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Posted: 8/14/2004 1:59:09 PM EST
A couple of weeks ago when I was at the range my AR suddenly stopped firing. To be more specific, the round was only getting a small dent on the primer without firing. I looked at the other 30 or 40 empty shell casings and there was a huge difference in the primers. So I took it home cleaned it thoroughly and took it out today. It fired 5-7 rds no problem from a trusted magazine and then the same thing happened once. I opened her up and nothing looked out of whack and inserted the mag and pulled back the charging handle to give it a shot and now the trigger wont even pull. It feels like when the safety is on BUT it's NOT. I tried repeatedly pulling the charging handle back and still nothing.

If this helps, it's a Bushmaster lower with a RRA upper 16" that I acquired from a local AR15 memember and I've fired probably 100-150 rds without a problem.

Please help me with your suggestions.
Thanks.
c
Link Posted: 8/14/2004 2:08:12 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/14/2004 2:12:04 PM EST
Same thing happened to me quite a while back. As I recall, it was a firing pin that was probably in spec, but fractionally too short. DPMS replaced it for free at a gun show, with one that was very slightly longer.
Link Posted: 8/14/2004 2:20:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By hardcase:
Same thing happened to me quite a while back. As I recall, it was a firing pin that was probably in spec, but fractionally too short. DPMS replaced it for free at a gun show, with one that was very slightly longer.


This might be a stupid question, but does the firing pin shorten in time due to usage?
Link Posted: 8/14/2004 2:27:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/14/2004 3:15:58 PM EST by M11293]

Originally Posted By azmotorsports:

Originally Posted By hardcase:
Same thing happened to me quite a while back. As I recall, it was a firing pin that was probably in spec, but fractionally too short. DPMS replaced it for free at a gun show, with one that was very slightly longer.


This might be a stupid question, but does the firing pin shorten in time due to usage?



It wears down. It has to, law of physics. Every part of your AR is going to wear down. I would guess the pin will shorten, not too much.
Link Posted: 8/14/2004 3:42:35 PM EST
First thing, with the rifle unloaded, pull back the charging handle, release it and pull the trigger. If nothing happens, pivot the upper open and see if the hammer is cocked. If not, it is following the carrier down. Possibly due to worn engagement surfaces on either the hammer, trigger or disconnector.

If the hammer is cocked, place something in front of it to protect the bolt catch then pull the trigger. If nothing happens, and the trigger won't move, disassemble the fire control parts and inspect them. Also looking for something loose underneath them, blocking the trigger movement. Possibly a spent primer or other small piece of junk.


In either case, you would still have light strikes on the primer, as the inertia from the firing pin alone will slightly dent a primer.

Good Luck



Lonny
Link Posted: 8/14/2004 4:57:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By xcpd69:
First thing, with the rifle unloaded, pull back the charging handle, release it and pull the trigger. If nothing happens, pivot the upper open and see if the hammer is cocked. If not, it is following the carrier down. Possibly due to worn engagement surfaces on either the hammer, trigger or disconnector.

If the hammer is cocked, place something in front of it to protect the bolt catch then pull the trigger. If nothing happens, and the trigger won't move, disassemble the fire control parts and inspect them. Also looking for something loose underneath them, blocking the trigger movement. Possibly a spent primer or other small piece of junk.


In either case, you would still have light strikes on the primer, as the inertia from the firing pin alone will slightly dent a primer.

Good Luck



Lonny



Ok, I did what you said and found a spent primer in there. I removed it and still nothing. The hammer is cocked but when I pull the trigger it won't budge. If I nudge the hammer a little bit I can THEN pull the trigger. What could be preventing the hammer to be released?
cp
Link Posted: 8/14/2004 5:00:02 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/14/2004 5:07:50 PM EST

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Make sure you dont have a spent primer or some similar piece of crap floating around in your lower reciever.



I agree with HM, check the lower, I had the same problem and I decided to take her apart and the buffer retaner spring was all discombobulated in the trigger.


Joe
Link Posted: 8/14/2004 5:21:05 PM EST
You guys were right I found another spent primer. Would this also be the reason for the small dents in the unspent rds.
Thanks again.
cp
Link Posted: 8/14/2004 5:43:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/14/2004 5:49:08 PM EST
Now that you've solved the problems at hand with your rifle, its time to talk about ammo. With not one but TWO loose primers floating around in there, you may need to look at switching ammo. I'm no ammo expert, but quality mil-spec ammo will have a primer that is locked in good, crimped in to be exact I think. This is to prevent what you are going through when it really matters.

So just out of curiosity, what ammo are you using? Are you using reloads?

Tex78
Link Posted: 8/14/2004 6:10:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/14/2004 6:11:16 PM EST by markmcjunkins]
Sounds like your rifle has excessive headspace. Mil spec ammo will hide this problem because of the cases stronger construction.



mark
Link Posted: 8/14/2004 6:22:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/14/2004 6:22:20 PM EST by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 8/14/2004 7:23:42 PM EST
I mixed up my normal stuff with some old old stuff I bought at the gun shop. I can't remember the manuf. but I remember as soon as I bought it I went out shooting and my problems began. I also used American Ammo too, but I think it was from the old stuff. I normally shoot Winchester white box and hardly ever shoot Wolf but I remember when I did shoot wolf and WWB I had no issues at all.
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 6:23:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/15/2004 6:28:29 PM EST by AZ-K9]
Whoa. Never had any problems like that azmotorsports.

The lower I bought from local dealer here as an assembled unit, so it should have Bushie parts in it. The upper assembly is using a Colt (as far as I can tell, says C MP on it) bolt with an RRA carrier and reciever.

When I first got the upper, I had a few FTE's which was a result of brass shavings working their way into the ejector housing. The dealer I bought it from (from here BTW) replaced the bolt and that solved the FTE's. This was a long time ago and probably doesn't have any cause in this, but just in case.

If you can't get it to work, let me know.
Link Posted: 8/15/2004 6:50:32 PM EST
I had a simalar problem with a a1 rifle I had built using used gun show parts, after I had fired several hundred rds. through it, it started popping two or so primers out of every mag. so I replaced the firing pin still no fix so I took it a friend who has alot of expirience with ars, he measured the fireing pin hole in the bolt and it was way out of spec. and was allowing the primers to flow back around the pin and rupture, he filled the hole with some alloy redrilled the hole to spec. and I never had another pireced primer, another fix would've been to get a new bolt but I'd like I said it was a cheap throw together.

Originally Posted By hardcase:
Same thing happened to me quite a while back. As I recall, it was a firing pin that was probably in spec, but fractionally too short. DPMS replaced it for free at a gun show, with one that was very slightly longer.

Link Posted: 8/15/2004 8:12:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
Whoa. Never had any problems like that azmotorsports.

The lower I bought from local dealer here as an assembled unit, so it should have Bushie parts in it. The upper assembly is using a Colt (as far as I can tell, says C MP on it) bolt with an RRA carrier and reciever.

When I first got the upper, I had a few FTE's which was a result of brass shavings working their way into the ejector housing. The dealer I bought it from (from here BTW) replaced the bolt and that solved the FTE's. This was a long time ago and probably doesn't have any cause in this, but just in case.

If you can't get it to work, let me know.



Thanks AZ-K9 I'll take it out this week to the range and see if it works. I really think it was a case of old bad ammo and the primer stuck under the safety assembly. Thanks for all of your help guys.
cp
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:14:46 PM EST
Just got back from the range and guess what... the same problem persisted after about 50rds. I didn't get a chance to look inside yet, but will tonight.

Here's what happened.

After the fourth mag, I put a new one in and released the bolt.
At that point I tried to squeeze the trigger and it felt like the safety was on.
I tried to switch it to safety but that didn't move either.
So I removed the mag and emptied the chamber.
Pulled the charging handle back, tried to dry fire it and the trigger wouldn't budge.
Wiggled the stuck safety switch back and fourth about 1/4 of the regular normal movement which finally moved all the way and I was able to dry fire.
Tried it again and the trigger wouldn't budge again.
Back to the beginning.


Please help, I would hate to pay the hefty price tag at the gunsmith for something simple I can fix.
Thanks.
cp
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:39:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 1:04:19 PM EST
I should of checked the spent brass. Dang it!!!
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:01:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:13:05 PM EST
i have walmart 223 55gr... 40round boxes for $7.50 the best deal around here for good ammo... its about the same price as xm193 but its local and by the box full... not by the case
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 5:16:50 PM EST


Originally Posted by HeavyMetal:
Check the spent brass and tell us the headstamp.



Yes yes yes yes yes

Enquiring minds want to know!
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 11:11:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 11:12:25 PM EST by azmotorsports]

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Check the spent brass and tell us the headstamp.



It was American Ammunition (red & blue box of 50). The gun shop said it was made in Isreal or something. I found another primer waaayyy under the trigger group. It was a pain getting it out, but it seems to be working now. I'll take her out Monday to find out.

Has anyone else had this happen with ammo?
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 11:38:14 PM EST

Originally Posted By azmotorsports:

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Check the spent brass and tell us the headstamp.



It was American Ammunition (red & blue box of 50). The gun shop said it was made in Isreal or something. I found another primer waaayyy under the trigger group. It was a pain getting it out, but it seems to be working now. I'll take her out Monday to find out.

Has anyone else had this happen with ammo?


That ammo has a worse ( and most deserved) rep than Wolf .
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 12:39:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 8:36:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 11:50:00 AM EST
Ho do you guys like the Winchester white box stuff?
cp
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 4:43:01 PM EST
Ive shot a couple of hundred Whinny white box and have had NO problems. I normally shoot Q3131A whinchester . Been about $160 for a 1000 rd. case. Good luck WarDawg
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 5:05:46 PM EST
I had a primer in the fire control group situation once, Talon M196 Tracer ammo from ammoman. First and Only malfuntion I've ever expierienced. Ammo looked antique straight out of the box, prolly 'nam surplus. Only bought them tracers for fun anyway...and they were.
Link Posted: 8/26/2004 8:27:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/26/2004 8:28:17 PM EST by AZG23]
AZmotorsports(insert your name here) :).....what part of the valley are you..??

Brad

Link Posted: 8/26/2004 11:40:26 PM EST
make sure you dont have a reduced weight hammer spring. My AR sometimes fail to fire military primers.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 12:22:08 AM EST

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Make sure you dont have ANOTHER spent primer still in there.



Epic,

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 4:50:25 AM EST
Jeezus, throw that sh*t ammo away. You're going to ruin your gun.

KAC
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 7:39:38 AM EST
I shot some 'Olympic' ammo I got from J&G, and it did the same thing. Good ammo should fix you right up.

~Doug
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 8:48:15 AM EST
150 rds at the range with winchester white box and NO problems at all. Thanks guys.
cp
Link Posted: 9/3/2004 9:02:41 AM EST
I've ONLY used the Winchester White box Q3131A ammo in my AR's and have NEVER popped a primer. I got mine for about the same price of $167/1000 round case at a local gunshow.
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