Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Site Notices
Posted: 5/4/2004 2:27:44 PM EST
Is there an approximate date (maybe already passed) that we will be able to say with almost complete certainty that a new ban can't be enacted in time for there to be no time b/w it's enactment and the AWB sunset. Just wondering. It'll be interesting to see what all those people selling preban lowers in auctions will do.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 2:40:04 PM EST
The day after the law lapses into history.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 2:42:20 PM EST
I am not sure if there is a "drop dead date", but here are my observations.

Prebans are for sale all over the place and prices are steadily dropping. Anyone who wants to get that huge premium wants to get it now, as the future of high priced preban guns seems to be in serious jeapordy. So they want buyers NOW. Remember you are only paying for the serial number and a few, relatively meaningless features (in the big scheme of things).

It is the beginning of May. Congress takes a week off at the end of this month for Memorial Day, they take a week off near the 4th of July and they take two weeks off in August. So of the next 19 weeks or so of time for legislation to be pushed through, 4 of those Congress isn't even in session.

I will give the gun grabbers some credit - they are a crafty bunch and there are no guarantees. They will stop at no end to get their message across and will try to tie BS legislation to anything that they can. So we wait and see.

It would seem that the odds are on our side on this issue. I hope that is the case.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 2:47:30 PM EST
From what I understand it seems that if a new law of the same nature as the AWB were passed on Sept 15th having just that one day w/out a ban would make things a lot cheaper. Wouldn't that mean that all stuff manufactured before the 15th would then be considered preban?
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 2:55:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/4/2004 2:55:47 PM EST by s0ulzer0]

Originally Posted By aakast42:
From what I understand it seems that if a new law of the same nature as the AWB were passed on Sept 15th having just that one day w/out a ban would make things a lot cheaper. Wouldn't that mean that all stuff manufactured before the 15th would then be considered preban?



Only if that new law "grandfathered" existing weapons like the AWB did.
If not, you're SOL.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 3:35:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By s0ulzer0:
Only if that new law "grandfathered" existing weapons like the AWB did.
If not, you're SOL.



The 94 ban barely became law with the grandfather clause. The probability of a stricter law passing now is very, very small.

Myself, I'm wondering what will happen to post-ban prices after Sept. I suspect they will drop slightly. Most people will want the "evil" features . . .
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 3:43:57 PM EST
Do we all really think the anti-gun crowed is smart enough to realize that in the event of an invasion on US soil the guys with the guns are going to be out fighting too? No. Humans aren't that smart. More strict laws? I can sure as hell see them thanks to the uneducated scum sucking masses.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 3:45:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By s0ulzer0:

Originally Posted By aakast42:
From what I understand it seems that if a new law of the same nature as the AWB were passed on Sept 15th having just that one day w/out a ban would make things a lot cheaper. Wouldn't that mean that all stuff manufactured before the 15th would then be considered preban?



Only if that new law "grandfathered" existing weapons like the AWB did.
If not, you're SOL.



If they enact a new law after Sept. 14th with no "grandfather clause" then we are all SOL! You're "pre-ban" will be included with our "post-bans"
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 4:10:45 PM EST
I forsee nothing getting cheaper here in Kerry country. Pre-bans will still be at a premium.
Unfortunate, but true in states like this, with its own ban.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 4:27:44 PM EST
consider this:
GW said he supported the AWB as it is(perhaps a tricky play on words as it contained the sunset clause)I don't think he will sign a new bill that is more restrictive, but I am pretty certain that no new AWB can be sustained in the House of Representatives. They just don't have the support.They will try to amend some popular bill with the AWB language , but I believe there are rules that require all amendments to be closely related to the main bill as to subject, so they can't just add it to anything without it being struck down as not being relevant


Link Posted: 5/4/2004 4:55:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By airgunner:

Originally Posted By s0ulzer0:

Originally Posted By aakast42:
From what I understand it seems that if a new law of the same nature as the AWB were passed on Sept 15th having just that one day w/out a ban would make things a lot cheaper. Wouldn't that mean that all stuff manufactured before the 15th would then be considered preban?



Only if that new law "grandfathered" existing weapons like the AWB did.
If not, you're SOL.



If they enact a new law after Sept. 14th with no "grandfather clause" then we are all SOL! You're "pre-ban" will be included with our "post-bans"



No kidding. I wasn't meaning a "singular".

~ s0ulzer0
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 5:01:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By DonS:
Myself, I'm wondering what will happen to post-ban prices after Sept. I suspect they will drop slightly. Most people will want the "evil" features . . .



IMO, prices on new rifles won't change at all. Why would they drop prices?
The only prices that will drop are on old "prebans".
You'll still have to pay an extra $65-$80 to add a telestock to your build too.
We'll still be paying $795 or more for a new AR.

~ s0ulzer0
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 8:56:59 AM EST
Actually I predict a temporary spike in rifle prices, and a temporary but much larger spike in "the upper previously known as pre-ban" and collapsable stocks too.

Law of supply and demand. That's why I'm buying mine now and storing them away from my post-ban.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 9:06:23 AM EST

Originally Posted By NESurvival:
Actually I predict a temporary spike in rifle prices, and a temporary but much larger spike in "the upper previously known as pre-ban" and collapsable stocks too.

Law of supply and demand. That's why I'm buying mine now and storing them away from my post-ban.



That's about what I was thinking. al those asses that have been raping people on pre-ban prices will be stuck with their crap because people will just go out and buy a nice new one. But there will probably be a major flood of people running to get their no-ban AR's. I see shop owners sitting by the TV/Radio waiting to here whether the AWB goes away or not and as soon as they find out they'll mark shit up... if not then, at least after their shops are cleaned out and they slowly start replenishing their stock... once things calm down after all that prices should probably go up just a bit because all the people who have have been holding out for a pre-ban will probably go with a new one and therefore the deman will have increased slightly.

I would also guess that people are going to run, not walk, to their local shops in fear of a new AWB getting passed not long after the sunset. Stocking up while their in the clear.

Same goes for all the evil parts, if not worse. Tele-stock demand will rise as is evident in a lot of threads... people chomping at the bit to put one on their AR. That and flash suppressors.

IMO
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 9:26:01 AM EST
I’m with Stryfe.

Up until 12:01AM on the 15th I’ll keep holding my breath. As optimistic as I am there are a bunch of shysters up there and I could never put it past them to include a little quip at the last minute into another bill. That’s what they did to us in 1986 with machineguns.

-J
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 10:46:11 AM EST
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 11:00:12 AM EST
Ha, I already got all my evil features secured for my two post bans.

No Mr. ATF, they are not located at my house.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:00:28 PM EST
I'm having a party at 12:00 on the 13th! Everyone from ar15.com is invited! Finally we get our 'bad' accessories put on our weapons! I'm going to be just that more deadly with my collapsble buttstock! FEAR!
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:09:17 PM EST

Originally Posted By airgunner:

Originally Posted By s0ulzer0:

Originally Posted By aakast42:
From what I understand it seems that if a new law of the same nature as the AWB were passed on Sept 15th having just that one day w/out a ban would make things a lot cheaper. Wouldn't that mean that all stuff manufactured before the 15th would then be considered preban?



Only if that new law "grandfathered" existing weapons like the AWB did.
If not, you're SOL.



If they enact a new law after Sept. 14th with no "grandfather clause" then we are all SOL! You're "pre-ban" will be included with our "post-bans"



A post 9/14 law with no "grandfather clause" would mean that even AW's that we own right now, today would be illegal and would have to be turned in.

I wonder how well that would go over.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:19:02 PM EST

Originally Posted By pathfinder74:
Originally Posted By NESurvival:

That's about what I was thinking. al those asses that have been raping people on pre-ban prices will be stuck with their crap because people will just go out and buy a nice new one.



I can't wait for the ban to be over so that this complaint will go away. Dealers couldn't sell for the price they do if there weren't people to buy them. I would sell my house for 10 million dollars right now if I could. And I wouldn't consider it rape and neither would you.

What I'd really be interested to see would be whether there were close out or clearence sales on posty configs. I mean a rifle with a faux telestock should be worth 100 bucks less than one with a real telestock. I wonder if there will be a sell down this summer.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:21:29 PM EST
First of all i highly doubt new AWB will be passed or the current AWB renewed.

The suggesting that there be a newAWB with no "grandfather" caluse is just absurd.

If you did not notice every single gun law has "grandfather" caluse, why u might ask??? The 5th Amendment which says, "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Even disreagrding , there is no way suck a bill would even make it out of the house or reps.

ridiculous

halik
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:27:15 PM EST
Well, we've probably been taking this stuff too easy, for too long as it is. Maybe it's time to organize our own "million man march," armed men that is. Could you imagine several hundred thousand firearms owners showing up, with firearms, in D.C. for a civil protest? I don't know that the question is what would they do, but what could they do? I imagine that would be a real wake up call in Washington.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 12:41:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By halik:
First of all i highly doubt new AWB will be passed or the current AWB renewed.

The suggesting that there be a newAWB with no "grandfather" caluse is just absurd.

If you did not notice every single gun law has "grandfather" caluse, why u might ask??? The 5th Amendment which says, "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Even disreagrding , there is no way suck a bill would even make it out of the house or reps.

ridiculous

halik



Maybe so, I'm sure that was the way everyone thought in 1994 too.
I'll believe it when I see it, until then, it's all unknown.
Remember - it was about to PASS until they threw on the manufacturer's protection from lawsuits.
NONE of those guys are our friends.

~ s0ulzer0
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:07:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 1:09:38 PM EST by CJan_NH]

Originally Posted By Troy:
12:00am on September 13, 2004

-Troy


Exactly.

While things may look promising now, how many times in recorded history have we actually gained ground instead of lost it?

I read the news, content, and press release pages of a half dozen antigun sites daily. They are building up to a giant media orgasm with unprecedented coordination. 50cal "sniper" rifles are currently being vilified, along with any of the so-called assault weapons already covered by the ban. They are doing a great job tying these weapons to domestic terrorism and slain police officers.

They are already locked and loaded with bogus data and loaded statistics. All they need now is a Columbine or Stockton, CA type schoolyard shooting and they'll have everything they need to finish the job. I'm a registered Republican, but at the moment I don't trust anyone. We've been sold out before, I have no reason to believe that it won't happen again.

I truly hope that I am dead wrong, but there is plenty of history and precedent to support my position.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:32:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By s0ulzer0:

Originally Posted By halik:
First of all i highly doubt new AWB will be passed or the current AWB renewed.

The suggesting that there be a newAWB with no "grandfather" caluse is just absurd.

If you did not notice every single gun law has "grandfather" caluse, why u might ask??? The 5th Amendment which says, "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Even disreagrding , there is no way suck a bill would even make it out of the house or reps.

ridiculous

halik



Maybe so, I'm sure that was the way everyone thought in 1994 too.
I'll believe it when I see it, until then, it's all unknown.
Remember - it was about to PASS until they threw on the manufacturer's protection from lawsuits.
NONE of those guys are our friends.

~ s0ulzer0




My friend, if you're referring to the recent Senate vote, you've got it backwards. The libs tacked on the AWB extention to kill the manufacturer's protection.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:33:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 1:38:37 PM EST by motown_steve]

Originally Posted By halik:
First of all i highly doubt new AWB will be passed or the current AWB renewed.

The suggesting that there be a newAWB with no "grandfather" caluse is just absurd.

If you did not notice every single gun law has "grandfather" caluse, why u might ask??? The 5th Amendment which says, "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Even disreagrding , there is no way suck a bill would even make it out of the house or reps.

ridiculous

halik



Really? Allow me to introduce you to HR2038 (House of Representitives) and it's sister S1431 (Senate). These bill would expand the AWB by specifically outlawing:

"The following rifles or copies or duplicates thereof:

AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR, AR-10, AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, or Olympic Arms PCR, AR70, Calico Liberty, Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU, Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC, Hi-Point Carbine, HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, or HK-PSG-1, Kel-Tec Sub Rifle, M1 Carbine, Saiga, SAR-8, SAR-4800, SKS with detachable magazine, SLG 95, SLR 95 or 96, Steyr AUG, Sturm, Ruger Mini-14, Tavor, Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, Thompson 1927 Commando, Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz), Calico M-110, MAC-10, MAC-11, MPA3, Olympic Arms OA TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, AB-10, Uzi, Armscor 30 BG, SPAS 12 or LAW 12, Striker 12, Streetsweeper."

and...

A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine, and that has--

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a threaded barrel;

(iii) a pistol grip;

(iv) a forward grip; or

(v) a barrel shroud. (a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel of a firearm so that the shroud protects the user of the firearm from heat generated by the barrel)

There goes 97% of the rifles YOU AND I OWN!!!

Also-

The current "Grandfather Clause" in the title 18 section 922 (v) of the United States Code reads:

(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to manufacture, transfer, or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon.

(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession or transfer of any semiautomatic assault weapon otherwise lawfully possessed under Federal law on the date of the enactment of this subsection.


These 2 bills would change the "Grandfather Clause" in title 18 section 922 (v) of the United States Code to read:

(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to manufacture, transfer, or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon.

(2) (A)Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession or transfer of any semiautomatic assault weapon otherwise lawfully possessed under Federal law as of September 13, 1994'.

(B) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm the possession or transfer of which would (but for this subparagraph) be unlawful by reason of this subsection, and which is otherwise lawfully possessed on the date of the enactment of this subparagraph.'.


The "post-bans" would be "all-ban", and the "pre-bans" would be the only thing allowed.

If this thing goes through, it's lights out! Party's over boys turn them in! The house version has 108 co-sponsers and the senate version has 14. Weak at the moment, but it could pick up steam real quick in a couple of months!!!
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 1:37:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By BookHound:

Originally Posted By s0ulzer0:

Originally Posted By halik:
First of all i highly doubt new AWB will be passed or the current AWB renewed.

The suggesting that there be a newAWB with no "grandfather" caluse is just absurd.

If you did not notice every single gun law has "grandfather" caluse, why u might ask??? The 5th Amendment which says, "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Even disreagrding , there is no way suck a bill would even make it out of the house or reps.

ridiculous

halik



Maybe so, I'm sure that was the way everyone thought in 1994 too.
I'll believe it when I see it, until then, it's all unknown.
Remember - it was about to PASS until they threw on the manufacturer's protection from lawsuits.
NONE of those guys are our friends.

~ s0ulzer0




My friend, if you're referring to the recent Senate vote, you've got it backwards. The libs tacked on the AWB extention to kill the manufacturer's protection.



You sure about that Book?

~ s0ulzer0
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 2:03:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By s0ulzer0:

Originally Posted By BookHound:

Originally Posted By s0ulzer0:

Originally Posted By halik:
First of all i highly doubt new AWB will be passed or the current AWB renewed.

The suggesting that there be a newAWB with no "grandfather" caluse is just absurd.

If you did not notice every single gun law has "grandfather" caluse, why u might ask??? The 5th Amendment which says, "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Even disreagrding , there is no way suck a bill would even make it out of the house or reps.

ridiculous

halik



Maybe so, I'm sure that was the way everyone thought in 1994 too.
I'll believe it when I see it, until then, it's all unknown.
Remember - it was about to PASS until they threw on the manufacturer's protection from lawsuits.
NONE of those guys are our friends.

~ s0ulzer0




My friend, if you're referring to the recent Senate vote, you've got it backwards. The libs tacked on the AWB extention to kill the manufacturer's protection.



You sure about that Book?

~ s0ulzer0



He's sure. The AWB extension was added to the manufacturers protection bill. The bills sponsors had to Sh!t can the bill to kill the ammendment.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 2:10:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By Stryfe:

Originally Posted By s0ulzer0:

Originally Posted By BookHound:

Originally Posted By s0ulzer0:

Originally Posted By halik:
First of all i highly doubt new AWB will be passed or the current AWB renewed.

The suggesting that there be a newAWB with no "grandfather" caluse is just absurd.

If you did not notice every single gun law has "grandfather" caluse, why u might ask??? The 5th Amendment which says, "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Even disreagrding , there is no way suck a bill would even make it out of the house or reps.

ridiculous

halik



Maybe so, I'm sure that was the way everyone thought in 1994 too.
I'll believe it when I see it, until then, it's all unknown.
Remember - it was about to PASS until they threw on the manufacturer's protection from lawsuits.
NONE of those guys are our friends.

~ s0ulzer0




My friend, if you're referring to the recent Senate vote, you've got it backwards. The libs tacked on the AWB extention to kill the manufacturer's protection.



You sure about that Book?

~ s0ulzer0



He's sure. The AWB extension was added to the manufacturers protection bill. The bills sponsors had to Sh!t can the bill to kill the ammendment.



Ok, I stand corrected on that.
Well, damn...there may be hope after all....I was all gloomed out.

~ s0ulzer0
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 2:46:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By halik:
First of all i highly doubt new AWB will be passed or the current AWB renewed.

The suggesting that there be a newAWB with no "grandfather" caluse is just absurd.

If you did not notice every single gun law has "grandfather" caluse, why u might ask??? The 5th Amendment which says, "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Even disreagrding , there is no way suck a bill would even make it out of the house or reps.

ridiculous

halik



Really? Allow me to introduce you to HR2038 (House of Representitives) and it's sister S1431 (Senate). These bill would expand the AWB by specifically outlawing:

"The following rifles or copies or duplicates thereof:

AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR, AR-10, AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, or Olympic Arms PCR, AR70, Calico Liberty, Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU, Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC, Hi-Point Carbine, HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, or HK-PSG-1, Kel-Tec Sub Rifle, M1 Carbine, Saiga, SAR-8, SAR-4800, SKS with detachable magazine, SLG 95, SLR 95 or 96, Steyr AUG, Sturm, Ruger Mini-14, Tavor, Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, Thompson 1927 Commando, Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz), Calico M-110, MAC-10, MAC-11, MPA3, Olympic Arms OA TEC-9, TEC-DC9, TEC-22 Scorpion, AB-10, Uzi, Armscor 30 BG, SPAS 12 or LAW 12, Striker 12, Streetsweeper."

and...

A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine, and that has--

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a threaded barrel;

(iii) a pistol grip;

(iv) a forward grip; or

(v) a barrel shroud. (a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel of a firearm so that the shroud protects the user of the firearm from heat generated by the barrel)

There goes 97% of the rifles YOU AND I OWN!!!

Also-

The current "Grandfather Clause" in the title 18 section 922 (v) of the United States Code reads:

(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to manufacture, transfer, or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon.

(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession or transfer of any semiautomatic assault weapon otherwise lawfully possessed under Federal law on the date of the enactment of this subsection.


These 2 bills would change the "Grandfather Clause" in title 18 section 922 (v) of the United States Code to read:

(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to manufacture, transfer, or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon.

(2) (A)Paragraph (1) shall not apply to the possession or transfer of any semiautomatic assault weapon otherwise lawfully possessed under Federal law as of September 13, 1994'.

(B) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to any firearm the possession or transfer of which would (but for this subparagraph) be unlawful by reason of this subsection, and which is otherwise lawfully possessed on the date of the enactment of this subparagraph.'.


The "post-bans" would be "all-ban", and the "pre-bans" would be the only thing allowed.

If this thing goes through, it's lights out! Party's over boys turn them in! The house version has 108 co-sponsers and the senate version has 14. Weak at the moment, but it could pick up steam real quick in a couple of months!!!




I never said there aren't any crazy "proposals" othere, shit there's probably couple to ever single major topic. Just because there is a bill on the floor, it doesn't mean it will get passed or even be brought forward for voting. WOW 14 senatros signed, yepty-do, shit 1/2 of them are probably the brady bunch alone. Too bad you need 51 for it to even pass the Senate, and that not even consedering house of reps. That's 37 more sentors in order to get it thru the Senate, and considering very few senators voted to even EXTEND the AWB, even less will vote for HARSHER AWB

Let's wanke up and be serious....

halik
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 2:56:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By Troy:
12:00am on September 13, 2004

-Troy



Damn Waiting sux
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 4:40:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By s0ulzer0:

Ok, I stand corrected on that.
Well, damn...there may be hope after all....I was all gloomed out.

~ s0ulzer0



Silly boy, don't be gloomed out. It's all that black you wear. You should try some bright, happy colors, like mauve or a nice lavender.

Seriously, that vote felt like a major victory against any AWB extension. Except for a few hard-core gun-grabbers, both sides know this is a bad political issue. Neither side wants to deal with it right now in the middle of an election year. The dems can say they tried, but the evil repubs voted them down. The dems really won a huge victory in getting the manufacturer’s protection shot down. So, the dems are happy. The ban will die. I totally believe that. I also believe something else WILL replace it in the near future.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 4:46:13 AM EST

Originally Posted By BookHound:
The ban will die. I totally believe that. I also believe something else WILL replace it in the near future.



That wouldn't surprise me at all.
I guess I'll pick up a few more RRA receivers.

~ s0ulzer0
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 5:13:56 AM EST

Originally Posted By BookHound:
The ban will die. I totally believe that. I also believe something else WILL replace it in the near future.




Pretty much what I'm thinking as well. Give the gun grabbers credit. They never quit.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 9:20:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By NESurvival:
Law of supply and demand. That's why I'm buying mine now and storing them away from my post-ban.

Ya sure. Storing them away. Yup. Just "storing them away..?" Yup sure. Nudge. Wink.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 9:56:24 AM EST

Originally Posted By halik:
First of all i highly doubt new AWB will be passed or the current AWB renewed.

The suggesting that there be a newAWB with no "grandfather" caluse is just absurd.

If you did not notice every single gun law has "grandfather" caluse, why u might ask??? The 5th Amendment which says, "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Even disreagrding , there is no way suck a bill would even make it out of the house or reps.

ridiculous

halik


The 5th amendment is great when it comes to real estate, but it is often less protective of personal property.

They could always value them at a couple hundred bucks and pay us for them. Wasn't that the plan in Australia? What is the market value of a weapon that is illegal to own? But gun grabbing would probably go over poorly here.

Or, the smart thing to do would be to make them subject to the NFA, and then jack up the tax.

The smartest thing they could do would be to ban all the high caps without a grandfather clause.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 11:47:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By imposter:

Originally Posted By halik:
First of all i highly doubt new AWB will be passed or the current AWB renewed.

The suggesting that there be a newAWB with no "grandfather" caluse is just absurd.

If you did not notice every single gun law has "grandfather" caluse, why u might ask??? The 5th Amendment which says, "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Even disreagrding , there is no way suck a bill would even make it out of the house or reps.

ridiculous

halik


The 5th amendment is great when it comes to real estate, but it is often less protective of personal property.

They could always value them at a couple hundred bucks and pay us for them. Wasn't that the plan in Australia? What is the market value of a weapon that is illegal to own? But gun grabbing would probably go over poorly here.

Or, the smart thing to do would be to make them subject to the NFA, and then jack up the tax.

The smartest thing they could do would be to ban all the high caps without a grandfather clause.


Why do people try to bring the Fifth Amendment into discussions like this?

If the .gov BANNED all guns tomorrow you would receive exactly $0 in compensation, because they are NOT taking your gun for public use. They are making your gun illegal. When the government made marijuana and heroin illegal, they did not compensate anyone a penny for the stocks they held. Not a single brewer or distiller got one penny of compensation when Prohibition took effect.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 3:22:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 3:23:08 PM EST by shaggy]

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:
Why do people try to bring the Fifth Amendment into discussions like this?

If the .gov BANNED all guns tomorrow you would receive exactly $0 in compensation, because they are NOT taking your gun for public use. They are making your gun illegal. When the government made marijuana and heroin illegal, they did not compensate anyone a penny for the stocks they held. Not a single brewer or distiller got one penny of compensation when Prohibition took effect.



Why do people bring the 5th Amendment into this? Because the US Constitution does not begin and end with the 2nd Amendment. The 5th Amendment IS applicable here.

Like almost any other area of law, Fifth Amendment jurisprudence has advanced and evolved an enormous amount in the last 80 years or so. In fact such a gun ban would constitute a taking under the 5th Amendment. The public use would be any reason proffered as the underlying purpose of the legislation; most likely public safety. Because the government would be criminalizing your possession of your formerly legal property, and thus depriving you of any economic benefit or use thereof for the purpose of promoting public safety for all Americans, you would not have to bear that cost alone. The government would have to pay you for the deprivation of the economic value of your property because ostensibly all Americans would derive benefit from your loss.
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 4:04:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By Troy:
12:00am on September 13, 2004

-Troy



Let's see, 12:00am on september 13, 2004 will put you 24 hours too early. Every day starts at 12:00am



Make that 11:59pm on september13, 2004
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 8:05:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By halik:

I never said there aren't any crazy "proposals" othere, shit there's probably couple to ever single major topic. Just because there is a bill on the floor, it doesn't mean it will get passed or even be brought forward for voting. WOW 14 senatros signed, yepty-do, shit 1/2 of them are probably the brady bunch alone. Too bad you need 51 for it to even pass the Senate, and that not even consedering house of reps. That's 37 more sentors in order to get it thru the Senate, and considering very few senators voted to even EXTEND the AWB, even less will vote for HARSHER AWB

Let's wanke up and be serious....

halik



Gee Halik, I like your "roll over and take it from behind" attitude. For your information, S1034 only had 14 co-sponsors also and all of them were "Brady Bunchers". However, when it came to the floor, the US Senate voted 52-47 in favor of adding it as an ammendment to the Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.

Also Halik, there are 108 members in the House of Representitives that have co-sponsored this bill. Keep in mind that this is an election year. And unlike 1994, most voters are focused on job losses and the war in Iraq, and politicians constantly make horse trades with our rights.

Don't ever think for one second that this thing is on cruise control! If gun owners are not vocal and unified we will lose our right to bear arms!

"We will come back, and we will come back, and we will come back again, If we cannot get it done by September 13th then you can be sure we will come back to fight another day" - Sen. Dianne Feinstein
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 8:12:11 PM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By halik:

I never said there aren't any crazy "proposals" othere, shit there's probably couple to ever single major topic. Just because there is a bill on the floor, it doesn't mean it will get passed or even be brought forward for voting. WOW 14 senatros signed, yepty-do, shit 1/2 of them are probably the brady bunch alone. Too bad you need 51 for it to even pass the Senate, and that not even consedering house of reps. That's 37 more sentors in order to get it thru the Senate, and considering very few senators voted to even EXTEND the AWB, even less will vote for HARSHER AWB

Let's wanke up and be serious....

halik



Gee Halik, I like your "roll over and take it from behind" attitude. For your information, S1034 only had 14 co-sponsors also and all of them were "Brady Bunchers". However, when it came to the floor, the US Senate voted 52-47 in favor of adding it as an ammendment to the Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.

Also Halik, there are 108 members in the House of Representitives that have co-sponsored this bill. Keep in mind that this is an election year. And unlike 1994, most voters are focused on job losses and the war in Iraq, and politicians constantly make horse trades with our rights.

Don't ever think for one second that this thing is on cruise control! If gun owners are not vocal and unified we will lose our right to bear arms!

"We will come back, and we will come back, and we will come back again, If we cannot get it done by September 13th then you can be sure we will come back to fight another day" - Sen. Dianne Feinstein




Motownsteve,

"roll over and take it from behind" attitude you say huh???? -FYI I wrote personal letter to both of our senaters and all (15) of our represenatives stating my position on AWB. If that's "roll over and take it from behind" attitude, I wonder what YOU DID to make sure AWB expries....

halik
Link Posted: 5/6/2004 8:30:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 12:50:55 AM EST

Originally Posted By Carbine_Man:

Originally Posted By NESurvival:
Law of supply and demand. That's why I'm buying mine now and storing them away from my post-ban.

Ya sure. Storing them away. Yup. Just "storing them away..?" Yup sure. Nudge. Wink.



Hey, look where I am GERMANY. It would be REAL hard to nail me with constructive intent from four thousand miles away when the parts to make said weapon would be in two different (American) locations.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 1:10:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Troy:

Originally Posted By brewsky101:

Originally Posted By Troy:
12:00am on September 13, 2004

-Troy



Let's see, 12:00am on september 13, 2004 will put you 24 hours too early. Every day starts at 12:00am



Make that 11:59pm on september13, 2004



The law went into effect at 12:00am on 9/13/94, and expires at 12:00am on 9/13/2004.

-Troy




Ding! Ding! Ding!

Why does everybody think they have to wait until Sept. 14th? I'm planning on putting my shit on Sept. 13th.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 1:11:56 AM EST
I think we all agree that there will be some form of ban in the future.
I also think that we are going to see a lot of state legislative activity prior to september.

Which sucks, of course.
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 6:19:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2004 6:22:25 AM EST by motown_steve]

Originally posted by Halik:
Motownsteve,

"roll over and take it from behind" attitude you say huh???? -FYI I wrote personal letter to both of our senaters and all (15) of our represenatives stating my position on AWB. If that's "roll over and take it from behind" attitude, I wonder what YOU DID to make sure AWB expries....

halik




I wrote, and called both of our Senators multiple time urging them to vote against any bill expanding or extend the AWB. During the timne that S.1805 was on the Senate floor I called and e-mailed Levin and Stabenow everyday urging them to vote the bill down if any ammendments extending or expanding the AWB were added. I also got 3 other people to write Levin and Stabenow voicing opposition to extending the AWB. I've also written Sander Levin (my Rep.) half a dozen times.

BTW...Both Levin and Stabenow voted to add the ammendment to extend the AWB to S.1805!

I'm glad you're active, but you have to stay active! The jackasses in congress are not listening yet!
Link Posted: 5/7/2004 6:33:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 5/7/2004 6:33:32 AM EST by Hawkeye]
Please continue in General Discussion. Thanks.
Top Top