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Posted: 2/24/2005 3:21:46 PM EST
Is it possible to check an AR15? If so, what kind of case/lock do you need? Also, are you allowed to pack ammunition in with it? The guy at the gun store told me this was doable, but when I called to confirm with America West they kept me on hold for 20 minutes. Typical. Anyways, I appreciate the info. Thanks.
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 3:27:43 PM EST
sure; but tsasses might give you some hassel, just casue they suck

must be locked in an airline approved, lockable gun case--and tsa might tear the lock on random inspections (or so i have heard)

ammo must be packed seperate i believe
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 3:38:11 PM EST
Just went hunting in Michigan, took my AR10 along on the plane ride. You have to have an airline approved case (I used a Starlight), but Pelican and some of the other LOCKABLE aluminum cases are OK. For specifics, check out the airlines' website for regulations, they're all there.

As an aside, when you get in line to have the weapon checked, you have to "declare a firearm" which tends to get them moving to the nearest TSA nazi. He'll come over, ask you to open the case and sometimes will ask to have you remove the weapon to be sure its unloaded. This tends to raise a shitload of eyebrows in the airport, and people will look at you like you've got horns. Imagine raising a ghillie-wrapped AR10 with bipod and 50mm obj. scope into the air, racking the bolt back and handing it to the TSA dude to check. What an experience...I'll never forget the look on his face when I opened the case. It was precious. My wife, however, was less than impressed.

The TSA dude ore dudette will place an orange tag in the case saying the firearm is unloaded, you close the case and lock it, and you're the only one who should have posession of the key from that point on. Keep the paperwork you'll get from the agent, you'll sometimes need it to claim the weapon.

I loaded some mags and put them in the case down the bottom, not hidden, but not exactly out in the open either. TSA didn't seem to care about that, just wanted the weapon unloaded.

That's about it. The Starlight cases are the only way to go, in my opinion. They're the best for this very purpose.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 3:40:54 PM EST
Here is the deal with MOST domestic carries.

They will allow you to carry no more than 40 rounds of ammo and it MUST be in a factory box.
Ammo can be locked in the case with the rifle as long as it is in its factory box.
The rifle case must be locked and must be able to unlock it for inspection.


-No worries!
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 3:46:13 PM EST
I see some misinformation here, the case does not haev to be aluminum simply hard sided which can be plastic, and I have never seen a round limit on any airline but there is a poundage limit that varies per flight.
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 3:51:00 PM EST
didn't say it HAD to be aluminum. Just HAD to be LOCKABLE.

Apologize for the misconception.

Link Posted: 2/24/2005 4:19:00 PM EST
As a airline employee, traveling with a gun is a snap.

A lockable case is needed.
declare the gun with the ticket counter agent.
take the gun to the TSA counter for inspection.
wait for the all clear from the TSA
proceed to your gate.

SNAP!

Ammo: you are allowed 11lbs of ammo in the original case in your check baggage. you MUST declair the ammo with the ticket counter agent.

SNAP!

enjoy your flight, <ahem>
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 4:22:31 PM EST
Went from Newark to Vegas with 2 AR's and a spare lower. Not much drama other than TSA decided to check all of my bags as evidenced by the courtesy tag left in my luggage. The counter agent only wanted to know that it was unbloaded and there was no ammunition in the case. TSA took the case behind a screen to inspect, no comment - they all just stood around the case gawking.

Leaving Vegas the TSA guy just looked at it on x-ray, said "AR-15 - the original varmint rifle!", and sent me on my way.

My aluminum case from Dicks got mangled by the airline - bent, smashed, and one lock is shot. Replacing with a Pelican.
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 4:26:55 PM EST
Here's a link to Delta's page.

http://www.delta.com/travel/plan/baggage_info/special_baggage/dangerous_goods/index.jsp

Now when your plane lands does your rifle or pistol case get sent down the conveyor belt with everyone else's luggage?

What type of insurance is offered if any? I remember Delta saying they only covered 200 dollars worth of lost stuff. Now if your gun is worth 1k-1500 bucks it's not worth it.

You can also ship your rifle through USPS to yourself in another state OR in care of another person. If you send it C/O another person they are not "supposed" to open it. When we moved I sent all my rifles USPS with insurance.
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 4:30:06 PM EST
I need some of that information.
I want a pelican, but the guy I am going with suggested an aluminum. I don't want the aluminum as they get the shit beat out of them. Aluminum cases sure don't take the abuse that a Pelican will, but I bet they are harder to break into.
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 4:36:54 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 4:45:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By JMHorse:
Here's a link to Delta's page.

http://www.delta.com/travel/plan/baggage_info/special_baggage/dangerous_goods/index.jsp

Now when your plane lands does your rifle or pistol case get sent down the conveyor belt with everyone else's luggage?



It all depends. I've flown a few times with my pistol in a locked case inside my regular luggage. It was declared per the above procedures. Then it gets treated just like regular luggage.

With a large rifle case, I have had them put them on the conveyor with the rest of the luggage, and I have also had them put them off to the side, and check claim tickets when you get them. I guess it all depends on which airport you are arriving at.

Link Posted: 2/24/2005 4:57:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/24/2005 4:57:43 PM EST by CB1]
yea, down the belt into the hands of the luggage apes.
I have flown DFW to Newark and back so many times that it is old hat for me.
Hard side plastic case is the way to go. I use the Plano Promax gun case.
two gun case, lockable, tough enough for the apes....
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 5:02:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
sure; but tsasses might give you some hassel, just casue they suck

must be locked in an airline approved, lockable gun case--and tsa might tear the lock on random inspections (or so i have heard)

ammo must be packed seperate i believe



ACE and HOME Depot sell TSA approved locks, which they have the key to. They don't cut these locks. Your firearm must have a unique lock that you have the key to, by TSA Regs. Only you unlock it. They are not supposed to cut it. ACE sells a lock that has a green/red flag to tell if they opened your bag.
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 5:13:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/24/2005 5:14:41 PM EST by twonami]
Cabelas "bulletproof" cases are nice, not bad at all for $160
Our TC Encore/AR-15 Rifle Case provides even more protection for your valuable firearm. The new 45° heli-arc welded corners protect this vulnerable area from dents and dings. Just like the originals, these are constructed of virtually indestructible .063" marine-grade aluminum for maximum strength. Heavy-duty closed-end rivets attach hinges, latches, handles and rigid internal dividers without letting in dust or moisture. They have top-quality, full-length piano hinges, along with plated steel latches and handle, and a stainless steel locking rod system. A weather seal keeps out moisture, and dense, thick urethane foam cradles and protects your firearms and gear. Meets airline requirements.
Size: 44" x 14" x 4-1/2".


Link Posted: 2/24/2005 7:30:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/24/2005 7:31:09 PM EST by WhiteCoyote]
Must be a lockable gun case, lock the gun with a trigger lock. Make sure you declare it when you check in (common sense). Do not lock the case with standard locks or TSA will cut them off (check with your carrier). Use only approved TSA locks. These are combination locks that can be opened with a special key that the TSA has.
Good luck.
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 7:38:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/24/2005 7:44:27 PM EST by CJan_NH]
For what it's worth Southwest Airlines is the cats meow for transporting firearms. As stated above you need a solid, locked case-and the max amount of ammo they allow is 11lbs. Southwest is extremely friendly and hassle-free about firearms, just as long as you follow the rules.

Depending on the hub you're flying into you can request that your rifle case be delivered straight to the customer service counter once you land. The first time I flew with ARs my heart was in my throat while waiting for the case to appear on the baggage carousel. I had visions of some dirtbag walking off with $5000 worth of rifles. Like all luggage, make sure your name and contact info is on the case.


Originally Posted By Troy:
You don't want an aluminum case. Yes, the gun goes on the same conveyer system, and is thrown around by the same luggage monkeys. Pelican or (better!) Starlights are what you want.

-Troy


+1 for Starlight. The plastic handle on my old Pelican case wasn't baggage handler proof. I stopped using Pelican after a Southwest baggage handler broke the handle right off. I picked up my case with the handle duct taped to the side Starlight uses spring steel handles, and they are available with wheels-which is a Godsend for an airport.
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 8:11:58 PM EST
I've flown my ar. United makes you pick it up at the baggage office, no big deal. People look at you funny while you show unloaded at the ticket counter but nobody really cares otherwise.
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 8:36:31 PM EST
unloaded
lockable case
20lbs ammo max
if magazines are loaded they have to be secured and not loose or in weapon
have to declare it
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 9:09:55 PM EST
My buddy comes out hunting every year. He packs a pistol in a cooler equipped with a latch and padlock.
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 9:35:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/24/2005 9:36:41 PM EST by Gloftoe]
Where the hell do you people get the idea that the TSA will cut your rifle case locks? Requirements are to LOCK the case with a keyed or combo'd lock, with ONLY YOU having the key and access to the case. YOU sign the declaration form and put it inside, YOU take it to the TSA x-ray machine, they x-ray it, give you a wave, and that's the end of it. You pick it up at your destination.

Do NOT put "TSA Removable" locks on your gun cases! You may as well leave them unlocked if you're gonna do that.

I travel with my CCW piece a lot of the times. I put it in a Kalispel pistol case, along with the mags and ammunition (sometimes I pack my wife's pistol and mags in there too). It's locked with two keyed-alike Master Locks. The key stays with me. If the TSA needs to inspect the contents by opening the case:

# The passenger must provide the key or combination to the screener if it is necessary to open the container, and then remain present during screening to take back possession of the key after the container is cleared.

(from the TSA's website).

Link Posted: 2/24/2005 9:40:04 PM EST
Magazines are not legit packaging for ammo per federal law. Packaging must be 'designed to carry ammo'. Lot's of people get away with it, but they may tell you no. Airline requirements and federal requirements are not the same. Check with the airline before you go to the airport.

From the TSA web page:
# All firearms must be declared to the air carrier during the ticket counter check-in process.
# The firearm must be unloaded.
# The firearm must be carried in a hard-sided container.
# The container must be locked.
# The passenger must provide the key or combination to the screener if it is necessary to open the container, and then remain present during screening to take back possession of the key after the container is cleared.
# Any ammunition transported must be securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. A magazine is not considered to be packaging for ammunition.
# Black powder and percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms are not permitted in carry-on or checked baggage.
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 9:46:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/24/2005 9:47:26 PM EST by 53vortec]
Here's the low down from the TSA Website on Transporting Firearms and Ammunition

Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts may only be transported in checked baggage. Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts are prohibited from carry-on baggage.

* Following is a summary of key regulatory requirements to transport firearms, firearm parts or ammunition in checked baggage:
* All firearms must be declared to the air carrier during the ticket counter check-in process.
* The firearm must be unloaded.
* The firearm must be carried in a hard-sided container.
* The container must be locked.
* The passenger must provide the key or combination to the screener if it is necessary to open the container, and then remain present during screening to take back possession of the key after the container is cleared.
* Any ammunition transported must be securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. A magazine is not considered to be packaging for ammunition.
* Black powder and percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms are not permitted in carry-on or checked baggage.


A few other points:
*Let me re-iterate that magazines are NOT suitable for transporting ammunition.
*A TSA sceener should never handle a weapon. There are special circumstances, but that isn't SOP. If you see a screener handling/clearing your weapon, ask to see a supervisor.
*If a screener screws up, is rude, handles your weapon improperly ASK TO SEE HIS SUPERVISOR. If the supervisor is a dolt, ask to see a Screening Manager as well.

People fly with guns all the time, and most TSA professionals are used to it and things go smoothly. But if you run into a junior G-man with a case of the ass, RUIN HIS DAY! Passenger complaints are the ONLY way to get these idiots out of our lives and make things smoother for everybody.

America West shouldn't be a problem, I've dealt with them alot regarding this stuff. Just be sure you let the ticket agent know that you're checking a firearm when you get to the counter.

Odds are if you follow the FAA/TSA regs, you'll be fine and won't get any hassle. Have a great trip!

ETA:DANG! I type too slow
Link Posted: 2/24/2005 9:47:23 PM EST

Originally Posted By eodinert:
Magazines are not legit packaging for ammo per federal law. Packaging must be 'designed to carry ammo'. Lot's of people get away with it, but they may tell you no. Airline requirements and federal requirements are not the same. Check with the airline before you go to the airport.

From the TSA web page:
# All firearms must be declared to the air carrier during the ticket counter check-in process.
# The firearm must be unloaded.
# The firearm must be carried in a hard-sided container.
# The container must be locked.
# The passenger must provide the key or combination to the screener if it is necessary to open the container, and then remain present during screening to take back possession of the key after the container is cleared.
# Any ammunition transported must be securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. A magazine is not considered to be packaging for ammunition.
# Black powder and percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms are not permitted in carry-on or checked baggage.



Does the ammunition have to be locked too? Will any cardboard box do? Such as the WWB package?
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 3:49:08 AM EST
Looks like you have this pretty much covered, but just another +1 to what has already been said. I transported an AR home with me from the in-laws in a lockable plastic ~$20 plastic case. No problems, though you do tend to get stared at a bit. It comes down the same chute as the rest of the luggage so needless to say I was standing directly in front of said chute waiting for it to roll on down.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 4:07:19 AM EST
i have flown Delta several times with guns, 1911s, Glocks, and ARs.

Each time I have been treated like a king by the Delta people and the TSA people. THis was at El Paso, Tx, Lubbock, TX, Orlando, FL, and Atlanta, GA.


I have found that if you are carrying a well set-up Pelican with carbine, mags, etc..., and are dressed well, for some reason they tend to treat you even better. You will get thru faster, with less hassle. If they think I am something I am not, that is their problem. I never give them any details as to why I am traveling, or what the firearms are for, my occupation, etc....



Also, on a Sunday morning we arrived at 5:30am for a 7:30 am flight out of Orlando. If we had remained in line, we would not have made the flight, it was so long. Delta had admin people there trying to help out. I simply, and quietly said "I need to check firearms." I was taken from the back of the line, to the head of the line. They carried all of our bags for us, checked them, then carried all of our bags over to the TSA people for us. The TSA people took our bags ahead of the mountain of baggage they needed to scan and processed it right then, with us watching. Exceptionally polite, friendly, and professional the whole way.

YMMV
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 4:34:53 AM EST
Anyone ever do this at a NY airport?
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 4:55:18 AM EST
I've flown with my guns several times. For my pistols, I just bring the Cannon quick access safe and put it in my luggage. For the long guns, I have a hard-shell plastic, airline approved golf club case ($69 at WallyWorld) that I put a padlock on. Just make sure the people at TSA put the bright orange "STEAL THIS FIREARM" tag on the INSIDE of the case and not attached to the outside.

I've had to clear my guns several times in front of the lines of sheeple...makes you stand out like a turd in the punchbowl! (met a lot of cool folks that way though...not everyone in line is a raging anti)
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:15:32 AM EST
I always carry guns in a Starlight case. I've flown with ARs & pistols. The amount of shit you get is all dependent on the people you have to deal with. In Albuquerque, all I get is "That's an awesome rifle!". In Cleveland, I've been held up for 1/2 hour by some queer airline employee and a gun-ignorant cop with a burr up his ass.

BTW, when you declare your firearm at check-in, the most entertaining way to do it is scream "I'VE GOT A GUN!" at the ticket counter.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 6:16:02 AM EST


Yeah I'll be sure and remember that one. Are the Wally World cases any good? I've got a piece of crap Kolpin case, but it's got crazy ducks and crap all over it. I'm not exactly thrilled about spending 180 bucks on a case though.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 7:46:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By steve-oh:
Are the Wally World cases any good? I've got a piece of crap Kolpin case, but it's got crazy ducks and crap all over it. I'm not exactly thrilled about spending 180 bucks on a case though.



No personal experience with those, but the measure of a good case is whether or not it will protect your firearm. I say that because when I flew out to BulletFest last year, Southwest managed to seriously damage my Starlight carbine case. (Two latches busted off, and the case was subjected to so much shock that a plastic ammo box inside the case and surrounded by foam was shattered.) The rifle and optics were fine, though, so I would say the Starlight case did its job. I'm sure there are some cheaper cases that would have protected the gun, but I don't know where that line is.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 7:52:13 AM EST
Check the EE forum for Starlight cases, I believe someone over there has one or two left to sell for short money, that's how I got mine. As I stated earlier, it's definitely the way to go.

Check over on gunsamerica.com. That's one helluva bulletin board for ANYTHING firearms related. Don't know if there's any Starlight cases over there, but I bet there is.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 3:51:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By BigB1129:
Anyone ever do this at a NY airport?


Not New York, But I fly to Newark all the time with my ARs (post ban, of course) with no issues from teh Agents/TSA
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:39:26 PM EST
Last time I flew with my AR I forgot to use a trigger lock/bolt hold open - anything that would say, "This gun is unloaded," to the screeners. Sure enough, I hear my name called over the PA system just as I'm standing in front of the counter at my gate.

I ask the gal if I can use one of their phones to answer the page, and it turns out the TSA folks down in the baggage area want to look at my rifle, which means they neeed me to give them my key and the combination to the locks (I have a complicated case ). There was no destroying my case: they got in touch with me, waited for me to be escorted to the baggage area below the terminal - which thankfully was directly below the gate - and checked the rifle after I gave them the key and combinations. Everyone was extremely polite the entire time, too.

If I'd had a trigger lock on the rifle, I could have avoided the whole thing.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:47:30 PM EST
Any guesses on how long before .gov and the airlines decide it's not acceptable to check firearms? I say within the next 5 years it'll be done away with. Just a guess.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 5:48:11 PM EST
Any guesses on how long before .gov and the airlines decide it's not acceptable to check firearms? I say within the next 5 years it'll be done away with. Just a guess.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 6:02:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By rcoers:
Any guesses on how long before .gov and the airlines decide it's not acceptable to check firearms? I say within the next 5 years it'll be done away with. Just a guess.


Then just drive (I try to do this already).
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 10:47:53 PM EST
The best thing to do is to contact the airline you are flying and get the direct scoops. It is also a good idea to go to your airline's web site and print out a copy of their regs so that you can show the ticket agent what to do. Remember to smile a lot and be VERY polite.
Link Posted: 2/25/2005 11:09:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/25/2005 11:10:28 PM EST by resq944]
Just a little pre 9/11 story,

was flying back from college in 95', since I was a poor student I couldn't afford a pelican for my "prized" norinco SKS, so I went to the Army Navy store and bout a 155 MM Howitzer Ammo Storage tube. Put the rifle in the tube locked it and put it in my checked luggage, declared it ti the ticket guy, and that was it.... I dont think I would do that now-a days.

EDIT: Yea 500
Link Posted: 2/26/2005 12:05:02 AM EST
I took my SIG pistol from Ohio to Florida and back, way back in the 90's. At that time, the airline agent did the check-in, and he didn't know what he had to do. Since I had done my homework, I was able to walk him through the process. Later at the gate, another passenger asked me if I was a cop. Nope!

I'd suggest knowing the TSA requirements AND your airline's requirements backwards and forwards, and printing out a copy of the TSA's requirements AND your airline's requirements. That way, if there is a disagreement, you have a handy reference to back yourself up.

In a nutshell,
- Know the rules
- Follow the guidelines for packing
- Have a professional attitude
Link Posted: 2/26/2005 2:34:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/26/2005 2:34:40 AM EST by exilefromhell]
My pelican 1750 has proven too big for the conveyer belt. Every time it is hand carried into the terminal by baggage personnel. Don't leave your eyes solely on the conveyer belt or you might miss the guy hand carrying your case in, leaving it unattended by the baggage claim office, or ticket counter. My case was also too big to go through the X-ray machine. They said the machine comes back with an error because the case is too long. Same thing happens with golf clubs they said. Commence hand search of case... but at no time did they touch my firearm.
Link Posted: 2/26/2005 12:47:42 PM EST
Last time i flew out of FTL with my 10fp-leax and my m4gery, the screener incidentally asked if i was military, i replied "Yes". He asked to see my ID, I showed it to him, and he gave me the good to go !? No check of the foam lining, no inspection of the chamber, just close it up sir. Anybody ever have anything like this happen before? I fly with firearms two or three times a year and I don't think the procedure has been the same once...every time they inspect a different way or have me sign things in a different order, and the Ticket agents are sometimes completely oblivious as to the regulations regarding how you can carry ammo. Anybody else experience these security lapses?
Link Posted: 2/26/2005 12:50:32 PM EST
BigB1129: I've flown out of Albany several times with firearms and have never had a problem, usually end up with a compliment from the screener. I don't know how it would be out of La Guardia or JFK with the 24-hour rule in NYC for long rifles. but I wouldn't expect any problems.
Link Posted: 2/26/2005 8:17:47 PM EST
If you want to see lots of people get paranoid. You should see them when I'm flowing with my McBros 50 and the TSAs make me pull it all the way out of the Case at the ticket counter.
Link Posted: 2/27/2005 12:45:26 PM EST
Alright, what's the "proper" way to carry ammo? Can it be loose inside a WWB package?
Link Posted: 2/27/2005 1:16:39 PM EST
From AA.com

Firearms and Ammunition may not be carried by a passenger on an aircraft. However, unloaded firearms may be transported in checked baggage if declared to the agent at check in and packed in a crush-proof container manufactured specifically for the firearm or a hard-sided suitcase. Firearms must be in a locked container. Properly packaged small arms ammunition for personal use may be transported in checked luggage.


Extracts from International Air Transport Association (IATA) advice to passengers on the carriage of items falling within the scope of the Association's Dangerous Goods Regulations.

Ammunition
"With approval from the airline operator, you are permitted to take securely boxed ammunition in your checked baggage. The ammunition must fall into the dangerous goods classification 1.4S. You are limited to 5 kg for your own use. Allowances for more than one passenger cannot be combined into one or more packages."

Unless your going to the mountains... why not just buy the ammo at your destination and save yourself from worrying?
Link Posted: 3/6/2005 10:23:10 AM EST
I think we've all had a little bit different experiences on each airline and each flight, but if you fly friendly SWA, you should know that they DO allow ammo to be transported in magazines, I do all the time only because it's loaded that way now and I don't feel like unloading the mags and putting them in approved boxes only to load them back again. Certainly you want to always know the rules and provide the minimal amount of hassle to make everything go smoothly, but per SWA rules, you are allowed: http://southwest.com/travel_center/guns.html
Link Posted: 3/6/2005 11:08:13 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/6/2005 11:15:08 AM EST by sjauch]
This is a recent email I received.
===================================================

Subject: TSA FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION ADVISORY


Attached (and copied below) is an advisory concerning the requirements for transporting firearms, firearms parts and ammunition on commercial aircraft. We request that you distribute this advisory to you member clubs statewide. Failure to understand the rules concerning the transportation of firearms and ammunition results in many sportsmen being unnecessarily detained when traveling, and it exposes them to potential civil penalties of up to $10,000. This also results in our personnel spending a disproportionate amount of time dealing with otherwise law abiding sportsmen who simply do not know the requirements. This is time our staff could spend being alert for more serious violations. Your cooperation would be greatly appreciated.



Daniel OXXXXXXX

Assistant Federal Security Director for Law Enforcement

Transportation Security Administration





Office of Security
U.S. Department of Homeland Security
Arlington, Virginia 22202







Advisory







January 28, 2005

Reminder to Travelers of Requirements for Transporting Firearms,
Firearm Parts and Ammunition on Commercial Aircraft


I. Passengers are prohibited from carrying firearms, firearm parts and ammunition


Federal regulations administered by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) prohibit the carriage of firearms and guns, as well as parts of firearms and guns (such as magazines or clips, bolts, firing pins, and other components), in the traveler’s possession or in carry-on luggage on commercial aircraft.



Ammunition also is NOT allowed as a carry-on item. Carrying even a single round of ammunition through airport security checkpoints is a violation of regulations.


There are certain limited exceptions for law enforcement officers (LEOs) who are authorized to fly armed by meeting the requirements of 49 CFR § 1544.219.


TSA regulations are strictly enforced. Violations can result in criminal prosecution and imposition of civil penalties of up to $10,000 per violation. In the case of violations by government employees, TSA may also forward the matter to the employee’s agency. In the case of violations by military personnel related to the performance of military duties, TSA will forward an Enforcement Investigative Report to the service member’s command for appropriate action.


II. Checked-baggage requirements for transporting firearms and ammunition


All persons carrying firearms and ammunition in checked baggage, including LEOs, must comply with the provisions of 49 CFR § 1540.111. Following is a summary of key requirements of this section and other regulatory provisions.


· All firearms must be declared to the air carrier during the ticket counter check-in process. Travelers with firearms should check-in at the ticket counter and not use electronic check-in (e.g., kiosks or the Internet). Electronic check-in will not provide adequate compliance with the requirement to declare firearms to the air carrier and will expose the traveler to greater potential for violation and resulting civil or criminal enforcement action.


· All declared firearms must be unloaded and transported in a locked hard-sided container. While some firearm “parts” are not within the broad definition of the term “firearm,” travelers are advised to place all firearm parts in a locked hard-sided container to avoid violations.


· Access to the declared firearm must be restricted, with only the passenger possessing the container combination or key to the lock. During the screening process, TSA may notify the passenger that the hard-sided container must be opened for inspection. In this event, it is preferred that the passenger turn over the key or combination to the screener. If the combination is sensitive, the passenger may unlock the lock, but TSA personnel must open the container.


· Any ammunition transported must be placed in checked baggage and securely packed in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition. Firearm magazines/clips do not satisfy the packaging requirement unless they provide a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).


· The ammunition may also be located in the same hard-sided case as the firearm as long as it is properly packed as described above.


· It is also recommended that the ammunition package in checked baggage be stabilized, either by taping it to the interior wall of the bag, or by use of packing material or other means to ensure the ammunition package does not move about the interior of the bag during transportation.


· Black powder, including Pyrodex, and percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms are not permitted on board aircraft, either as accessible property or in checked baggage.


Air carriers may have their own additional requirements on the carriage of firearms and the amount of ammunition an individual may place in checked baggage. Therefore, travelers should also contact the air carrier regarding its firearm and ammunition carriage policies.


Additional information about the carriage of firearms, firearm parts and ammunition, as well as other air travel tips, can be found at www.tsa.gov or by contacting the TSA Contact Center toll- free at 1-866-289-9673 or by email at TSA-ContactCenter@dhs.gov.




Pittsburgh, Pa

dan.XXXXXXX@dhs.gov

412-472-XXXX
Link Posted: 3/6/2005 12:17:27 PM EST

Originally Posted By CB1:
As a airline employee, traveling with a gun is a snap.

A lockable case is needed.
declare the gun with the ticket counter agent.
take the gun to the TSA counter for inspection.
wait for the all clear from the TSA
proceed to your gate.

SNAP!

Ammo: you are allowed 11lbs of ammo in the original case in your check baggage. you MUST declair the ammo with the ticket counter agent.

SNAP!

enjoy your flight, <ahem>



That's the drill. When I flew to my dad's in Texas for pheasant hunting, I used an www.icc-case.com case- great product and super support. When he passed away, I retreived an old LC Smith in a POS plastic case- only positive feature was that it LOCKED. This was not long after 9/11 when they still had troops in the airports (no mags in their AR's). Didn't have any problems then, so it should be smoother now. Just don't pack a nail file. And watch that ammo weight. My dumass younger bro dropped $75.00 in excess baggage fees bringing a ton of 00 Buck back. I think he could have bought it at home cheaper.
Link Posted: 3/6/2005 4:14:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By callgood:

Originally Posted By CB1:
As a airline employee, traveling with a gun is a snap.

A lockable case is needed.
declare the gun with the ticket counter agent.
take the gun to the TSA counter for inspection.
wait for the all clear from the TSA
proceed to your gate.

SNAP!

Ammo: you are allowed 11lbs of ammo in the original case in your check baggage. you MUST declair the ammo with the ticket counter agent.

SNAP!

enjoy your flight, <ahem>



That's the drill. When I flew to my dad's in Texas for pheasant hunting, I used an www.icc-case.com case- great product and super support. When he passed away, I retreived an old LC Smith in a POS plastic case- only positive feature was that it LOCKED. This was not long after 9/11 when they still had troops in the airports (no mags in their AR's). Didn't have any problems then, so it should be smoother now. Just don't pack a nail file. And watch that ammo weight. My dumass younger bro dropped $75.00 in excess baggage fees bringing a ton of 00 Buck back. I think he could have bought it at home cheaper.



that happened to me once, also. too much ammo on departure causing heavy baggage fees...didn't feel like taking some of it back to the car. well over the maximum weight. until i discovered ups.....

since my loaded magazines are three to an ammo pouch, looks like i am all set. btw, i don't see where you have to declare ammunition; only have to verbally declare firearms. sometimes they ask me "do you have ammo" and i say yes and they ask how much and i tell them estimate and add that it is secured per the rules, it ends there. this is at the counter. sometimes they never ask at all and i don't volunteer. this is with swa whom are overly friendly.

after everything goes over to tsa where you stand by and watch, they usually open and go thru everything.
Link Posted: 3/6/2005 5:21:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/6/2005 5:22:58 PM EST by CB1]

Originally Posted By kensteele:

Originally Posted By callgood:

Originally Posted By CB1:
As a airline employee, traveling with a gun is a snap.

A lockable case is needed.
declare the gun with the ticket counter agent.
take the gun to the TSA counter for inspection.
wait for the all clear from the TSA
proceed to your gate.

SNAP!

Ammo: you are allowed 11lbs of ammo in the original case in your check baggage. you MUST declair the ammo with the ticket counter agent.

SNAP!

enjoy your flight, <ahem>



That's the drill. When I flew to my dad's in Texas for pheasant hunting, I used an www.icc-case.com case- great product and super support. When he passed away, I retreived an old LC Smith in a POS plastic case- only positive feature was that it LOCKED. This was not long after 9/11 when they still had troops in the airports (no mags in their AR's). Didn't have any problems then, so it should be smoother now. Just don't pack a nail file. And watch that ammo weight. My dumass younger bro dropped $75.00 in excess baggage fees bringing a ton of 00 Buck back. I think he could have bought it at home cheaper.



that happened to me once, also. too much ammo on departure causing heavy baggage fees...didn't feel like taking some of it back to the car. well over the maximum weight. until i discovered ups.....

since my loaded magazines are three to an ammo pouch, looks like i am all set. btw, i don't see where you have to declare ammunition; only have to verbally declare firearms. sometimes they ask me "do you have ammo" and i say yes and they ask how much and i tell them estimate and add that it is secured per the rules, it ends there. this is at the counter. sometimes they never ask at all and i don't volunteer. this is with swa whom are overly friendly.

after everything goes over to tsa where you stand by and watch, they usually open and go thru everything.



Dude!
As a Airline Employee I STRONGLY recommend you declare your ammunition! If something happens YOUR TOAST!!! Subject to major fines or more. I don't care what SWA does, they have their head up their ass if they are not asking you. It is in the IATA Dangerous Good Regulations that any hazardous material be declared. I have been doing this for over 16 years and that has ALWAYS been the rule. Not to mention I was just re-certified on my HAZMAT training this past friday.
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