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11/24/2017 4:44:23 PM
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/10/2004 7:08:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/10/2004 7:09:40 AM EST by user426]
When the ban expires on Monday.... ..will it also remove the 50 oz weight restriction on AR pistols??? Are the pistols covered in the NY AWB?????
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 7:17:03 AM EST
Yes, the federal restriction is gone... I don't know about NY laws...
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 7:33:16 AM EST
Thanks......NY SUCKS
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 5:37:43 PM EST
Next question, how and where do I get a "Pistol" registered lower.

can a FFL order a lower and sell it to me as a pistol, etc...

or can I file a form to make a new firearm with atf out of an old one (ie: rifle to pistol)

?????
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 7:42:19 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 9:24:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By WTS-Mike:
Next question, how and where do I get a "Pistol" registered lower.

can a FFL order a lower and sell it to me as a pistol, etc...

or can I file a form to make a new firearm with atf out of an old one (ie: rifle to pistol)

?????


You do not need your lower engraved "pistol," you simply need a lower that has never had a shoulder stock mounted to it. Buy a lower only from a dealer, have him book it as a pistol out going and through a pistol recoil buffer tube on it. Done. Now this is not to say that CMMG is wrong for engraving I think Patriot arms did, but it is not a mandate. You still need to have some "idea" that it has never had a shoulder stock afixed to it.

Kentlik

"Arming Americans one fine "fire"arm at a time.
I'm a citizen, NOT a civilian...
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 9:35:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By Kentlik:
Buy a lower only from a dealer, have him book it as a pistol out going and through a pistol recoil buffer tube on it. Done



This isn't even required. The law only requires that a receiver was never built into a rifle. Doesn't matter what the 4473 says. If there ever was a question, the manufacturer would be able to confirm it left the factory as a stripped lower.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 5:41:20 AM EST
What is the difference between a pistol buffer tube & a rifle tube? Is it just a shorter tube? Would it not be legal to use a rifle tube? Where can I get one?

Link Posted: 9/12/2004 5:47:18 AM EST
What else is going to be allowed on pistol AR's? I am not well versed on this but would like to build one...
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 5:51:12 AM EST
Question. I understand the issue of not assembling a pistol from a lower that has never been built as a rifle. What I am curious about is the converse true? Can you take a pistol lower and assemble it into a rifle? Don't have one, and don't plan on doing so, just curious (I have a registered short barrelled shotgun that can't be made normal by just putting new barrels on it. ATF says once a short barrelled firearm always a short barrelled firearm.)
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 6:16:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/3/2005 3:35:42 AM EST by Quarterbore]

Originally Posted By Copper54:
Question. I understand the issue of not assembling a pistol from a lower that has never been built as a rifle. What I am curious about is the converse true? Can you take a pistol lower and assemble it into a rifle? Don't have one, and don't plan on doing so, just curious (I have a registered short barrelled shotgun that can't be made normal by just putting new barrels on it. ATF says once a short barrelled firearm always a short barrelled firearm.)



You can convert a pistol to a rifle configuration but it would still be a pistol in the eye of the law...

As for a SBR, it works the same way... your sghotgun will always be a SBR but there is no reason that you can not have a SBR with a barrel that is longer then the NFA minimum! When you put your 30-inch trap barrel on your SBR shotun it is still a SBR as it is registered as such but there is no law that says you can not have a LONG barrel on a SBR.

More on ar15 pistols:

quarterbore.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=130
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 6:28:42 AM EST
The shotgun would be worth rebarrelling if it wasn't stuck with that pain in the ass registration. It's an LC Smith that my dad acquired in the mid 60s after some idiot blew up the barrels & cut it back to 14 inches. In original condition it would fetch about $1500. Since its registered and short barrelled, nobody wants to take it off my hands. As a result, it's worth about $0.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 6:52:46 AM EST
How bout this: What if you lived in a state that a had a waiting period to buy a handgun.....and you already had a stripped lower....do I need to build it, have them hold on to it for a week, then take it home?
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 7:49:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/12/2004 7:58:41 AM EST by Big-Bore]
Mary Jane Humphrey, Louisville KY ATFE told me this, a stripped lower is sold as a stripped lower. Selling it as either a rifle or pistol MAY be a violation as there is no way of knowing ahead of time how it will be assembled. It is how YOU assemble it first that makes it a rifle or pistol. The NICS check means nothing as that check is not tied to a serial number.
So, get a stripped, never assembled lower, assemble it and document it and be done with it.
The letter shown on the above link in good, but the situation is that unless you get something in writing addressed to you, it is meaningless. And just trying to get the ATFE to respond on letterhead of late is an exercise if futility. I got my e-mails from MJH so that is going to have to do for me. My letters to the ATFE have gone unanswered for over a year now, and that amounts to over 24 letters. And how can a manufacturer know how the lower is going to be assembled?

Also, as an SBR, you can always have it removed from the registry. You need to contact the ATFE but I think it goes like this. You convert to non SBR status, then send the ATFE a letter telling them that you have converted it back to non SBR and want it removed from the registry. Then after you get back your letter from them acknowledging such, you can sell it as a non-SBR.


Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:04:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By WTS-Mike:
Next question, how and where do I get a "Pistol" registered lower.

can a FFL order a lower and sell it to me as a pistol, etc...

or can I file a form to make a new firearm with atf out of an old one (ie: rifle to pistol)

?????

dont know bout MI but in PA all lowers are registered as pistols. paperwork blows.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:19:15 AM EST

Originally Posted By Big-Bore:
Also, as an SBR, you can always have it removed from the registry. You need to contact the ATFE but I think it goes like this. You convert to non SBR status, then send the ATFE a letter telling them that you have converted it back to non SBR and want it removed from the registry. Then after you get back your letter from them acknowledging such, you can sell it as a non-SBR.



Visited with the ATF (in their office, in person) about this and was told, sorry, once it's registered, it's always registered. Same goes for fully auto. You can't take a full auto and convert it back to semi and not have to keep it registered. Course, why anyone with rock and roll capability would want to loose it is beyond my comprehension.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:23:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By Copper54:
Visited with the ATF (in their office, in person) about this and was told, sorry, once it's registered, it's always registered



What are you talking about? There is no "registration" of title I weapons.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:37:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:

Originally Posted By Copper54:
Visited with the ATF (in their office, in person) about this and was told, sorry, once it's registered, it's always registered



What are you talking about? There is no "registration" of title I weapons.



Read my post. I was talking about a 14 inch barrelled shotgun (off topic, sorry). Nothing to due with title I stuff.

By the way, all those yellow sheets that you fill out wind up at ATF if the dealer goes out of business. They're supposed to stay in the boxes there, but twice now ATF has compiled databases using those yellow sheets. Effectively, those guns became registered. Far as I know the courts have told em to cease and desist. They didn't pay any attention to the law that said they couldn't do it (twice), so who knows what they've done with those databases.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:43:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By Copper54:
Read my post. I was talking about a 14 inch barrelled shotgun (off topic, sorry). Nothing to due with title I stuff



I didn't catch the shotgun reference, disregard
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:40:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:

Originally Posted By Kentlik:
Buy a lower only from a dealer, have him book it as a pistol out going and through a pistol recoil buffer tube on it. Done



This isn't even required. The law only requires that a receiver was never built into a rifle. Doesn't matter what the 4473 says. If there ever was a question, the manufacturer would be able to confirm it left the factory as a stripped lower.



True, just thought even a modicum of documentation may make someone feel better.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:46:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By Big-Bore:
Mary Jane Humphrey, Louisville KY ATFE told me this, a stripped lower is sold as a stripped lower. Selling it as either a rifle or pistol MAY be a violation as there is no way of knowing ahead of time how it will be assembled. It is how YOU assemble it first that makes it a rifle or pistol. The NICS check means nothing as that check is not tied to a serial number.
So, get a stripped, never assembled lower, assemble it and document it and be done with it.
The letter shown on the above link in good, but the situation is that unless you get something in writing addressed to you, it is meaningless. And just trying to get the ATFE to respond on letterhead of late is an exercise if futility. I got my e-mails from MJH so that is going to have to do for me. My letters to the ATFE have gone unanswered for over a year now, and that amounts to over 24 letters. And how can a manufacturer know how the lower is going to be assembled?

Also, as an SBR, you can always have it removed from the registry. You need to contact the ATFE but I think it goes like this. You convert to non SBR status, then send the ATFE a letter telling them that you have converted it back to non SBR and want it removed from the registry. Then after you get back your letter from them acknowledging such, you can sell it as a non-SBR.




Are you a dealer? Not that it matters to me in the slightest, but I am and I get everyone of my letters answered in writing, they have too. Call them and ask about your letters and when you will get a response. Give dates of each letter, to give them something to go by. I just had Ms. Cheeks help me out alot, as she miss read my last import letter and form six app. For AUG stuff I have coming in.

It may take a year, as it did with my US AUG compliance letter, but it came.

Kentlik
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:57:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By CMMG:
We are getting a run of AR lowers engraved as pistols. We'll be getting them in this week.

Jeff



Jeff, I hope you save one for me I'll call tomorrow to make sure I get my name on one.

Jerad
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 5:01:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By Colt_sporter:
How bout this: What if you lived in a state that a had a waiting period to buy a handgun.....and you already had a stripped lower....do I need to build it, have them hold on to it for a week, then take it home?



Can someone answer this?

Jerad
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:13:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By rickinvegas:

Originally Posted By Kentlik:
Buy a lower only from a dealer, have him book it as a pistol out going and through a pistol recoil buffer tube on it. Done



This isn't even required. The law only requires that a receiver was never built into a rifle. Doesn't matter what the 4473 says. If there ever was a question, the manufacturer would be able to confirm it left the factory as a stripped lower.



This is true with the federal regs I have read...NOTE-If your state treats pistols and handguns differently then make sure you are complying with state laws that might be more strict than the federal laws. If pistols are registered or handled more strict in your state you better cover your A$$ and get it logged out to you as a pistol lower.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 10:38:54 AM EST
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