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Posted: 1/5/2003 4:25:47 PM EST
Has anyone ever tried making an AR upper in .38 Super or, even better, 9x23? Seems like this would be an outstanding carbine round.
Link Posted: 1/5/2003 5:05:03 PM EST
Actually, I've been researching how to do one for some time. The problem isn't the upper, it is magazines. The 38 Super/9x23 are long rounds. Not many mags out there can fit these two rounds AND fit inside the AR mag well. You might ask why hasn't someone done one? Easy, demand... or the lack of demand. I like the 38 Super round. Odds are others do to, but the cost of making an upper is quite high. There are a few people around here on AR15 that have stated they want to make a 7.62x25 upper. That round is just as long (if not longer) as the 38 Super/9x23....
Link Posted: 1/6/2003 5:25:19 PM EST
You might be able to use a Caspian 38 super hicap mag and make up some sort of a mag adapter for it. My STI mag is really tight in the mag well...something to think about.
Link Posted: 1/7/2003 4:31:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2003 4:22:33 AM EST by SBR7_11]
9x21 may be better choice with the mag limitations. Appears you can get maybe 100 more fps with std loads according to the VV loading guide at Lapua.com. Not sure about ready access to brass, I have about 277 pieces that were give to me from an RO that had worked a National. Most is "CP +P+", I heard Winchester made the brass for CP.. Do not know if they still around. Starline may have brass.
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 6:11:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By Kaliburz: Actually, I've been researching how to do one for some time. The problem isn't the upper, it is magazines. The 38 Super/9x23 are long rounds. Not many mags out there can fit these two rounds AND fit inside the AR mag well.
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The loaded length of the 38 Super and 9x23 is listed as 1.28" and 1.25" respectively. I have a standard 9mm Sten Mag here that will accept loaded rounds of 1.23" overall length, so the mag issue may possibly be resolved by chosing a JHP style bullet and seating appropriately.
There are a few people around here on AR15 that have stated they want to make a 7.62x25 upper. That round is just as long (if not longer) as the 38 Super/9x23....
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Certainly is, overall length is 1.39". But I think I need not say more [;)] Marty ter Weeme Teppo Jutsu LLC
Link Posted: 1/8/2003 10:53:28 PM EST
Here are some caliber options for you wildcatters [url]http://www.ar15barrels.com/calibers.shtml[/url]
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 8:05:18 AM EST
It looks like to me that the sten mag could be pretty easily modified to accept longer rounds by reducing or eliminating the groove at the back. I think a 9X23 would really be a neat setup.
Link Posted: 1/9/2003 7:44:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/9/2003 7:53:16 PM EST by Kaliburz]
Originally Posted By cfbigdaddy: It looks like to me that the sten mag could be pretty easily modified to accept longer rounds by reducing or eliminating the groove at the back. I think a 9X23 would really be a neat setup.
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Actually, there is a version which it was done. The ridge was removed so that 7.62x25 rounds could be loaded. I have never found any 7.62x25 converted mags, but I have a pic of one. The barrels are around.... so the mags must be too... just hard to find. Edit- I've tried searching for them. No luck. I guess someday I will. I suppose that I could have a few Sten mags modified, but I'm not quite sure how that would be done. The outer jacket has to be removed to get to the inside in order to mill the ridge out.
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 4:26:02 PM EST
Well the Sten mag is a straight mag, what about removing the base plate and using a narrow but long file?
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 7:05:42 PM EST
Converting the Sten mag could be easier than you think: Mill out the depression in the back, weld a new "back plate" on the entire mag, with the appropriate cut out for the latch in the Sten or the SOCOM block. It still works in the Sten, and now can hold the longer rounds. Considering there has been at least one UZI in 7.62x25 ... I checked that mag, the only way that conversion worked was by using a round with shorted COL (using the HP/XTP bullet). Another option are the official 7.62x25 mags and making a mag block for those. They will hold the 9x23 without a problem. Last but not least, the m-1 carbine magazine will hold these rounds with room to spare. The carbine has been offered in 9mm Win Mag, so the AR could work as well. For the 50AE, a spacer is installed in the standard AR mag and a new follower made. Why not something similar for the 9mm Win Mag? Just some idle thoughts M
Link Posted: 1/10/2003 7:52:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/10/2003 8:44:31 PM EST by Kaliburz]
I'm thinking of using a PPS43 mag. I have an idea I'm RnD-ing right now. Looks promising. But it's that little rim that might not feed well in a double stack/double feed mag....
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 5:46:17 AM EST
Use the new brass that the IPSC guys use, there is no rim.
Link Posted: 1/11/2003 6:30:21 AM EST
Since the dimensions of .38 Super 1911s are the same as .45s, what about using a .45 mag block, custom bolt/feed ramp, and Grease Gun mags?
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