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Posted: 9/15/2009 5:16:48 PM EST
I was watching Guns & Ammo TV today they were comparing ARs to FNH's new SCAR Rifle..during the show they said AR barrel life was only 6000 rounds! 6000 rounds, that's all?!?
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 5:23:43 PM EST
I read the same thing in a 'AR' magazine with a feature on Milspec and what it means...

The author stated that "M4's are rated to last 6000-8000 rounds as are most AR's"
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 5:29:40 PM EST
it's a function of barrel material (i.e. chrome-lined, chrome moly, ss), type of fire (i.e. semi auto, full auto) and ammo, but a chrome-lined barrel shooting semi-auto without dumping hundreds of mags consecutively and shooting copper jacketed ammo should last way longer than 6000rds.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 5:32:43 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 5:32:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By Captains1911:
it's a function of barrel material (i.e. chrome-lined, chrome moly, ss), type of fire (i.e. semi auto, full auto) and ammo, but a chrome-lined barrel shooting semi-auto without dumping hundreds of mags consecutively and shooting copper jacketed ammo should last way longer than 6000rds.


I would agree
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 5:34:36 PM EST
50,000+ semi-auto chrome lined.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 5:34:58 PM EST
Originally Posted By Maximum1:
I was watching Guns & Ammo TV today they were comparing ARs to FNH's new SCAR Rifle..during the show they said AR barrel life was only 6000 rounds! 6000 rounds, that's all?!?


maybe in full Auto mode .Someone told me the Military re rifles their barrels at 6000rds
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 5:42:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By badazzar15:
6000 rounds isn't shit for a good barrel.


lol. this is my favorite post of the day.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 5:45:33 PM EST
If you had a barrel with 6001 rounds through it, by all means send it to me. I'll properly dispose of it.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 5:53:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By badazzar15:
6000 rounds isn't shit for a good barrel.


1000 is too much for some, or are we talking about different things?
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 5:58:38 PM EST
How do I raise that b.s. flag? I can't find it...
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 6:07:23 PM EST
Originally Posted By lilpayne:
How do I raise that b.s. flag? I can't find it...


Link Posted: 9/15/2009 6:34:19 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 6:41:58 PM EST
Badazzar15 get Spikes to send me out a new upper and ill be glad to test one out for ya. Ill be waiting.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 7:23:34 PM EST
um...

so what is the avg. barrel life of say 4140, 4150, ss410, ss416, LW50...etc how much life does things like chrome lining and CHF add?
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 7:25:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By cray6031:
Badazzar15 get Spikes to send me out a new upper and ill be glad to test one out for ya. Ill be waiting.


just send me 6000 rds and i will use my own upper !
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 7:42:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By ziarifleman:
Originally Posted By badazzar15:
6000 rounds isn't shit for a good barrel.


1000 is too much for some, or are we talking about different things?


Good point^
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 7:43:45 PM EST
I've got over 6000 through mine......it's not the barrel that's going it's my eye sight....
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 7:53:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By nec3394:
I've got over 6000 through mine......it's not the barrel that's going it's my eye sight....


Agreed!

My 13 year old son is out shooting me more and more often...Maybe he's better at compensating for a worn barrel? Yeah, that's it!
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 8:18:51 PM EST
At 6000 rounds there will be significant throat erosion, whether or not it effects accuracy, I don't know.
I have a 5000 round barrel and the throat gauge definitely goes in a lot farther than in a new barrel.

Even if the life of a barrel is 6000 rounds, that's $2400 worth of today's ammo prices to shoot it out. At that point the cost of a new barrel is pretty marginal.
Link Posted: 9/15/2009 9:51:27 PM EST
As long as my barrel is under 4 moa, it's not shot out yet. I should be able to shoot most barrels well into 10,000 rounds.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 12:07:08 AM EST
there're a lot of Garands and M14 out there that have been used&abused and still shoot great.
I wouldnt worry about barrel life.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 12:14:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 12:17:13 AM EST by 87GN]
A function of heat.

In a Crane study, their 10.3" barrels were essentially all shot out - unsafe headspace or too much gas port erosion - between 6k and 8k. Those guns were fired for hundreds of rounds on full auto between cooldown periods.

Does that mean your carbine barrel is useless at 6k, given a much more relaxed firing schedule?

Hell no.

If you're trying to shoot cloverleafs, yeah, you'll have already swapped barrels.

But if you're trying to do that, it's much better to simply buy a good bolt action rifle and a scope to go with it, and save yourself a bundle of money over a similarly equipped AR-15.

The military builds "accurate" AR type weapons because they don't want a Designated Marksman to stand out and get shot first.

That is not a concern for most folks in the US, even those valiantly preparing for SHTF.

edit: And in the "dust tests", EVERY barrel of EVERY weapon tested had unsafe headspace at 6000 rounds. SCAR, 416, XM8, M4.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 4:56:14 AM EST
Originally Posted By 87GN:

And in the "dust tests", EVERY barrel of EVERY weapon tested had unsafe headspace at 6000 rounds. SCAR, 416, XM8, M4.



So there is no hope...have new barrels in the budget or have a bunch of safe queens in the safe.

Link Posted: 9/16/2009 6:55:18 AM EST
I have like20k through a shitty olympic barrel of mine and it'll still shoot about 3 MOA. My Noveske is brandnew but I think I'll get twice that life out of it, atleast.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 7:30:26 AM EST
Search out a test 10,0000 thru a Colt AR in like 2 days. Ammo used was PMC. I think G&A did the test, it was a few years ago.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 8:23:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 8:24:49 AM EST by vaughn4380]
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
Search out a test 10,0000 thru a Colt AR in like 2 days. Ammo used was PMC. I think G&A did the test, it was a few years ago.


Yep, and the throat did erode before 10,000 rds and it did effect accuracy. I remember that article.

ETA: IIRC, accuracy was also restored when a different brand of ammo was used, something to do with the throat being worn by the PMC cases and not by a different brand.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 8:50:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By vaughn4380:
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
Search out a test 10,0000 thru a Colt AR in like 2 days. Ammo used was PMC. I think G&A did the test, it was a few years ago.


Yep, and the throat did erode before 10,000 rds and it did effect accuracy. I remember that article.

ETA: IIRC, accuracy was also restored when a different brand of ammo was used, something to do with the throat being worn by the PMC cases and not by a different brand.


How would that work? What was the 'different brand'?
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 12:45:19 PM EST
The guy that I bought my Stag from said the barrel should be good for around 40,000 rounds as long as I do not do a lot of mag dumps or bump firing. Of course that was a sales persons estimate.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 12:51:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By ftldrben:
Originally Posted By vaughn4380:
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
Search out a test 10,0000 thru a Colt AR in like 2 days. Ammo used was PMC. I think G&A did the test, it was a few years ago.


Yep, and the throat did erode before 10,000 rds and it did effect accuracy. I remember that article.

ETA: IIRC, accuracy was also restored when a different brand of ammo was used, something to do with the throat being worn by the PMC cases and not by a different brand.


How would that work? What was the 'different brand'?


the other ammo was seated different OAL so accuracy was restored.
I think the different brand was fed GM.

Accuracy for the AR was Still good for MOM.

Link Posted: 9/16/2009 12:58:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/16/2009 12:59:58 PM EST by Gregory_K]
Found it sort of

I think from that time frame the colts were ncl
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 1:09:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
Found it sort of

I think from that time frame the colts were ncl


That's it, only I remember it being much more legible .
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 1:10:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By vaughn4380:
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
Found it sort of

I think from that time frame the colts were ncl


That's it, only I remember it being much more legible .


Same Art on the Archive
this one reads better
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 1:22:21 PM EST
I rebarrel when accuracy starts to fall off. Usually about 5,000 round for a chrome lined Brl.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 1:25:18 PM EST
That barrel shot a 0.79 5 shot group at 100 yards at the 9,000 round mark.

Link Posted: 9/16/2009 2:24:29 PM EST
I think 6,000 rounds is what the Army decided was the best point to change out barrels after extensive abuse-testing. I'm sure most of the barrels they change out would be perfectly fine for another 6,000+ rounds of plinking.

What I can't figure out is how they know when a barrel has fired 6,000 rounds because the armorers don't keep a round count for the barrels. They have no idea how many rounds a given barrel has fired. I am guessing there is some "average" amount of time it takes a barrel to reach 6,000 rounds.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 2:57:20 PM EST
The Army changes out the barrels when they fail throat erosion, straightness, or headspace.
How many rounds through a barrel before its changed? F if I know.
Link Posted: 9/16/2009 3:08:11 PM EST
Yeah...they come through (they being civilian contractors) once a year and gauge all the weapons in your armory. Those that fail get tagged and put in the shop for repairs. Whatever that may end up being.

I know for my SAW one year I had everything inside it rebuilt. Receiver failed second year I had it. It was an original Fabrique Nationale (circa 1989 or so I think), though...so by 2004 it was needing to be replaced ;)
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 1:43:19 AM EST
i wish i had enough ammo to shoot my barrel out! Take the price of all the ammo it would take me to shoot out my barrel (many thousands of rounds) and compare it to a barrel....

but i dont. only 10K rounds down range and no problem on my 14.5 inch, still shoots like when i first got it
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 4:02:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By tnolley:
I think 6,000 rounds is what the Army decided was the best point to change out barrels after extensive abuse-testing. I'm sure most of the barrels they change out would be perfectly fine for another 6,000+ rounds of plinking.

What I can't figure out is how they know when a barrel has fired 6,000 rounds because the armorers don't keep a round count for the barrels. They have no idea how many rounds a given barrel has fired. I am guessing there is some "average" amount of time it takes a barrel to reach 6,000 rounds.


You are right.We only change barrels when they fail our gauge tests.Whether it be headspace or erosion.We have no idea how many rounds have been fired through weapons that come to the shop.
Link Posted: 9/17/2009 4:03:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By StevenH:
I rebarrel when accuracy starts to fall off. Usually about 5,000 round for a chrome lined Brl.


Seems a little low to me. But I don't use CL barrels. This is the real key. If you see the accuracy fall off your ability, it's time to re-barrel or accept degrading accuracy.

Some good barrels will be going South after 1K . Generally not something shot in an AR upper. 220 swift, 264 Win., 30-378 WM etc.
458

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