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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 9/14/2003 7:41:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 8:12:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2003 8:27:40 PM EDT by G35]
Do you have children in the house ? How often do you have company over ? Do you often have guest that bring children over ? These questions will have a huge bearing on any advice. For me, I have my AR continuely "on duty". It is always chambered with a round, and have the safety on. When at home, it is in a carry case, unlocked, and unlatched. The case is on the floor next to the bed. The reason it is in the case is because my wife does not like continuely seeing that "scarey black gun." So, the case keeps it from being openly seen. At least the wife is not scared of seeing my carry pistol, which does openly sit next to the bed when it is not holstered (I got CHL). Sometimes, I carry the AR with me in the car (legal in Texas). It is always loaded, safety on (Condition One). In the car, it is in the passagner seat and covered with a black towel (not required by law, but required by "wise judgement"). I have no young children, but one teenager. It is my responibilty to lock-up the AR before leaving the house, or leaving the AR unattended. Also, it is my responsibilty to lock-up the guns whenever guest arrive. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 8:25:53 PM EDT
On the floor next to my bed. My bed is about 3 feet from the wall, and there is a shelf there that has books on it. No one ever walks back there, except to make the bed. You can't see where it lies from the outside. It stays there on condition one. In fact, that's where it is right now.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 8:29:18 PM EDT
I was not aware storing an AR was advisable in condition 1. There is no firing pin stop, that I know of. I am often wrong, but I do know that sometimes when I eject an unfired round, I can still see the faint indentation of the firing pin, from the pins inertia with the bolt closing. ARs are not drop dafe, even with the safety on...so I have heard. Anyways...I am in the same dilema. I dont want just anyone to lay their hands on my baby, and I have kids. I keep mine inside my long(ish) leather jacket hanging in the corner of my closet. (the sling looped around the tough heavy jacket hanger) You cant see it, and I can get to it quick. Unloaded, cuz of the kids...but I have a clip on the top shelf of the closet in the extra shoe bin, and one in the kitchen in the spice rack. Not likely to be stumbled upon in any case, but exactly where I will need it.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 8:34:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By stuporman: ... and one in the kitchen in the spice rack.
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Yummm, honey...what's in this casserole? Oh, just a pinch of XM193, dear.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 8:38:55 PM EDT
Oh, for in the house I prefer the lighter body and more robust flavor of 45gr JHP tacs. Goes well with chicken, fish, and beef. [NI]
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 8:43:27 PM EDT
Slam fires are virtually nonexistant since the redesigning of the firing pins. Don't worry about the indentation, it isn't anywhere near enough force to set off the round.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 8:51:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2003 8:52:21 PM EDT by SMGLee]
Just being a devils advocate, By using an AR, you add fuel for the LE or the opposition lawyer's case against you. especially in a civil law suit, you will be made an evil man out to kill for the sake of it. use a basic firearm such as an 870 or a factory pistol you lessen the chance you will be a target that might destory your family in the the court system. I am not trying to tell you how to defend your family, but just food for thoughts.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 8:59:21 PM EDT
Good advice, and true to your tagline. "Fly low and avoid the radar" Well, I am a "come in hard and fast and both barrels blazing, tried by 13 rather than carried by 7" kind of guy. (or is it 12?) I actually also have a "trash pistol" that I would not mind having to be without if it was "lost" in the evidence room. It is in the medicine cabinet, behind the Excedrin bottle. I hope nobody has a reaaaaallly bad headache. If somebody is infringing on me or my families "personal space" I will shoot them not only with whatever closest weapon I can get my hands on...Ill spray them with the mace hanging by the door and hit them with the shovel in the garage. That would put me in trouble with the Asthmatic Association, and the Safe Handling of Tool Guild, too...Wouldnt it?
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 11:10:39 PM EDT
I have kids and will be moving out of cali to an AR friendly state. I have been looking for something for my AR. Here is what I have found http://www.southwestpublicsafety.com/progrifrac.html http://www.truckerslighthouse.com/products/police/detail/psgels2.htm I don't know the details of the electronic feature but I know its what I'm looking for. Easy to grab in the dark and can be mounted on a wall just above a night-stand
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 6:05:22 AM EDT
I have been contemplating the same thing, and have come to the conclusion that I prefer a shotgun for home defense. I don't want to be relieved of my AR's, and I am quite certain that a shotgun would be more than adequate to handle anything I might encounter. If someone kicks in the door wearing body armor, I'm a gonner anyhow. They would have planned enough to take me out before having any response time. Actually looked at a youth model 20ga mod 870 the other day. Thought it would be very good. Doesn't lend itself quite as easily to Lawyereese of an AR, small, compact, respectable firepower, cheap if the police require it, and in a real bad situation, I can use it to buy time to get the AR. After speaking to local law enforcement, they only confiscate the weapon involved in a shooting. (Of course, if someone decides to go postal, they loose all their toys).
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 6:06:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By stuporman: tried by 13 rather than carried by 7" kind of guy. (or is it 12?
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12 jurors, 6 pallbearers
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 9:30:27 AM EDT
Ive always been a one up kind of guy. Thanks for the correct headcount. 6/12...note to self
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 9:46:06 AM EDT
I keep mine under the bed, loaded, but with a trigger lock on. When I go to bed, I take the key out of its hiding place a put it on the nightstand next to me. When I get up in the morning, I put the key back in its hiding place.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 9:50:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2003 9:57:48 AM EDT by pulpsmack]
Originally Posted By stuporman: Anyways...I am in the same dilema. I dont want just anyone to lay their hands on my baby, and I have kids. I keep mine inside my long(ish) leather jacket hanging in the corner of my closet. (the sling looped around the tough heavy jacket hanger) You cant see it, and I can get to it quick. Unloaded, cuz of the kids...but I have a clip on the top shelf of the closet in the extra shoe bin, and one in the kitchen in the spice rack. Not likely to be stumbled upon in any case, but exactly where I will need it.
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My parents never had firearms in the house. I knew this for 2 reasons: 1. They didn't believe in them 2. as a little boy I went through every square inch of the house-- often. I wouldn't store your rifle in that way with kids. If they really don't know you have it, they will soon enough. Standing on a kitchen chair or step ladder was an easy enough way for me to see if they hid any Xmas presents etc up high in the closet. You would be better off with the weapon loaded in plain sight & the bedroom door security locked at all times than your current position (IMO). I suggest you either securely put the weapon away to where it is inaccessible to your children (and unfortunatly inaccessable to you in a pinch) or I would have it out and ready to go with the necessarry safety/security precautions (i.e. quick acess locks)
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 10:47:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2003 10:50:26 AM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 2:16:42 PM EDT
Home defense I have a Glock on the nightstand with a Streamlight M3, also have a Benelli Nova Special Purpose loaded with OO Buck.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 3:30:49 PM EDT
My ARs are within reach not loaded but have loaded mags in the case with them. I want something easier to handle in CQB, so i have a .44mag Ruger redhawk and .38spl loaded ready to go, and wifey has .38spl loaded ready to go on her side. [:D] but the surefire would prob. be the very first thing i would grab and that sits on top of nightstand.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 4:27:50 PM EDT
I used to keep a 12 gauge Mossberg 500 (18 in. barrel) leaning in the corner next to my bed loaded with #4 buckshot, chamber empty. I have no kids, and none would ever visit. When my brother's wife had kids (who visit often) I had to revise the plan... now I have a 9mm, clip in - chamber empty, loaded with factory hollow points placed on top of a high dresser (6 ft tall) underneath some clothes that never get moved. Why not an AR for home defense? I would hate to see the bad press I would get if I had to use it to defend myself or my wife. Also, I can definitely see a prosecutor portraying me as some sort of "Rambo wannabe blasting away with a machine gun". I've heard it's best to use factory ammo in a self defense gun for this very reason. Living in Wisconsin, one of a handful of states without a concealed carry law and a democrat governor that, as state attorney general tried to ban guns, failed, then tried to ban bullets (no shit!), I must say... Texas sounds GREAT! Scot
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 4:52:19 PM EDT
I use a mossy 500 with pistol grip and I have my 1911 that my wife can also use all my rainy day guns and gear are waway and locked up.And most people aside from close family or friends think all I have is the pistol..in short store your primary stuff and use a good shotgun pistol or something you wont mind losing for a while if you ever find yourself in a situation where you would have to use deadly force.And if it goes to court you wont be painted as some one ready to kill some one because of the type of weapon used.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 5:21:27 PM EDT
Personally my AR sits by the bed with a loaded mag and an empty chamber. If something goes bump in the night, I can chamber a round and be ready to go. There are no kids in my house and I have no idiot roommates either, so that is a consideration. If kids and strangers come over, I store it in its discreet case still with a loaded mag, and it stays in the front of the walkin closet. And no one goes in the bedroom, period. If there was a wild party going on, I would keep a primary and secondary pistol on me and the rest would be unloaded and under lock and key.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 5:38:03 PM EDT
I correct myself.... The loaded mag is in the spice cabinet in the kitchen. Closed, and behind spice bottles. The other loaded mag is behind a shoe in the shoe storage thingy above my head. The AR, without a clip is a hunk of steel my 3 year old cant identify. It is also inside a zipped leather jacket, and does not protrude from it in any way with a 7.5 inch barrel and DPMS stubby stock. I have a few years before my kids go poking around with chairs in my closet. By that time, I have to figure out something else. Hopefully my kids will be as respectful of guns as I was. On the safe side, quick access locking mechanisms seem to be my only choice.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 8:11:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By stuporman: I have a few years before my kids go poking around with chairs in my closet. By that time, I have to figure out something else. Hopefully my kids will be as respectful of guns as I was. On the safe side, quick access locking mechanisms seem to be my only choice.
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You might want to start now. I started showing my kids my guns at 1.5 years. I would tell them that they were mine and they could only touch when daddy was there. My son is 3 and when he sees even a toy gun with me not around he runs and tells me. I also carry a gun around the house which he is used to. He doesn't even give my guns a second look anymore. I have even let him pull the trigger on my .22 a few times in the woods. I can't wait till I can take him shooting at the range. I get a big smile when I see a father and son shooting together. Kinda makes me wish my father did that with me.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 9:33:49 PM EDT
I love my ARs. but I have a really hard time imagining a scenario where an AR would make more sense than a shotgun or pistol. In reality, how likely are you to encounter body armor or TEOTWAWKI ? The legal liability, even in rural/gun-friendly areas, probably outweighs the performance advantages of the AR for almost everyone. I keep my long guns unloaded and locked in a gun safe. For home defense, my wife and I each have pistols (my Glock M27 and her Kahr K9) secured in a Gun Vault Deluxe, along with a Surefire tac light. For us, this arrangement makes the most sense as we have two young boys (4 & 7), and thus we value (1) secure storage, (2) fast access and (3) ability to shoot one-handed (while "managing" the kids with the other hand). Just my 2 cents worth.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 10:52:29 PM EDT
Two Words "tacticle sling" scratch that I ment "come in".
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 11:23:05 PM EDT
I have a Glock 23, its enough since most break-ins are unarmed (criminals know they will get a tiny sentence if they are unarmed). In a home invasion i'd still rather the Glock over a shotgun because its s single round. Now, if i lived alone without roommated i'd use a shotgun. I've heard many taled of burgulars turning and running when hearing the owner rake a shotgun. Few sounds are more intimidating. The carbine is great (i have an M4A2 with EOTech holographic) but i dont see that a single person entering a home would require such firepower. Now, the flipside is that the Glock would buy me enough time to get the M4 out of the closet if i needed it...
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 11:42:17 PM EDT
You are all missing the point that the AR15 is the least likely to over penetrate your walls and kill your neighbors. Anyone who does not use an AR15 as a home defense weapon is being irresposible. IMO you should be prosecuted if you DONT use an AR15 as a home defense weapon.
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 4:27:47 AM EDT
Thanks DevL, could you give me instructions on how to torque a barrel on with a Surefire tactical light? [rolleyes] A Glock loaded with frangible ammo is not going to overpenetrate. Sorry pal, each person needs to take into account the characteristics of their domicile and choose accordingly.
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 4:49:49 AM EDT
i have one of those stack-on double door safes in my bedroom and at night i unlock it and leave the keys in the door. my car keys are on the same ring so if i want to leave the house i have to lock the safe back first. my AR its in the front of the safe and a loaded mag on the shelf above it.
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 4:53:21 AM EDT
I've lived in a place where a thrown butter knife would over-penetrate should you miss your target. Fortunetly, I'm in a much better place now, with actual brick! 00-Buck won't penetrate brick, will it? (no brick to test with) -FOTBR
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 5:07:45 AM EDT
Well it depends on which house I am at. At my Kali beach house - no AR for home defense. A pair of loaded P7s in Gunvaults (one on each floor). At the farm in Vermont, I have a lot more space and could well envision scenarios outside the house so need a gun that can handle some distance. I keep another pair of P7s in the Gunvaults and a Benelli M1 Tactical and an AR carbine in a wall mounted locking rack on the main floor. The longguns are stored with mags loaded, chamber empty, hammer down.
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 5:25:21 AM EDT
Ditto davidp14, I also have such safe three feet from my bed, also I keep my 1911 loaded and handy on my night stand. TG
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 5:41:59 AM EDT
Due to my family and some younger people in the house, my 870HD and #4 buck reside in a homemade rack just above and inside my bedroom closet door. Not your everyday hiding place, but awfully convenient and well concealed. The M4 resides on the 2nd level where a more accurate distance shot would be needed. TN law dictates "reasonable force" in order to defend yourself. They also have to be in your house. But alas, no fear, my golf clubs are registered.
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 5:51:07 AM EDT
I know this whole post kinda went off topic (how do you store your AR for quick deployment in a home defense sit) and there are a lot of people here just saying that they use other weapons as primaries. Well being that the trend is already set here... I use a KelTec Sub Rifle 2000 in 40S&W For my primary. 2 mag loaded at all times, and the rifle goes with me wherever I go. (It folds up and fits nicely into so many different hiding places). I don't lock it at home but I leave it folded (My 5 year old can't quite unfold it on his own, and he knows not to touch any guns without me... I also carry the only 2 mags I have for it on my person). I lock it in the car to prevent any intent to use missunderstandings with LE. My AR is in the closet in a closed but not locked case (with a trigger lock), and the loaded mags are on the top shelf in the SHTF bag. [img]http://home.rochester.rr.com/shaltacs/Private/closed.jpg [/img] [img]http://home.rochester.rr.com/shaltacs/Private/open.jpg [/img]
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 6:48:57 AM EDT
gun vault now makes a speedsafe for longarms. basically, the safe contains the center esction of the rifle and the butt stock and barrel stick out both ends. it still has a finger pad for entry and seems like a good idea. it can be bolted to teh floor/wall/closet and held secure. within seconds the rifle would be free. i have my speedsafe secured to a nightstand next to my bed. about 2 seconds and a 1911-A1 is in my hand. in the beginning of this thread......someone stated having an AR-15 condition 1, without a lock or in a safe.......ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN! PLEASE AT LEAST USE A TRIGGER LOCK! when i'm not home the carrier from my AR lives in my speedsafe....so if anyone ever got thier hands on my bushy....it's guts are missing...NO BOOM GONNA HAPPEN!
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 7:03:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M17sGuy: I know this whole post kinda went off topic
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KEVIN SMITH IS THAT YOU??? Hows "Jersey Girl" coming?
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 7:38:25 AM EDT
In my opinion, overpenetration is a real issue in home defense. My first choice is my Benelli M1. Its loaded with 4 rounds of steel shot in front of a couple 00 buck shot. Some slugs and more buck in the side saddle. the logic is that steel shot, as small as I could find, would be the least penetration of anything. Steel will loose energy faster than lead and small pellets too. That said, I am confident enough round of 12 guage in quick semi-auto will ruin the bad guys day. The AR is in the safe with hammer down on empty chamber, full mag. While the slide of a pump gun makes a good sound, racking the bolt carrier of the AR has a nice ring too. Glock 19, nightsights in the bed side table. My $.02
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 10:50:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HiramRanger: Thanks DevL, could you give me instructions on how to torque a barrel on with a Surefire tactical light? [rolleyes] A Glock loaded with frangible ammo is not going to overpenetrate. Sorry pal, each person needs to take into account the characteristics of their domicile and choose accordingly.
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While the frangible ammo won't over-penetrate, it might not penetrate enough to stop an attacker should you have to shoot through an arm or hand.Most attackers aren't going to give you a full frontal chest shot.If they're holding a bat or a firearm, most likely you are going to have to shoot through an arm.Home defense situations also usually bring you closer to the BG since you're confined to a hallway ot bedroom or livingroom and you may not get a chance to get another shot off.You'd probably be better off with a standard HP.
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 10:51:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By davidp14: i have one of those stack-on double door safes in my bedroom and at night i unlock it and leave the keys in the door. my car keys are on the same ring so if i want to leave the house i have to lock the safe back first. my AR its in the front of the safe and a loaded mag on the shelf above it.
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Great minds think alike :-) I have one of the Stack-Ons beside the bed. When I come in I take the keys out of my pocket, unlock the safe and put the 9mm on the nightstand. In the morning when I get ready to leave, the 9mm gets put back in the safe, it's locked, and the keys come out and into my pocket. I can't leave without locking the safe and I always know where my keys are.
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