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Posted: 4/6/2006 6:05:09 PM EDT
It's seems that when you read the stories of people who had to use a firearm in defense of there homes the weapons that are used are either handguns, shotguns, hunting rifles, etc.

I'm sure there are other weapons that could be listed but my question is this, has their been that many Documented home intrusions that the home owner used an AR style weapon in defense of self/family. I realize that the precentage of AR's in ownership in comparison to all other firearms in this country is somewhat smaller so overall I woundn't expect the numbers to be that high.

Taking in to account that every situation in a home invasion is going to be unique and one should use the weapon that you train with and are most familiar with, I find myself going to my handgun should a situation ever happen. This is based on the fact that I'll be grabbing the pistol and light, which is at my side and assessing the situation as it unfolds. Inside the home I'm more comfortable moving through the house with a handgun/light set-up.

So do any folks here train with your AR in the event that the worst takes place and you need to defend you and your loved ones in your home? Have you found it easier to move through your house with your AR than with a handgun or other weapon?

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:11:43 PM EDT


Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:19:27 PM EDT
BushmasterGuy77, so you perfer hand-to hand combat.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:24:32 PM EDT
I think he means search function.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:33:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By neonnoodle:
BushmasterGuy77, so you perfer hand-to hand combat.



Yes, Nothing like a good blade to kill off hordes of zombies.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:35:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 6:36:16 PM EDT by BushmasterGuy77]
Here are the two weapons I prefer, but lets not this take off into a "no no, the shotgun is better!" vs "no no the pistol is better" vs... well that is how is it usually goes.



Nathan
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:41:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 6:46:47 PM EDT by neonnoodle]
It was meant in reference to the "beating the dead horse" picture in your post. No personal insult was directed at you, hence the wink.

The main question I was asking got lost in context. It was " has there been many Documented home intrusions that the home owner used an AR style weapon in defense of self/family".
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:45:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By neonnoodle:
It was meant in reference to the "beating the dead horse" picture in your post. No personal insult was directed at you, hence the wink.



Yeah I know man, I know whatcha meant. I mean "beating a dead horse" as I have seen before threads such as this turning into a pissing contest on which is better. I stand by the Bushy and HK in the pic above but others will Say "only shotgun for home defense" or "only pistol for home defense" but the way I look at it is Use what You want. I am going to stick to my guns, literally. Search can be your friend

Nathan
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:47:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 6:48:54 PM EDT by SmallChange]
I know this has been beat to death, but I seldom take part in the discussions so I'll chime in to this one.

I prefer the AR for home defense over a shotgun or a pistol. Nevertheless, if I get up at night to investigate some vague, unlikely threat I generally grab my pistol because it is always close, accessible, and at the ready. I don't grab my rifle for every unusual sound I hear.

If there is a more identifiable threat (i.e. visual contact with a prowler, a clearly idendifiable threatening noise such as breaking glass, zombie uprising, etc.) I will secure a rifle before investigating the threat.

I suspect most defensive confrontations occur as a result of the first scenario.

That's my .02.

ETA: I'm not aware of stats for AR's used in defensive situations, but I'd love to see them.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 6:49:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SmallChange:
I know this has been beat to death, but I seldom take part in the discussions so I'll chime in to this one.

I prefer the AR for home defense over a shotgun or a pistol. Nevertheless, if I get up at night to investigate some vague, unlikely threat I generally grab my pistol because it is always close, accessible, and at the ready. I don't grab my rifle for every unusual sound I hear.

If there is a more identifiable threat (i.e. visual contact with a prowler, a clearly idendifiable threatening noise such as breaking glass, zombie uprising, etc.) I will secure a rifle before investigating the threat.

I suspect most defensive confrontations occur as a result of the first scenario.

That's my .02.



+1

I'll grab the pistol, and if I am being overrun by zombies I'll just "Fight my way back to my rifle" .

Nathan
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:21:13 PM EDT
what ever is easiest to access at the point, which honestly is my pistol at most times
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:30:39 PM EDT
Best home defense weapon: a loaded brain and a plan of action (hopefully including a cell phone and a rehearsed escape plan for your family).

As far as a tool of choice, in the event of badguys, use whatever is close and you think could be effective. If you don't happen to have a loaded AR in every room (as I'm sure some here do), a pistol, shotgun, baseball bat, 9-iron, iron skillet, or pointy stick may have to do. Having the pizza delivery guy face the business end of a weapon when you kick open the door (not that he'd see it past the 1-zillion candlepower retinaburner clamped to it) might be prudent to some, but my guess is the best that could happen would be that he doesn't worry so much about the "30 mins or it's free" next time.

That being said, it's always handy to have a loaded gun of some type somewhere you can get to it in a hurry. Near the bed is nice, in a ziploc baggie in the toilet resevoir is probably a bit much, but hey, it's your house (btw it can interfere with a good flush, which while it may be environmentally friendly water-saving wise is a definite no-no in my opinion).

*CRASH*
zzzz... OMG WTF IS THAT?
<< sees guy coming in through the broken patio door >>
What was the combination for that safe again, honey?

Dude, time out while I dig for some TAP, this 55gr FMJ just won't do. Fuck, where's my LULA?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:51:16 PM EDT


*CRASH*
zzzz... OMG WTF IS THAT?
<< sees guy coming in through the broken patio door >>
What was the combination for that safe again, honey?

Dude, time out while I dig for some TAP, this 55gr FMJ just won't do. Fuck, where's my LULA?





Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:44:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
Best home defense weapon: a loaded brain and a plan of action (hopefully including a cell phone and a rehearsed escape plan for your family).

As far as a tool of choice, in the event of badguys, use whatever is close and you think could be effective. If you don't happen to have a loaded AR in every room (as I'm sure some here do), a pistol, shotgun, baseball bat, 9-iron, iron skillet, or pointy stick may have to do. Having the pizza delivery guy face the business end of a weapon when you kick open the door (not that he'd see it past the 1-zillion candlepower retinaburner clamped to it) might be prudent to some, but my guess is the best that could happen would be that he doesn't worry so much about the "30 mins or it's free" next time.

That being said, it's always handy to have a loaded gun of some type somewhere you can get to it in a hurry. Near the bed is nice, in a ziploc baggie in the toilet resevoir is probably a bit much, but hey, it's your house (btw it can interfere with a good flush, which while it may be environmentally friendly water-saving wise is a definite no-no in my opinion).

*CRASH*
zzzz... OMG WTF IS THAT?
<< sees guy coming in through the broken patio door >>
What was the combination for that safe again, honey?

Dude, time out while I dig for some TAP, this 55gr FMJ just won't do. Fuck, where's my LULA?




Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:54:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 8:55:36 PM EDT by Ryan1021]
I use a shotgun, just rackin the slide will cause the bad guy to automatically release his bowels and passout. But seriously I would rely on my G21 and if needed I would use it to fight my way to my Bushy M4.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 8:57:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 8:58:42 PM EDT by DK-Prof]
This is what I PLAN on using (would usually have a surefire attached to it as well). Since things don't always go according to plan, various handguns would be my second choice.



Less velocity, shorter fragmentation range (but still plenty for indoor ranges), 30 rounds available without reloading and easily manoeuverable inside the house. Although, I certainly don't PLAN on running around the house, or doing any "clearing".


I think you are correct that there are few instances of AR's used for home defense. Not only, as you point out because AR's are less numorous, but also because - since it is a relatively expensive firearm, the people who can afford an AR might be less likely to live in the kind of neighborhood where home invasions happen, or where they need to defend themselves with a firearm inside their own house.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:07:45 PM EDT
I love shooting paper with the ar. and ive been slightly addicted to this website for a while, but home defence? Home defence is cool, ar's are cool but with the current laws i will take my chances with a mag light or hand to hand before i will ever...ever fire any rounds off of my bushy. With that being said Im slightly intoxicated right now, but I would rather take my chances, than go into court for anything firearm related.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:16:32 PM EDT
"Have you found it easier to move through your house with your AR than with a handgun or other weapon?"

Often the "moving through the house" can get you killed regardless of weapon.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:23:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Papppy:
I love shooting paper with the ar. and ive been slightly addicted to this website for a while, but home defence? Home defence is cool, ar's are cool but with the current laws i will take my chances with a mag light or hand to hand before i will ever...ever fire any rounds off of my bushy. With that being said Im slightly intoxicated right now, but I would rather take my chances, than go into court for anything firearm related.



A good shoot is a good shoot regardless of the weapon used.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:31:34 PM EDT
I personally would grab my shotgun just because once, in my younger, dumber days, I was were I shouldn't be and heard that sound - you know that sound - of someone racking a shotgun. I DAMN NEAR PISSED MY PANTS! I have never forgot what that sound. We were gone the minute we heard it.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:00:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Scot45:
I personally would grab my shotgun just because once, in my younger, dumber days, I was were I shouldn't be and heard that sound - you know that sound - of someone racking a shotgun. I DAMN NEAR PISSED MY PANTS! I have never forgot what that sound. We were gone the minute we heard it.



Not to be rude but...*sigh*
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:00:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Scot45:
I personally would grab my shotgun just because once, in my younger, dumber days, I was were I shouldn't be and heard that sound - you know that sound - of someone racking a shotgun. I DAMN NEAR PISSED MY PANTS! I have never forgot what that sound. We were gone the minute we heard it.



i hope you're not serious. Sounds don't scare away criminals man
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:01:29 PM EDT

A good shoot is a good shoot regardless of the weapon used.

True, but wouldent you love having that Bsterd sue your family? I will take my chances with unloaded mags and mag lights hoping it never becomes an issue. Dont let them kid you, even the republicans in D.C hate assault rifles (thank god they need to stay within party lines). Because the AR is one of the most destructive rifles for life(5.56 chest chest head). and property (god bless it). And im not as convinced S will H the F im my little courner of the world. So zombies be advised, my mags are empty.....and if they were full not to wory... it would only be my beloved wolf .223 poylemer coated if i did fill them.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:05:04 PM EDT
With that being said I love this website, and all y'all are alright in my book no matter what opinion you have, hold on Fk that, y'all are welcome in my house, AR muzzles at the floor of course, but beers a flowing
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:17:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Papppy:

A good shoot is a good shoot regardless of the weapon used.


True, but wouldent you love having that Bsterd sue your family? I will take my chances with unloaded mags and mag lights hoping it never becomes an issue. Dont let them kid you, even the republicans in D.C hate assault rifles (thank god they need to stay within party lines). Because the AR is one of the most destructive rifles for life(5.56 chest chest head). and property (god bless it). And im not as convinced S will H the F im my little courner of the world. So zombies be advised, my mags are empty.....and if they were full not to wory... it would only be my beloved wolf .223 poylemer coated if i did fill them.



Hard to sue me if he is dead.
When the cops come, you say "I was in fear for my life. I don't want to say anything further until I speak with my legal council."

Are you saying your weapons and mags are all unloaded?
Why?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:20:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 10:28:47 PM EDT by Papppy]
PS DK-Prof's AR is a thing of beauty. Son of a B That is one fine looking machine of destruction. Even the crazy compos. mag looks right at home on that weapon. And dont mess with me............does her selector go past 90degrees guess not but that would be cool
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:23:22 PM EDT
Are you saying your weapons and mags are all unloaded?
Why?

Yeah, pretty much hate unloading and reloading to go to the range. As far as i know in MI rounds cant be in a mag for transport.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:24:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 10:24:57 PM EDT by Papppy]
.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:26:39 PM EDT
My AR is too long.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 10:29:31 PM EDT
too long?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 11:08:53 PM EDT
Have a 24" barrel would be a little tough negotiating through hallways and such. would be easier with my pistol. Now if I was lucky enough to see the attacking zombies a few hundred out.....
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 11:30:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/6/2006 11:46:41 PM EDT by neonnoodle]
__________________________________________________________________________________
Originally posted by neonnoodle:
"Have you found it easier to move through your house with your AR than with a handgun or other weapon?"
__________________________________________________________________________________

______________________________________________________________________
Originally posted by pigmy:
Often the "moving through the house" can get you killed regardless of weapon.
______________________________________________________________________

Sometimes moving through the house is the best decision one can make. Each person has to make their own call as to what's the best choice to overcome the current situation dealt to them. To me it depends on past training, layout of home, # of BG's, entry points, weapons used, etc, etc.

My reference was with the mindset to always keep every option open and give me hopefully the upper hand where by being prepared I'm a step ahead of the situation. Heck there could be a 1000 different ways a home invasion goes down. If I need to stay put to protect loved ones that's what I'll do. If movement is called for, well I want to get to the safest point of cover I can reach. If the sitauation ever arises I want to put the odds in my favor.

In my original post the main question was is anyone aware of an AR ever been used in a home defense situation? I personally never heard of it but that doesn't mean it's never transpired.

DK-Prof : I agree and nice AR.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:30:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:42:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 12:42:46 PM EDT by thedoctors308]

Originally Posted By ss2nv:
My home defense tools...
img.photobucket.com/albums/v388/ss2nv/DSC00743.jpg
img.photobucket.com/albums/v388/ss2nv/DSC00745a.jpg
Which one I grab depends on the situation.



Very nice!
Might want to get a BUIS on that AR though.

ETA: What loads are you using in the USP and the AR?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:53:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Papppy:

A good shoot is a good shoot regardless of the weapon used.

True, but wouldent you love having that Bsterd sue your family? I will take my chances with unloaded mags and mag lights hoping it never becomes an issue. Dont let them kid you, even the republicans in D.C hate assault rifles (thank god they need to stay within party lines). Because the AR is one of the most destructive rifles for life(5.56 chest chest head). and property (god bless it). And im not as convinced S will H the F im my little courner of the world. So zombies be advised, my mags are empty.....and if they were full not to wory... it would only be my beloved wolf .223 poylemer coated if i did fill them.



Come on down to sunny Fla. If you encounter a BG in your home, Florida law presumes that:

1. He is there with the intent of committing a violent felony.
2. You are in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury.

So you are free to use deadly force.

If the bad guy survives, he cannot recover against you in a civil suit if he is convicted of the B&E, and he cannot even bring suit until his criminal case is adjudicated.

If he does sue you, when he loses he has to pay your court costs. If he has a lawyer, that lawyer has to cover your court costs as well.

Matt
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:53:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 12:58:07 PM EDT by ss2nv]
"Very nice!
Might want to get a BUIS on that AR though.
ETA: What loads are you using in the USP and the AR?"

180 grn Ranger SXTs in the USPc .40 and XM193 in the RRA Tac Car. I just recently bought the EOTech, so a rear BUIS is definately in order. I just don't know which one yet.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:58:01 PM EDT
This thread has gone off topic a bit, let's get more specific: How many cases of a home owner, or renter or lessee, using an AR15 type rifle for defense of home with desert tan furniture on the rifle?

Bill with a thirst for knowledge
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 3:12:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BushmasterGuy77:

Originally Posted By SmallChange:
I know this has been beat to death, but I seldom take part in the discussions so I'll chime in to this one.

I prefer the AR for home defense over a shotgun or a pistol. Nevertheless, if I get up at night to investigate some vague, unlikely threat I generally grab my pistol because it is always close, accessible, and at the ready. I don't grab my rifle for every unusual sound I hear.

If there is a more identifiable threat (i.e. visual contact with a prowler, a clearly idendifiable threatening noise such as breaking glass, zombie uprising, etc.) I will secure a rifle before investigating the threat.

I suspect most defensive confrontations occur as a result of the first scenario.

That's my .02.



+1

I'll grab the pistol, and if I am being overrun by zombies I'll just "Fight my way back to my rifle" .

Nathan



+1 on both points
Tex78
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 4:41:11 PM EDT

Come on down to sunny Fla. If you encounter a BG in your home, Florida law presumes that:

1. He is there with the intent of committing a violent felony.
2. You are in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury.

So you are free to use deadly force.

If the bad guy survives, he cannot recover against you in a civil suit if he is convicted of the B&E, and he cannot even bring suit until his criminal case is adjudicated.

If he does sue you, when he loses he has to pay your court costs. If he has a lawyer, that lawyer has to cover your court costs as well.

Matt



Sounds like a place I'd like to move to, where the homeowner has a right to defend himself...some dems in congress will try to convince you that burgulars are in your house with good intentions
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 4:52:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Papppy:
PS DK-Prof's AR is a thing of beauty. Son of a B That is one fine looking machine of destruction. Even the crazy compos. mag looks right at home on that weapon. And dont mess with me............does her selector go past 90degrees guess not but that would be cool



Thanks. I like it a lot.

It's purely a semi-auto rifle. I really cannot justify the money for a registered lower or RDIAS at this time - plus I may move to another state in a year or two, and I don't know if whatever state I move to will allow full-auto. But, if I stay in Missouri beyond the next two years, then I'll definitely buy some full-auto goodness.


But, for home defense, I'm not sure there's much advatage to full-auto - and I could imagine some downsides - so I don't think it really makes much of a difference to me. (In fact, in the military, I largely found full-auto to be pretty useless on a rifle).
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 5:26:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 5:27:34 PM EDT by Mazeman]
I'm sure the AR is effective.

But if you ever did need to use it on a BG, your odds of losing in civil court (when the family of the deceased sues you), just went through the roof.

For in-home defense, use a handgun or shotgun. You'll appear more "sane" to a jury.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 5:32:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Papppy:

A good shoot is a good shoot regardless of the weapon used.

True, but wouldent you love having that Bsterd sue your family? I will take my chances with unloaded mags and mag lights hoping it never becomes an issue. Dont let them kid you, even the republicans in D.C hate assault rifles (thank god they need to stay within party lines). Because the AR is one of the most destructive rifles for life(5.56 chest chest head). and property (god bless it). And im not as convinced S will H the F im my little courner of the world. So zombies be advised, my mags are empty.....and if they were full not to wory... it would only be my beloved wolf .223 poylemer coated if i did fill them.





Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:19:49 PM EDT
I have been to 2 calls for service where an AR has done the job.... and it did it well.

my home defense is..... shotgun for the wife.... ar and a g21 for me. a phone in the bathroom with a deep cast iron tub....

I am very comfortable with clearing my home. I am trained and trained well. the best tactic is to have a plan in case of a fight... and a plan to getout!

bad news for the badguy who comes to my home.... my wife and I will be fighting for who gets to him first!
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:30:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mazeman:
I'm sure the AR is effective.

But if you ever did need to use it on a BG, your odds of losing in civil court (when the family of the deceased sues you), just went through the roof.

For in-home defense, use a handgun or shotgun. You'll appear more "sane" to a jury.



Feel free to provide ANY evidence of that urban legend.

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:08:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Papppy:

A good shoot is a good shoot regardless of the weapon used.

True, but wouldent you love having that Bsterd sue your family? I will take my chances with unloaded mags and mag lights hoping it never becomes an issue. Dont let them kid you, even the republicans in D.C hate assault rifles (thank god they need to stay within party lines). Because the AR is one of the most destructive rifles for life(5.56 chest chest head). and property (god bless it). And im not as convinced S will H the F im my little courner of the world. So zombies be advised, my mags are empty.....and if they were full not to wory... it would only be my beloved wolf .223 poylemer coated if i did fill them.




Wow, how do you reply to that? Seems like you could do as well and save money with a good airsoft replica.

I would keep your weapon loaded a take your chances in court, assuming you survive the incident. The odvious rule is to never over-react.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 9:36:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Mazeman:
I'm sure the AR is effective.

But if you ever did need to use it on a BG, your odds of losing in civil court (when the family of the deceased sues you), just went through the roof.

For in-home defense, use a handgun or shotgun. You'll appear more "sane" to a jury.



Feel free to provide ANY evidence of that urban legend.




I would like some evidence too!

Here in Louisiana your home is your castle and it is your constitutional right to enact deadly force if you feel threatened in your own home! Unfortunately certain volunteer police officers from New York were not aware of Louisiana laws and unlawfully confiscated guns from law abiding citizens during the Hurricane Katrina aftermath.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 12:10:08 AM EDT
My first choice is what is near by, hopefully it's my 500 magnum:


My second choice is reaching for my M1 and loaded clip, locked in the safe, if given ample time:


Or, if many zombies attack, I need a few more minutes to load several mags, my AR-15:


If given an 2 hour advance notice, and if I need to open a real big can of whoop ass:





Link Posted: 4/8/2006 12:56:36 AM EDT
What about using a M16 on full auto suppressed!?!?!? Is that an ok home defense weapon too?!?!?!

Link Posted: 4/8/2006 12:59:30 AM EDT
On a serious note,


.223/5.56 is not eactly all that great on the thin walls of todays modern house hold. I'd rather not use an AR15 unless I have to. But if shit hits the fan outside of the home you can bet I will have my AR. You should plan on your rounds going through your entire house and your neighbors house if you use your AR15
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 3:36:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC:
On a serious note,


.223/5.56 is not eactly all that great on the thin walls of todays modern house hold. I'd rather not use an AR15 unless I have to. But if shit hits the fan outside of the home you can bet I will have my AR. You should plan on your rounds going through your entire house and your neighbors house if you use your AR15



but what round will not go through the thin walls? 18" shotgun with #8 shot ( i know it will still go through but the pellets are small and don't carry much energy, not sure though compared to a xm193 fragmenting through the wall..) from what i have read after the first wall xm193 starts to fragment and lose a lot of energy as it breaks up. but a 9mm 124gr +P will still be together for some time. i may be wrong as this is not tested by me, but it is what i have read....
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 4:10:12 AM EDT
about 10 years ago I used a light switched, BG ran so fast I did not even get a glimpse. not sure who I was up against. maybe a vampire since he ran when there was light?
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