at the time. The public may even think that the AR15 is a black scary rifle, but most of them really don't care one way or the other. The actual number of true hardcore anti's is small. Why do you think the NRA has such pull in Washington? Most people are more worried about the economy then they are about assault rifles. I also think the bill will die in the House, and I think Bush believes it as well. I think he is playing the fence at the moment. Saying one thing on camera, and maybe even working to make sure the bill dies behind the scenes. Typical political bull, but that is how the game is played most times.
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 9:12:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By VA-gunnut: The politicians will go by whatever they think the public wants at the time. The public may even think that the AR15 is a black scary rifle, but most of them really don't care one way or the other. The actual number of true hardcore anti's is small. Why do you think the NRA has such pull in Washington? Most people are more worried about the economy then they are about assault rifles. I also think the bill will die in the House, and I think Bush believes it as well. I think he is playing the fence at the moment. Saying one thing on camera, and maybe even working to make sure the bill dies behind the scenes. Typical political bull, but that is how the game is played most times.
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Exactly right! There may be a majority who, not understanding the issue are anti-assault rifle but they [b]will not[/b] bbase a vote on this issue. Of those that will base a vote on this issue, we are in the majority. A support or the AWB= a net loss of votes.
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 9:26:23 AM EDT
Most people dont care one way or the other once you explain it to them. Once you tell them the assualt weapon bill nothing to do with machine guns they usually dont care.
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 9:54:37 AM EDT
Here's the thing. The average everyday person, gun owners included really don't care about the AWB. Its not about hunting, the constitution or anything else. Most people simply don't think is such noble terms. They think in practicality, as in, how does this affect my daily life? In 1994 I had not taken up the sport of shooting mil style rifles. The Colt Carbines we had at the department were the only ones I needed for the job, and my preban mini 14 had sat idle in a closet for probably 5 years. The only gun I shot regularly was my trap gun and my duty pistol. I really did not care in 1994 as nothing that I was particularly interested in was affected by the ban. Besides, my sks had a 10 round mag which didn't seen an impediment at all on the rare occaisions when I took it out to shoot off the bench. Fast forward 10 years. I am now semi retired from policing working part time for a rural Sheriff's office which requires all full and part time deputies to supply their own equipment. I have also taken up the sport / hobby of mil style rifle shooting. I own two bushmasters and an AK and shoot all regularly. Now this ban thing starts to bother me. I really don't care about the Bayo lug, or flash hider ( a break actually serves a purpose ) I might like a folding stock but can live without it. But, now they are talking about furthering the ban. What if I can't get spare or replacement parts or mags in the future? Now this might start to affect me and my interests? You see, its all a matter of interest and persepective. Most Americans are very happy to defend themselves with a 12 ga and a six or 10 shot handgun. They have no real interest in military style rifles so it won't bother them one way or the other. Besides the things are very expensive and look menacing. Tell ya what they say, you don't mess with my .38 and I don't care what you do. In greater extreme we have the lefties who think all guns are bad and evil and through their fear seek to remove the object of fear from their possible contact. This is how most of the country thinks and this is how descisions are made. We currently live in an interesting time. A crux if you will. We have had 10 years of a useless law. We can either renew it as is. Make it even more restrictive, or simply let it go the way of the Dodo bird. The side that makes the most noise will likely get their way. This is because in practical matters the majority does not care one way or the other.
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 7:35:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IYAOYAS467: I think it will die in the House. I also think that the sheeple don't know and don't care about the AWB. They don't understand what it does or what it affects. The key is that they don't care. Unfortunate, but that's the way it is. JMO
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Hell ,the majority of gun owners and LEO don't even know about the AWB
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 7:53:28 PM EDT
The average person is, of course, of average intelligence, and that isn't stupid. I think the average person on the street isn't too concerned about the issue and really doesn't know that much about it, and much of what he "knows" is propaganda and distorted half-truths. I think that if you were to take the time to take that average person and give him a genuinely fair and utterly honest education about the entire assault weapons issue, and let him think on it for a while, then he'd probably conclude that our side, the pro-gun, pro-black rifle crowd, has the right interpretation. He'd see that guns don't cause crime, criminals do. He'd see that the ban is pretty much pointless and useless. He'd see the fallacy in disarming the citizens, who'll obey the law, and leaving the criminals, who won't, to increase their predatory actions with the aid of guns they won't turn in anyway. Maybe I'm an optimist about this, but I think most people would see this bullshit for what it is, if given the chance to investigate the issue fully. CJ
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 8:19:04 PM EDT
I'm taking the positive approach to this. I believe it when John Ashcroft stood up against the Liberals and told them and the Supreme Court Judges (some who didn't have to be told) that the rights of citizens to own firearms will not be infringed upon because it is protected under the 2nd Ammendment. And by God the Supreme Court agreed with him! God bless President George W. Bush, our fighting men and women, and The United States of America.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 6:55:17 AM EDT
Have said it before, will say it again. There will not be a new more stringent AWB and there will also be no renewal of the current AWB. Furthermore, an assault weapon is a select fire weapon so unless you have a Class 3, registered C&R Tommy, or other type weapon, you don't have an assault weapon. The first thing is that we must insert the correct verbage concerning weapons before we can expect anti-gunners or people who just have no gun knowledge to. The only people who even care about this issue are the pro-gun crowd and the anti-gun crowd. When it comes to the general public at large whom don't act on their patriotic duty to be armed, they really just don't care. If it isn't about their kid's soccer team or the school board or getting the permits for their block party, they just don't care. I'm not trying to preach but I happen to be in marketing and I will tell you it is all in how you tell someone something that leads to their end conclusion. I work in a very, very liberal industry which I will leave out but when I inform people in my business who are generally anti-gun or frightened by so-called assault weapons, when spoken in a non-emotional, frank and calm manner, they begin to understand. Sometimes, most times their views change. On many occasions they ask to see these weapons in which I provide them a safe and legal route to do so which always leads to a trip to the range. We also never want to take the position that assault weapons are no different then any other rifle, because then Feinstein will have the catalyst to come after all our guns. No AW ban will pass the House, new or current, it has no chance. We have to stop having a gloomy outlook on this, we are not doomed, you will see. We must vote for Bush guys. Look, there have been 3 US Presidents that have literally saved the free world Kennedy, Reagan and our current Pres, Bush who if you ask me is the man. He has to say he supports the ban, he has to. If he says he supports an all out repeal of the current ban publically, he is screwed and we are screwed, this will ignite the liberal Commie fuse and we will REALLY be screwed. You guys want Bush coming off as a crazed Texas redneck? You want to give Hillary a chance to run for president? Think a totally conservative government can't go wacky liberal communist overnight? Come and visit us here in Illinois. Let's smarten up here guys, there is no way in the world at this point they are going to try to take our guns or ban them. It would cost too much and there are zillions of guns and magazines and everything else in America. What they will do and what they are doing which is much, much more dangerous is brainwashing the younger generations to believe guns are demonic in the liberal socialist media and public school systems and through the Hollywood outlet. Fire must be fought with fire and we can not come off emotional, it is hard I know I get very pissed, we must act professional and act on par with the liberal politicians. As they feed youth with anti-gun rhetoric to eventually through several generations, make guns appear evil which will lead to all out prohibition. This is their ultimate goal. No new ban will pass the House fellas, the old ban will go bye bye. Behind the scenes the boss has made it clear to the republican Congressmen to make damn sure no bill reaches his desk for a signature. Do you guys really for one minute believe Bush is going to renew a gun ban in the first place but yet a gun ban imposed by the bone-head that beat out his Dad in 92? Come on. Relax, it's gonna be ok. We need to keep the heat on big time and never relent politically. If we become complacent, yes they will take our rights away but that holds true for any of our civil liberties. Keep the heat on, educate people and relax, there will be no new ban.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 6:58:28 AM EDT
Have said it before, will say it again. There will not be a new more stringent AWB and there will also be no renewal of the current AWB. Furthermore, an assault weapon is a select fire weapon so unless you have a Class 3, registered C&R Tommy, or other type weapon, you don't have an assault weapon. The first thing is that we must insert the correct verbage concerning weapons before we can expect anti-gunners or people who just have no gun knowledge to. The only people who even care about this issue are the pro-gun crowd and the anti-gun crowd. When it comes to the general public at large whom don't act on their patriotic duty to be armed, they really just don't care. If it isn't about their kid's soccer team or the school board or getting the permits for their block party, they just don't care. I'm not trying to preach but I happen to be in marketing and I will tell you it is all in how you tell someone something that leads to their end conclusion. I work in a very, very liberal industry which I will leave out but when I inform people in my business who are generally anti-gun or frightened by so-called assault weapons, when spoken in a non-emotional, frank and calm manner, they begin to understand. Sometimes, most times their views change. On many occasions they ask to see these weapons in which I provide them a safe and legal route to do so which always leads to a trip to the range. We also never want to take the position that assault weapons are no different then any other rifle, because then Feinstein will have the catalyst to come after all our guns. No AW ban will pass the House, new or current, it has no chance. We have to stop having a gloomy outlook on this, we are not doomed, you will see. We must vote for Bush guys. Look, there have been 3 US Presidents that have literally saved the free world Kennedy, Reagan and our current Pres, Bush who if you ask me is the man. He has to say he supports the ban, he has to. If he says he supports an all out repeal of the current ban publically, he is screwed and we are screwed, this will ignite the liberal Commie fuse and we will REALLY be screwed. You guys want Bush coming off as a crazed Texas redneck? You want to give Hillary a chance to run for president? Think a totally conservative government can't go wacky liberal communist overnight? Come and visit us here in Illinois. Let's smarten up here guys, there is no way in the world at this point they are going to try to take our guns or ban them. It would cost too much and there are zillions of guns and magazines and everything else in America. What they will do and what they are doing which is much, much more dangerous is brainwashing the younger generations to believe guns are demonic in the liberal socialist media and public school systems and through the Hollywood outlet. Fire must be fought with fire and we can not come off emotional, it is hard I know I get very pissed, we must act professional and act on par with the liberal politicians. As they feed youth with anti-gun rhetoric to eventually through several generations, make guns appear evil which will lead to all out prohibition. This is their ultimate goal. No new ban will pass the House fellas, the old ban will go bye bye. Behind the scenes the boss has made it clear to the republican Congressmen to make damn sure no bill reaches his desk for a signature. Do you guys really for one minute believe Bush is going to renew a gun ban in the first place but yet a gun ban imposed by the bone-head that beat out his Dad in 92? Come on. Relax, it's gonna be ok. We need to keep the heat on big time and never relent politically. If we become complacent, yes they will take our rights away but that holds true for any of our civil liberties. Keep the heat on, educate people and relax, there will be no new ban.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 8:03:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ep_shooter: Doesn't matter what Bush says if the bill never gets to his desk and he knows it. The actual state of affairs, as I understand it from the news, is that the gun lobby has the upper hand in the House right now. It appears that the bill supporting "exemption" from lawsuits for the gun industry is likely to pass. Therefore, it is also possible that the AWB will not be renewed. Still to early to tell on this one. I expect we will see all kinds of "stories" from both sides before this matter is over. Sure WISH I knew what the out come would be! [jump]
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I'm inclined to agree with this logic. I got the same feel when I read the Fox article.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 10:28:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By patriot73: Have said it before, will say it again. There will not be a new more stringent AWB and there will also be no renewal of the current AWB.
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Might I ask how you know this? We all have our own theories, but it sure seems odd that some of you can KNOW what is going to happen in the future. If you do know something the rest of us don't, then by all means share your source with rest of us.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 2:57:55 PM EDT
That is a fairly confident prediction based on a real-world analysis of the situation and political environment that any additional such ban has to survive...and when you throw a snowball into the hot part of hell, it doesn't take a lot of skull sweat to figure out that it won't last long. Ban legislation is that snowball, and it is going to land in a heavily Republican dominated, pro-gun House of Representatives, ALL of which know that it was the previous ban that caused a major House-cleaning in the following election, and those that were swept out had voted for the ban. As most Representatives (and Senators) would like to stay in office after the next election, they are understandably reluctant to vote for a bill that is very unpopular with their constituents, and will simply let it fall into the trash can where it belongs. The same thing will happen in the Senate. This is not 1994. We don't have a rabidly anti-gun President and we don't have a Congress that is controlled by Democrats in both houses. And even the 1994 edition of the House of Representatives passed its side of the AW ban by a SINGLE vote margin. Incidentally, it was Tom Ridge who cast the final and tiebreaking vote. The ban will die. CJ
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 6:41:46 AM EDT
I hope the ban fades into distant memory myself but I wouldn't be suprised if they wrote a 5 year clause into the ban instead of 10 years. I also feel that one day we will be forced to modify our guns to comply with laws similar to California's with fixed magazines, etc. We have to face the fact that we are becoming a minority and along with cigarettes and fast food, guns are taboo and the public perception of the lawful gun owner as being a responsible citizen is skewed by the media and we are made to look like a radical who's time has passed. Just look at the shooting rampage that happened in Ohio last week. All that was said in the articles that I have read was that hundred of rounds were fired but they never reported with what type of weapon so I guess that everbody is left up to their own assumptions, right? Guess which weapons come to mind first and then remind yourself why the ban exsist in the first place and if it comes down to it, why we can easily be railroaded into giving up our guns because the current legislation in the minds of most people doesn't do enough to so call protect everybody. Think about it.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 6:51:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By IYAOYAS467:
Originally Posted By patriot73: Have said it before, will say it again. There will not be a new more stringent AWB and there will also be no renewal of the current AWB.
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Might I ask how you know this? We all have our own theories, but it sure seems odd that some of you can KNOW what is going to happen in the future. Like the last guy said, it takes no genuis to figure this out. If you have spent any amount of time working for a corporation and had the priveledge of being inside the inner circles of those who turn the gears, you can read between the lines here and see that this is nothing more than corporate/political smoke and mirrors on Bush's AND the NRA's behalf. Yep the NRA, these guys aren't stupid fellas. They are making it look like they are furious at Bush for saying he'd re-sign the current bill so Bush can seem like a moderate and win the liberal votes based on what an excellent job he's done with the war and de-bunking liberal politicians. The NRA and BUSH are in bed together on this one, you can take that to the bank. They are setting this up for the big win for our side. Pay attention to Feinstein right now, she's a tired old woman that's been beaten down for 9 years since she narrowly got her original bill passed in 94, she doesn't have the fight, the Pres, the backing, the public support or the juice to defeat the NRA this time and I don't think the Dems want to lose the few seats they have in Congress right now so you won't see many Democrats voting for any ban either. Even that butthead Daschle has said he would not sign any AW bill. All other White House pollsters and spokesmen also agree th AW ban will take a dump. Again like it was said, this isn't 1994, Clinton is gone and the Democrats in general have finally proven to the country what Socialist idealistic idiots they are. Even media outlets are starting to take the "what is the purpose of this law?" opinion, not the Commie media of course, but more and more you're seeing it. There is no way, no way in the world any AW bill new or old will pass this Congress. No way. Say bye-bye AW Ban, it's over.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 7:45:08 AM EDT
Lets just write letters and sit tight. Our chance are much better now than if say GORE was president.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 1:45:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jimtash9: I hope the ban fades into distant memory myself but I wouldn't be suprised if they wrote a 5 year clause into the ban instead of 10 years. I also feel that one day we will be forced to modify our guns to comply with laws similar to California's with fixed magazines, etc. We have to face the fact that we are becoming a minority and along with cigarettes and fast food, guns are taboo and the public perception of the lawful gun owner as being a responsible citizen is skewed by the media and we are made to look like a radical who's time has passed. Just look at the shooting rampage that happened in Ohio last week. All that was said in the articles that I have read was that hundred of rounds were fired but they never reported with what type of weapon so I guess that everbody is left up to their own assumptions, right? Guess which weapons come to mind first and then remind yourself why the ban exsist in the first place and if it comes down to it, why we can easily be railroaded into giving up our guns because the current legislation in the minds of most people doesn't do enough to so call protect everybody. Think about it.
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Forced to alter our rifles? Forced to give them up? By who? I'm thinking there are lots of folks on this website who have not spent their entire lives deep within the gun culture as some of us have. My God, this crap has been going on forever and the same paranoid statements from gun-owners have been going on forever. What rights has anyone lost? What a bayonet lug? Anybody here have a hard time finding a 30 round magazine? Cut me a break, the ban will sunset and die anyway. Study just the minute level of American history and you will discover trends of political backlash that began "when the shot hear around the world" was fired and have kept going like a cycle and we are back in a more conservative, more American backlash right now, so bye-bye AW ban, you wait and see. Who is going to take our guns? Here are a few noticeable problems. 1. I never like to talk about this issue given our current "PC" crap attitude in this country but immigration into the U.S. MUST STOP! Why? Because all these people come here from third world or socialist hell-holes, get the right to vote (if they bother to become citizens) and then they elect Socialistic LOCAL and FEDERAL legislators into office because they inherently will turn to what they know....doing nothing and having the government give things to them. Or Hispanic neighborhoods will simply vote Hispanic because they are Hispanic, same with African Americans. Go into Chicago and find one Black district that doesn't have a Black Senator/Rep it's non-exsistent. Many of these people wish to stay on welfare and smoke crack (I will not take the position that most minorities are crack smoking thugs, that would be ignorant, unfair and untrue but the VAST majority of violent crime committed in America is done by young black males and there is no argument there, this is simple truth) and the anti-gun Communists stay in power by handing out the checks and crying for these people because they are oppressed. Which is funny because I don't think any of these people have left this country to do military service and really witnessed oppression, nobody in America is oppressed. i.e. King Daley the 2nd who if you think about it can easily be compared to Saddam Hussein. No? A spoiled brat rich tyrant from a crime/political family who has been Mayor for 14 years living in plush wealth all the while Chicago once again becomes the murder capital of the U.S.? Worst public school system in the U.S. and highest unemployment of the big 3. Chicago is either completely unaffordable to accomodate those who march to the beat of the Furer, gay or absolute urban combat. Sound a little like Iraq? (minus the gay concensus obviously) So what happens when people sit around all day smoking crack? They begin to shoot at each other over it and we pay the price. They also often live in ghettos where almost ALL gun violence happens, believe me I grew up in Chicago. So the cities can't do anything because of lawsuits, the ACLU, the NAACP, police incompetence, lack of police morale, or in Chicago if you even try to attempt to arrest any criminal that is not white, you are blasted all over the media, fired and sued by someone that can't even speak English. Number 2 The United States needs to say bye-bye to the UN, they are the biggest gun control threat and just a general waste of any resource they consume. Finally, THEY (whomever they are) aren't taking a damn thing unless we let them. The framework of this country is still the way it was when we sent the Brits packing. Problem is people don't care in America anymore. All they care about is their checking account, getting a Hummer 2 and keeping up with the Jones' If you are a Baby Boomer, thanks much cause it's your generation that began the major disrespect for American values and tradition (except for the obvious great men whom fought for our way of life in Vietnam like several of my family members did) If you are a Boomer and you even said word one against America in the 60's, I don't care what you think now, this crap is your fault, period. Get involved and stir the sh!t storm. Sit around and belly-ache and start posts about naming your rifles and getting them ready for when the SHTF and all this archaic 1970's militia-crap nonsense will only make things worse and make you appear to be a wack-job to the everyday Joe. Sorry but to an anti-gunner naming your gun and some of the other things I read here makes us all look like wack-jobs, which we are not. I know in reality it's akin to Star Trek fans that just need a nice hot blonde for an hour and they will be ok. If you think they don't read these posts along with ATF, the DOJ and everyone else you are fooling yourself. Finally, it is time to take the rallying and lobbying tactics of the liberals. Million Mom March? Fine, then we have a Million Gun Owner March but nobody, not me not you not the NRA does this. Hippies sitting in trees so you can't cut it down? How about thousands of gun-owners showing up to court to defend Bushmaster and refuse to leave until you are drug-out by the cops with pepper spray in your eyes? It's time we stop hiding, stop being paranoid and for those of you with your SHTF rhetoric, you make things worse, much, much worse. In the very unlikely event some sort of military or police orginization shows up at your door to take your rifle, which is egotistical to think the police have nothing better to do than come for you and your flashlight mount I wish you the best of luck when you become a modern day minute man, you will last approx 2 seconds, we're not playing with flintlocks and poor British Riflemen anymore boys. And I will tell you you best pray none of those cops are Marines or I will personally guarntee that your 300lb ass is grass. I come from a military and law enforcement family, the police could care less about you and your AR. Do something stupid or illegal and yes they will come for you and you will then deserve it. So go ahead, fire away at me. I'm sure the pissed off responses to this are on the way. Who knows maybe I'll get kicked off this website for acting upon my First Ammendment right, wouldn't that be ironic? We need NEVER give up ANY gun rights but it's high time we grew up a bit and stopped portraying ourselves the exact same way the enemy does, cuz that's what we do at times, some of us. Or, just keep throwing fuel on their proverbial fire. Everytime you type out some sort of theory on what you're gonna do when the SHTF (which what most of you will do is wet your pants and cry) you hurt our cause. '94 AW Ban-it's a goner. Stepping off thre soapbox.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 8:47:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2003 8:58:03 PM EDT by jimtash9]
What I meant is if shooting rampages keep happening and the media keeps writing articles that say hundreds of rounds are fired but fail to explain with what type of weapon, what do you think the average person will think it was? A bolt action rifle or a military type rifle with a high capicity magazine. I would bet on the latter. And what has become of California with their laws? Don't you think that can happen anywhere else? Hell, your local city council can ban weapons if they feel they need to, ala Denver, CO. By the way, my parents immigrated here from Greece in 1967 and to say that immigrants are to blame for this or that is totally ignorant. My parents never imposed their ideas on anyone else. In fact they never even voted in an election. Never cared to because where they came from, elections were meaningless. All they did was try to make a better life for themselves as most immigrants do, and for people who had the disadvantage of not knowing how to read or write English, they did a hell of a lot better then many people born here and they did it with no government assistance.
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 6:43:45 PM EDT
My response to those who want to ban everything just because someone went insane and started shooting people: What, you want to take a way MY guns because some NUTCASE blew a gasket? How's THAT going to help? Do you really think such a law would matter to a whacko, anyway? I'd think that you'd be happy to know that your sane and decent neighbors have enough firepower to put that nutcase down for the count, if he should ever come into our neighborhood with guns blazing. Nobody can adequately protect you from crazies and criminals if they're not armed. I've used this simple argument with some success. A more elaborate version works even better. Of course, there are some who hate guns so much that there's no changing their course. Screw 'em. CJ
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 7:48:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jimtash9: What I meant is if shooting rampages keep happening and the media keeps writing articles that say hundreds of rounds are fired but fail to explain with what type of weapon, what do you think the average person will think it was? A bolt action rifle or a military type rifle with a high capicity magazine. I would bet on the latter. And what has become of California with their laws? Don't you think that can happen anywhere else? Hell, your local city council can ban weapons if they feel they need to, ala Denver, CO. By the way, my parents immigrated here from Greece in 1967 and to say that immigrants are to blame for this or that is totally ignorant. My parents never imposed their ideas on anyone else. In fact they never even voted in an election. Never cared to because where they came from, elections were meaningless. All they did was try to make a better life for themselves as most immigrants do, and for people who had the disadvantage of not knowing how to read or write English, they did a hell of a lot better then many people born here and they did it with no government assistance.
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I'm with you man and it's clear your parents were good people as they raised a strong defender of the U.S. Constitution. I did say it would be ignorant to classify an entire group of people and it would be but the truth remains that as long as things like welfare exsist and people like the 9/11 hi-jackers are let in the country, the dependence on government grows. When mass groups of people rely on the government as is the case as of now, it only serves to empower the government and enslave the people. I agree 150% the cities and home-rule laws are the absolute scariest of all. I have absolutely no fear of my 2nd ammendment rights stemming from John Ashcroft. But much to the effect of what you said in regards to Denver is true here in IL. The Mayor of Chicago and his team of thugs proposed legislation to ban and confiscate not only assault weapons, not only semi-auto's like garands but even your Remington 870. It's true. There has been so much public outrage much of it is stalled in commitees or stomped dead. But it is still lurking, and they will keep coming at us in IL. I pray to the gods of all things American that when the Senate seats come up in '04 we launch the liberals and make an Illinois gun-friendly like it once was years ago. I'm sure your parents are great folks, didn't mean to offend you bro.
Link Posted: 5/13/2003 8:45:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jimtash9: I hope the ban fades into distant memory myself but I wouldn't be suprised if they wrote a 5 year clause into the ban instead of 10 years. I also feel that one day we will be forced to modify our guns to comply with laws similar to California's with fixed magazines, etc. We have to face the fact that we are becoming a minority and along with cigarettes and fast food, guns are taboo and the public perception of the lawful gun owner as being a responsible citizen is skewed by the media and we are made to look like a radical who's time has passed. Just look at the shooting rampage that happened in Ohio last week. All that was said in the articles that I have read was that hundred of rounds were fired but they never reported with what type of weapon so I guess that everbody is left up to their own assumptions, right? Guess which weapons come to mind first and then remind yourself why the ban exsist in the first place and if it comes down to it, why we can easily be railroaded into giving up our guns because the current legislation in the minds of most people doesn't do enough to so call protect everybody. Think about it.
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What ever happened to dont give up without a fight. This isnt "The liberals want to take my gun mommy". Have confidence and you will succed. When the first ban passed the Liberals (I dont like using Dem and Rep because you really cant trust either side, just individuals) were in total control, House, Senate, and Pres. Mabey after it expires we (the NRA and etc.) will try to educate people without coming off like a bunch of nutcases. I wasnt always into guns and the first bill passed when I was 8 and ashamed to admit it as I am I actually remember seeing things on the news about how easy it was for criminals to buy "assault weapons" and etc. I belived it too. People just need the real facts and not a bunch of crap.
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 6:57:31 PM EDT
No offense taken patriot. Like I said before, as long as the media reports the story halfway without disclosing all the facts about these shooting rampages, the military type weapon will be suspect number 1. What most people don't understand is that I could shoot many rounds from my Beretta 9mm pistol in a short period of time and do quite a bit of damage. Does that also make it an assault weapon?
Link Posted: 5/14/2003 8:48:35 PM EDT
Technically yes. Thats why they outlawed hi cap mags. lol.
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 6:05:51 PM EDT
BTT its a good subject
Link Posted: 6/10/2003 11:06:00 PM EDT
The most important thing to do is get people out shooting. In the last two months I have introduced three new people to shooting as a hobby. If you get enough people doing something than the media dosn't portray them as whachos, see the media is like a whore whoever has the most money gets the best time. Seriosly though, I think lots of people who dont care about the AWB would really start carring if there was any real talk of collecting the guns. I feel that even if the ban is renewed it will be pretty much what we got now. Not that I want it renewed but are you really gonna want to bayonet those communist pigs when the come for your guns. [nono]
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 2:48:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2003 7:07:35 AM EDT by A_Free_Man]
At a little family get-together last week, my SISTER asked me, "You know about guns and all that, what is this I hear that they are going to start letting them sell machine guns again? I don't think anyone should have a machine gun." Well, the antis have really done a good job of confusing the "assault weapon" semi auto with machine guns. We have to combat this, and do a better job of educating the public that the AWB was a cosmetics ban, and nothing more. Further that the so-called assault weapons are NOT machine guns. I know, it is hard to do so when you have a media so willing to lie, to fabricate stories, to stage demonstrations. We need to do a better job. (Edited to add) I just sent my sister this link: [url]http://www.awbansunset.com/comparison.html[/url]
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