Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 7/9/2003 7:35:37 AM EDT
Might not be the best forum for this... I am thinking of either a Glock 21, HK USP or a HK Socom. I am leaning towards the Glock as I currently carry a Glock 23. Any recommendations? Thanks...

Link Posted: 7/9/2003 8:18:01 AM EDT
The SOCOM is an incredible weapon. The glock cannot hold a candle to any of the HK pistols. I carry a USP .40C I also have a USP .45 Tactical and access to SOCOM (Get the HK without a doubt. I have shot the Glocks and no comparison) I even have a neighbor who has a Glock and he shot my USP and is dumping the Glock for a USP becasue the Glock shoots like crap, is too boxy, and they break more often. I have first hand knowledge of failures in glocks at one of your favorite Alphabet Agencies (not the rosey BATF) I have seen slides fall off. Never seen that with the H&Ks. Just my opinion and experience. I ALWAYS steer people to the H&K pistols.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 8:36:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2003 8:41:00 AM EDT by SteveinAz]
Like this? Though had my Glock 22 not been stolen, it would be in the picture in lieu of my "crap" 12 year-old, 25,0000 + round Glock 17 that still prints under 3" at 25 meters. [img]http://personal.riverusers.com/~brogers/m15a2_glock17_01.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 9:11:04 AM EDT
I have shot a couple of glocks, and I don't really care for them. I am looking into an HK. Of course you couls wait til the fall to get the ultimate companoin for your AR, the Carbon 15 pistol. Now that would be a great team.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 9:26:31 AM EDT
With my ARF, I prefer a Kimber Custom II. If I don't have that, I like a Springfield XD9 or a S&W 66. If I had to choose between a Glock and a HK, I'd go HK.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 10:40:16 AM EDT
The Kimbers are definately pretty guns and they aupposedly shoot well, but if you want a gun that has been tested beyond anything you could or would ever put your gun through go HK. I have yet to see any other firearm mfg. fire a half load bullet so it gets lodged in the barrel on purpose and then fire a full load to see if it explodes, and have the firearm push both bullets out, only bulging the barrel a bit and still be able to fire it with any remaining accuracy. not to mention the drop tests that they do. I think the Sigs are too heavy and crappy, S&W is coming out with a Glock clone lookalike, but I am not a fan of their Semi pistols. If you want a pretty 1911 looking gun then Kimber is the way to go. Plus I think Kimber guns are used in a bunch of the shooting competitions. They are certainly a nice custom gun, along with the Les Baer. (if that is the type of gun you like)
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 10:43:01 AM EDT
[b]SIG![/b] ...it doesn't matter, pick your caliber and size and you'll have a super reliable, super accurate, bad mutha pistola!
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 10:49:58 AM EDT
What is the difference between the HK SOCOM and the USP ?
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 11:02:42 AM EDT
The SOCOM or Mark23 (Mk23 militry version) is a little larger, has 3 dot sights threaded barrel, O-ring barrel. The USP .45 Tactical is and enhanced tactical version on the USP Fullsize .45 It has a number of features of the Mk23 but a tad smaller. It has the Threaded barrel, O-ring, Target type adjustable sights, adjustable trigger. boricua9mm, 100 times better than a Sig, just ask any Special forces operator, like your friendly neighborhood SEAL. :)
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 11:16:01 AM EDT
On the 45 cal side I have a SW4506 that has been done over by my gunsmith and is great and a Kimber Eclipse II target. I love the way the Eclipse looks. I would like a tatical shtf companion for the AR and so far I will have to check out HK more. My local dealer has a socom in stock so I can check it out.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 11:23:56 AM EDT
I agree with the SIG! Sigs and AR's jus tlook like they belong together! Becides, they are kick ass reliable and easy to clean and maintain. IMHO, nothing beats a SIG!
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 11:23:59 AM EDT
A couple questions for you. You mentioned already that you carry a G23; How would you use the companion gun? Concealed carry, Open carry, part of a three-gun match kit, Hunting backup? I own a G22 and G27, a couple Kimbers, and a few assorted other less combat related pistols. Gun treatment is one of the major considerations that I use when picked one above another when going out. Dirty/Sweaty/Rough/Super Hot (glove compartment in summer) I go glock. I personally don't want to get a $700+ gun smacked around. If you want a competition level gun (and money is no matter) there are some race-gun 45ACPs out there that will smoke nearly any factory gun. From a "fixed firing fixture" (vise) the HK SOCOM "Mk 23 pistols achieved match grade accuracy with an average of 1.4 inches extreme spread in 5-round shot groups at 25 meters with service ammunition" A Strayer Voigt 45 competiton gun had this said about it: "Noted IPSC Grand Master and author Brian Enos has such a gun. He calls it his testbed gun and uses it to check out any new bullet/powder combinations that come along. "Brian's gun shoots 1.5" to 1.75" at 50 yards- with iron sights and Brian shooting prone," Don said. "And it'll do it all day long with hollowpoints, truncated cones, roundnose, you name it."" All that means is if you throw A55loads of money at anything it can be made to shoot consistantly well. All the personal convictions of others (including myself) don't mean squat when it comes to the final question. Do YOU like the gun; feel, weight, size, quality, fitting YOUR needs? (fitting your budget). Ok, my fingers are sore at this point so I will stop rambling. Below are some references. http://www.sviguns.com/articles/ah091999/article.html http://www.streetpro.com/usp/hksocom.html Research before spending money. Opinions are like a55holes: Everybody has one. No one really wants to see it.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 11:40:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By phatmax: A couple questions for you. You mentioned already that you carry a G23; How would you use the companion gun? Concealed carry, Open carry, part of a three-gun match kit, Hunting backup? I own a G22 and G27, a couple Kimbers, and a few assorted other less combat related pistols. Gun treatment is one of the major considerations that I use when picked one above another when going out. Dirty/Sweaty/Rough/Super Hot (glove compartment in summer) I go glock. I personally don't want to get a $700+ gun smacked around. If you want a competition level gun (and money is no matter) there are some race-gun 45ACPs out there that will smoke nearly any factory gun. From a "fixed firing fixture" (vise) the HK SOCOM "Mk 23 pistols achieved match grade accuracy with an average of 1.4 inches extreme spread in 5-round shot groups at 25 meters with service ammunition" A Strayer Voigt 45 competiton gun had this said about it: "Noted IPSC Grand Master and author Brian Enos has such a gun. He calls it his testbed gun and uses it to check out any new bullet/powder combinations that come along. "Brian's gun shoots 1.5" to 1.75" at 50 yards- with iron sights and Brian shooting prone," Don said. "And it'll do it all day long with hollowpoints, truncated cones, roundnose, you name it."" All that means is if you throw A55loads of money at anything it can be made to shoot consistantly well. All the personal convictions of others (including myself) don't mean squat when it comes to the final question. Do YOU like the gun; feel, weight, size, quality, fitting YOUR needs? (fitting your budget). Ok, my fingers are sore at this point so I will stop rambling. Below are some references. http://www.sviguns.com/articles/ah091999/article.html http://www.streetpro.com/usp/hksocom.html Research before spending money. Opinions are like a55holes: Everybody has one. No one really wants to see it.
View Quote
Basicly I am getting together a tactical setup, just because nothing more, Nice short non-nfa AR (meaning 16" barrel), tac vest for the AR mags and some pistol mags, thigh holster for the 45 and mags also on the thigh holster and other leg, camel pack... basicly the deal. I wouldn't be Concealed carry, Open carry, part of a three-gun match kit, Hunting backup. At most maybe a shoot match. I would be training with it. I am looking in to http://www.blackwaterusa.com for some training couses currently. Very few of my firearms are abuse, non are safe queens tho. The FAL and SAR-1 from cai are basicly beaters. Thanks...
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 12:13:08 PM EDT
Let me just tell you anotehr thing from experience. I carry a USP .40C and used to have an issued USP 9. I placed 2nd in a 3 gun tactical match 2 years ago (haven't signed up yet for the next one) and also on a tactical basis one thing that really helped in match and real life tactical situations is the ease in which mag changes are made witht he USP. Now before I get flamed for being biased (which I very well may be, but too many converts thank me when they get their HK to be coincidence) When you hit the mag release (which is AMBIDEXTRIOUS) the mags shoot clear since the release is spring loaded. You do not need to grab it and pull it out, which saves crucial seconds. The mags can take a good beating with no problems. (never had a problem) Just another plus to the HK. If you are ever in the PA area, you are more than welcome to come to the range with me and shoot all of my HKs and see for yourself.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 12:19:18 PM EDT
I'm probably a little older than some here and that is why my sidearm is a Colt Combat Commander .45 ACP. When I was in service that is what I trained on and feel more comfortable with. I use it for my "carry" gun and always carry "cocked and locked", it was how I was trained. However, if I had to choose another it would be the USP in .45. I like the feel and weight of it. I might get flamed but the 1911 is tough to beat.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 12:23:55 PM EDT
The only answers would be an AR pistol or a Thompson Contender in .223. They use the same ammo. The first choice would even use the same parts.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 12:58:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fell-off-the-truck: What is the difference between the HK SOCOM and the USP ?
View Quote
The SOCOM is a .45ACP handgun that is essentially a match USP. Its bigger, its accurized, the barrel is threaded etc. Its not really worth it unless your going to get a suppressor to go with. I would get it as a collectors item though. They market for usually a little under than $3000. [img]http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/pages/civilian/images/mark23_lg.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.hkpro.com/socomusp.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 1:54:40 PM EDT
Glock 26
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 2:55:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 800Mtrs: The SOCOM or Mark23 (Mk23 militry version) is a little larger, has 3 dot sights threaded barrel, O-ring barrel. The USP .45 Tactical is and enhanced tactical version on the USP Fullsize .45 It has a number of features of the Mk23 but a tad smaller. It has the Threaded barrel, O-ring, Target type adjustable sights, adjustable trigger. boricua9mm, 100 times better than a Sig, just ask any Special forces operator, like your friendly neighborhood SEAL. :)
View Quote
100x better? How? Show me a [b]REAL[/b] S.E.A.L. and you've likely shown me a man who carried a P226 not a Mk23! It's no secret that the 226 gets used much more often than the mission-specific MK23. The MK 23 is huge, and clunky. The only thing I can think of that saves its a$$ is the HK logo on the side.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 2:56:40 PM EDT
If you want to go with something that has style accessorize your AR with an HK P7M8. Remember owning a P7 isn't a purchase, it's an adoption and it will get everyones attention. Mine does. I also own a Glock 26 which makes for a great companion, but then again so does my Beretta 92, so many guns, so little time.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 3:25:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/9/2003 3:32:33 PM EDT by Boomholzer]
The HK SOCOM or the Mk23 think and act like a primary weapon. Your looking for a secondary weapon. Most of this thread is just hype. It is a great weapon but, no one here is considering what matters; your intended use. Personally, I would pass on such a large sidearm unless I had some specific use for it as a primary close-range sniping pistol. I recommend you handle one first. In response to the idiot: A Sig P220 in [b]all Stainless[/b] weighs 39.2oz or 2.45lbs Dry, The steel P220 weighs 1.74 pound The Mk23 weighs 42.56oz or [b]2.66lbs[/b] with empty magazine
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 3:31:35 PM EDT
If your looking for a reliable cost effective gun I'd go with the Springfield XD! I have a ported .40cal and a compact 9mm and their both the best for the money, much better than the Glock. If money is no object go with one of the HK's.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 3:38:52 PM EDT
Ever consider a real sidearm? [img]http://www.colt.com/CMCI/images/1991Series_O1991.jpg[/img][:D]
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 3:41:51 PM EDT
boricua9mm is absolutely correct! The Sig Sauer P-226 is the prefered sidearm of our beloved SEALs. 800Mtrs. I can understand your love affair with HK products, but there are other products out there that will fit the bill for an AR companion that will not require a home equity loan to purchase. The MK23 is a fine gun I'm sure, but $2800.00 is way too much to spend on a handgun. I have owned about all of the major player's offerings at one time or another. I hold the Sig Sauer handguns in the highest regard. I have found nothing to be "crappy" with them at all. To each their own!
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 3:44:43 PM EDT
SIG. I wouldn't trade my 9mm 226 for anything. Well, maybe a TA31, but I'd just go out and buy another Sig afterwards! You can't go wrong with a HK either. I carry a USP Compact daily and it's a great handgun. Pick the one that you shoot better. The 226 just looks and feels so right though!
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 3:54:08 PM EDT
I held a HK USP once, and wasn't all that impressed. I couldn't figure out what I would be getting for all that $$$. I personally feel that the name tag gives it the incredible reputation, not the weapon itself. The question is to figure out what is the function of this sidearm: I have a Glock 19 and an M1911A1. If I was to grab something to defend myself, I would go for the 1911. For some reason I find I shoot a lot more accurately with it- maybe the extra inch of sight radius, and the single action hammer. However, If I was lugging around a rifle all day, and simply wanted the a sidearm in case my rifle jammed at a inopportune moment, I would carry the Glock. Very light, big magazine, nothing to hang up on clothing or rfiles on slings swinging about my person, and I have no doubt it will go bang every time I pull the trigger. I am nowhere near as accurate at 25 yards with the Glock, but I hav supreme confidence in its function. Just my two cents, hope this helps you out!
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 5:03:23 PM EDT
If your pistol is to be a tactical tool used for only specific short range tasks and emergency situations (which may be the practical application when you are already carrying a 16" AR) why not consider a revolver? I know it wasn't on your list, but there are several smith revolvers that would fit the bill. I own many pistols, including three glocks which certainly fill the requirement for you, but I'm happy with my S&W 627 and several extra moon clips ready to roll as a backup if concealing is not an issue. Reliability and simplicity is my personal desire in a sidearm when other weapons are being carried. That being said, a Glock 21 is my preference from that list, although, again I'd lean towards the 1911 which several have mentioned here. The Springfield XD is a unbelievably good gun for the money. You won't go wrong with any. -Dan
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 10:25:16 PM EDT
Personal preference is everything...whatever fits in your hand the best and offers a good high grip and low bore alignment makes for a good "instictive shooting" pistol. I personally like Glock pistols owning the model22,23,and 27...simple, reliabele, and tough as a bag of hammers!!
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 1:10:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 1:33:47 AM EDT
My USP nine is the main one that backs up my M4. I also have a USP tactical a USP 40 Compact for CCW, and a P7M13 that just replaced my compact for CCW. My USP 9 has seen Thousands of rounds and it is still perfect. not a single hickup. I replaced a Sig 226 with it. I could just shoot it faster and more accurately.
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 11:41:07 AM EDT
The one and only......[b]1911[/b]!!!!!!
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 11:47:52 AM EDT
Springfield 1911A1 Fully loaded 230gr FMJ, on the thigh in a drop leg holster AND only use in the event/emergency that you have to fight your way back to your M4! [marines]
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 6:10:54 PM EDT
I tried to find the website that has the USP torture test which H&K performs... IT IS UNBELIEVEABLE what this sidearms can sustain. The one thing i can clearly remember is that they lodge a round intentionally into the barrel, and then fire a normal round through it. The USP remains unharmed without any loss in accuracy in the following shots. Try to find the torture test I'm talking about online...You'll be amazed. I sold my Beretta 92FS today so save up for one myself acctually. As for the 1911's, I never cared for them. Never have, never will! I don't care what anyone is gonna say about that.
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 6:48:37 PM EDT
Had the H&K .45 usp. Sold it after I bought a glock 21. Advantages. Double action and Cheaper priced mags. Accuracy was the same. Quality was the same. I personnally found the Glock easier for me to handle. Also have a G30 and two 1911s. .45 is the way to go. Hell, get both guns. My Hand gun for my battle rifle is the G21. Oh Yeh, My main battle rifle is not my ar. It's my M1a.
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 6:50:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2003 4:47:18 PM EDT by tberg]
As long as you like it and it's black (or deeply blued):)Edited to add: Gotta stay with the "EB" theme.
Top Top